patrick.net

Trump won because he was the Presidential candidate that said all of the things that the shrinking middle class, have been wanting a Presidential candidate to say for decades. He's that guy we used to get high and wish someone like Trump would come along. All of those that have felt rights being killed in this country by a million pieces, have been waiting for Trump. He was a pipe dream 30 years in the making.

It wasn't nothing Obama did(though he did make Trump's argument easy for him) it wasn't the destroyed economy, it wasn't the massive amount of unemployed.
America went all in on What Trump was saying.

The MSM would love to convince everyone that it's just typical Politics as usual, and Trump just pandered to common lies they all tell. They want to ignore the real things Trump said, and pretend it's purely about economics.

Tim Aurora says

Patrick says

So the real cause, which liberals won't admit, is simply that millions of jobs have been exported to China, and millions of illegals have been imported from Mexico.

Instead, they just call suffering people "racist" over and over and over. Not a way to win friends and influence people who still (for now) have the right to vote.

Fair assessment the reason why Trump was elected. That said, Trump does not have an answer , simply slogans and ramblings. This is why it is inevitable

1.Even if these imports ( and jobs) come back it will be highly automated resulting in almost 90% loss.
1a. If US has to remain on the top, it has no other alternative but to embrace open world trade. The only thing that Trump has done good here is pressure China. ( Fighting with Canada and EU does not help).
3. Illegal immigration will simply not go away unless these countries exporting these immigrant gain a good st...

The automation speech has been given for years on patnet and it simply has not happened. Manufacturing still requires a lot of human oversight and new tech jobs connected to local manufacturing are born. There are plenty of countries who have strong manufacturing and kept most of those jobs despite automation. The trade war has so far gone in favor of the US and illegal immigration will stop or strongly decline when the incentives are taken away and the borders secured. Many countries have demonstrated they can achieve close to zero illegal immigration and they don't exhibit any of the problems that come with it. More countries will follow the Trump / Salvini / Orban / Kurz way and make themselves great again.

Patrick says

Instead, they just call suffering people "racist" over and over and over

I've never heard anyone generalize that all Trump voters are racist. But yes, what's obvious to any honest person is that Trump unapologetically appealed to white racists, nationalists and xenophobes. For some that alone was a total deal breaker.

And many non-racist republicans, that voted for Trump, will acknowledge Trumps willingness to appeal to racists. What's the difference between those republicans and ones around here that deny it ? My guess is that it's how strongly they feel about illegal immigration or perhaps in some cases it is racism. But keep in mind, depending on how loosely you define it, we're all racist in some ways.

And by the way, someone can think that Trump is a racist and that he appealed to racists while also being at least somewhat sympathetic to Peter Thiel type beliefs("Myth of Diversity") that Patrick like to espouse - although Patrick takes it further than Thiel. . But there is a line between thinking that SJWs and political correctness have gone too far, versus outright racism. Trump appealed to people in both camps, as well as those simply preferring right wing policies, or those that are gullible followers of right wing group think propaganda regarding "teh evil libruls."

Panera claims Trump's rise was due to Panera yeast and they take all the credit.

Tim Aurora says

Fair assessment the reason why Trump was elected. That said, Trump does not have an answer , simply slogans and ramblings. This is why it is inevitable

What's the Democratic Answer?

Will they cap H1Bs at 10,000 per year, and require them to make at least $80,000 so they are truly experts, not just cheaper workers?

Will they impose tariffs on China until China reduces their trade barriers on us to the same level we have on them?

Or will they just call everybody racist?

Racists ALWAYS hate being called out on it.

Agree or disagree 2 scoops ?

OH wait, you're of the opinion that in no way is Trump racist and that he wanted to firmly disassociate himself from racists before the election ? He felt that if it was going to take getting the racist vote to win, he didn't want to be President.

Right ?

marcus says

Racists ALWAYS hate being called out on it.

Huh? Wouldn't a totally innocent of racism person also ALWAYS hate to be called a racist? Which means everybody ALWAYS hate being called a racist whether they deserve it or not.

marcus says

I've never heard anyone generalize that all Trump voters are racist.

Lol, do you not read, listen to, or watch the news, ever?

Please try a web search for "all trump voters are racist" and look how many results show up, especially in the mainstream media.

marcus says

Racists ALWAYS hate being called out on it.

Agree or disagree 2 scoops ?

