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Regarding a UBI
invite response
2021 Mar 5, 12:54pm 3,812 views 63 comments
by Zak ➕follow (0) 💰tip ignore
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22
WookieMan
2021 Mar 13, 6:06am
WookieMan
2021 Mar 13, 6:06am
HeadSet says
Isn't the writer in charge of that at this point though? If you need someone to look over your spelling you shouldn't be reporting "news." Grammar and punctuation are a different thing as there is some nuance there as things change and evolve. Spelling errors are not acceptable in news or simple errors like your and you're. Or advice and advise. Grammatically those too;) piss me off the most.
Worse than you think. One reason for so many grammar errors in the print news is the offshoring of the writing to places where English is not the main language.
Isn't the writer in charge of that at this point though? If you need someone to look over your spelling you shouldn't be reporting "news." Grammar and punctuation are a different thing as there is some nuance there as things change and evolve. Spelling errors are not acceptable in news or simple errors like your and you're. Or advice and advise. Grammatically those too;) piss me off the most.
23
PeopleUnited
2021 Mar 13, 7:52am
PeopleUnited
2021 Mar 13, 7:52am
So the idea is that if you “level the playing field” by giving everyone the amount of money equal to the minimum needed for food and shelter then everyone will have food and shelter.
Sounds logical on the surface. But the devil is in the details.
1. First of all where does the money come from that they are “giving” away to everyone?
2. When you give one person $30,000 the effect on the economy is negligible, when you give everyone $30,000 prices go up as supply becomes a limiting factor. So the extra money does not benefit the benefactors, rather it creates even more wealth for those who already are wealthy. UBI therefore guarantees increased wealth disparity.
3. If by magic prices could be controlled, the UBI would still create a class of people dependent on the free money and unwilling to work to produce goods or provide services. The UBI system would collapse under its own weight as the workers would quickly be outnumbered by takers to the point where the availability of goods and services would dry up completely except for the Uber wealthy who could still afford to pay exorbitant prices for what they want and need.
4. Finally, if by magic somehow you could control prices and motivate people to work to produce goods and services despite the fact that they don’t need to work to have their needs met, then you still have a system where the government can tell you what to do, threaten to take away your income if you don’t comply, the wealthy still have their power and privilege, and wealth disparity has not changed a bit. The UBI is a recipe for instant dystopia.
It’s been tried before folks, it is called communism, socialism, or the great reset. It always goes the same way, some elite people have everything they want and most everyone else who escape the genocide and gulags can not even get their basic needs met on a reliable basis. But those who forget history are destined to repeat it. Welcome to 2021 and the great reset new world order. See you in the death camps?
Sounds logical on the surface. But the devil is in the details.
1. First of all where does the money come from that they are “giving” away to everyone?
2. When you give one person $30,000 the effect on the economy is negligible, when you give everyone $30,000 prices go up as supply becomes a limiting factor. So the extra money does not benefit the benefactors, rather it creates even more wealth for those who already are wealthy. UBI therefore guarantees increased wealth disparity.
3. If by magic prices could be controlled, the UBI would still create a class of people dependent on the free money and unwilling to work to produce goods or provide services. The UBI system would collapse under its own weight as the workers would quickly be outnumbered by takers to the point where the availability of goods and services would dry up completely except for the Uber wealthy who could still afford to pay exorbitant prices for what they want and need.
4. Finally, if by magic somehow you could control prices and motivate people to work to produce goods and services despite the fact that they don’t need to work to have their needs met, then you still have a system where the government can tell you what to do, threaten to take away your income if you don’t comply, the wealthy still have their power and privilege, and wealth disparity has not changed a bit. The UBI is a recipe for instant dystopia.
It’s been tried before folks, it is called communism, socialism, or the great reset. It always goes the same way, some elite people have everything they want and most everyone else who escape the genocide and gulags can not even get their basic needs met on a reliable basis. But those who forget history are destined to repeat it. Welcome to 2021 and the great reset new world order. See you in the death camps?
