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Flatten the Curve


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2020 Jul 15, 3:31am   30,191 views  720 comments

by Onvacation   ➕follow (4)   💰tip   ignore  


As the numbers of cases, hospitalizations, and deaths surge to record levels in multiple epicenters, local and state officials are struggling with whether and how much to reverse the rollback of restrictions on individuals and businesses. For example, following a gradual reopening over about a month, on Monday, California Gov. Gavin Newsom announced the reintroduction of statewide restrictions that would again shut down bars, all indoor dining, family entertainment, zoos and museums following a surge in coronavirus cases. The governors of Florida, Texas, and Arizona, all now epicenters of infection, have also slowed or reversed reopening, but their actions have been tepid. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is even insisting on opening schools in the face of record-high numbers of infections.

These officials would do well to recall the observation of The Great One. No, not Dr. Tony Fauci of the National Institutes of Health—the other one, hockey legend Wayne Gretzky, who once explained, “I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been.”

Anticipating what’s coming is important in confronting an infectious disease, especially one whose dynamics are what many infectious disease experts consider their worst nightmare. COVID-19 is highly infectious, has a lengthy incubation period (during which asymptomatic infected persons can unwittingly shed virus and infect other people), and causes serious, sometimes fatal illness.

Those unusual characteristics of the SARS-CoV-2 virus, which causes COVID-19, and the idiosyncrasies and spectrum of presentations of the illness—from pulmonary symptoms (including pneumonia and pulmonary fibrosis) to a range of non-respiratory manifestations, (including loss of sense of smell or taste, confusion and cognitive impairments, fainting, sudden muscle weakness or paralysis, seizures, ischemic strokes, kidney damage, and, rarely, a severe pediatric inflammatory syndrome) mean that we are on a steep learning curve.

The problem is: if we react too slowly to changing circumstances, we can fall off a metaphorical cliff.

There’s an old brain teaser that perfectly illustrates this point. Consider a pond of a certain size, on which there is a single lily pad. This particular species of lily pad reproduces and duplicates itself once a day, so that on day 2, you have two lily pads. On day 3, you have four; on day 4, you have eight; and so on. Here’s the teaser: if it takes the lily pads 48 days to cover the pond completely, how long will it take for the pond to be covered halfway?

The answer? 47 days. In just 24 hours, between day 47 and day 48, the lily pads would double in size and overtake the pond. Moreover, on day 40, the pond would still appear to be relatively clear; just eight days from the pond being completely covered, you’d hardly know the lily pads were there.

If the same thing happens with a virulent and highly contagious infectious agent, like the SARS-CoV-2 virus, you don’t know you’re in trouble until you wake up one morning to find that you’re overwhelmed. Like the lily pad example, the daily number of confirmed COVID-19 cases in the U.S. was 18,577 on June 15th—just three weeks later, on July 10th, the number had shot up to 66,281.

Dr. Anthony Fauci
Dr. Anthony Fauci

FLATTENING THE CURVE TO BEAT THE IMPENDING CLIFF

From early in the pandemic, the public health mantra worldwide has been: “flatten the curve.” That important concept, which was in vogue several months ago, seems largely forgotten today.

In the above graphic from the University of Michigan, the blue curve is the viral equivalent of the lily pads, suddenly covering the pond. It represents a large number of people (shown on the vertical axis) becoming infected over a short time (horizontal axis), and, in turn, overwhelming our health care system with people who need hospitalization, or even an Intensive Care Unit (ICU).

People won’t shop for non-essentials, fly, go to restaurants, theaters, and athletic events, or send their kids to school, when numbers of new cases are soaring.

If, however, political officials, individuals, and communities take steps to slow the virus’s spread, the cases of COVID-19 will stretch out across a more extended period, as depicted by the flatter, yellow curve. As long as the number of cases at any given time doesn’t bleed past the dotted line marking the capacity of our nation’s health care system, we’ll be able to accommodate everyone who is very sick.

