patrick.net

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/05/15/we-could-open-up-again-and-forget-the-whole-thing/

It seems to me that every journalist who avoided or failed the high school stories about science without math course has now decided they are expert epidemiologists. I have read asinine facts like even on single virus can infect you. Maybe in a wild scenario, but that is not how viral load of infection works. Thy publish meaningless terrifying articles to stir up more fear and urge (demand) everyone be socially responsible. OH, and wear that totally ineffective mask.

Also in SF they "want to see less than 6.3 infections per day for a sustained period" to call off lockdown measures?! WTF, in a county of 1MM at least 10 people catch a cold every day, esp. outside of the summer months, no?! That would only be 3650 colds per year in 1MM people, so WTF if they test the shit out of everyone they will never get below 10 for a relatively contagious virus until herd immunity is reached which can take another couple months. Imbeciles! and! deliberate! leftoid! asshole! dictators! hellbent on destroying the Trump economy and infringing on people civl liberties. Open up now!

Yes, cancer deaths, pneumonia deaths, deaths from the flu, and deaths from heart issues are all down and can be attributed to blindly ascribing Covid as the cause of death.

I don't know what the decline in deaths due to medical errors can be attributed to, however.

Misc says

Yes, cancer deaths, pneumonia deaths, deaths from the flu, and deaths from heart issues are all down and can be attributed to blindly ascribing Covid as the cause of death.

Interesting. Would you please share source(s) on this ?

I have heard that hospitals (which are in trouble finacially these days) are incentivised to lable deaths as Covid related.

logic says

WookieMan says

Patrick says

Excess deaths are still well below 80,000.

Substantially below.

Guess what? I'm saving 15% on my auto insurance. No, it's not because I switched to Geico. It's because auto accidents are down and hence auto accident deaths are down. I'm with a great insurance company that refunded me money for the fact that claims are down.

Did either of you ever stop to think that maybe this is why we are not over a baseline by 80k deaths?

I think your attempt at sarcasm/humor failed here unfortunately. Either way I have verifiable proof that deaths are being categorized falsely. Again, no one has to believe me, but it's fact at this point and it's undeniable. My sources are associated with every political leaning. There's no bias. Legitimate deaths, 100% caused by COVID are easily under 10K. Might be under 5K.

.

I'd like to know more about the life cycle of the virus and its mutation. The WHO and/or CDC have had about 6 months to study this virus and by now I would hope they could answer these questions.

Does it remain in an asymptomatic host for many weeks or months before it dies or continuously mutates to another strain ?

Is it only transmitted via "respiratory droplet" ?

Can wearing a mask significantly reduce the transmission even if with 6 feet such as sitting next to someone on a Greyhound bus or in a Southwest Airline passenger plane ?

Can it survive on warm surfaces or when exposed to sunlight or certain type of lighting ?

Can it surface if Lysol disinfectant or hydrogen peroxide vapor (HPV) is sprayed on it ?

.

logic says

Did either of you ever stop to think that maybe this is why we are not over a baseline by 80k deaths?

Just wait until the trailing effect of people NOT getting screened for cancer, heart issues, etc. is felt over the next year.

Somebody who was Stage I/II of some Cancer that was 90% reversible in March delays their screening until August... and finds themselves with Stage III and only a 40% chance now. Now multiply this by thousands.

For those who delayed that EKG or Blood Panel 6 months, may stroke out or massive heart attack before they ever get it now. Multiply that by thousands as well. Had they gone in March and got bypass surgery or simply Blood Pressure Meds, they may have lived another decade, maybe decades plural.

I'd put the over counting at about 20k for the US as a whole. This is based off the differences between the death rate between Germany (who is supposed to be only counting those where the Death is Covid only) and the US death rate where there have been stories about counting it a Covid death if it was just present. I get this off Worldometers. Here's a link for a state that's come clean about its over-reporting Covid deaths the percentage between old and new figures are roughly the same as the Worldometer figures.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/texas-cases-of-covid-19-increasing-by-thousands-since-reopening/ar-BB14b61B?ocid=msedgdhp

"t's hard to imagine a country wide conspiracy to inflate Covid deaths." Agreed. But a wide spread mind-set that COVID is unusually deadly will be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Maybe it is just me, but, I find the unanimity of most of the press that we are experiencing an apocalypse, and know it is so because-science!, when the predictions based on alleged cold hard absolutely true facts keep changing and are later shown to have been based on shaky assumptions an models unsettling.I also find it insufficient basis to force me to surrender my basic rights and agree to be treated like a naughty simple-minded child.

logic says

Without proof I don't believe you, you say you have verifiable proof then why not share it?

