patrick.net

Beware of Michigan as well. Taxes, utility rates - I'll stop there.

Born and raised in Michigan - nice place to visit in say August - between Mosquito/Deer Fly Season and Never Ending Winter Season

Opted for one of those "boring" places myself that are mentioned in the comments.

Only regret about leaving California is that it did not happen sooner.

socal2 says

Yes - all that lake effect snow in the winter and mosquitoes and humidity in the summer time are not boring.

Lake effect snow is AWESOME! It got me out of school at least a few days a year, and makes for great sledding. Compare that to ice storms in the Midwest coupled with below zero temps, several degrees below zero wind temperatures, and the moderate Michigan winter kicks ass. Same for summer. The Lakes prevent the 100% humidity that blankets the Midwest.

Did you ever actually live in Michigan?

Kakistocracy says

Beware of Michigan as well. Taxes, utility rates - I'll stop there.

Born and raised in Michigan - nice place to visit in say August - between Mosquito/Deer Fly Season and Never Ending Winter Season

I did look at Michigan as the COL is among lowest in the country, but pay is also very low.

What's all this mention of mosquitoes? We lived on a lake for four years, and I don't remember having any crazy mosquito problems.

NuttBoxer says

Did you ever actually live in Michigan?

No, I lived in Chicago and Indianapolis. But all of my relatives live in Michigan (both of my parents grew up there too) and I have visited hundreds of times during all seasons. We had a good family reunion a few years ago in July in South Haven. I remember thinking, this place it pretty nice I could live here. Then I see pictures like this and quickly snap back to sanity.

NuttBoxer says

Lake effect snow is AWESOME!

No - it is boring, depressive and a pain in the ass to deal with. Overcast constantly - a day with sunshine is a rare commodity. Big pain in the ass

NuttBoxer says

Did you ever actually live in Michigan?

I'll see your 4 years and raise you 20

Wish I didn't but unfortunately had no choice in the matter until I got old enough and had the means to get the fuck out.

1951 - 1971, Keweenaw Pennisula. Winter runs from October to end of April, in a good year it starts in September and last until mid May

Technical residence for mailing and tax purposes from 1975 thru spring of 1979 combined with obligatory visits to see the family

NuttBoxer says

We lived on a lake for four years, and I don't remember having any crazy mosquito problems.

Wind/breezes off the lake do nothing for Deer Flies, plus those suckers can break skin right through a sweatshirt . Mosquitos will appear like magic as soon as you get a few feet into the woods.

Go into the woods in May and June become a moving smorgasbord

NuttBoxer says

I did look at Michigan as the COL is among lowest in the country, but pay is also very low.

Look at the property taxes and then the utility rates, the Marquette area is a great example of not being able to afford the electricity, double that if on the UPPCO system.

NuttBoxer says

The Lakes prevent the 100% humidity that blankets the Midwest

Not spent any time in Lorain, Cleveland, Gary, Chicago now huh ?

Real gems round about late August early September - almost like New Orleans while the stupid lasts and Lake Erie and Ontario are worst.

Southern Lake Michigan comes in third.

@NuttBoxer

Before asking here are my post Michigan travels and places of residence/work.

New York City & Long Island 1971 - 1975

Great Lakes / St. Lawrence Seaway 1975 - 1979

Louisiana 1979 - 1990: Bought and Sold Two Houses

South Central Pennsylvania 1990 - 1995: Bought and Sold Two Houses

California 1995 - 2014: Bought 1995, Sold Spring of 2006 - then rented. Neighbors thought I was crazy when I sold because prices only go up

Present Location 2014 - to now: Bought August of 2014

Kakistocracy says

No - it is boring, depressive and a pain in the ass to deal with. Overcast constantly - a day with sunshine is a rare commodity. Big pain in the ass

You're conflating two things, the dense snowfall, and the clouds. I guess the snow wouldn't be as fun if I still lived there, my memories are as a kid in junior high/high school.