OH wait, you're of the opinion that in no way is Trump racist and that he wanted to firmly disassociate himself from racists before the election ? He felt that if it was going to take getting the racist vote to win, he didn't want to be President.

Right ?

I would think that most truly racist people would LOVE it being pointed out. Like they are righteous and proud about it. Its absolute irony that you've alleged a great number of white nationalists, supremecists, etc, yet you also allege that racists keep their views under wraps and hate it being exposes.

Its almost as if the left purposely boxes things in so that lies can continue in perpetuity with no way to ever confirm or deny.

Patrick says

Lol, do you not read, listen to, or watch the news, ever?

Please try a web search for "all trump voters are racist" and look how many results show up, especially in the mainstream media.

I did that. Only one that made that claim, some guest on a CNN show said that one time.

For some reason Patrick, you're very sensitive on this, but I have to tell you it doesn't happen hardly ever. I stand by my claim that pretty much nobody ever says that. What happens is that people say racism was a big factor, or a deciding factor, which is obvious to neutral and honest folks.

This was at the top on the search you asked me to do. Yes, I use google.

https://psmag.com/news/research-finds-that-racism-sexism-and-status-fears-drove-trump-voters

IT makes no such generalized claim.

DASKAA says

Which means everybody ALWAYS hate being called a racist whether they deserve it or not.

Fair enough. I'll also grant you that if a Trump supporter is not racist all or only is slightly above average in their racism as a white person, it's quite understandable to resent feeling that they are being grouped with outright racist assholes who did in fact vote for Trump becasue of the racist factor.

But those that deny the existence of those racists that they don't want to be grouped with, end up sounding like they might be one of them.

Better to admit there are a lot of racists that back Trump and to disassociate yourself from them.

If you can't admit they are there, what the hell am I supposed to conclude ?

CovfefeButDeadly says

I would think that most truly racist people would LOVE it being pointed out

Only the most extreme Nazi type, that wants to create a white ethnostate. If you think one has to be a white supremacist to that degree to be a racist, then you're right.

No, actually most racists tend very much to deny their racism.

marcus says

people say racism was a big factor, or a deciding factor

People do say the dems are racist, at least the honest people.

marcus says

which is obvious to neutral and honest folks.

This is evidence of a propagandized mind.

The racists today are on the left.

marcus says

CovfefeButDeadly says

I would think that most truly racist people would LOVE it being pointed out

No, actually most racists tend very much to deny their racism.

OMG!

marcus says

If you can't admit they are there, what the hell am I supposed to conclude ?

So Marcus's big claim is that amongst 64 million people, some of them are racist? OMG... the horror.

Should we do a little statistical analysis to model who the murderers voted for?

CovfefeButDeadly says

No, actually most racists tend very much to deny their racism.

OMG!

Yeah, his logic is like VOX's 98% of rapists arent convicted memes.

YOU ARE RACIST BECAUSE I DISAGREE W YOU. shocked you wont admit your obvious racism.

FYI ^^ this is exactly how brainwashing is designed to work.

marcus says

we're all racist

marcus says

I don't care for identity politics.

marcus says

I'm a white male and I'm certainly not anti white male, nor am I racist.

marcus says

most racists tend very much to deny their racism.

DASKAA says

marcus says

Racists ALWAYS hate being called out on it.

Huh? Wouldn't a totally innocent of racism person also ALWAYS hate to be called a racist? Which means everybody ALWAYS hate being called a racist whether they deserve it or not.

The comments from marcus are all over the map, and lack consistency or even self-awareness, calling everyone racist and/or "dimbulbs" merely to troll people. The comments have little or nothing to do with evidence nor reason. Instead, the obsession with "racism" reflects chronic, generalized, and overly emotional anger, e.g. about having failed at trading where "dimbulbs" (i.e., people who disagreed with marcus) did better.

I saw an interesting statistic recently, that exit surveys showed evangelical voters split sharply by color in 2016. A Muslim author presented that as evidence of racism, trying to accuse the white people of being racist. The opposite explanation seems more accurate. If the Democratic nominee had campaigned on paying to import thousands of white Nazis, on behalf of campaign backers including the manufacturers of Zyklon B, she would have lost in a landslide. Instead, she campaigned on paying to import thousands of Muslims, on behalf of backers including KSA. The founding Nazis agreed with the leading Muslims of their time that their doctrines were very similar, and 100k European Muslims joined the Nazi SS for that reason, but that history is now widely forgotten. Today, racists see only that most Nazis are white and most Muslims are brown. (Sinéad O'Connor is going to have to work on her tan so she can avoid seeing "white people" in the mirror.) So, the brown Evangelicals voted to import brown Nazis, while opposing white Nazis. That's racist.

marcus says

Better to admit there are a lot of racists that back Trump and to disassociate yourself from them.