What the fuck do you want me to do? Record these people saying they've witnessed it on multiple occasions and post it here on patnet? That they've worked on these patients and know the actual cause of death?

Friendship is over once it's grabbed from here and posted everywhere else. Potential loss of employment. I not trying to convince anyone here, just stating that I know people that said the practice is 100% occurring in their hospitals. There's no argument to be had here, it is fact. My wife gets bitched at running without a mask for fucks sake, you think people are going to want to be on audio or video posted here? Then it goes to social media and is all over the place. This is the only way I can share it, first hand knowledge of it happening.

logic says

What you are overlooking is that your state has more deaths than California with a 1/4 th the population. What is up with that? Maybe there is some BS going on in your state but that doesn't mean it is happening in all States. Time will tell.

Where did I say every single state in the country or even hospital was doing it? It's not a conspiracy. As long docs are trying to keep people alive and doing their duty, putting the cause of death as COVID isn't a crime if they had it when they passed. If someone has pancreatic cancer for 2 years and dies having obtained COVID, the cause of death should be the cancer 10 out of 10 times. This is not what is happening in many areas. Not all areas, many.

I think even Dr. Faucci admitted the deaths for those under 60 is the same as a typical flu season.

They're still not sure if there was a single documented Child-to-Parent transmission of COVID, ever.

This was a gross overreaction.

.

Colorado Governor states CDC is over counting number of COVID-19 deaths. Colorado previously had reported 1,150 people died from COVID-19, but late Friday, officials changed that number to 878.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/colorado-gov-pushes-back-against-cdcs-coronavirus-death-counts

.

The Times found 14 states where more than half of total deaths occurred in facilities for the elderly. It was 55 percent in Connecticut, 57 percent in Colorado, North Carolina and Kentucky, 58 percent in Virginia, 59 percent in Massachusetts, 61 percent in Delaware, 66 percent in Pennsylvania, 73 percent in Rhode Island and 80 percent in West Virginia and Minnesota.

The states with the most nursing-home deaths, New York and New Jersey, didn’t make the list because of so many other deaths, yet more than 10,000 people died in their facilities. The 5,500 nursing-home deaths in New York are more than the total deaths in all other states except New Jersey.

https://nypost.com/2020/05/16/blame-governors-for-coronavirus-deaths-in-nursing-homes-goodwin/?utm_source=twitter_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons

Posted for a reader:

assuming that the effective death rate for those contracting COVID is 1.3% (5 times the seasonal flu rate) of the population, as reported as numerous websites, this means that even those getting it fall into a range of infirmities between asymptomatic and fatal, and that 98.3 percent survive it. This is an extremely high survival rate for a "pandemic"

Moreover, only a small proportion of Americans get it to begin with, and I don't really know reliable data for calculating what the likelihood is for even getting it

I do not think it is a hoax, and I think that the sensationalistic press (as opposed to liberal press), or billionaires with large short positions, and bureaucrats with a desire to enhance their status and receive more funding for their programs, and more corporations who have an interest to learn to what degree they can order customers around in their stores, or Democratic Party strategists seeking to embarass Trump, have an interest in promoting the narrative of pending doom and disaster.

My view, very bluntly stated, is that I would rather have /4 Million/ Americans die from it (the outcome if it adhered to this average) that one dolphin or whale be strangled by inhaling a surgical mask or the non-reusable bag from Smart & Final. It would be OK if I were one of them.

Humans have grossly overpopulated the earth, and a range of disastrous consequences are going to follow, from the consequences of consumer consumption, insane energy consumption, and a host of other behaviors humanity needs to radically reverse. COVID is Mother Nature's first gentle warning. Much worse things are coming down the pike.

I know what you don't believe this, but there is no point in getting into a big back-and-forth about it.

As I said, I'm headed for Idaho, where I will become a potato and hide in the soil (wink)

The media has been an absolute abomination during the Covid “pandemic”.

If there’s one thing that happens as a result, I hope that the legacy media goes under. Those assholes need to be out of business and their staff needs to find a new line of work.