Kakistocracy says

Wind/breezes off the lake do nothing for Deer Flies, plus those suckers can break skin right through a sweatshirt . Mosquitos will appear like magic as soon as you get a few feet into the woods.

Go into the woods in May and June become a moving smorgasbord

I do remember deer flies. But I didn't hunt, guessing that's why I don't remember mosquitoes being bad. Lived there 7 years altogether, a few years in Grand Rapids as a kid.

Even the sky is rainbow gay.

NuttBoxer says

You're conflating two things, the dense snowfall, and the clouds.

Can not have one without the other and the prevailing wind like most places is from the west/northwest so even if it is not snowing, the clouds are forming and blowing across Lake Superior picking up more moisture and even it is does get frozen over - you still get the damn constant overcast.

Younger people are not as prone to getting into the gloom/depression but the shit gets to people after awhile - just like the Northwest. Grey skies and more grey skies.

The lake is still warmer even at 30 some degrees then the air temperature - great for making clouds/snow.

The Lower Peninsula is not as bad by any means unless you get up into the Traverse City area northward to the straits.

Grand Rapids etc. is like going to the deep south in April onwards compared to the Upper Peninsula. Spring arrives weeks ahead of the U.P. - short sleeve shirt weather there while up north still Puffer Jacket season.

Yeah I know.

I like that sort of thing. But kids would probably never visit. Young people don’t like that sort of life much.

CBOEtrader says

FortWayneIndiana says

Was thinking of going back to Indiana, but couldn't convince the Mrs.

Tbf, Indiana is as boring as a state can get. Low cost of living though sure. You can pick up a corn field farmhouse for peanuts

NuttBoxer says

I accepted a job in Phoenix, partly for the 30% decrease in cost-of-living, partly to stay within a drive-able distance of friends and relatives in San Diego.

Debt is Slavery!

30% decrease? Did you live in Bakersfield or Fresno?

Kakistocracy says

Younger people are not as prone to getting into the gloom/depression but the shit gets to people after awhile - just like the Northwest. Grey skies and more grey skies.

I do remember the clouds getting to me, even as a kid. Still love Michigan as a great place to live, at least the areas I lived in.

Tarantula says

My apologies, I'm clearly not as well versed in the various forms and sources of welfare as are you ;)

Too bad, you could have gotten something for your taxes besides a dick up your ass.

Tarantula says

I'm curious how an astute and boot-strapping right-wing Trump supporting conservative

.. But you are educated in the adult WWF, false dichotomy, hate anyone who doesn't agree with you propaganda. Trump is a warmongering, Wall Street insider who was smart enough to see an angle into the White House. Obama was warmongering Wall Street insider who did the same. You, are an ignorant bigot who has wasted his life defending one, and hating the other, but they both took turns fucking you.

Tarantula says

Personally, I'd be embarrassed and ashamed to be on welfare.

Bullshit. Someone as low-brow as you has no shame. Or maybe you do? You don't post under your original account here anymore, I wonder why not..?

Pussy.

BayArea says

30% decrease? Did you live in Bakersfield or Fresno?

San Diego

Appreciate the story NuttBoxer keep it up!

NuttBoxer says

. But you are educated in the adult WWF, false dichotomy, hate anyone who doesn't agree with you propaganda. Trump is a warmongering, Wall Street insider who was smart enough to see an angle into the White House. Obama was warmongering Wall Street insider who did the same. You, are an ignorant bigot who has wasted his life defending one, and hating the other, but they both took turns fucking you.

Man, that was like a downgrade of his entire family!

MrMagic says

I believe he's outside of Atlanta, GA

Down with the Rednecks. Talk about a culture shock when leaving CA, right?

The biggest culture shock was the workplace. People actually speak their mind down here without caring about stepping on someone else's toes. It's nice.