24
mell
2021 Mar 13, 7:55am
PeopleUnited says
Valid points but the money is given away anyways, without UBI it's the status quo where it's given to special interests. If you can take some of the special interest racket money off and distribute it equally instead it would be better than the status quo. If you just add it on, then not.
So the idea is that if you “level the playing field” by giving everyone the amount of money equal to the minimum needed for food and shelter then everyone will have food and shelter.
Sounds logical on the surface. But the devil is in the details.
1. First of all where does the money come from that they are “giving” away to everyone?
2. When you give one person $30,000 the effect on the economy is negligible, when you give everyone $30,000 prices go up as supply becomes a limiting factor. So the extra money does not benefit the benefactors, rather it creates even more wealth for those who already are wealthy. UBI therefore guarantees increased wealth disparity.
3. If by magic prices could be controlled, the UBI would still create a class of people dependent on the free money and unwilling to work to produce goods or provide services. The UBI system would collapse under its own weight as the workers would quickly be outnumbered by takers to the point where the availab...
Valid points but the money is given away anyways, without UBI it's the status quo where it's given to special interests. If you can take some of the special interest racket money off and distribute it equally instead it would be better than the status quo. If you just add it on, then not.
25
Zak
2021 Mar 13, 11:17am
To be clear, I am NOT in favor of doing this in general. However, since it doesn't seem like we can do the right thing (getting rid of the FIAT currency) then it seems that what we must do is mitigate the damage as the poor are literally getting decimated by inflationary monetary policy. I hate it, because it makes the centralization of money and control back into the federal government seem not quite so terrible, and even makes poor people think the government is giving them money, but it's less bad than allowing fiat currency WITHOUT a public dividend. The reality is, the money would be those peoples in the first place if we had a sound currency.
To be clear, this isn't about workers vs takers. That is a mislabeling in the first place. The takers are those in the banking and government, inflating away the value of wages and saved money. Even someone not working likely has a family member that IS working, who is less and less able to take care of the non-worker as their wages are inflated away. And it's not the person on public assistance that is taking the money in taxes is it? It's the police state. If you're against something, it should be against mandatory income taxes. Argue for taxes to be voluntary. We seem to collect plenty of money with voluntarily paid sales and energy taxes. Don't want to pay the tax? Don't buy that thing, or don't buy gas, or don't use public utilities. There are alternative options for each of those, it's just massively more convenient to voluntarily pay the tax. And we don't even need police(IRS) to enforce the paying of those taxes (only that merchants actually submit them). On that note though, we should also eliminate taxes on water and sewer, as you literally cannot live without them. Not that they should be free, but we shouldn't tax them at least.
To be clear, this isn't about workers vs takers. That is a mislabeling in the first place. The takers are those in the banking and government, inflating away the value of wages and saved money. Even someone not working likely has a family member that IS working, who is less and less able to take care of the non-worker as their wages are inflated away. And it's not the person on public assistance that is taking the money in taxes is it? It's the police state. If you're against something, it should be against mandatory income taxes. Argue for taxes to be voluntary. We seem to collect plenty of money with voluntarily paid sales and energy taxes. Don't want to pay the tax? Don't buy that thing, or don't buy gas, or don't use public utilities. There are alternative options for each of those, it's just massively more convenient to voluntarily pay the tax. And we don't even need police(IRS) to enforce the paying of those taxes (only that merchants actually submit them). On that note though, we should also eliminate taxes on water and sewer, as you literally cannot live without them. Not that they should be free, but we shouldn't tax them at least.
26
HeadSet
2021 Mar 13, 11:49am
HeadSet
2021 Mar 13, 11:49am
PeopleUnited says
Actually, that is where cheap Chinese imports an illegals come in. The idle mob created by the UBI would spend their money on goods created by essentially slaves. Rents, however, would rise and somewhat blunt this effect.