FuckTheMainstreamMedia says

Those assholes need to be out of business and their staff needs to find a new line of work.

I'm convinced that they are not in business at all anymore.

They can lose as much money as they like, and will simply get funded more.

The mainstream media exists only as a political tool now, funded by billionaires like Bezos.

Their function is about the same as Pravda's used to be.

ThreeBays says

As if Patrick actually had a model and not a baseless theory that C19 is no worse than a bad flu.

Is COVID tracked the same way the Flu is? Or are the standards of measurement and reporting different?

Thanks.

logic says

Show the verifiable proof. But you don't have verifiable proof which was the point of my comment.

🤷‍♂️ Reading? I have the proof. I'm not going to jeopardize people's careers that gave me the information. I've said this before (2nd time now). You don't have to believe me, clearly you don't. That's fine. I'm 100% correct, so keep arguing about something you don't know about.

logic says

Or what if the doctor thought the patient would have lived another year or was about to declare remission?

https://www.cancer.net/cancer-types/pancreatic-cancer/statistics
You have a better chance of actually dying from COVID alone, than survive a pancreatic cancer diagnosis. 47k die from it each year. Also, not sure how auto accidents got into this. Never made the conspiracy theory claim auto accidents and gun deaths are being labeled COVID. I'm talking chronic conditions. I'm sure there's no chance any of these specific cancer deaths were labeled COVID, like zero chance. Right? Sorry I cannot trash people's lives with evidence to make you happy, but you've also presented zero evidence to counter my claims. If you're so sure deaths are being accurately recorded, prove it....

logic says

WookieMan says

What the fuck do you want me to do?

Show the verifiable proof. But you don't have verifiable proof which was the point of my comment. You have hearsay at best. What you most certainly don't have is any proof that is verifiable.

If you severely restrict people's civil liberties and pursuit of happiness in a possibly unconstitutional way then the burden is on you to exactly detail and lay out the stats comparing all the other causes of death, incl. those that will be missed due to people not going to the hospital or MD now the best you can and it better shows in an ironclad way that Covid-19 deaths would largely surpass all these other causes of death if we did nothing. We all know the truth is the opposite, that the lockdowns only marginally changed death statistics, so I consider this akin to a coup or at least unconstitutional power grab.

Patrick says

The mainstream media exists only as a political tool now, funded by billionaires like Bezos.

And funded by the CIA, Big Pharma, Health Insurance, the Military Industrial Complex, and large corporations like Monsanto. They “sell ads” to these entities which is why we have to watch a meaningless ad from Monsanto when we have zero chance of ever buying their seed in bulk. Monsanto wants the news Corp to say favorable things or at least spin the news to keep heat off them, and the ad is their way of paying for it.

marcus says

Misc says

Yes, cancer deaths, pneumonia deaths, deaths from the flu, and deaths from heart issues are all down and can be attributed to blindly ascribing Covid as the cause of death.

Interesting. Would you please share source(s) on this ?

www.youtube.com/embed/K8E_zMLCRNg

logic says

mell says

If you severely restrict people's civil liberties and pursuit of happiness in a possibly unconstitutional way then the burden is on you to exactly detail and lay out the stats comparing all the other causes of death,

Lol, "you", who? Me? How the fuck am I doing that. Please tell me. I'm not the president of the United States, I'm not the one failing to bring this country together. Obama, a black man, did that 17% better than Trump.

If people say they have "verifiable proof" either they have it or they don't. The key word is verifiable. If I can't verify it how is it verifiable. Words matter. Like I said I don't care that much just calling people out on their bullshit. It will be interesting to look back in a year and look at how the numbers worked out but until then, I call bullshit unless anyone wants to provide better proof than subtracting a baseline. Show me the num...

The people who take away civil rights need to have verifiable proof but they don't. Sure you can ask for proof from the other side but it's not their burden as they're not infringing on millions of people and their livelihoods.

thomasdong1776 says

logic says

It will be interesting to look back in a year and look at how the numbers worked out

Of course all the PatNetters who now insist the virus is little more than a cold and that the mortality numbers are made up to make Trump look bad will all change their screen names then so they can't be held accountable for their bullshit.

Don't be daft you can do the math already. Most models agree that by now around 20%-25% have been exposed, we're only testing those with symptoms and severe cases. Of course you will have a lot of deaths with a new highly contagious virus where there's no vaccine. But the mortality rate is similar to that one of the flu, pretty much all experts agree on this by now. If you count flu deaths 24/7 365 days per year you get close to a 100k every year as well.

