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Flatten the Curve

By Onvacation follow Onvacation   2020 Jul 15, 3:31am 2,431 views   590 comments   watch   nsfw   quote   share    



As the numbers of cases, hospitalizations, and deaths surge to record levels in multiple epicenters, local and state officials are struggling with whether and how much to reverse the rollback of restrictions on individuals and businesses. For example, following a gradual reopening over about a month, on Monday, California Gov. Gavin Newsom announced the reintroduction of statewide restrictions that would again shut down bars, all indoor dining, family entertainment, zoos and museums following a surge in coronavirus cases. The governors of Florida, Texas, and Arizona, all now epicenters of infection, have also slowed or reversed reopening, but their actions have been tepid. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is even insisting on opening schools in the face of record-high numbers of infections.

These officials would do well to recall the observation of The Great One. No, not Dr. Tony Fauci of the National Institutes of Health—the other one, hockey legend Wayne Gretzky, who once explained, “I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been.”

Anticipating what’s coming is important in confronting an infectious disease, especially one whose dynamics are what many infectious disease experts consider their worst nightmare. COVID-19 is highly infectious, has a lengthy incubation period (during which asymptomatic infected persons can unwittingly shed virus and infect other people), and causes serious, sometimes fatal illness.

Those unusual characteristics of the SARS-CoV-2 virus, which causes COVID-19, and the idiosyncrasies and spectrum of presentations of the illness—from pulmonary symptoms (including pneumonia and pulmonary fibrosis) to a range of non-respiratory manifestations, (including loss of sense of smell or taste, confusion and cognitive impairments, fainting, sudden muscle weakness or paralysis, seizures, ischemic strokes, kidney damage, and, rarely, a severe pediatric inflammatory syndrome) mean that we are on a steep learning curve.

The problem is: if we react too slowly to changing circumstances, we can fall off a metaphorical cliff.

There’s an old brain teaser that perfectly illustrates this point. Consider a pond of a certain size, on which there is a single lily pad. This particular species of lily pad reproduces and duplicates itself once a day, so that on day 2, you have two lily pads. On day 3, you have four; on day 4, you have eight; and so on. Here’s the teaser: if it takes the lily pads 48 days to cover the pond completely, how long will it take for the pond to be covered halfway?

The answer? 47 days. In just 24 hours, between day 47 and day 48, the lily pads would double in size and overtake the pond. Moreover, on day 40, the pond would still appear to be relatively clear; just eight days from the pond being completely covered, you’d hardly know the lily pads were there.

If the same thing happens with a virulent and highly contagious infectious agent, like the SARS-CoV-2 virus, you don’t know you’re in trouble until you wake up one morning to find that you’re overwhelmed. Like the lily pad example, the daily number of confirmed COVID-19 cases in the U.S. was 18,577 on June 15th—just three weeks later, on July 10th, the number had shot up to 66,281.

Dr. Anthony Fauci
Dr. Anthony Fauci

FLATTENING THE CURVE TO BEAT THE IMPENDING CLIFF

From early in the pandemic, the public health mantra worldwide has been: “flatten the curve.” That important concept, which was in vogue several months ago, seems largely forgotten today.

In the above graphic from the University of Michigan, the blue curve is the viral equivalent of the lily pads, suddenly covering the pond. It represents a large number of people (shown on the vertical axis) becoming infected over a short time (horizontal axis), and, in turn, overwhelming our health care system with people who need hospitalization, or even an Intensive Care Unit (ICU).

People won’t shop for non-essentials, fly, go to restaurants, theaters, and athletic events, or send their kids to school, when numbers of new cases are soaring.

If, however, political officials, individuals, and communities take steps to slow the virus’s spread, the cases of COVID-19 will stretch out across a more extended period, as depicted by the flatter, yellow curve. As long as the number of cases at any given time doesn’t bleed past the dotted line marking the capacity of our nation’s health care system, we’ll be able to accommodate everyone who is very sick.

Curve-flattening has fallen out of focus in recent months, in part because some political leaders reopened too aggressively and prematurely, basing policy on their constituents’ “pandemic fatigue,” instead of on the advice of epidemiologists and infectious disease experts.