The other thing, people down here joke about skin color (my co-workers are about 50% black, 10% latino). Reality is, no one really cares what color you are - just the media - who try to race bait everyone.

joshuatrio says

MrMagic says

I believe he's outside of Atlanta, GA

Down with the Rednecks. Talk about a culture shock when leaving CA, right?

The biggest culture shock was the workplace. People actually speak their mind down here without caring about stepping on someone else's toes. It's nice.

The other thing, people down here joke about skin color (my co-workers are about 50% black, 10% latino). Reality is, no one really cares what color you are - just the media - who try to race bait everyone.

Democrats have nothing to offer besides genitals and melanin. Anytime they try to debate on policy, you get AOC type suggestions and everyone cringes or laughs.

joshuatrio says

no one really cares what color you are

Au Contraire - one of many similar comments personally heard while facilitating training sessions in the greater Conyers area

I might have to work with "them" but I don't have to break bread with "them"

I might have to be nice to "them" at work but I don't have to spend time with "them" outside of work

The Old South has not died - it is just better hidden from view most of the time

Americans are relocating more frequently than before, here's why. On average, 47 million U.S. residents moved each year from 2012 through 2016

As the housing market continues to slow down across the country, many homeowners are relocating to housing markets that better suit their financial needs.

In fact, according to NerdWallet’s Home Buyer Survey an average 47 million U.S. residents moved each year from 2012 to 2016.

And among the 25 metros analyzed in the report, all but Chicago and New York posted a net resident increase from migration.

“There are a lot of factors to consider when trying to understand why people move to a new city, and why some from abroad look to make the United States their new home,” NerdWallet Expert Holden Lewis said. “While some of those reasons might seem obvious, like a lower cost of living or relocation for a new job, some factors may be less tied to finances, like wanting to live closer to family or in a more culturally diverse city.”

That being said, NerdWallet’s report indicates the most common factor behind homeowner migration is the request of a housing upgrade.

“More than one-third of people who had recently moved said they wanted a larger or better-quality home, according to the 2017 American Housing Survey by the Census Bureau,” NerdWallet writes. “Such upgrades don’t typically require big moves — heading down the street or into another neighborhood is often enough. But some may seek more dramatic changes and move to another state.”

For those migrating out of state, NerdWallet’s data points to affordability as the second biggest motivation for relocation.

“Even though upgrading is the most common reason people move, according to the American Housing Survey, 18% of recent movers say they left their prior residence to reduce housing costs,” NerdWallet writes.

So, what markets are these homeowners relocating to? Well, according to the analysis, Tampa and Phoenix.

These housing markets had the highest share of out-of-state new homeowners, sitting at a whopping 41%. This total even exceeds the national average of 32%.

“Often the cities that attract the most newcomers are the same places where people are forced to compete for living space,” Lewis said. “In these growing metros, if construction of affordable housing doesn’t keep pace with population growth, then rents and home prices will rise.”

And Lewis is right, as Nerdwallet revealed homeownership costs have priced out many of out-of-state newcomers, resulting in 68% settling into their new housing markets as renters.

NOTE: NerdWallet’s Home Buyer survey is based on data collected from The Harris Poll, which features the responses of 2,029 U.S. adults ranging from January 16th through 18th.

https://www.housingwire.com/articles/48687-americans-are-relocating-more-frequently-than-before-heres-why

I look at what happens to some of the old people.. They end up kicked into assisted living, etc. by family & company, etc. Thus, I continually downsize out of bigger into smaller places that fit my needs. Retirement communities are expanding is my guess.

Personally I'd rather migrate right the hell out of here to a country where people are valued.

Some people just move because they are chronically agitated and annoyed where they already live and think that the 'adventure' of moving will change things, until they become agitated and annoyed in their new environment.

After about a month here I've already decided I'm never going back. The one thing I didn't account for here is how much less stressful life is. When I go to the store, I don't have people constantly on top of me. There's more parking. The commute is at least five miles further than what I had in San Diego, but it takes me the same amount of time. My neighborhood is super quite, everyone is friendly, I have a yard, at least 500 more square feet, two car garage, and a pool for $300 less a month than what I paid for a 2/2 condo. And I can realistically buy a house here without going into debt for the rest of my life.