Curve-flattening has fallen out of focus in recent months, in part because some political leaders reopened too aggressively and prematurely, basing policy on their constituents’ “pandemic fatigue,” instead of on the advice of epidemiologists and infectious disease experts.

But it’s still critical to avoid the pattern of the blue curve, not only to spare hospitals and ICUs—which are especially under stress in parts of Arizona, Florida, and Texas—but also so that we can continue the gradual reopening of the nation’s businesses and schools. Reopening relies on curve-flattening. As the NIH’s Dr. Tony Fauci says frequently, public health and economic considerations are not in opposition but are opposite sides of the same coin; we can’t fully restart and resume commerce until the pandemic is under some measure of control. People won’t shop for non-essentials, fly, go to restaurants, theaters, and athletic events, or send their kids to school, when numbers of new cases are soaring.

That means we need to start anticipating and stop playing catch-up—as the governors of Florida, Arizona, and Texas have been doing, relying on a combination of magical thinking, Happy Talk, and too-little-too-late remedies, instead of aggressive, evidence-based public health policies.

Arizona Governor Doug Ducey, for instance, has offered no strategy for blunting the spike in COVID-19 cases other than to keep repeating that there were enough hospital beds to treat those who fall ill. And yet, ICU beds and ventilators in use by suspected and confirmed COVID-19 patients in Arizona both hit new records on July 12th and were under stress, according to data reported by hospitals to the state.

On July 10th, a physicians group gathered outside Florida Governor DeSantis’s mansion in Tallahassee to urge him to issue an order mandating the use of face masks statewide, which arguably should have been done months ago. Masks have long been considered essential to slowing the spread of COVID-19, but, inexplicably, the Governor resisted. And only on July 10th did Texas Governor Greg Abbott finally mandate the wearing of face masks, and demand the prohibition of large gatherings and the closing of bars across the state.

Elected officials must heed Wayne Gretzky’s admonition and stay ahead of the coronavirus, in order to lower its rate of transmission. That’s the only way to slow the rise of new cases.

Evidence-based policies, such as requiring masks in public, prohibiting large indoor gatherings, and indoor dining at restaurants, are important. But as we’ve seen with California, even aggressive imposition of those kinds of strictures has not been sufficient—in large part because many people, especially younger ones, have failed to comply. As California allowed businesses and public places to reopen, bars, boardwalks, and beaches became crowded with large numbers of maskless patrons. It’s no wonder, then, that as of July 13th, hospitals in the state reported a 27.8% increase in hospitalized patients over the previous 14 days and a 19.9% increase in ICU patients over that same period. In fact, as a result of noncompliance, many local governments in the Golden State have had to coordinate with law enforcement agencies to issue citations and explore civil alternatives through code enforcement, environmental health, or other local government personnel.

Of course, the need for heightened consequences for noncompliance is unfortunate, but it will help to re-flatten the curve. That will spread out the demands on hospitals, which must have sufficient space, supplies, and healthy staff to care for all those who need hospital-level care—whether for COVID-19, a stroke, trauma, emergency surgery, or childbirth. It’s strong, but necessary, medicine—which possibly could have been avoided with more intense efforts to get the public to comply with wearing masks, social distancing, and frequent hand-washing.

If politicians properly understood their role in flattening the curve, they wouldn’t have to resort to policing and ticketing. They would instead launch a tsunami of public service announcements from all manner of dignitaries and celebrities, including prominent politicians, actors, rock stars, and athletes—maybe even The Great One himself—demonstrating how we can anticipate instead of falling behind the curve.

That non-coercive strategy could be a winner.


In this article:Coronavirus, Featured, large
Don't Miss:
For Coronavirus, the Name of the Game Is Minimizing the Probability of Infection.

Written By
Henry I. Miller, M.S., M.D.
Henry I. Miller, a physician and molecular biologist, is a Senior Fellow at the Pacific Research Institute. He was the founding director of the FDA’s Office of Biotechnology.


https://humanevents.com/2020/07/14/flattening-the-curve-is-still-the-right-answer/

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388   WookieMan   2020 Jul 31, 12:12pm  

prodigy says
So we don't know for sure who is sick or not at any point in time.