But it’s still critical to avoid the pattern of the blue curve, not only to spare hospitals and ICUs—which are especially under stress in parts of Arizona, Florida, and Texas—but also so that we can continue the gradual reopening of the nation’s businesses and schools. Reopening relies on curve-flattening. As the NIH’s Dr. Tony Fauci says frequently, public health and economic considerations are not in opposition but are opposite sides of the same coin; we can’t fully restart and resume commerce until the pandemic is under some measure of control. People won’t shop for non-essentials, fly, go to restaurants, theaters, and athletic events, or send their kids to school, when numbers of new cases are soaring.

That means we need to start anticipating and stop playing catch-up—as the governors of Florida, Arizona, and Texas have been doing, relying on a combination of magical thinking, Happy Talk, and too-little-too-late remedies, instead of aggressive, evidence-based public health policies.

Arizona Governor Doug Ducey, for instance, has offered no strategy for blunting the spike in COVID-19 cases other than to keep repeating that there were enough hospital beds to treat those who fall ill. And yet, ICU beds and ventilators in use by suspected and confirmed COVID-19 patients in Arizona both hit new records on July 12th and were under stress, according to data reported by hospitals to the state.

On July 10th, a physicians group gathered outside Florida Governor DeSantis’s mansion in Tallahassee to urge him to issue an order mandating the use of face masks statewide, which arguably should have been done months ago. Masks have long been considered essential to slowing the spread of COVID-19, but, inexplicably, the Governor resisted. And only on July 10th did Texas Governor Greg Abbott finally mandate the wearing of face masks, and demand the prohibition of large gatherings and the closing of bars across the state.

Elected officials must heed Wayne Gretzky’s admonition and stay ahead of the coronavirus, in order to lower its rate of transmission. That’s the only way to slow the rise of new cases.

Evidence-based policies, such as requiring masks in public, prohibiting large indoor gatherings, and indoor dining at restaurants, are important. But as we’ve seen with California, even aggressive imposition of those kinds of strictures has not been sufficient—in large part because many people, especially younger ones, have failed to comply. As California allowed businesses and public places to reopen, bars, boardwalks, and beaches became crowded with large numbers of maskless patrons. It’s no wonder, then, that as of July 13th, hospitals in the state reported a 27.8% increase in hospitalized patients over the previous 14 days and a 19.9% increase in ICU patients over that same period. In fact, as a result of noncompliance, many local governments in the Golden State have had to coordinate with law enforcement agencies to issue citations and explore civil alternatives through code enforcement, environmental health, or other local government personnel.

Of course, the need for heightened consequences for noncompliance is unfortunate, but it will help to re-flatten the curve. That will spread out the demands on hospitals, which must have sufficient space, supplies, and healthy staff to care for all those who need hospital-level care—whether for COVID-19, a stroke, trauma, emergency surgery, or childbirth. It’s strong, but necessary, medicine—which possibly could have been avoided with more intense efforts to get the public to comply with wearing masks, social distancing, and frequent hand-washing.

If politicians properly understood their role in flattening the curve, they wouldn’t have to resort to policing and ticketing. They would instead launch a tsunami of public service announcements from all manner of dignitaries and celebrities, including prominent politicians, actors, rock stars, and athletes—maybe even The Great One himself—demonstrating how we can anticipate instead of falling behind the curve.

That non-coercive strategy could be a winner.


In this article:Coronavirus, Featured, large
Don't Miss:
For Coronavirus, the Name of the Game Is Minimizing the Probability of Infection.