An example of "UBI style affect on rents is shown at military bases near small towns. Whenever the Basic Quarters Allowance is increased thus putting extra money into the pockets of all the local servicemembers, rents all over town immediately go up. That stinks for the locals who have to compete with that.
The UBI system would collapse under its own weight as the workers would quickly be outnumbered by takers to the point where the availability of goods and services would dry up completely except for the Uber wealthy who could still afford to pay exorbitant prices for what they want and need.
Actually, that is where cheap Chinese imports an illegals come in. The idle mob created by the UBI would spend their money on goods created by essentially slaves. Rents, however, would rise and somewhat blunt this effect.
An example of "UBI style affect on rents is shown at military bases near small towns. Whenever the Basic Quarters Allowance is increased thus putting extra money into the pockets of all the local servicemembers, rents all over town immediately go up. That stinks for the locals who have to compete with that.
27
PeopleUnited
2021 Mar 13, 6:23pm
PeopleUnited
2021 Mar 13, 6:23pm
Zak says
Are taxes the problem or is the way they are spent the real issue? The government should not need to collect income taxes, this is true. In fact the government has no right to even know the assets of any person.
But what we really need is to stop spending other people’s money to pad the pockets of (fill in the blank) government should be small and local and accountable to the people. Not large and federal and oppressive to the people.
against mandatory income taxes
Are taxes the problem or is the way they are spent the real issue? The government should not need to collect income taxes, this is true. In fact the government has no right to even know the assets of any person.
But what we really need is to stop spending other people’s money to pad the pockets of (fill in the blank) government should be small and local and accountable to the people. Not large and federal and oppressive to the people.
28
SunnyvaleCA
2021 Mar 13, 6:51pm
HeadSet says
Yeah, the United States!
One reason for so many grammar errors in the print news is the offshoring of the writing to places where English is not the main language
Yeah, the United States!
29
SunnyvaleCA
2021 Mar 13, 6:55pm
PeopleUnited says
5. Cannot afford UBI for 1 billion or more extra people.
[UBI] Sounds logical on the surface. But the devil is in the details.We're now an open-borders non-country, so:
5. Cannot afford UBI for 1 billion or more extra people.
30
HeadSet
2021 Mar 13, 7:11pm
HeadSet
2021 Mar 13, 7:11pm
SunnyvaleCA says
¿Que?
HeadSet saysOne reason for so many grammar errors in the print news is the offshoring of the writing to places where English is not the main language
Yeah, the United States!
¿Que?
31
PeopleUnited
2021 Mar 13, 9:13pm
PeopleUnited
2021 Mar 13, 9:13pm
SunnyvaleCA says
But it’s the birthright of all foreign born persons to suckle off the American teat!
PeopleUnited says[UBI] Sounds logical on the surface. But the devil is in the details.We're now an open-borders non-country, so:
5. Cannot afford UBI for 1 billion or more extra people.
But it’s the birthright of all foreign born persons to suckle off the American teat!
32
Patrick
2021 Mar 13, 9:36pm
Patrick
2021 Mar 13, 9:36pm
HeadSet says
I've also become convinced that most of the articles written about stocks on Yahoo finance are not even written by humans at all. They are just AI generated tripe, no real content, no human reporter.
But at least they get the spelling right! :-)
One reason for so many grammar errors in the print news is the offshoring of the writing to places where English is not the main language.
I've also become convinced that most of the articles written about stocks on Yahoo finance are not even written by humans at all. They are just AI generated tripe, no real content, no human reporter.
But at least they get the spelling right! :-)
33
WookieMan
2021 Mar 14, 12:02pm
WookieMan
2021 Mar 14, 12:02pm
A family of four, married filing jointly, making under $150k is going to get $5,600. Just given to them. Read an article where 89% of the population will get full stimulus payments, while a small fraction of that 89% will get a reduced amount capping at $160k. This is so fucked. Because of the flu?
I'm astonished that 2 working adults cannot make more than $150k combined. Maybe I'm naive, but I really can't comprehend how if you're over 35-60, that you can't pull in $150k combined. Only 11% of the population does that? And yes I know some people own businesses and have lower income but can theoretically make more.