Bingo! Exactly! Same with the flu. Hits everyone differently. If you feel sick stay home. A mask does dick and you’ve provided us that evidence. Thanks!
389   prodigy   2020 Jul 31, 12:15pm  

Yes, painful to see a politician asking political questions to a doctor whose skill is in medicine.
Fauci did a good job of sticking to medicine.
Jorden did a lame job of trying to move Fauci off his area of expertise.
Jorden failed.
socal2 says
So painful to watch.

This is our nation's top "expert"?

www.youtube.com/embed/oSCSWVrcCtA
390   Onvacation   2020 Jul 31, 12:16pm  

prodigy says
And there is the catch with this bug.
You can be infected up to 7 days and not know it, or never know it.

It must suck to be sick and not even know about it.

Open the schools per CDC guidelines. Open the economy so more people don't suffer. If you are sick stay home. If you are at risk or scared self quarantine.

Fuck the new normal.
391   WookieMan   2020 Jul 31, 12:18pm  

prodigy says
a doctor whose skill is in medicine

Which he failed at medicine for 2 months. Masks weren’t necessary according to him. Yet now a paper towel is sufficient. That’s what’s going on and you have no counter argument. I get you’re probably old. So just stay home. Not a big deal.
392   prodigy   2020 Jul 31, 12:20pm  

Your post makes no sense.
If someone doesn't know they are sick, then they are not in pain. They go about their normal activities. Nothing sucks for them.
However, if another person catches the bug from the sick person and develops symptoms, then yes, it would suck for that person.
That should clear it up for ya.

Onvacation says
prodigy says
And there is the catch with this bug.
You can be infected up to 7 days and not know it, or never know it.

It must suck to be sick and not even know about it.
393   Onvacation   2020 Jul 31, 12:22pm  

Humanity is overdue for a pandemic that will cull the herd by killing tens or even hundreds of millions. Covid-19 isn't it. This "Dempanic" is more about politics than public health.

If Kamala wins the election, victory will be declared over the pandemic before the nomination.

And Epstein did not kill his self.
394   Onvacation   2020 Jul 31, 12:24pm  

prodigy says
Your post makes no sense.

Exactly!
395   prodigy   2020 Jul 31, 12:26pm  

I've given you the counter argument, but it does not fit your political narrative so you act like you never read it.

With any N.O.V.E.L. virus, everything about it is in flux. What to do, what not to do, what to take, etc.
For starters, one can take actions based on similar viruses, but everything is usually adjusted in real time as the data flows in.
The treatments and avoidance procedures for Covid19 will be ever changing for the next year, at least.
Get ready for more change.

WookieMan says
prodigy says
a doctor whose skill is in medicine

Which he failed at medicine for 2 months. Masks weren’t necessary according to him. Yet now a paper towel is sufficient. That’s what’s going on and you have no counter argument.
396   prodigy   2020 Jul 31, 12:32pm  

Yes, Covid19 isn't it.
But Covid 19 is a lot worse than the flu.
Agree the "Dempanic" is more about politics than public health, just like the Mask Denier is more about politics than public health.
So there you go. How do you like living in a country so polarized that nobody gives a fuck about health, only winning political points over grandma and grandpa's dead bodies.

Onvacation says
Humanity is overdue for a pandemic that will cull the herd by killing tens or even hundreds of millions. Covid-19 isn't it. This "Dempanic" is more about politics than public health.
397   prodigy   2020 Jul 31, 12:33pm  

I'm glad you came around to my way of thinking. Thanks!

Onvacation says
prodigy says
Your post makes no sense.

Exactly!
398   WookieMan   2020 Jul 31, 12:34pm  

prodigy says
but it does not fit your political narrative so you act like you never read it

When have I mentioned politics? I have no narrative. Just reality. You’re being fed a pile of shit and you’re eating it. Congrats.
399   prodigy   2020 Jul 31, 12:35pm  

Personal attacks indicate you have no more data to support your position.
Thanks for the win!