Nobody has said the virus is a hoax, or that it's not a bad situation, but it's not unprecedented and we have never reacted like this before to a bad flu pandemic, not in 2018, not in 2009, not in 1969. and the lives of people lost not being able to go to the hospital or too scared to do so or visit their MD and adding in those dying from suicide, depression, drug use due to grim economic outlook will by far surpass the deaths from Covid-19 in years to come. It's already happening all over the place, heart disease or cancer caught too late. You can ask any MD who you're friends with and they will tell you off the record that it's been happening, their hospitals are empty and that this situation is worse than Covid-19.

logic says

Show me the numbers otherwise it's not truth it's bullshit.

We were told we had to shut down and flatten the curve or millions would die. We shut down, flattened the curve, and < 100k died. There is your numbers.

Time to open up.

That proves my point nobody said it's a hoax. The virus will disappear one day that's a fact, that day may be soon or far out but the curves are already massively going down. The coverage it has gotten certainly is a hoax perpetrated by the Demonrats and CNNMSNPC. No doubt about it if you compare it to the coverage of past flu pandemics/epidemics.

Even if the press are a bunch of bohemian bourgeois who consider themselves international citizens of the world and don't give two shits about the USA beyond a history of slavery?

I think half a century of managing the press makes him qualified.

The media hated Nixon, Reagan, dubya too. The only republican they tolerated was CIA NWO operative elder Bush, and even then they preferred Clinton by a mile.

Covid is being overcounted, as there is a fiscal and political incentive to do so.

If we used German standards, the death rate would be at least half of what it is.

It's also interesting that ultimate power seems to change with the subject. Not more than a few weeks ago, that vaunted press was insisting POTUS couldn't force states to open.

Yet, it's also trying to keep Trump as the most responsible, ridiculously.

Can't have it both ways.

If the govenors are the primary actors, then Cuomo bears a huge chunk of responsibility and has to explain why his death rate are far higher than Florida or Texas.

logic says

Time to place the blame squarely where it should be, on the president.

What blame specifically?

Should Trump be blamed that New York and New Jersey were shit shows responsible for most of the country's coronavirus deaths by shutting down too late, refusing to sanitize the subways until last week and sending Covid patients back into nursing homes?

logic says

Last I checked he was the president and at the beginning he denied there was a problem, now some how that's new York's fault?

Trump and the Federal Government are responsible for cleaning New York subway cars?

If only Trump could have been more authoritarian and was able to quarantine America's own wet market back in February?

*"New York Gov. Cuomo says Trump has no authority to impose quarantine: ‘It would be illegal’"*
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/28/ny-gov-cuomo-says-trump-has-no-authority-to-impose-quarantine.html

Just stop guys. You're getting trolled. It's an airborne virus, anyone blaming it on any individual is slightly retarded. The politics came out and it's obvious. I'd stop wasting time.

jazz_music says

And don’t forget Trump made Obama show a birth certificate yet Trump doesn’t show his tax filing.

Being POTUS has requirements. None of which have ever involved tax returns. Not sure your point.

logic says

Unfortunately I won't be taking some random individuals word for it. Got any links Marcus and I would love to see them.

Merry Xmas:

At the same time, the state’s coroners — tasked with investigating suspicious deaths — have grown increasingly frustrated by the Health Department’s reluctance to seek their help.

Some have said the department’s numbers did not match what coroners were seeing. Those concerns caught the attention of State Sen. Judy Ward (R., Blair), who is advocating for a bill that would give coroners a bigger role in the crisis.

“There’s a discrepancy in the numbers,” Charles E. Kiessling Jr., president of the Pennsylvania Coroners Association and coroner in Lycoming County, said Thursday. “I’m not saying there’s something going on.... I’m not a conspiracy theory guy. But accuracy is important.”

It’s a matter of public safety, Kiessling said.

The confusion began Sunday, when Pennsylvania raised its coronavirus death toll to 1,112 — an increase of 276 overnight. On Tuesday, the department reported another spike, from 1,204 to 1,564 deaths.

In both cases, Levine said the surges reflected deaths that occurred days, even weeks, in the past.

“These deaths did not happen overnight,” Levine said Sunday.

