patrick.net
An Antidote to Corporate Media
1,261,068 comments by 15,056 users - AmericanKulak, DOGEWontAmountToShit, goofus, Tenpoundbass online now
Visualizing Countries with the Highest Household Wealth
invite response
2018 Aug 31, 11:56am 5,585 views 27 comments
« First « Previous Comments 2 - 27 of 27 Search these comments
2
MisterLefty
2018 Aug 31, 4:28pm
It's the absolute amount, for sure, but also the rate of change. Or, the more you have, the more you want.
3
Strategist
2018 Aug 31, 4:44pm
Strategist
2018 Aug 31, 4:44pm
DASKAA says
They did not include real estate in the numbers. I think they should.
They should also adjust the figures to reflect ...PPP-Purchasing Power Parity.
The wealth for Americans will go even higher compared to the rest of the world if they did that.
Our visualization reveals several key insights about personal wealth accumulation across the OECD. First off, the U.S. clearly dominates the rankings with over $170k on average per household. The other standout on our list, Switzerland, is far behind the U.S. with $128k of accumulated household wealth on average. The rankings then become much tighter further down the list with countries grouped together in the $70-90k range. There are also a few countries in the OECD for obvious political reasons. It is hard to see why Russia should be counted with only $16,657 in disposable income and $2,260 in net financial wealth.
They did not include real estate in the numbers. I think they should.
They should also adjust the figures to reflect ...PPP-Purchasing Power Parity.
The wealth for Americans will go even higher compared to the rest of the world if they did that.
4
Misc
2018 Aug 31, 4:58pm
Most OECD countries have health care as part of their taxes. We for the most part do not. When you subtract out the heath care costs from disposable income, we end up more in line with the middle of the pack. Also, in America the top 1/10 of a percent are extremely rich skewing the results. If you factor in the GINI for the median American we end up again middle of the pack. I also wish they had included real estate in their figures.
5
Strategist
2018 Aug 31, 6:00pm
Strategist
2018 Aug 31, 6:00pm
Misc says
Same goes for college education too. Europeans also work a lot less than us.
Most people have healthcare in this country. The seniors have Medicare, and the poor Medical or equivalent. The copays and deductibles are fucking outrageous.
Overall, I believe we have a much higher standard of living than the rest of the pack. Larger homes, more and better cars, appliances, gadgets, travel.
Most OECD countries have health care as part of their taxes. We for the most part do not. When you subtract out the heath care costs from disposable income, we end up more in line with the middle of the pack. Also, in America the top 1/10 of a percent are extremely rich skewing the results. If you factor in the GINI for the median American we end up again middle of the pack. I also wish they had included real estate in their figures.
Same goes for college education too. Europeans also work a lot less than us.
Most people have healthcare in this country. The seniors have Medicare, and the poor Medical or equivalent. The copays and deductibles are fucking outrageous.
Overall, I believe we have a much higher standard of living than the rest of the pack. Larger homes, more and better cars, appliances, gadgets, travel.
6
Patrick
2018 Aug 31, 6:10pm
Patrick
2018 Aug 31, 6:10pm
DASKAA says
Averages are misleading. The average of your and Bill Gates' personal wealth is a lot. But that doesn't make you rich.
Median wealth would be much more interesting.
each bubble represents average household wealth
Averages are misleading. The average of your and Bill Gates' personal wealth is a lot. But that doesn't make you rich.
Median wealth would be much more interesting.
7
Patrick
2018 Aug 31, 6:12pm
Patrick
2018 Aug 31, 6:12pm
US kinda sucks if you look at the median wealth per adult:
Median total wealth per adult by country above 10,000 $ (November 2017)[1] Country/Territory Median wealth
Iceland $444,999
Switzerland $229,059
Australia $195,417
Luxembourg $167,664
Belgium $161,589
New Zealand $147,593
Norway $130,543
Italy $124,636
Japan $123,724
France $119,720
Singapore $108,850
United Kingdom $102,641
Canada $91,058
Netherlands $94,373
Taiwan $87,257
Ireland $84,592
Israel $78,244
Qatar $71,118
Malta $67,980
South Korea $67,934
Spain $63,369
Finland $57,850
Austria $57,534
United States $55,867
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_per_adult
Median means "half have more than this, half have less".
Summary of the situation is that a few people in America have most of the money. It's very unevenly distributed.