If you can't admit they are there, what the hell am I supposed to conclude ?

Sorry if this triggered you CBOE. You could have just said, "good point."

Should people be judged on the content of their character, and not the color of their skin?

If so, like Morgan Freeman says we should simply ignore race and stop talking about it.

www.youtube.com/embed/I3cGfrExozQ

Patrick says

If so, like Morgan Freeman says we should simply ignore race and stop talking about it.

I would like that.

Would that mean no more posts about black crime statistics or about how diversity is actually a bad thing ?

Remember the arguments about whether Zimmerman murdered Trayvon Martin or not ? It was interesting the way that opinions fell on that in this forum. To me race shouldn't have been a factor in that discussion, it was cut and dried. Zimmerman caused a young man's death, for no good reason. Period. The details of what happened were mostly based on Zimmerman's story. But what we know is that if Zimmerman had followed instructions Martin would be alive.

Had it been a cop stopping him it probably wouldn't have happened. Although we have a problem with loose trigger fingers on some cowardly cops in this country too.

marcus says

I've never heard anyone generalize that all Trump voters are racist.

Hah! You’ve done that yourself!

Ceffer says

Panera claims Trump's rise was due to Panera yeast and they take all the credit.

Make bread great again?

marcus says

Patrick says

If so, like Morgan Freeman says we should simply ignore race and stop talking about it.

I would like that.

Would that mean no more posts about black crime statistics or about how diversity is actually a bad thing ?

Remember the arguments about whether Zimmerman murdered Trayvon Martin or not ? It was interesting the way that opinions fell on that in this forum. To me race shouldn't have been a factor in that discussion, it was cut and dried. Zimmerman caused a young man's death, for no good reason. Period. The details of what happened were mostly based on Zimmerman's story. But what we know is that if Zimmerman had followed instructions Martin would be alive.

Had it been a cop stopping him it probably wouldn't have happened. Although we have a problem with loose trigger fingers on some cowardly cops in this country too.

I'll remind you that part of your position on that matter was that the judgement in that case would have set "precedent".

I accurately, factually, informed you how precedent was created. The Trayvon Martin case had literally ZERO chance to set precedent. Nonetheless you pushed forward, head down.

I highly suspect you will not respond to the posting by Curious. I would if someone disparaged me in that manner. Of course, its not disparaging if its factually true.

marcus says

Zimmerman caused a young man's death, for no good reason.

Except that young man laid his hands on Zim first. For no good reason.

Trayvon Martin was a burglar whom South Florida Authorities ignored because of their Obama-backed policy of downgrading felonies to misdemeanors or nothing.

To stop the "School to Prison" pipeline, simply by not enforcing the law.

Just after a family was robbed of women's gold Jewelry, Trayvon shows up with multiple hundred dollar bills on Social Media. Later, her jewelry is found in his school locker, but it goes to Lost and Found instead of the Evidence Locker, on purpose. The School LEOs are separate from the general LEOs, and Miami Dade is the only Florida county without an elected Sheriff.

Trayvon was also taller than Zimmerman, almost 6 feet tall, though the Media only showed pictures from years ago and selected the ones to make him look as non-threatening as possible.

What did Trump talk about in the midterms? I heard very little about helping the displaced workers in America. It was mostly a message of fear. And bragging about how wonderful he was.

As to automation, pretty much anyone that has run a business will tell you that if a machine can take the place of or increase the productivity of a worker and the financials work they will choose the machine. This is just good business practice.
Machines have better work ethics and don't require health insurance or other benefits.Those manufacturing jobs will not come back in anyway near the quantity, they left. Watch the Fox com plant in Wisconsin. They were doomed regardless, just happened sooner with off shoring, NAFTA. The jobs that do return, many will require skill sets the displaced workers don't have. Like coal miners they are fucked and most know it, like the article said a hand granade, shrapnel everywhere, colateral damage is a desirable result for them.

rdm says

Machines have better work ethics and don't require health insurance or other benefits.Those manufacturing jobs will not come back in anyway near the quantity, they left. Watch the Fox com plant in Wisconsin. They were doomed regardless, just happened sooner with off shoring, NAFTA. The jobs that do return, many will require skill sets the displaced workers don't have. Like coal miners they are fucked and most know it, like the article said a hand granade, shrapnel everywhere, colateral damage is a desirable result for them.