WookieMan says
You’re being fed a pile of shit and you’re eating it. Congrats.
400   Ceffer   2020 Jul 31, 12:36pm  

I think we can move on to the next paradigm: artificially and with forethought fattening the curve for purely political goals. Flattening the curve is so passe.
401   Onvacation   2020 Jul 31, 12:36pm  

prodigy says
Covid 19 is a lot worse than the flu.

We can agree to disagree on this point.

Would you agree that the late sixties Hong Kong flu was relatively, to population, more serious than Covid-19?
402   socal2   2020 Jul 31, 12:38pm  

prodigy says
Yes, painful to see a politician asking political questions to a doctor whose skill is in medicine.


Huh? Are you suggesting that Fauci has not opined on public policies to limit the spread of COVID?
403   Onvacation   2020 Jul 31, 12:39pm  

Ceffer says
fattening the curve for purely political goals. Flattening the curve is so passe.

Exactly! At the beginning of this year we were moving into a severe flu season. Now almost no one is dying from the flu, heart attack, stroke, etc.
404   prodigy   2020 Jul 31, 12:39pm  

Well no two flus are alike, so I'll retract my statement below. Not specific enough.

Onvacation says
prodigy says
Covid 19 is a lot worse than the flu.

We can agree to disagree on this point.
405   mell   2020 Jul 31, 12:39pm  

prodigy says
And there is the catch with this bug.
You can be infected up to 7 days and not know it, or never know it.
So we don't know for sure who is sick or not at any point in time.
Which brings us to the current default position of assuming everybody is sick, so everybody wear masks to stop spreading.

mell says
Surgical masks and bandanas do little to nothing for the healthy (in fact can have adverse effects), but they do help a little if someone who is sick is wearing them.


But when you're asymptomatic you're very unlikely to spread it, unless you're in close contact like a SO or other family. Symptoms indicate high viral replication. If you don't have symptoms you hardly shed, see kids. Everyone with symptoms should wear a mask or stay at home or outside only.
406   prodigy   2020 Jul 31, 12:41pm  

How many people die from flu each year in US?
While the impact of flu varies, it places a substantial burden on the health of people in the United States each year. CDC estimates that influenza has resulted in between 9 million – 45 million illnesses, between 140,000 – 810,000 hospitalizations and between 12,000 – 61,000 deaths annually since 2010.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html
407   prodigy   2020 Jul 31, 12:43pm  

we are at 155k and counting.
My new statement is:
Covid 19 is moving towards 300% of the average flu death rate over the past 10 years.
408   prodigy   2020 Jul 31, 12:47pm  

No.
But he answered Jordens question. It's about large groups gathering closely together without masks.
Doesn't matter what type of group it is.
Jordon was just playing politics as that is his area of expertise. Fauci refused to play.

socal2 says
prodigy says
Yes, painful to see a politician asking political questions to a doctor whose skill is in medicine.


Huh? Are you suggesting that Fauci has not opined on public policies to limit the spread of COVID?
409   prodigy   2020 Jul 31, 12:50pm  

But something is killing people at close to a 300% increase of the average flu deaths over the past 10 years.
What could it be?
Onvacation says
Ceffer says
fattening the curve for purely political goals. Flattening the curve is so passe.

Exactly! At the beginning of this year we were moving into a severe flu season. Now almost no one is dying from the flu, heart attack, stroke, etc.
410   prodigy   2020 Jul 31, 12:54pm  

Can asymptomatic people spread COVID-19?
Generally, asymptomatic people can spread the disease they have. This is thought to be true for the novel coronavirus, too, although officials don't yet know how common the spread of COVID-19 by asymptomatic carriers is.

Studies have shown that people can be contagious in the first several days of having the virus, before they show symptoms. One study actually estimated that more than 40% of novel coronavirus cases were transmitted in the presymptomatic phase. And, in a study that analyzed samples from sailors on the USS Theodore Roosevelt, about 20% of infected people reported that they never developed symptoms.


