patrick.net

Ok so I’ve been with my wife for 14 years and still happily married. And I’m of two minds about this state. Was it easy to achieve? Fuck no! Women are complicated and even they don’t understand themselves well enough to weigh in on the discussion. They think they are rational but in fact they are acting on instinctich of the time. Doesn’t mean that instinct is wrong all the time. Sometimes it’s right. But here’s the thing: you want a woman who is LOYAL. Without loyalty you’ll be stuck paying support for her while she bangs other dudes. Modern society makes this tough, as women get encouraged to look for bigger and better and richer rather than stay committed. Tell you what tho; the women that jump ship for the greener grass usually wind up alone, and that’s a pretty awful outcome for a woman. At that point they have no choice beyond the dating pool game (otherwise known as the cock carousel), going gay, or cat lady status.

So yah, the incentive is there for both sexes to work it out and become friends as well as lovers. Cuz make no bones about it, you’d better be with a woman you like well enough to be friends with and share a lifetime. If you are just tolerating her because she’s hot or bangs like a wildcat, you’re setting yourself up for radical pain in the future.

just_dregalicious says

Probably going to retire in Costa Rica.

My expat friend in CR tells me that not only does the food suck, it is also expensive. They live on Gallo Pinto (beans and rice) and a dish called casado.

komputodo says

My expat friend in CR tells me that not only does the food suck, it is also expensive. They live on Gallo Pinto (beans and rice) and a dish called casado.

Got the idea from my pilot cousin who flies there a lot. Retirement is a long way off but if this is still true then I will have to make other plans!

I almost got the impression that Mrmagic is calling me a "failed loser"?

I don't feel like one at all. In fact, it's a funny feeling; a few people have gossiped to others about me and I have "viral marketing".

Since I have 1. no children 2. no ex wife 3. no financial obligations to 1&2, I am seen as more desirable than average for my age group.

I look at Plenty of Fish for entertainment sometimes; it's fascinating that some females are willing to have a relationship with an older guy.

Since I have taken care of myself, I pass for someone a bit younger.

There is peer pressure among females against a girl dating an older guy, so the girl who visits me sometimes has had arguments with one of her friends.

Of course if I met someone who was a lot of fun to be with and was good company I would not mind a long term arrangement.

clambo says

Since I have 1. no children 2. no ex wife 3. no financial obligations to 1&2, I am seen as more desirable than average for my age group.

I have a thread about this topic with the visiting Chilean scholar in New England who I'd turned down for a relationship.

http://patrick.net/post/1314512/2018-03-17-we-re-approaching-rin-s-7-year-post-dating-anniversary

clambo says

I almost got the impression that Mrmagic is calling me a "failed loser"?

I don't feel like one at all. In fact, it's a funny feeling; a few people have gossiped to others about me and I have "viral marketing".

Since I have 1. no children 2. no ex wife 3. no financial obligations to 1&2, I am seen as more desirable than average for my age group.

I'm sure it's a wonderful life for you.

Hanging with fake women, trying to use you all the time to be wined and dined, then you're able to go home to a empty house, with no one solid and long term in your life.

Sounds like paradise! (NOT)

Funny, on how I hear that same "story" from every other, lonely single guy that I know.

Why do women get so upset when you bone them for a few months, injecting them with quarts of sperm, and then throw them out like used wash rags. I just don't understand it.

Why buy the cow when the milks for free.

clambo says

Of course if I met someone who was a lot of fun to be with and was good company I would not mind a long term arrangement.

You seem like a highly intelligent individual. As such, you’re unfortunate in that you’ll get bored with simple average intelligence women on record time. Unless they be crazy, and then they’ll cause you more grief than you deserve.
It’s doubly unfortunate because the only women you’ll be able to love long term are going to be smart women. And not only are they rare, they’re hard to keep. Smart women are prone to calling you out on your bullshit. They’re going to disagree with you. They’re going to get pissed with you. They can’t help it. Their evolutionary perogatives digress from your own.

But if you can take it, smart women will give you unrivaled companionship, uncommonly smart children, and financial rewards instead of costing you money.

I’m married to one. It ain’t been easy, but it’s been worth it!

Why do women get so upset when you bone them for a few months, injecting them with quarts of sperm, and then throw them out like used wash rags.

Yes, especially when so many use the actual washrags instead of those women.

Quigley says

It’s doubly unfortunate because the only women you’ll be able to love long term are going to be smart women. And not only are they rare, they’re hard to keep. Smart women are prone to calling you out on your bullshit. They’re going to disagree with you. They’re going to get pissed with you. They can’t help it. Their evolutionary perogatives digress from your own.