Median total wealth per adult by country above 10,000 $ (November 2017)[1] Country/Territory Median wealth
Iceland $444,999
Switzerland $229,059
Australia $195,417
Luxembourg $167,664
Belgium $161,589
New Zealand $147,593
Norway $130,543
Italy $124,636
Japan $123,724
France $119,720
Singapore $108,850
United Kingdom $102,641
Canada $91,058
Netherlands $94,373
Taiwan $87,257
Ireland $84,592
Israel $78,244
Qatar $71,118
Malta $67,980
South Korea $67,934
Spain $63,369
Finland $57,850
Austria $57,534
United States $55,867
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_per_adult
Median means "half have more than this, half have less".
Summary of the situation is that a few people in America have most of the money. It's very unevenly distributed.
8
MrMagic
2018 Aug 31, 6:37pm
MrMagic
2018 Aug 31, 6:37pm
Patrick says
Patrick says
Exactly.. see below...
I read an article the other day that specifically touched on that regarding the US savings per household, comparing "average" to "median". The results are pretty eye-opening.
Magnify Money asks "How Much Does the Average American Have in Savings"?
The question is irrelevant. The story is how unprepared the median person is prepared for retirement.
Stats
1. The average American household has $175,510 worth of savings in bank accounts and retirement savings accounts as of June 2018.
2. The median American household currently holds about $11,700 across these same types of accounts.
3. The top 1% of households (as measured by income) have an average of $2,495,930 in these various saving accounts. The bottom 20% have an average of $8,720.
Point number 2 is the most relevant point. 50% of household have less than $11,700 in savings.
Age Level
This is where the stats get truly depressing.
The average "boomer" headed into or in retirement has $274,910 in savings.
What's wrong with that?
Well, 50% of boomers have less than $24,280 saved up.
Averages lie.
https://moneymaven.io/mishtalk/economics/shocking-look-at-average-vs-median-household-savings-6LFokUv9GkG5-_0zWbALUA/
Averages are misleading. The average of your and Bill Gates' personal wealth is a lot. But that doesn't make you rich.
Median wealth would be much more interesting.
Patrick says
Median means "half have more than this, half have less".
Exactly.. see below...
I read an article the other day that specifically touched on that regarding the US savings per household, comparing "average" to "median". The results are pretty eye-opening.
Magnify Money asks "How Much Does the Average American Have in Savings"?
The question is irrelevant. The story is how unprepared the median person is prepared for retirement.
Stats
1. The average American household has $175,510 worth of savings in bank accounts and retirement savings accounts as of June 2018.
2. The median American household currently holds about $11,700 across these same types of accounts.
3. The top 1% of households (as measured by income) have an average of $2,495,930 in these various saving accounts. The bottom 20% have an average of $8,720.
Point number 2 is the most relevant point. 50% of household have less than $11,700 in savings.
Age Level
This is where the stats get truly depressing.
The average "boomer" headed into or in retirement has $274,910 in savings.
What's wrong with that?
Well, 50% of boomers have less than $24,280 saved up.
Averages lie.
https://moneymaven.io/mishtalk/economics/shocking-look-at-average-vs-median-household-savings-6LFokUv9GkG5-_0zWbALUA/
9
MrMagic
2018 Aug 31, 6:57pm
MrMagic
2018 Aug 31, 6:57pm
DASKAA says
That's where it gets misleading, quoting "averages", as outliers on the end (the 1% wealthy people), skew the average number higher than reality.
Looking at "median" net wealth, which is the midline of all people surveyed, this is what you get, and I believe this also includes property:
Big difference.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/brace-yourself-this-is-how-much-americas-1-has-saved-2018-08-24
Our visualization reveals several key insights about personal wealth accumulation across the OECD. First off, the U.S. clearly dominates the rankings with over $170k on average per household.
That's where it gets misleading, quoting "averages", as outliers on the end (the 1% wealthy people), skew the average number higher than reality.
Looking at "median" net wealth, which is the midline of all people surveyed, this is what you get, and I believe this also includes property:
Big difference.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/brace-yourself-this-is-how-much-americas-1-has-saved-2018-08-24
10
Misc
2018 Aug 31, 8:11pm
These figures also don't take into account economic stability. Other currencies are more speculative in nature.
11
Strategist
2018 Aug 31, 9:05pm
Strategist
2018 Aug 31, 9:05pm
MrMagic says
Something does not make sense with this graph.
Stocks and real estate both collapsed in 2008. So why does the graph show barely any change at that time for the top 10% earners, who would be the ones to own most of the stocks and real estate.