But for a family making $100k they're going to get 5.6% of their annual income just handed to them tax free. That's insane.
I'm astonished that 2 working adults cannot make more than $150k combined. Maybe I'm naive, but I really can't comprehend how if you're over 35-60, that you can't pull in $150k combined. Only 11% of the population does that? And yes I know some people own businesses and have lower income but can theoretically make more.
But for a family making $100k they're going to get 5.6% of their annual income just handed to them tax free. That's insane.
34
HeadSet
2021 Mar 14, 12:46pm
HeadSet
2021 Mar 14, 12:46pm
WookieMan says
Many "married filing jointly" are single income earners. Especially with school age children.
I'm astonished that 2 working adults cannot make more than $150k combined. Maybe I'm naive, but I really can't comprehend how if you're over 35-60, that you can't pull in $150k combined.
Many "married filing jointly" are single income earners. Especially with school age children.
35
mell
2021 Mar 15, 9:39am
WookieMan says
Gender studies doesn't pay much. But at least you can go off on a crazed tangent once in a while and make someone's life miserable and sticking it to the white patriarchic heteronormative supremacists!
A family of four, married filing jointly, making under $150k is going to get $5,600. Just given to them. Read an article where 89% of the population will get full stimulus payments, while a small fraction of that 89% will get a reduced amount capping at $160k. This is so fucked. Because of the flu?
I'm astonished that 2 working adults cannot make more than $150k combined. Maybe I'm naive, but I really can't comprehend how if you're over 35-60, that you can't pull in $150k combined. Only 11% of the population does that? And yes I know some people own businesses and have lower income but can theoretically make more.
But for a family making $100k they're going to get 5.6% of their annual income just handed to them tax free. That's insane.
Gender studies doesn't pay much. But at least you can go off on a crazed tangent once in a while and make someone's life miserable and sticking it to the white patriarchic heteronormative supremacists!
37
zzyzzx
2021 Mar 15, 10:01am
zzyzzx
2021 Mar 15, 10:01am
WookieMan says
I agree. But I figure that's almost nobody on this board that isn't retired.
I'm astonished that 2 working adults cannot make more than $150k combined.
I agree. But I figure that's almost nobody on this board that isn't retired.
40
AD
2024 Jan 31, 11:21pm
AD
2024 Jan 31, 11:21pm
Mish Talk website posted about the House of Representatives passing child tax credits bill today which is essentially universal basic income (UBI).
41
DOGEWontAmountToShit
2024 Feb 1, 10:48am
DOGEWontAmountToShit
2024 Feb 1, 10:48am
AD says
Really? How come I don't get the credits then?
If it ain't universal then it ain't universal.
Mish Talk website posted about the House of Representatives passing child tax credits bill today which is essentially universal basic income (UBI).
Really? How come I don't get the credits then?
If it ain't universal then it ain't universal.
42
Misc
2024 Feb 3, 11:30am
The government is trying to improve the domestic fertility rate. Raising kids is enormously expensive. The increase to the child tax credit is nowhere even close to the cost of raising a child, but it does add a little incentive for heterosexual couples to have children and marry.
Looks to me a step in the right direction.
Looks to me a step in the right direction.
43
HeadSet
2024 Feb 3, 2:49pm
HeadSet
2024 Feb 3, 2:49pm
AD says
No, that child tax credit is another form of welfare that is paid through the IRS system.
Mish Talk website posted about the House of Representatives passing child tax credits bill today which is essentially universal basic income (UBI).
No, that child tax credit is another form of welfare that is paid through the IRS system.
44
DOGEWontAmountToShit
2024 Feb 3, 4:48pm
DOGEWontAmountToShit
2024 Feb 3, 4:48pm
Misc says
How about...oh, I dunno...doing something else like fixing the root cause of the problem instead?