Written By
Henry I. Miller, M.S., M.D.
Henry I. Miller, a physician and molecular biologist, is a Senior Fellow at the Pacific Research Institute. He was the founding director of the FDA’s Office of Biotechnology.


https://humanevents.com/2020/07/14/flattening-the-curve-is-still-the-right-answer/

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551   prodigy   ignore (0)   2020 Aug 4, 7:55am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

I think what is unknown is how much viral load one needs to pass on the virus.
Covid 19 is much more contagious than your average run of the mill virus.
The WHO is covering their ass by saying 'there is more study needed to determine if an asymptomatic person who never develops symptoms can still pass on the virus'
It is a NOVEL virus, so nothing is written in stone yet...

prodigy says
The problem is with people that may have high viral loads but never show any symptoms.
mell says
The only true fact is that nobody knows when someone is most contagious, but it is either once they show symptoms or just shortly before because you need a high viral load to show inflammatory symptoms and vice versa
552   prodigy   ignore (0)   2020 Aug 4, 8:14am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

Swedish mortality rate is way above average

PeopleUnited says
What Sweden does is working. No economic shutdown and comparable mortality.




553   socal2   ignore (1)   2020 Aug 4, 8:50am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

prodigy says
Swedish mortality rate is way above average


Yep - for now.

But alot of the world is getting a second wave now which will tighten the numbers.

Also, we have to factor in how much more harm lockdown countries have done to our populations in terms of postponing cancer/heart screenings that will manifest in more deaths in the coming months/years, increased alcoholism, increased drug use and suicide for people losing jobs and and being disconnected from loved ones and society. Let alone millions of kids not getting educated and being abused at home.

Many people seem pretend that lockdowns have no to little impact on our public health. I think we will be seeing negative ramifications for years to come. The BLM riots are just one of many ramifications.
554   prodigy   ignore (0)   2020 Aug 4, 9:12am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Agreed.
Angry jobless people with nothing to do. Protests are an outlet.
And as with any public protest, the minority of rioters take advantage of it.

socal2 says
I think we will be seeing negative ramifications for years to come. The BLM riots are just one of many ramifications.
555   mell   ignore (6)   2020 Aug 4, 9:38am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

The mortality rate mostly correlates with the average age of the population and the way deaths are counted (with vs of Covid).It's all roughly the same.
556   WookieMan   ignore (5)   2020 Aug 4, 10:02am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

prodigy says
And as with any public protest, the minority of rioters take advantage of it.

Minority of rioters? Lol. Haven't heard that one yet.
557   prodigy   ignore (0)   2020 Aug 4, 10:07am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Well one sees what one wants to see.
google the pictures.

WookieMan says
prodigy says
And as with any public protest, the minority of rioters take advantage of it.

Minority of rioters? Lol. Haven't heard that one yet.
558   WookieMan   ignore (5)   2020 Aug 4, 10:13am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

prodigy says
Well one sees what one wants to see.
google the pictures.

WookieMan says
prodigy says
And as with any public protest, the minority of rioters take advantage of it.

Minority of rioters? Lol. Haven't heard that one yet.

Rioters are rioters. There's no minority was the point. Public protests and rioters are completely different things. Rioters cannot be a minority of public protest. They are rioters.
559   prodigy   ignore (0)   2020 Aug 4, 10:22am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Seriously?
protests consist of peaceful people ( usually the majority ), and people that cause physical destruction of property and attack law enforcement ( usually the minority )
I know this. You know this. Your post is just disingenuous.

WookieMan says
Rioters are rioters. There's no minority was the point. Public protests and rioters are completely different things. Rioters cannot be a minority of public protest. They are rioters.
560   socal2   ignore (1)   2020 Aug 4, 10:52am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

prodigy says
Seriously?
protests consist of peaceful people ( usually the majority ), and people that cause physical destruction of property and attack law enforcement ( usually the minority )
I know this. You know this. Your post is just disingenuous


Talk about being disingenuous!

Only a small minority of cops are bad or racist.

Only an infinitesimally small percent of black people killed each year is done by cops.

So aren't all the "peaceful" protesters being disingenuous going around claiming that America has a systemic racism and police brutality problem? They may not be burning courthouses down or looting stores, but they are still propagating a monstrous lie about their country further dividing our country by race.