But if you can take it, smart women will give you unrivaled companionship, uncommonly smart children, and financial rewards instead of costing you money.

I’m married to one. It ain’t been easy, but it’s been worth it!

I'm going to agree with that. I'm married to one of those too.

You can never say it doesn't stay interesting... but it sure beats coming home to a empty house every night.

I know single men these days, I think everyone is under impression that women are just too entitled. Those women expect everything, while bringing nothing in return. No wonder those women are single, going to be living with lots of cats/dogs and dying alone.

just_dregalicious says

Toxic Femininity

just_dregalicious says

Got the idea from my pilot cousin who flies there a lot. Retirement is a long way off but if this is still true then I will have to make other plans!

Costa Rican home prices are now US-equivalent. Panama also, and many Panamanians from the city are neither warm nor friendly - even back in the 1600-1700s they had a reputation for being grouchy and arrogant. The country ones are very nice, but there are very limited services outside of the Canal Zone area.

Marriage is a trade where you give up excitement and freedom for stability and longetivity.

One is sustainable and the other isn’t. One typically results in high risk behavior and the other doesn’t.

The problem is that with today’s laws involving alimony, child support, custody, and visitation all favoring the woman, it derails some of the stability of marriage and therefore some men begin to see it as a losing proposition.

Previously I posted a lot of stuff about the situation I am in. Some guys took offense and even say I'm a lonely loser and etc.

So now after the drum roll I will talk about some negative attributes of the female species.

Females can't control their spending but want you to have unlimited money. If you are frugal they call you cheap or worse. I have heard this over and over over the years.

Once in my old Toyota truck as we went surfing "Why do you have such an old truck? You should buy a new one." "I made $250,000 using this truck, and I can show you the account later if you like."

One wanted me to quit my job and relocate to San Francisco to look for another one so we could be together. I said I was a bit reluctant to quit with a hope of finding something else. She married a fireman in the S. Bay which is almost like marrying a MD in California.

Last night a female friend (no nookie) who is visiting me for a while said "I can make us an omelette tomorrow, you need a few more ingredients." We went to Publix and I was in there for about an hour while she looked carefully at all of the sales, two for ones, etc. etc. When we finally checked out I paid $68 bucks. "Amazing, we came in for butter and cheese and I spent this."

She also later corrected me on how to repair a little piece of furniture, nothing fancy, just put some Elmer's glue or similar. "You should go to home depot and get screws; see there once were screws here? Don't do it all half-assed with glue!"

Another visiting me in Santa Cruz would want to go to San Francisco. She would be ready with her hair finally dry by about 1pm. So, we would arrive in San Francisco with about 2 hours of daylight n the wintertime. She also came to S. Florida and spent her time laying around the house until we went out for a late lunch, then she would visit the stores; the prices are so much better than Mexico! So I hung around Walmart, Costco, Target, then Ross, TJMaxx, Dollar Tree, and anyplace else. I would sit in the car sometimes and listen to the radio while she did this activity. Mostly I went with her because I paid.

Later when she wanted to return she had too much crap to fit in her suitcase; I bought a huge one at Goodwill and this became full and I had to give her my Briggs&Riley case so she could fit all her crap. The airline then said that the extra baggage/weight fee was $160 or so.

Another I dated said she would go to lunch. "where do you want to go?" "Anywhere" "OK, how about the Cuban place nearby me?" "Oh, no, that's too heavy food for me!" (they serve chicken and fish grilled and salads, etc also). She suggested a place and couldn't find it because she lied about living in my town.

Another said she would go to dinner with me. She said "I want to go to Bonefish Grill. Make a reservation. You can't wear shorts." I always wear shorts and a polo shirt since it's usually 80F out. Then we went and she told me how Melania Trump was a hooker. I got the salmon (usually safe) and a glass of wine. She ordered some fish and ordered red wine. "I should have noticed when you ordered the Chianti with the fish, old boy." James Bond.

Another for her birthday wanted to go to dinner. We were not really dating. I said "how about the Habit burger, you like that place." "I was in the mood for seafood." "OK" so we go up to a seafood place so she can order the 2 large lobster tails. She takes one of them home to eat the next day.

One girl I took to a Mexican place and was saying how fake it was. I said it was real enough, and that I had lived in Mexico. Later after eating she said "I want something else." "Really? You're hungry?" She ordered a dish to go to bring back to her 23 year old employed daughter. She also said to me "So, are you going to think about marriage? Or, is this all that we will do?" I said "We are living life, what more is there to do?" I had been dating her a short time.