Thank you. Let's spread this message wide and far in the Rustbelt, in the Inner Cities, and many other places that have fallen victim to Democratic Economic Ideas, which include maintaining one-way Free Trade. So they can know which Party has irredeemably written them off and has no solutions.

Of course, this is false because even the modest changes Trump has wrought have brought in hundreds of thousands of manufacturing jobs that Obama claimed would never ever return.

Apparently Democrats have no solution to replace the manufacturing jobs that were the cornerstone to the American dream, since they fight for more H1Bs to insure that tech jobs go to tech coolies so Cook doesn't have to part with the mountain of cash they're sitting on.. No solution that doesn't involve massive Socialist redistribution, but that's not practical since the Dems depend on Big Tech and Big Finance staying in the US; they won't pay the huge tax increases required. They will simply move to HK/Toronto/London/Frankfurt/Singapore and use one-sided Free Trade to maintain their presence in the USA.

Democrats hate America. Not one Holiday, be it Columbus Day, Thanskgiving, or the 4th of July, they don't criticize as being innately Evil White Colonialism. What their SJW doesn't hate for being Toxic Male Whiteness, the Neoliberal Pelosi/Feinstein branch hatess for being Middle America, so their slogan is "How much faster can we offshore businesses?" and "Does it piss off Peoria."

Quigley says

marcus says

I've never heard anyone generalize that all Trump voters are racist.

Hah! You’ve done that yourself!

That's a lie, but I'm not surprised. Like Trump, lies are like oxygen to many Trump supporters. They just can't live without their lies.

Speaking of lies.

DASKAA says

marcus says

Zimmerman caused a young man's death, for no good reason.

Except that young man laid his hands on Zim first. For no good reason.

We don't know that. All we know for sure is that Zimmerman came up on Martin in the dark of night, and according to Zimmerman demanded that he wait for the police. We don't know what happened and have absolutely zero reason to believe Zimmerman's story. He was instructed to wait and not to pursue. We know with 100% certainty that if it was murder, Zimmerman would have a story like this. IT's second degree murder at least. If his story is true, that's his problem for coming up on Martin in the first place armed and ready to kill.

This is the guy whose story you believe. I'm sure race has nothing to do with you finding this psycho asshole credible. Something like 10 public recorded incidents since the Martin killing showing how unhinged he is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Zimmerman

CovfefeButDeadly says

I highly suspect you will not respond to the posting by Curious. I would if someone disparaged me in that manner. Of course, its not disparaging if its factually true.

I have him on ignore, but I saw it (sort of - didn't read the whole thing). He's obsessed with me.

IF you think that what I say sounds that unreasoned as he says, I'm not going to get in an infinite argument defending my point of view. Feel free to take issue to something specific I say, if you want a response.

I didn't read his nonsense very closely, but I saw he said something like I'm just upset becasue I failed at trading. Wtf ?

I feel sorry for the guy. He has a lot of hate towards me, becasue of times I corrected him in the past. In my view he's possibly most emotionally dysfunctional person on Patrick.net. His posts about me are almost 100% lies. I'm not going to go back and look at it. I saw several lies and the sad comment about my being upset becasue I failed at trading. (by the way - it's true I'm not a floor trader since 1993 which I guess is the basis of that comment).

Honestly, I just feel sorry for the guy at this point. I hope he gets much needed help.

marcus says

He has a lot of hate towards me, becasue of times I corrected him in the past... His posts about me are almost 100% lies... I saw several lies and the sad comment about my being upset becasue I failed at trading. (by the way - it's true I'm not a floor trader since 1993 which I guess is the basis of that comment).

Please look up the words "lie" and "true". As you admit, what I said was true. If you can cite examples of lies, or even where you have "corrected" me about anything, please post. I can easily cite examples of your many emotional explosions insulting many PatNet users, including name-calling and profanity. You deleted a whole thread where I proved you wrong about a rule of math, which you claim (incredibly) to teach. It appears that you call a "lie" any true fact that you dislike, but that isn't what "lie" means.