Isn't it disingenuous to claim the major reason why the African American community is so dysfunctional is due to cops and not generations of black boys running around with no fathers?
561   prodigy   ignore (0)   2020 Aug 4, 10:58am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Yes.
socal2 says
So aren't all the "peaceful" protesters being disingenuous going around claiming that America has a systemic racism and police brutality problem?
562   prodigy   ignore (0)   2020 Aug 4, 10:58am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Yes.
socal2 says
Only a small minority of cops are bad or racist.
563   prodigy   ignore (0)   2020 Aug 4, 10:59am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Yes.
socal2 says
Only an infinitesimally small percent of black people killed each year is done by cops.
564   prodigy   ignore (0)   2020 Aug 4, 10:59am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Yes.
socal2 says
Isn't it disingenuous to claim the major reason why the African American community is so dysfunctional is due to cops and not generations of black boys running around with no fathers?
565   prodigy   ignore (0)   2020 Aug 4, 11:00am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Yes.
prodigy says
Seriously?
protests consist of peaceful people ( usually the majority ), and people that cause physical destruction of property and attack law enforcement ( usually the minority )
I know this. You know this. Your post is just disingenuous.

WookieMan says
Rioters are rioters. There's no minority was the point. Public protests and rioters are completely different things. Rioters cannot be a minority of public protest. They are rioters.
566   prodigy   ignore (0)   2020 Aug 4, 11:00am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

All of the above are "YES".
567   Onvacation   ignore (6)   2020 Aug 4, 12:04pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

prodigy says
I think what is unknown is how much viral load one needs to pass on the virus.

Why do you think that?
prodigy says
Covid 19 is much more contagious than your average run of the mill virus.

How do you know?
prodigy says
The WHO is covering their ass by saying 'there is more study needed to determine if an asymptomatic person who never develops symptoms can still pass on the virus'

So they don't know.
prodigy says
It is a NOVEL virus, so nothing is written in stone yet...

So nobody knows.

What we do know is that we were told to lockdown for two weeks so we don't overwhelm the hospitals with THE MILLIONS THAT WERE GOING TO DIE! This has morphed into a new normal that benefits nobody but the owners.

It's clear that many people are willfully ignorant or scared stupid.
568   mell   ignore (6)   2020 Aug 4, 12:39pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

The observed R0 was sonewhat above the flu but way below measles.
569   prodigy   ignore (0)   2020 Aug 4, 12:52pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

N.O.V.E.L.
That 'load' is not documented anywhere, only 'assumed' from other covid types.

Onvacation says
prodigy says
I think what is unknown is how much viral load one needs to pass on the virus.

Why do you think that?
570   prodigy   ignore (0)   2020 Aug 4, 12:52pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

From every news source on the web.

Onvacation says
prodigy says
Covid 19 is much more contagious than your average run of the mill virus.

How do you know?
571   prodigy   ignore (0)   2020 Aug 4, 12:53pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Correct.
Onvacation says
prodigy says
The WHO is covering their ass by saying 'there is more study needed to determine if an asymptomatic person who never develops symptoms can still pass on the virus'

So they don't know.
572   prodigy   ignore (0)   2020 Aug 4, 12:54pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Opinions are being formed and updated as new data flows in on the N.O.V.E.L Corona Virus.

Onvacation says
prodigy says
It is a NOVEL virus, so nothing is written in stone yet...

So nobody knows.
573   prodigy   ignore (0)   2020 Aug 4, 12:55pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

And in the USA, millions did not die.
See? It worked...

Onvacation says
What we do know is that we were told to lockdown for two weeks so we don't overwhelm the hospitals with THE MILLIONS THAT WERE GOING TO DIE! This has morphed into a new normal that benefits nobody but the owners.

It's clear that many people are willfully ignorant or scared stupid.
574   socal2   ignore (1)   2020 Aug 4, 1:01pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

prodigy says
Opinions are being formed and updated as new data flows in on the N.O.V.E.L Corona Virus.


Yep - new data coming in all the time.