Another girl who was a bit older asked me for my number. After disappearing for a few weeks, she contacted me. She had been arrested in the interim for drunk driving, I was curious about her. She later told me how she was fucked over by her divorce, her husband kept everything, etc. I said she was unusual in this regard. She texted me "Let's get something to eat, I'm hungry." "OK" "My GPS shows a place nearby me now, Seasons 52. (expensive joint)." I said "Do you want a burger? I know a place nearby me, I'll take us there." Later during the meal she said "So, is marriage on the table?" I had not even seen her naked yet.

One who was introduced to me said she would eat lunch with me. I let her pick the place. She looked at my two phones; I was carrying my father's phone as he was in the hospital but his doctors, etc. had his number not mine. "Is that an iPhone four??" she gasped. It was a 5 but I said "It's an iPhone 3.5" Later for her birthday she wanted to go to lunch at a fancier place. I said OK. Then she ordered oysters and champagne. The champagne split has so little so we got a bottle. Now I'm out $50 before we ordered lunch. After lunch she wanted to continue drinking (on a perfect beach day) and before it was all over I spent about $250. She was hot however, having been a stripper in her 20s. I didn't know this at the time. She was used to guys literally throwing money at her.

Another annoying habit is females tell me how much to tip; it's my money but I am supposed to tip 20%. One corrected me when I was putting down a cash tip "No, you have to tip $X". I tip 15% , this time I didn't want to fight so I caved in.

Most females do not have the ability to repair things, figure out things like 1040 software, etc. but they will lecture me on how to do things all of the time.

I could go on but really if you have found someone who submits to your will and screws you upon demand, you are lucky. You have won the female lottery until she gains weight.

One of the most endearing traits of the female species is the way they tell you 'Never lie to me. I want us to know each other completely and honestly!' as they dissemble, misdirect, fake, scheme, manipulate, cover up, hide their shameful baggage, camouflage, gossip, backbite, shame assault, blackmail with tears, browbeat for marriage, withhold sex for consideration, make you pay for everything, pout if you don't keep giving them more lavish gifts, demand that you do all the demeaning, dirty technical work they can't or won't do while not holding it up to them, refuse to go anywhere without hours of hair and makeup, lash you for looking at some girl's butt, tell you all the ways you can improve yourself and shed your hideous masculine ways for their benefit, and read endless bodice rippers of rich men who AREN'T you fantasizing about them tearing their clothes off and pursuing them with frenzied lust.

clambo says

I could go on but really if you have found someone who submits to your will and screws you upon demand, you are lucky.

So, you're trying to tell us that your whole laundry list of cast offs and horrible experiences is so much better than being in a stable, long relationship with ONE woman?

Sounds like either you're a glutton for punishment or just a "misery loves company" type of a guy.

If I had all those experiences like you listed, I'd go buy a dog, you'd end up being way ahead... and the dog would truly love you (and not because of money).

Did you ever sign on to eHarmony or Christian Mingles.... I bet you'd have better results. It certainly couldn't be worse.

MrMagic says

Christian Mingles.... I bet you'd have better results. It certainly couldn't be worse.

Couldn't be worse than Christian Shingles.

If Mrmagic won the female lottery, that's good for him. I don't consider myself lonely nor do I mind the occasional antics of some females.

Some of my stories are condensed from about 40 years in the "dating trenches" as it were. Of course there were plenty of nice girls who went along with the program.

The girls who have loved me or just liked me didn't because of money; just in the last two years did some find out I had it. What was universal was that they could not manage theirs with a few exceptions.

I would not have it any other way; it might be less fun if they cooperated maybe.

I have a friend in a very stable relationship. The wife grabbed the remote and he grabbed it back. She called 911 then hung up. Too late, the police came and the husband was in handcuffs. Now he had to pay a trial lawyer to avoid having a criminal record. He still loves her, but he is pussy whipped and has Stockholm Syndrome.

Travel to a foreign land and the problems all disappear; they all like you it seems.

hasta la vista baby

clambo says

He still loves her, but he is pussy whipped and has Stockholm Syndrome.

Sounds like my brother-in-law to my sister.

clambo says

didn't because of money; just in the last two years did some find out I had it. What was universal was that they could not manage theirs with a few exceptions.