I think the author has carefully cherry picked his statistics, dates and comparisons to make a biased point.
Lets just see the total net worth, by median and average and percentile, by each age group. By total, I mean ALL ASSETS, except personal assets like furniture cars etc.
Something does not make sense with this graph.
Stocks and real estate both collapsed in 2008. So why does the graph show barely any change at that time for the top 10% earners, who would be the ones to own most of the stocks and real estate.
I think the author has carefully cherry picked his statistics, dates and comparisons to make a biased point.
Lets just see the total net worth, by median and average and percentile, by each age group. By total, I mean ALL ASSETS, except personal assets like furniture cars etc.
12
Strategist
2018 Aug 31, 9:22pm
Strategist
2018 Aug 31, 9:22pm
Some good charts here that break net worth down by median age and quintiles.
https://wallethacks.com/average-net-worth-by-age-americans/
https://wallethacks.com/average-net-worth-by-age-americans/
13
bob2356
2018 Aug 31, 10:07pm
Strategist says
With much higher personal debt to go with it.
Strategist says
PPP is the most overhyped politicized metric in the history of the world. Read “Burgernomics,” by Michael Pakko and Patricia Pollard to find out just some of the problems with PPP.
Misc says
If you are having beers with a couple friends and bezos walks in average net worth becomes 40 billion. Feel any richer?
Overall, I believe we have a much higher standard of living than the rest of the pack. Larger homes, more and better cars, appliances, gadgets, travel.
With much higher personal debt to go with it.
Strategist says
They should also adjust the figures to reflect ...PPP-Purchasing Power Parity.
PPP is the most overhyped politicized metric in the history of the world. Read “Burgernomics,” by Michael Pakko and Patricia Pollard to find out just some of the problems with PPP.
Misc says
Also, in America the top 1/10 of a percent are extremely rich skewing the results. If you factor in the GINI for the median American we end up again middle of the pack. I also wish they had included real estate in their figures.
If you are having beers with a couple friends and bezos walks in average net worth becomes 40 billion. Feel any richer?
14
Strategist
2018 Aug 31, 10:13pm
Strategist
2018 Aug 31, 10:13pm
bob2356 says
Irrelevant actually. The saying goes.......He who dies with the most toys wins the game.
If we can all live like millionaires until we die, will it matter what our debt is?
Strategist saysOverall, I believe we have a much higher standard of living than the rest of the pack. Larger homes, more and better cars, appliances, gadgets, travel.
With much higher personal debt to go with it.
Irrelevant actually. The saying goes.......He who dies with the most toys wins the game.
If we can all live like millionaires until we die, will it matter what our debt is?
15
Strategist
2018 Aug 31, 10:17pm
Strategist
2018 Aug 31, 10:17pm
bob2356 says
Sure there are problems with the PPP. All statistical indicators have their good points and drawbacks. That is why you look at it along with some other indicators.
Strategist saysThey should also adjust the figures to reflect ...PPP-Purchasing Power Parity.
PPP is the most overhyped politicized metric in the history of the world. Read “Burgernomics,” by Michael Pakko and Patricia Pollard to find out just some of the problems with PPP.
Sure there are problems with the PPP. All statistical indicators have their good points and drawbacks. That is why you look at it along with some other indicators.
16
bob2356
2018 Sep 1, 6:59am
Strategist says
The problem is many don't die before the stop earning money to live like millionaires supported by debt. I'll take a lot less toys and more money to retire on thank you very much. Oh wait I did that already.
Strategist says
On the ground in other countries I don't see PPP being very valid. A lot of the numbers are just absurd. The big mac index is more accurate in the real world.
Strategist says
Having a house full of crap from walmart and a lot of debt to pay for it isn't a higher standard of living in my book. I agree with not including mortgage or real estate in the chart. It isn't really debt. You sell the house the debt goes away and you get back any equity you have built up. Mortgages are renting money and don't affect household wealth.
Unsecured debt in the US is getting close to 100k per household (depending on who's calculations you use) , half of that is student loans which can't be cleared by bankruptcy. Other countries don't even have student loans and many don't carry credit card balances that much.
The chart is pretty skewed by health care, retirement, and college education which are paid for in taxes (subtracted from household wealth) in other first world countries and out fo pocket (not subtracted for household wealth) to a large degree in the US even if you don't look at the distorions of mean vs average.