*Did Lockdown Work? An Economist’s Cross-Country Comparison - No*

Abstract
I explore the association between the severity of lockdown policies in the first half of 2020 and mortality rates. Using two indices from the Blavatnik Centre’s Covid 19 policy measures and comparing weekly mortality rates from 24 European countries in the first halves of 2017-2020, and addressing policy endogeneity in two different ways, I find no clear association between lockdown policies and mortality development.
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3665588&fbclid=IwAR0yByoqCyi5oI92qU6NMifBeJFpQLJV31IsOnGgeat0GIk9Hwdu2j0F7e8
575   prodigy   ignore (0)   2020 Aug 4, 1:12pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Agreed. From all corners.
socal2 says
Yep - new data coming in all the time.
576   Onvacation   ignore (6)   2020 Aug 4, 1:57pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

prodigy says
And in the USA, millions did not die.
See? It worked...

Onvacation says
What we do know is that we were told to lockdown for two weeks so we don't overwhelm the hospitals with THE MILLIONS THAT WERE GOING TO DIE! This has morphed into a new normal that benefits nobody but the owners.

It's clear that many people are willfully ignorant or scared stupid.

No. Millions WERE going to die. We shut down for two weeks to STOP HOSPITALS FROM BEING OVERWHELMED BY THE MILLIONS DYING AT THE SAME TIME. They called it "flattening the curve ". By coincidence it started right after TRUMPS FOREVER IMPEACHMENT.
577   PeopleUnited   ignore (1)   2020 Aug 4, 2:41pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

prodigy says
Swedish mortality rate is way above average

PeopleUnited says
What Sweden does is working. No economic shutdown and comparable mortality.






Be smarter. They don’t have the same level of testing we do. Because of the lack of lockdowns it is probable that a higher percentage of their population has gotten infected and never knew it, therefore the data is under reporting cases. What matters in the end is fatalities per 100,000 population.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

In that regard Sweden is already looking good only about 100 deaths per million population different than us, and remember their population has likely already been exposed to the virus whereas here in USA most people have NOT yet been exposed.
578   prodigy   ignore (0)   2020 Aug 4, 2:41pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

And they did not die.
See? It worked.

Onvacation says
prodigy says
And in the USA, millions did not die.
See? It worked...

Onvacation says
What we do know is that we were told to lockdown for two weeks so we don't overwhelm the hospitals with THE MILLIONS THAT WERE GOING TO DIE! This has morphed into a new normal that benefits nobody but the owners.

It's clear that many people are willfully ignorant or scared stupid.

No. Millions WERE going to die.
579   PeopleUnited   ignore (1)   2020 Aug 4, 2:42pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Onvacation says
prodigy says
And in the USA, millions did not die.
See? It worked...

Onvacation says
What we do know is that we were told to lockdown for two weeks so we don't overwhelm the hospitals with THE MILLIONS THAT WERE GOING TO DIE! This has morphed into a new normal that benefits nobody but the owners.

It's clear that many people are willfully ignorant or scared stupid.

No. Millions WERE going to die. We shut down for two weeks to STOP HOSPITALS FROM BEING OVERWHELMED BY THE MILLIONS DYING AT THE SAME TIME. They called it "flattening the curve ". By coincidence it started right after TRUMPS FOREVER IMPEACHMENT.


Not a coincidence, seems more like plan B, or in this case plan V.
580   prodigy   ignore (0)   2020 Aug 4, 2:51pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

Sweden 110 more deaths per million than USA.
"remember their population has likely already been exposed to the virus whereas here in USA most people have NOT yet been exposed."
So much for the effect of herd immunity...

PeopleUnited says
Be smarter. They don’t have the same level of testing we do. Because of the lack of lockdowns it is probable that a higher percentage of their population has gotten infected and never knew it, therefore the data is under reporting cases. What matters in the end is fatalities per 100,000 population.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

In that regard Sweden is already looking good only about 100 deaths per million population different than us, and remember their population has likely already been exposed to the virus whereas here in USA most people have NOT yet been exposed.
581   mell   ignore (6)   2020 Aug 4, 3:56pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

I had my meeting with the branch covidians cause I need some sort of test for travel and medical facility visits. At least a cute chick checked me in on the drive-in. They weren't wearing any face shields or googles, just n95 masks. Didn't seem too afraid of the Chinese virus.
582   PeopleUnited   ignore (1)   2020 Aug 4, 6:09pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

prodigy says
Sweden 110 more deaths per million than USA.