Yeah man, I don't tell em how much I make/have these days. It's still easy to hide because I rent a condo and drive a 16.5 year old honda haha... EVERY chick I've dated on the West coast the past 21 years has had huge debt except for one who I caught writing herself $20 checks here and there using my checkbook. She was good with her money that's for sure. The rest had a minimum of 30K debt on credit cards but usually had all sorts of other debt plus denial and a bad attitude about it. Didn't matter if they were a doctor, lawyer, nasa techie, hi techie, marketing, artist, teacher, eco-nazi .. all of em.

I remember this smoking hot one who had the initials, "KY" but definitely didn't need it who'd told me she had no debt. We were hanging out on her couch one afternoon and someone knocked at her apartment door. She got served! hahaha For some crazy multi-thousand dollar debt stemming from not paying off a $500 debt years before. She didn't consider it "real" debt because the original value was only $500!

In silicon valley many had this attitude they'd make it up later investing in a local tech company or something.

I used to call them rescue women. Some guy has to rescue them. Damn sure wasn't going to be me!

clambo says

Mrmagic won the female

Sounds like he has. There were easier times and are easier places to play the game though. Quigley is a talker. I'm glad he is, he writes great posts. I've noticed guys like that with the gift of gab do a pretty good job getting good women. I think part of the reason though is it's a bit of a female trait.

Marriage is great for family and children. It’s Not for everyone.

Some women never grow out of looking for sugar daddy all their life, while offering nothing in return.

just_dregalicious says

I've noticed guys like that with the gift of gab do a pretty good job getting good women. I think part of the reason though is it's a bit of a female trait.

Wait, what... I though you guys been railing on an on it's all about the lack of aging, the "package" that you're carrying, and your checkbook.

Please make up you mind, or finally admit, some guys know how to choose the right woman, and some don't....

FortWayneIndiana says

Some women never grow out of looking for sugar daddy all their life, while offering nothing in return.

And some guys take that bait and never learn... "The definition of Insanity is Doing The Same Thing Over and Over, Expecting a Different Result".

MrMagic says

all about the lack of aging, the "package" that you're carrying, and your checkbook.

You've mis-quoted me. Entirely..

Furthermore when you picked your wife she either wasn't allowed to own a credit card or had only been granted that right recently.

I know some guys who got a male order bride from the Philippines. Even my mother in law was one of those. So I know many, scores, of such arrangements. I am telling you, the odds are not very good. For every successful marriage, I know one where the bride used the guy for her green card, then dumped him (but not before draining his finances). Some of those locked in a stream of child support income by spawning a(n) American (or European) child(ren).

While in the office with about twenty guys, waiting to clock out from work, a guy i'd never met before say to me, "You must be single" I said "Yup...How did you know?" He says, "You look like your happy to be going home." Sad just sad.


There is nothing init for men! men know there is a massive chance they will lose their friends, respect , personal time, lose sex life and their money . Men are just being smart.

just_dregalicious says

just_dregalicious says

Furthermore when you picked your wife she either wasn't allowed to own a credit card or had only been granted that right recently.

See, this is why you guys are having the "success" that you're having with women, you just don't get it. You treat woman like second class citizens.

My wife and I are equals in everything we do, there's no "your money, my money, our money" - we combine what we have from day one, it's only "our money". There were years that I made more money than her, there were years when she made more than me. It didn't matter, it all went into one pot, and we planned our budget, spending, and savings just based on one pool of income. It's a equal partnership, no matter what.

This is why you guys keep failing. You're putting up barriers and walls early in a relationship, and that undertone carries through everything you do with them. Then you wonder why it all turns to shit. You're going in thinking the woman is the "enemy" from day one, then wonder why it doesn't work out.... duh...

If one of us tries to gain a little bit too much "power", the other one smacks us back into reality.

MrMagic says

just_dregalicious says

Furthermore when you picked your wife she either wasn't allowed to own a credit card or had only been granted that right recently.

See, this is why you guys are having the "success" that you're having with women, you just don't get it. You treat woman like second class citizens.

My wife and I are equals in everything we do, there's no "your money, my money, our money" - we combine what we have from day one, it's only "our money". There were years that I made more money than her, there were years when she made more than me. It didn't matter, it all went into one pot, and we planned our budget, spending, and savings just based on one pool of income. It's a equal partnership, no matter what.

This is why you guys keep failing. You're putting up barriers and walls early in a relationship, and that undertone carries through everything you do with them. Then you wond...

You've got it half right. The fact is, 50% of all marriages fail. It IS somewhat of a crapshoot. You can NEVER tell what is in someone else's heart. Men need to protect themselves. Women lie all the time. This is a truism. Add to all this is another fact that men are still held to a higher standard of financial responsibility (even in the court system) even as women cry from the mountain tops that they are equal to men. Hogwash. Men get FUCKED in many ways.