For examples of actual lies, look at your own baseless accusations against me. You fail even at pretending to ignore me. Most of my comments have nothing to do with you, but on any occasion when I bother to point out one or more of your many errors, your cognitive dissonance impels you to try to 'retaliate' by fabricating false accusations, aka lies.

marcus says

We don't know what happened and have absolutely zero reason to believe Zimmerman's story

What reason do we have to believe Martin, who previously burgled a house? Either that, or some other burglar stored the jewelry he stole in Martin's High School Locker which he somehow could access, and that Martin's pictures of himself with several hundred dollar bills are from him, uh, I have no idea.

if he stole from one house, how do we know he wasn't casing another house?

Most people I know who have a brain and 1. don't work for government 2. isn't a foreigner 3. isn't in HUD housing, food stamps, etc. voted for Trump.

The poor blacks know they are competing with foreigners for 1 govt. services 2. jobs

The "working class" people know they pay taxes to put the illegals' kids in school. This just happened in my small town; they raised property taxes to "pay for schools". I just drove by the local school and the kids in the field running around were largely children of illegals. Yeah, I can tell by how they look and that's not being "racist".

The self-employed wanted to repeal Obamacare mostly. Self-employed people are probably the most aware of the tax code and how it affects them also. The self-employed knew Hillary was going to keep fucking them over.

Many tech people were "outsourced" in the USA by H1-B visas from India, etc. Disney World and Compaq are examples I know of. Many professional people are concerned with an influx of foreign workers.

Simply put; importing workers impoverishes most Americans and lowers our standard of living and wages.

More astute voters would realize that importing foreigners and giving them access to free health care will further bankrupt the USA.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

marcus says

We don't know what happened and have absolutely zero reason to believe Zimmerman's story

What reason do we have to believe Martin, who previously burgled a house? Either that, or some other burglar stored the jewelry he stole in Martin's High School Locker which he somehow could access, and that Martin's pictures of himself with several hundred dollar bills are from him, uh, I have no idea.

if he stole from one house, how do we know he wasn't casing another house?

Martin was a thug and had it coming for him. Facts don't lie. The media does.

Left has been really trying to hide economic issues, and promoting all attention to "save the gays, trannies and feminists". Party was taken over by stupid. Of course they lost. Especially when people come with economic woes, and liberals ignore these.

NPR went out of their way to make sure all conversation was about increasing taxes to save the golden pension system for government, fuck the private sector employees who can barely afford taxes.

MegaForce says

While other nations are patently SCREWED if they are cut off from trade with the US or if the world trading system we set up but are not abandoning (irrespective of whomever is in the WH...Trump is just accelerating the process and undiplomatically shitting openly over the rest of the world about it while doing so).

Correct. The list of things the US can't produce at all or in quantities is very limited.

The only big ticket item necessary for daily life we have to import is Coffee, since Hawaii couldn't begin to supply the daily need. And maybe Bananas.

From Iron to Oil, from Coal to Cars, from Soybeans to Superconductors, from Borax to Beef, the US is or has been and could easilly be, self-sufficient.

Democratic party voices summarized: "Regulate, regulate, restrict, restrict, LGBT rights, regulate, regulate, tax, tax, tax, tax, government unions are holy, tax, tax, tax, if you disagree with us you are a bigot racist bad person, disagreement is a thought crime".

That's a good reason why they lost.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

The only big ticket item necessary for daily life we have to import is Coffee, since Hawaii couldn't begin to supply the daily need. And maybe Bananas.

California grows coffee, although at higher cost. Hawaii and Puerto Rico can grow bananas.

MegaForce says

Or simply just do without, like French wine.

California grows wine too, even sparkling wine with grapes from Champagne. Chandon sparkling wine is made the French way by Moët & Chandon, using the same grapes. California is a truly amazing place, contrary to what some comments on PatNet might have you believe.

MegaForce says

Or simply just do without, like French wine.

German Beer and French Wine should be banned from importation until the agree to accept our Poultry. This has gone on since the 50s, long before Factory Farm Chicken, Europeans were tariffing the hell out of our agra products. It's time to just ban their crap, only pain will ensure compliance with Free Trade.

Speaking of Panera, I'm sitting in one right now. They want $5 for soup? Haha...not happening.

Patrick says

He added, “Trump is a human hand grenade to blow up a society that isn’t working for big swatches of America.”

More like a middle finger. He's good at being a middle finger.