The jump that day, first blamed on a computer glitch, was explained as a “reconciliation” of multiple reporting systems and the “culmination of that data-validating effort.” Levine also said the “significant increase” included “probable positive” COVID-19 deaths, as well as deaths confirmed with a test.

On Tuesday, Levine reported 300 probable deaths in the day’s count but appeared to indicate the situation was new.

“We will now be reporting probable deaths related to COVID-19 in addition to confirmed deaths,” she said.

That same day, department spokesperson Nate Wardle told Spotlight PA some probable deaths had been included in the count for at least a week or maybe longer.

Then, on Wednesday, Wardle backtracked, saying that although probable deaths had been added to the reporting systems as of April 13, the day before federal guidance changed, they weren’t included in the state’s official count until Tuesday.

https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/spl/pennsylvania-death-count-changes-confusion-coroanvirus-20200423.html

No surprise here. Like "Dr" (PhD in Social Policy) Ferrer of LA, the Public Health departments are full of Social (Justice) Workers and Bureaucrats with bupkiss actual medical or science credentials.

Ramp up those numbers!

Idiots don't see it's gonna backfire right on them.

What's funny is that some on this board are mad at "Far Right Wingers"

@WookieMan was one of the most moderate members of the Forum. Now it's pretty clear he's not voting Blue this year.

Was it the Pat.net right wingers, or the Dem-Media malarky?

socal2 says

*"New York Gov. Cuomo says Trump has no authority to impose quarantine: ‘It would be illegal’"*
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/28/ny-gov-cuomo-says-trump-has-no-authority-to-impose-quarantine.html

Trump has no authority here! I am in Command!

It's all Trump's Fault!

logic says

A great leader wouldn't be having these problems. Trump might have a few of these qualities but not enough to be considered a great leader. Check out #20.
He definitely lacks that.

I don't think you're getting my point.

You can't claim one day that all the authority rests with the Governors, then a few days later put all the blame on the President.

Well, you can, but it looks ridiculous.

That list above is rubbish. You simply have to be both Fox and Lion. Many leaders have no humility, for example, and pretty much almost all leaders in history would have laughed at Transparency and said you need just the opposite - Obfuscation.

logic says

Yet Obama was always at fault 😂 sad

Agreed! He was the worse fucking president ever. He never prosecuted the bankers and ran that insurance scam.

Severe sufferers of TDS think that if you don't hate Trump you support everything he does. Take a pill.

logic says

Lol, @wookieman who is blaming an airborne virus on an individual? Do you know what a straw man argument is?

Interesting, I never referenced you. Never said the word you or used your username in my comment. Why would you think it was directed at you? I'm also not sure why you're arguing about arguments. Seems silly.

logic says

logic says

Lol, @wookieman who is blaming an airborne virus on an individual? Do you know what a straw man argument is?

Interesting, I never referenced you. Never said the word you or used your username in my comment. Why would you think it was directed at you? I'm also not sure why you're arguing about arguments. Seems silly.

I'm a bit confused. Did you not say someone was trolling? One who is arguing that Trump started the virus? Sorry if I misunderstood this.

You called out my username. You asked a question that was clearly directed at my comment. Why? If you didn't think it was about you, why respond with my username? Why respond at all? Why do you need or want to know who it was directed at? We're not supposed to talk about other users here, which I didn't.

There are easily a handful of people in this thread that disagree with my view on this virus and what I'm saying. It's cute that you assume I was talking about you. Maybe I meant multiple people. Maybe I meant people in general that troll this topic, but not on this board/forum. I'm not going to directly call a user of this forum a troll. Not taking the bait.

You seem to be upset that maybe, just maybe we're right that COVID deaths are being over reported. NoCoup gave you a link. You then shifted to Trump being a shit leader and not addressing actual evidence that it's being categorized poorly or intentionally reported wrong. We can talk about "straw man" all day instead of just acknowledging the actual fact COVID deaths aren't accurate.

We somehow have 20X's the deaths of China with a 1/4 of the population. We're 3X's higher than the nearest country in overall deaths. Either the rest of the world is bull shitting stats or we are. We are the outlier in the data by a long shot. It's strange to see people bash their own government so hard, yet trust the data that it puts out on this virus. Strange, isn't it?

Onvacation says

Severe sufferers of TDS think that if you don't hate Trump you support everything he does. Take a pill.

Good insight.

Yes, somehow they think it's binary and have no room for subtlety.