I agree that society is best with marriages such as yours and I root for couples like you every day. I hope you have many many many like minded children. Me: cohabitating with a single, divorced mother of 2
We have lived together for 15 years. I've heard her emote about marriage for 15 years. Meanwhile she is divorced, her father is twice divorced, her mother is 3 time divorced and her brother is divorced. No thank you. BUT I am willing to stand tall and deliver, to the best of my ability, to love her and her two girls so that MAYBE the cycle can be broken.

Pro Tip: find a single mother and help her raise her child(ren) and be a great (not good...GREAT) man AND COHABITATE IN A STATE WHERE THERE ARE NO COMMON LAW MARRIAGE LAWS.

Dialogue usually goes something like this:
Woman: I would like to get married.
Man: Do you know how to cook?
Woman: No.
Do you keep a clean house? No.
Are you trustworthy? No.
Do you have kids? Yes. From several guys.
Do you eat junk food? Yes.
Do you have health problems? Many.
Do you have money problems? Du-uh.
Do you drink? Yes, girls just want to have fun.
What do you think marriage is? Flying around the world on a permanent vacation.
Man: Thank you for the info.
Woman: ... He has commitment problems.

WineHorror1 says

You've got it half right. The fact is, 50% of all marriages fail. It IS somewhat of a crapshoot. You can NEVER tell what is in someone else's heart.

The reason many fail is because of this trueism...

A woman sees a man and tell her girlfriends, "he's great husband material, and I can change him". Then, they get married, she tries to change his ways, and fails, he stays the same guy she married, and they get divorced.

A guy sees a woman and tells his buddies, :"she's perfect wife material". Then, they get married, they have some kids, she gets fat, she gets lazy, she becomes irresponsible with money, and changes as a woman, when he was hoping she would stay the same way when they married, and they get a divorce.

WineHorror1 says

I agree that society is best with marriages such as yours and I root for couples like you every day. I hope you have many many many like minded children.

We have 3 kids, two are married and have their own kids. So far, both relationships are solid. Our third kid is still single and working up the career ladder and he's searching for a woman. Our kids aren't the type to complain about their bosses or work, or complain that a task is too hard. They just jump in and "git er done". I believe they learned that from us. Kids are a victim of their environment. If the parents are losers and serial divorcees, or alcoholics, or druggies, or lazy, etc. the odds are, they will be too.

Here's the deal. Marriage is TOUGH work, and probably the toughest job anyone can have (raising kids is second tough). Marriage has tons of ups and downs, highs and lows, and if the two people haven't set their mind to make it work, then it will become part of that 50% statistic of divorce. That's where I see the issue. Most people DON'T have the "do what ever it takes" mentality, and would rather choose to give up, instead of make it work. You see this in work situations all the time. It's the 80/20 rule in business.

In the end, if you're not "in it to win it", you're destined to fail, and be part of that statistic.

MrMagic says

WineHorror1 says

I agree that society is best with marriages such as yours and I root for couples like you every day. I hope you have many many many like minded children.

We have 3 kids, two are married and have their own kids. So far, both relationships are solid. Our third kid is still single and working up the career ladder and he's searching for a woman. Our kids aren't the type to complain about their bosses or work, or complain that a task is too hard. They just jump in and "git er done". I believe they learned that from us. Kids are a victim of their environment. If the parents are losers and serial divorcees, or alcoholics, or druggies, or lazy, etc. the odds are, they will be too.

Here's the deal. Marriage is TOUGH work, and probably the toughest job anyone can have (raising kids is second tough). Marriage has tons of ups and downs, highs and lows, and if the two people haven't s...

Good stuff. I wish you and all of your progeny good will.

MrMagic.

You are truly blessed, finding a wife that will be a childhood sweetheart to grave life companion. Two things you mentioned I believe are in your favor. First, neither has unrealistic expectations from the other. Secondly, you mentioned sometimes you make more money and sometimes she does. That indicates both of you have a common value about money.

I waited until I was 37 to get married and that was to a 31 year old woman I had been dating for 2 years. (Until then, I was in the Air Force and dumped any girl I was dating when I got transferred). During my dating years, I was not seriously interested in divorcees or women with kids. Plenty of women in their mid-to late twenties fit that criteria, and not just the undesired as you say, but women who had other plans besides early marriage. I would also avoid getting serious with any woman who was irresponsible with money, as I figured she would drag me down into poverty with her.

Some great comments in this thread, and wise words from experienced men!

Joke time!
What’s the most fattening food in the world?
(Feel free to insert punchline)