The government is trying to improve the domestic fertility rate. Raising kids is enormously expensive. The increase to the child tax credit is nowhere even close to the cost of raising a child, but it does add a little incentive for heterosexual couples to have children and marry.
Looks to me a step in the right direction.
How about...oh, I dunno...doing something else like fixing the root cause of the problem instead?
45
HeadSet
2024 Feb 3, 6:01pm
Yes, because:
That car was built in Detroit
That suite was made in New York
The home radio and record player were made in Illinois
The TV was made in Ohio
The family clothes were made in North Carolina
The washing machine was made in a midwest city
The house was built with American contractors using American labor and American make materials
Even the telephone was an American made Western Electric device
HeadSet
2024 Feb 3, 6:01pm
Yes, because:
That car was built in Detroit
That suite was made in New York
The home radio and record player were made in Illinois
The TV was made in Ohio
The family clothes were made in North Carolina
The washing machine was made in a midwest city
The house was built with American contractors using American labor and American make materials
Even the telephone was an American made Western Electric device
47
Patrick
2024 Jul 20, 4:00pm
Patrick
2024 Jul 20, 4:00pm
HeadSet says
Outsourcing to China and the mass import of criminal aliens are the root causes of American poverty from shifting wages away from workers and up to stockholders:
https://patrick.net/post/1381434/2024-06-01-grand-unified-theory-of-recent
Yes, because:
That car was built in Detroit
That suite was made in New York
The home radio and record player were made in Illinois
The TV was made in Ohio
The family clothes were made in North Carolina
The washing machine was made in a midwest city
The house was built with American contractors using American labor and American make materials
Even the telephone was an American made Western Electric device
Outsourcing to China and the mass import of criminal aliens are the root causes of American poverty from shifting wages away from workers and up to stockholders:
https://patrick.net/post/1381434/2024-06-01-grand-unified-theory-of-recent
51
WookieMan
2024 Oct 16, 8:54am
WookieMan
2024 Oct 16, 8:54am
UBI leads to nothing. Family formation drops because you're allocating the income to yourself. Why would you have a family if you don't have to work as much?
We were freaked out when we had our first kid. $70k per year combined (housing bust). Not god awful, but not good. Fast forward 15 years and you know what? It made us focus on making more to raise our kids.
Fast forward to this year and 3 kids, we'll make $500k this year. UBI makes you lazy. That's why it doesn't work. Lowers GDP as well as people need to be more thrifty if they don't want to work. That's why welfare and Section 8 are economy killers. If you don't have a job, you shouldn't be able to eat.
If you're disabled, fine I get it. But if you can read, write, walk and talk, you can get a job. Childcare welfare I'm okay with actually. Because you can get a job. They should dump the link card system as well. At some point people need the motivation to survive. If they don't then they die I guess. Sad, but that happens in the rest of the world.
There's opportunity galore in this country. There really is no excuse for a UBI.
We were freaked out when we had our first kid. $70k per year combined (housing bust). Not god awful, but not good. Fast forward 15 years and you know what? It made us focus on making more to raise our kids.
Fast forward to this year and 3 kids, we'll make $500k this year. UBI makes you lazy. That's why it doesn't work. Lowers GDP as well as people need to be more thrifty if they don't want to work. That's why welfare and Section 8 are economy killers. If you don't have a job, you shouldn't be able to eat.
If you're disabled, fine I get it. But if you can read, write, walk and talk, you can get a job. Childcare welfare I'm okay with actually. Because you can get a job. They should dump the link card system as well. At some point people need the motivation to survive. If they don't then they die I guess. Sad, but that happens in the rest of the world.
There's opportunity galore in this country. There really is no excuse for a UBI.
53
DOGEWontAmountToShit
2024 Oct 16, 9:07am
DOGEWontAmountToShit
2024 Oct 16, 9:07am
WookieMan says
This is another interesting take on that:
Family formation drops because you're allocating the income to yourself. Why would you have a family if you don't have to work as much?