Yep, and that is without economy crippling lockdowns! That is what success looks like and the best part is that as time goes by that number will look even better!!!!

prodigy says

So much for the effect of herd immunity...

Nominated.
More people in Sweden per capita have been exposed, and recovered than here in USA. They are closer to the end of the plague than we are, because they did not lock down! Because they are closer herd immunity! Duh.

Worse than that there is growing evidence that lockdowns are causing MORE death from untreated non Chinese virus illnesses. https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-scandal-of-excess-deaths-at-home
583   WookieMan   ignore (5)   2020 Aug 5, 6:41am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

0.7% of the US population has an active case, tested positive right now when you factor in the recovered people. On a tested basis, that can transmit the virus, there are basically less than 1 in 100 chance of even being around someone with the virus. Or 7 in 1,000. Or 70 in 10,000 people. Data straight from worldmeter.

Let's open back up. I'll take those odds considering there's a 0.7% chance of exposure and if I'm lucky enough to get it, only a 3.9% chance of death. And of those that die, something like 70% are 55 and older with other major and multiple health complications. No one with a working brain can really argue against this. Avoid close, indoor interaction, with people you don't know, without a mask and you will likely never get it.

And before some ass hole does it, please don't bring up the fucking lily pad and pond anecdote. If that anecdote were anything like how a virus works, we'd all have had it by now. Stick to the data we know. Covid is nothing. 20-40% of Covid deaths are most certainly from flu and/or other respiratory and medical issues. A huge chunk of that also occurred in just two states NY/NJ. Total deaths are only 110k if you take out NY/NJ. Factor in BS cause of death and real numbers are likely closer to 50-80k deaths. And 70% of those were close to death anyway.

But hey, keep the country shut down. lol. People fighting raw data are so stupid.
584   Onvacation   ignore (6)   2020 Aug 5, 6:52am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

prodigy says
And they did not die.
See? It worked.

Worked with Ebola too.
585   Onvacation   ignore (6)   2020 Aug 5, 6:55am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

prodigy says
Always the politics.
Always political.
Pelosi must have paid china to infect the world!!

It was Feinstein. But yeah, they're in it together. Whenever you wear a mask Newsom gets a bonus from the CCP.
586   WookieMan   ignore (5)   2020 Aug 5, 7:06am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Onvacation says
prodigy says
Always the politics.
Always political.
Pelosi must have paid china to infect the world!!

It was Feinstein. But yeah, they're in it together. Whenever you wear a mask Newsom gets a bonus from the CCP.

Prodigy - Explain how it is NOT political or media manipulation at minimum? Refute any of the data in my comment above (586). The average American doesn't even personally know anyone tested positive for this virus. Literally no one personally knows anyone that has died from it (direct family or friend). None of this friends grandmas sister bullshit either.

Statistically Covid is absolutely nothing. It's been misrepresented by media and also by hospital administrators looking to make $$$$ because most the people dying are on government eldercare, so they want max money to intubate patients they know were dying anyway. I'm sorry that some can't see through the veil in front of them, but maybe start trying. It's not a good look.
587   georgeliberte   ignore (0)   2020 Aug 5, 7:36am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

I don't know if I am the only one annoyed by the sanctimonious pathos of this obit.
It is everybody else fault (even though he was 80); but, we know all the right answers. I think Karma did find them ans she's a bitch.
588   WookieMan   ignore (5)   2020 Aug 5, 7:46am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

georgeliberte says
I don't know if I am the only one annoyed by the sanctimonious pathos of this obit.
It is everybody else fault (even though he was 80); but, we know all the right answers. I think Karma did find them ans she's a bitch.

I don't think that is real. But who knows. 80 is more than a full life, so if real, the family is ungrateful pieces of shit for not understanding that. My Dad was 68. FIL was 55. BIL was 35. Anyone that writes an obit like that can go fuck themselves, if real.
589   georgeliberte   ignore (0)   2020 Aug 5, 8:02am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

I don't think that is real. But who knows.
It is going viral; although that may just be Orange Man Bad syndrome.

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