It would be investing to learn who funds howmuch.net to see who they are producing their numbers for. I never trust any chart unless i know who paid for it.
Irrelevant actually. The saying goes.......He who dies with the most toys wins the game.
If we can all live like millionaires until we die, will it matter what our debt is?
The problem is many don't die before the stop earning money to live like millionaires supported by debt. I'll take a lot less toys and more money to retire on thank you very much. Oh wait I did that already.
Strategist says
Sure there are problems with the PPP. All statistical indicators have their good points and drawbacks. That is why you look at it along with some other indicators.
On the ground in other countries I don't see PPP being very valid. A lot of the numbers are just absurd. The big mac index is more accurate in the real world.
Strategist says
Overall, I believe we have a much higher standard of living than the rest of the pack. Larger homes, more and better cars, appliances, gadgets, travel.
Having a house full of crap from walmart and a lot of debt to pay for it isn't a higher standard of living in my book. I agree with not including mortgage or real estate in the chart. It isn't really debt. You sell the house the debt goes away and you get back any equity you have built up. Mortgages are renting money and don't affect household wealth.
Unsecured debt in the US is getting close to 100k per household (depending on who's calculations you use) , half of that is student loans which can't be cleared by bankruptcy. Other countries don't even have student loans and many don't carry credit card balances that much.
The chart is pretty skewed by health care, retirement, and college education which are paid for in taxes (subtracted from household wealth) in other first world countries and out fo pocket (not subtracted for household wealth) to a large degree in the US even if you don't look at the distorions of mean vs average.
It would be investing to learn who funds howmuch.net to see who they are producing their numbers for. I never trust any chart unless i know who paid for it.
17
MrMagic
2018 Sep 1, 7:43am
MrMagic
2018 Sep 1, 7:43am
bob2356 says
Wow... just wow.... scary..
Never heard of "negative equity", have you? Or FHA loans? Or Home Equity loans?
Don't remember the years between 2006 - 2013 in the housing market?
I agree with not including mortgage or real estate in the chart. It isn't really debt. You sell the house the debt goes away and you get back any equity you have built up. Mortgages are renting money and don't affect household wealth.
Wow... just wow.... scary..
Never heard of "negative equity", have you? Or FHA loans? Or Home Equity loans?
Don't remember the years between 2006 - 2013 in the housing market?
18
Strategist
2018 Sep 1, 9:06am
Strategist
2018 Sep 1, 9:06am
bob2356 says
I'm not into fancy living either. Never excited me. I only travel economy, and stay in the Hilton or Marriott if I am with family. If I'm alone on business, even Super 8 will do. Keeping up with the Jones was never my thing. I believe in buying property and stocks.
The problem is many don't die before the stop earning money to live like millionaires supported by debt. I'll take a lot less toys and more money to retire on thank you very much. Oh wait I did that already.
I'm not into fancy living either. Never excited me. I only travel economy, and stay in the Hilton or Marriott if I am with family. If I'm alone on business, even Super 8 will do. Keeping up with the Jones was never my thing. I believe in buying property and stocks.
19
RWSGFY
2018 Sep 1, 9:15am
RWSGFY
2018 Sep 1, 9:15am
bob2356 says
It's not "their" numbers: they simply visualized OECD numbers.
It would be investing to learn who funds howmuch.net to see who they are producing their numbers for
It's not "their" numbers: they simply visualized OECD numbers.
20
bob2356
2018 Sep 1, 9:47am
MrMagic says
Oh wow, care to name all the times houses had negative equity across the nation. OH yea the great depression and the great recession. A once in 80 year event isn't a big concern for most normal people. For trolls yes, normal people no.
MrMagic says
ROFLOL. Your bank will loan more than the assessed value on a heloc Name the bank.
Don't remember the years between 2006 - 2013 in the housing market?
Oh wow, care to name all the times houses had negative equity across the nation. OH yea the great depression and the great recession. A once in 80 year event isn't a big concern for most normal people. For trolls yes, normal people no.
MrMagic says
Never heard of "negative equity", have you? Or FHA loans? Or Home Equity loans?
ROFLOL. Your bank will loan more than the assessed value on a heloc Name the bank.
21
CBOEtrader
2018 Sep 1, 9:48am
CBOEtrader
2018 Sep 1, 9:48am
Strategist says
I can put you into life insurance and solve that problem :)
If we can all live like millionaires until we die, will it matter what our debt is?