This is another interesting take on that:
54
zzyzzx
2024 Oct 16, 9:15am
zzyzzx
2024 Oct 16, 9:15am
WookieMan says
True, but I'm thinking more along the lines of it's lazy people that want UBI.
UBI makes you lazy.
True, but I'm thinking more along the lines of it's lazy people that want UBI.
55
komputodo
2024 Oct 16, 9:58am
komputodo
2024 Oct 16, 9:58am
zzyzzx says
true, and the UBI will make them even lazier
True, but I'm thinking more along the lines of it's lazy people that want UBI.
true, and the UBI will make them even lazier
56
komputodo
2024 Oct 16, 10:00am
komputodo
2024 Oct 16, 10:00am
DemocratsAreTotallyFucked says
2 things....which Korea and far worse it what way?
It's far, far worse in Korea.
2 things....which Korea and far worse it what way?
57
komputodo
2024 Oct 16, 10:39am
komputodo
2024 Oct 16, 10:39am
HeadSet says
yeah, a little bit...
I'm astonished that 2 working adults cannot make more than $150k combined. Maybe I'm naive, but I really can't comprehend how if you're over 35-60, that you can't pull in $150k combined.
yeah, a little bit...
58
RC2006
2024 Oct 16, 11:34am
RC2006
2024 Oct 16, 11:34am
komputodo says
I would agree but I've seen some pretty lowbal offers made to tech positions fresh out of college iin high cost of living areas, like they are getting an offer that is what I would have gotten 25 years ago seemed laughable . Not sure how wide spread it is but with inflation i feel gen Z is getting fucked over pretty bad.
I do agree over 40 with experience are commanding a decent wage but with kids and inflation they are getting wrecked 150k isn't what it use to be.
HeadSet says
I'm astonished that 2 working adults cannot make more than $150k combined. Maybe I'm naive, but I really can't comprehend how if you're over 35-60, that you can't pull in $150k combined.
yeah, a little bit...
I would agree but I've seen some pretty lowbal offers made to tech positions fresh out of college iin high cost of living areas, like they are getting an offer that is what I would have gotten 25 years ago seemed laughable . Not sure how wide spread it is but with inflation i feel gen Z is getting fucked over pretty bad.
I do agree over 40 with experience are commanding a decent wage but with kids and inflation they are getting wrecked 150k isn't what it use to be.
59
HeadSet
2024 Oct 16, 11:55am
HeadSet
2024 Oct 16, 11:55am
komputodo says
I did not say that, Wookie did. I countered with "Many "married filing jointly" are single income earners. Especially with school age children."
HeadSet says
I'm astonished that 2 working adults cannot make more than $150k combined. Maybe I'm naive, but I really can't comprehend how if you're over 35-60, that you can't pull in $150k combined.
yeah, a little bit...
I did not say that, Wookie did. I countered with "Many "married filing jointly" are single income earners. Especially with school age children."
60
WookieMan
2024 Oct 16, 12:53pm
WookieMan
2024 Oct 16, 12:53pm
RC2006 says
$150k is like $80k after taxes, fees and expenses to keep the lights on and move you around. If you're not above $250k there's no travel, no splurging, maybe a $400-600k house with good credit and no debt.
We just decided to make more and did. We'll enter house poor phase, but with sports and activities our house is our hotel at this point. Kids are getting larger, not fat, oldest is 14 and is 6' already. We'll pay it off by the time they move out or stay however that works out.
Our plan is a top 1-2% earner plan. In 20-30 years our house with inflation will be $1.4M at least and paid off with $5M minimum in the bank/retirement funds. As a couple with no kids, we could live off the annual interest on that forever. Pretty sure my wife will work until she's 60 or so as she's greedy. Might eventually get shares of ownership. So this might balloon to $15-20M above that given the ages of the 2 owners. It's a $50M company now and my wife was 90% of that growth.
I'm not bragging. Sometimes it helps to type/talk it out.