A survey from the CDC reports that 54% of people who tested positive for COVID-19 couldn't recall how they got it. The remaining 46% of respondents who tested positive reported that they had close contact with someone who was sick, such as a family member, before they developed the disease.

This indicates that the majority of people could have contracted COVID-19 from an asymptomatic person they'd been in close contact with, or from a symptomatic passer-by, such as someone who coughed near you at the grocery store.

The report concludes by saying this ambiguity "underscores the need for isolation of infected persons, contact tracing and testing during ongoing community transmission, and prevention measures including social distancing and use of cloth face coverings."

So, it's clear that people can contract the disease but remain symptomless. It's also clear that people who do develop symptoms could potentially spread the virus before they knew they had it.

mell says
But when you're asymptomatic you're very unlikely to spread it, unless you're in close contact like a SO or other family. Symptoms indicate high viral replication. If you don't have symptoms you hardly shed, see kids. Everyone with symptoms should wear a mask or stay at home or outside only.
411   mell   2020 Jul 31, 12:54pm  

prodigy says
But something is killing people at close to a 300% increase of the average flu deaths over the past 10 years.
What could it be?
Onvacation says
Ceffer says
fattening the curve for purely political goals. Flattening the curve is so passe.

Exactly! At the beginning of this year we were moving into a severe flu season. Now almost no one is dying from the flu, heart attack, stroke, etc.


It's highly contagious and replaces the mix of respiratory infections that combined kills roughly the same amount of people. I know "experts" are already screeching from the rooftop about the double burden come winter but I bet there will be far less flu and cold deaths partially because of mislabeling as Covid and partially because Sars cov 2 will dominate the other viruses if it it doesn't let up. That being said I expect herd immunity reached by then anyways.
412   prodigy   2020 Jul 31, 12:57pm  

And largely due to mask wearing by half the populace greatly reducing transmission of your normal run of respiratory illnesses.

mell says
but I bet there will be far less flu and cold deaths partially because of mislabeling as Covid and partially because Sars cov 2 will dominate the other viruses if it it doesn't let up.
413   Patrick   2020 Jul 31, 1:12pm  

We won't need masks even indoors if the anti-science crowd can suppress their egos long enough to let HCQ + azith + zinc become mainstream.

https://c19study.com/
414   Onvacation   2020 Jul 31, 3:22pm  

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostakovitch says
Masks are TERRORIST!

TRUMP! should order National Guard snipers to take out people wearing them!

THEN! AMERICA! will rise from the burning rubble of the OBAMA! administration!

It's DEFINITELY Trump's economy now.

Obama never would have pussed out and shut down the country.
415   WookieMan   2020 Jul 31, 4:07pm  

prodigy says
Personal attacks indicate you have no more data to support your position.
Thanks for the win

Why are cases increasing with more mask wearing? For the win...
416   WookieMan   2020 Jul 31, 4:13pm  

WookieMan says
prodigy says
Personal attacks indicate you have no more data to support your position.
Thanks for the win

Why are cases increasing with more mask wearing? For the win...


Please also point out where I personally attacked you. I said the information you’re getting is shit. If you took that personally that’s on you. Claiming it was personal might shed some light on the fact that I’m right getting so defensive.
417   SoTex   2020 Aug 1, 12:34pm  

Eric Holder says
If there is no peer-reviewed study establishing eye route for infection how can there be a link to it? Unless you accept /dev/null as such.


That's probably because it would be redundant as fuck. Lots of previous studies with other viruses/pathogens. In fact, last century the US military wanted to figure out how tightly they could pack soldiers together onto ships and prevent the spread of ... I think it was influenza. Anyhow, if I recall it was 3 feet and they figured out it was entering through the eyes. Through the nasolacrimal duct in particular.



Lots of upper respiratory viruses get in that way. You rub your eyes and they go down the duct and are deposited into your sinuses. There have been some studies that show covid does in fact interact with ACE2 in eyeball tissue but that's different.