I can put you into life insurance and solve that problem :)
22
bob2356
2018 Sep 1, 9:54am
DASKAA says
But they didn't specify how they "visualized' the numbers or which numbers they chose to visualize.. The methodology isn't spelled out. Without knowing what was done or who pays the bills and what result they want to see I wouldn't take the chart as tablets off the mount. A lot of these "studies" start with the result someone wants to see then finds the methodology to get there.
bob2356 saysIt would be investing to learn who funds howmuch.net to see who they are producing their numbers for
It's not "their" numbers: they simply visualized OECD numbers.
But they didn't specify how they "visualized' the numbers or which numbers they chose to visualize.. The methodology isn't spelled out. Without knowing what was done or who pays the bills and what result they want to see I wouldn't take the chart as tablets off the mount. A lot of these "studies" start with the result someone wants to see then finds the methodology to get there.
23
RWSGFY
2018 Sep 1, 10:11am
RWSGFY
2018 Sep 1, 10:11am
bob2356 says
Yes they did and yes it is. Reading is fundamental.
But they didn't specify how they "visualized' the numbers or which numbers they chose to visualize.. The methodology isn't spelled out.
Yes they did and yes it is. Reading is fundamental.
24
bob2356
2018 Sep 1, 2:24pm
DASKAA says
They gave a description not a methodology. Comprehension is fundamental.
bob2356 saysBut they didn't specify how they "visualized' the numbers or which numbers they chose to visualize.. The methodology isn't spelled out.
Yes they did and yes it is. Reading is fundamental.
They gave a description not a methodology. Comprehension is fundamental.
26
bob2356
2018 Sep 2, 11:57am
MrMagic says
I thought the concept of once in 80 year event was pretty simple to grasp. I guess not to everyone. Ok everyone but mrlefty isn't worried abut a once in an 80 year event.
There are 1.3 million houses underwater out of 74 million. A whopping 1.7%. The average number before 2007 was 1%. Ok I'll concede your mysterious point and agree that 98.3% don't have to worry 10 years after a once in 80 year event. and that represents .7% increase over pre crash. You win an all expense paid trip to scenic downtown newark NJ. Feel better now? .
There are people in this world that really really needs a hobby.
Oops.... they're not...
Bob, want to try again?
I thought the concept of once in 80 year event was pretty simple to grasp. I guess not to everyone. Ok everyone but mrlefty isn't worried abut a once in an 80 year event.
There are 1.3 million houses underwater out of 74 million. A whopping 1.7%. The average number before 2007 was 1%. Ok I'll concede your mysterious point and agree that 98.3% don't have to worry 10 years after a once in 80 year event. and that represents .7% increase over pre crash. You win an all expense paid trip to scenic downtown newark NJ. Feel better now? .
There are people in this world that really really needs a hobby.
We got our numbers directly from the OECD. Our visualization roughly corresponds to the geographic location of each country on the map—the U.S. is furthest “west” and Japan is further “east.” The size of each bubble represents average household wealth for each country, or assets minus liabilities. This takes into account things like savings, securities, stocks and loans (but not real estate). We then color-coded each bubble based on the average disposable income for each household, which equates to the amount of income left over after taxes and transfers have been taken out. Basically, it’s how much you can spend on living expenses and other discretionary purchases.
These are the top ten countries among the OECD with the highest household wealth, together with the average disposable income.
1. United States: $176,076 with $44,049 in disposable income
2. Switzerland: $128,415 with $36,378 in disposable income
3. Belgium: $104,084 with $29,968 in disposable income
4. Japan: $97,595 with $28,641 in disposable income
5. Sweden: $90,708 with $30,553 in disposable income
6. Netherlands: $90,002 with $28,783 in disposable income
7. Canada: $85,758 with $29,850 in disposable income
8. United Kingdom: $83,405 with $28,408 in disposable income
9. Luxembourg: $74,141 with $41,317 in disposable income
10. Denmark: $73,543 with $28,950 in disposable income
Our visualization reveals several key insights about personal wealth accumulation across the OECD. First off, the U.S. clearly dominates the rankings with over $170k on average per household. The other standout on our list, Switzerland, is far behind the U.S. with $128k of accumulated household wealth on average. The rankings then become much tighter further down the list with countries grouped together in the $70-90k range. There are also a few countries in the OECD for obvious political reasons. It is hard to see why Russia should be counted with only $16,657 in disposable income and $2,260 in net financial wealth.
https://howmuch.net/articles/household-net-financial-wealth-around-the-world