Oh yeah, and I already got my daughter into a charter that is VASTLY superior to the one she attends in San Diego.

Those people you talk about don't come from California. Californians have legitimate reason to leave.

NuttBoxer says

 

After about a month here I've already decided I'm never going back. The one thing I didn't account for here is how much less stressful life is. When I go to the store, I don't have people constantly on top of me. There's more parking. The commute is at least five miles further than what I had in San Diego, but it takes me the same amount of time. My neighborhood is super quite, everyone is friendly, I have a yard, at least 500 more square feet, two car garage, and a pool for $300 less a month than what I paid for a 2/2 condo. And I can realistically buy a house here without going into debt for the rest of my life.

Sounds pretty identical to our story.

Glad the move has worked out for you guys!

Are you in Texas?

NuttBoxer says

After about a month here I've already decided I'm never going back. The one thing I didn't account for here is how much less stressful life is. When I go to the store, I don't have people constantly on top of me. There's more parking. The commute is at least five miles further than what I had in San Diego, but it takes me the same amount of time. My neighborhood is super quite, everyone is friendly, I have a yard, at least 500 more square feet, two car garage, and a pool for $300 less a month than what I paid for a 2/2 condo. And I can realistically buy a house here without going into debt for the rest of my life.

Oh yeah, and I already got my daughter into a charter that is VASTLY superior to the one she attends in San Diego.

Those people you talk about don't come from California. Californians have legitimate reason to leave.

FortWayneIndiana says

Are you in Texas?

Arizona. Thought about Texas, but the 3 day trip to visit family in California was a deal breaker.

Someone asked above.

The answer is Scottsdale over SD, no question

By the way, thanks for sharing your story.

My wife and I have tossed around the idea of leaving Silicon Valley for quite a while.

Unless you got into housing at the right time, why compete so hard for so little?

everything says

Retirement communities are expanding is my guess.

Rent before buying in a 55 and over place - a cautionary warning, I did not buy in one of them and glad I didn't.

Ceffer says

Some people just move because they are chronically agitated and annoyed where they already live and think that the 'adventure' of moving will change things, until they become agitated and annoyed in their new environment.

Also referred to as a "geographic" in 12 step programs. Doesn't work for most of those that try it since the underlying problems travel with them.

NuttBoxer says

but the 3 day trip to visit family in California was a deal breaker

That would seem to be an incentive in a lot of cases - actually a 4-5 hour plane trip removed is far better and you just can't put a price on a 12 hour plus plane trip, different day and time zone..

You can always return to SD to vote there. Even citizens of Mexico can vote in California.

willywonka says

You can always return to SD to vote there. Even citizens of Mexico can vote in California.

Or put voting in your Will. Dems like to "mine" the posthumous vote.

BayArea says

My wife and I have tossed around the idea of leaving Silicon Valley for quite a while.

Is the Bay Area your home town area? (ie, where you grew up?)

B.A.C.A.H. says

BayArea says

My wife and I have tossed around the idea of leaving Silicon Valley for quite a while.

Is the Bay Area your home town area? (ie, where you grew up?)

Yes, grew up in the East Bay

1 hour of Classic San Fran Freako rant

www.youtube.com/embed/B3BpkRa2Ubg

You got to do what makes financial sense for you. I feel like CA has gone from a family friendly place, to just a place everyone trashes. bums, needles, mentally ill parades (lgbt, trannies, and other horseshit), illegals, and problems such shortage of housing and other basic needs which probably stems from insane inflow of illegals that the system fails to keep up with.

I can't fault anyone for leaving CA, like I can't fault anyone for wanting to get the fuck out of Detroit.

California still has really incredible natural beauty in spite of everything.

Maybe after all the liberals have died out from feminism, it will once again become a good place to raise a family and stay long term.