Just another reason why I think the mask thing is stupid and not really helping much if at all. No, I don't think we need to just 'add goggles' or some shit. (Unless you are old; might want to consider that lol)

edit: Despite SARS-1 being an upper-respiratory virus I think covid may only be classified as a respiratory virus. It doesn't attack the sinuses as far as I know. Still an entry point though.

Fucking Trump. It's his fault for not forcing auto manufacturers to produce free positive pressure air suits for the entire populace!
418   Onvacation   2020 Aug 1, 12:44pm  

So we're all agreed. We can get covid through our mouth, nose, eyes, and possibly ears and anus.

Spacesuits and strict lockdowns are the obvious answer until the virus dies from Biden being elected.
419   Booger   2020 Aug 1, 12:58pm  

WookieMan says
Why are cases increasing with more mask wearing? For the win...


More testing?
421   Misc   2020 Aug 1, 1:26pm  

We're about to see a huge drop off in number of new daily cases. It's my bet that we've hit testing fatigue. Where everyone who wanted to get tested has gotten tested. With less people getting tested the number of new cases drops like a rock.
422   MrEd   2020 Aug 1, 2:29pm  

Hmmm it's not normal to stick ones finger up ones ass.
Where'd you get that idea?
Onvacation says
So we're all agreed. We can get covid through our mouth, nose, eyes, and possibly ears and anus.
423   MrEd   2020 Aug 1, 2:30pm  

That one is pretty obvious.
Booger says
WookieMan says
Why are cases increasing with more mask wearing? For the win...


More testing?
424   CBOEtrader   2020 Aug 1, 2:31pm  

mell says
That's a dangerous precedent to force "dumbfucks" to use masks just because they could spread a respiratory virus to you.


Mandatory pants, no more of those crotchless virus spreaders. Ratchets are a threat to public safety
425   theoakman   2020 Aug 1, 2:54pm  

prodigy says
How many people die from flu each year in US?
While the impact of flu varies, it places a substantial burden on the health of people in the United States each year. CDC estimates that influenza has resulted in between 9 million – 45 million illnesses, between 140,000 – 810,000 hospitalizations and between 12,000 – 61,000 deaths annually since 2010.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html


You seem to think Covid is capable of taking out that many people on an annual basis. It can't. It takes out the weak first and is likely to not b able to take out the survivors later on. The only reason the rate of transmission is so extremely high because no one ever had it before. So it can spread much more rapidly than the flu.

The reason the flu doesn't kill as many people is because we have yearly vaccines. Moreover, we have a large degree of exposure to previously mutations so immunity can carry over from year to year until it mutates more.

That being said, statistically speaking, this virus is FAR FAR FAR less lethal than the flu to children. Last time I checked, we were only in the teens for deaths of anyone under 14. So...it's more dangerous to people over the age of 60 and almost harmless to children.

So basically, yes, in year 1 Covid kills more than the flu does on average. This is not worse than the flu on a long term basis. Here's why. Young people can easily gain immunity from this disease without even getting sick. Also, this virus appears to be much less mutagenic.
426   SoTex   2020 Aug 1, 5:03pm  

Onvacation says
Biden being elected.


He'll sniff that fucking virus out!
427   SoTex   2020 Aug 1, 5:09pm  

Now that I'm nearing the end of what I sincerely believe is my 2nd round with the rona I'm planning to schedule a flight to go visit the folks in a few weeks. I figure I'll have t-cell immunity for a little while and won't kill them because anything I pick up in transit will be eliminated immediately. After that if I keep wearing a damn mask, washing my hands too much and isolating I'll probably get it again in 6 months. Which makes me think at this point it's better for me (and likely others) if I just keep being exposed constantly to it. That'll keep up my limited immunity.

Ultimately I think that's the sort of thing that may have to happen on a large scale to mostly get rid of it.

Most people don't produce antibodies for any significant length of time if at all. This is also why a vaccine is a pipe dream BS. I'm not going to take it. Flu and others yes but not some bastardized vaccine that was quickly produced for this.

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