X factor. Death. Just had a friends mom die. Hit and run. Roughest news I've heard in a while. Like really rough. The grandma, mom of the mom dies 2 days later. I usually don't cry about death unless it's my family. This grown ass man has cried a couple times today. I'm also pissed at the piece of shit that hit someone with a car and just keeps going. It was a no outlet subdivision, so hopefully someone got them on a camera.
His dad recently passed away too. Death happens, but fuck, your mom gets killed in a rural subdivision. Pull the fuck over and own up. You likely won't get jail time. Now once caught probably looking at 10 years at least. This is why I don't touch a phone in the car or mess with the radio. Just drive. Usual tangent.... sorry.
I do agree over 40 with experience are commanding a decent wage but with kids and inflation they are getting wrecked 150k isn't what it use to be.
$150k is like $80k after taxes, fees and expenses to keep the lights on and move you around. If you're not above $250k there's no travel, no splurging, maybe a $400-600k house with good credit and no debt.
We just decided to make more and did. We'll enter house poor phase, but with sports and activities our house is our hotel at this point. Kids are getting larger, not fat, oldest is 14 and is 6' already. We'll pay it off by the time they move out or stay however that works out.
Our plan is a top 1-2% earner plan. In 20-30 years our house with inflation will be $1.4M at least and paid off with $5M minimum in the bank/retirement funds. As a couple with no kids, we could live off the annual interest on that forever. Pretty sure my wife will work until she's 60 or so as she's greedy. Might eventually get shares of ownership. So this might balloon to $15-20M above that given the ages of the 2 owners. It's a $50M company now and my wife was 90% of that growth.
I'm not bragging. Sometimes it helps to type/talk it out.
X factor. Death. Just had a friends mom die. Hit and run. Roughest news I've heard in a while. Like really rough. The grandma, mom of the mom dies 2 days later. I usually don't cry about death unless it's my family. This grown ass man has cried a couple times today. I'm also pissed at the piece of shit that hit someone with a car and just keeps going. It was a no outlet subdivision, so hopefully someone got them on a camera.
His dad recently passed away too. Death happens, but fuck, your mom gets killed in a rural subdivision. Pull the fuck over and own up. You likely won't get jail time. Now once caught probably looking at 10 years at least. This is why I don't touch a phone in the car or mess with the radio. Just drive. Usual tangent.... sorry.
61
stereotomy
2024 Oct 16, 4:44pm
stereotomy
2024 Oct 16, 4:44pm
komputodo says
BOTH Koreas. In fact, South Korea is worse than NK, with a birthrate of around 0.5. That is fall off the cliff in the "Greatest Earthquake Ever Known" into The Land of Lost territory bad. I didn't even mention the Sleestack . . .
DemocratsAreTotallyFucked says
It's far, far worse in Korea.
2 things....which Korea and far worse it what way?
BOTH Koreas. In fact, South Korea is worse than NK, with a birthrate of around 0.5. That is fall off the cliff in the "Greatest Earthquake Ever Known" into The Land of Lost territory bad. I didn't even mention the Sleestack . . .
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I was thinking about this, and came up with the following. Tldr : eliminate income tax, and create a prosperity dividend instead of a UBI
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For UBI, the money doesn't magically come from nowhere. You have to take it from someone to give it to someone else. If you "print" it, then you take it from everyone equally, but it then gets spent and redistributed into the hands of business owners who benefit from the spending. This therefore hurts people who are not in the capitalist class through inflation. You can see this is true, because of our current minimum/living wage fight. If increasing GDP over time with inflation is supposed to help everyone, then the minimum wage shouldn't continue to be an issue, as more economic output distributed equally would tend to create additional higher paying jobs. Instead what we see is a reversion to a low paying service economy with more and more people bouncing off the minimum wage floor. At the same time, the wealth disparity is increasing, and the richest 1% have gained substantially more than the 99% below them over the previous 40 years. This can't be blamed on republicans, or democrats, or taxes, as taxes only take further from incomes, and don't ADD to people's incomes. Additionally, the trend has been consistent over both republican and democrat led presidencies and congresses.
So again, currently with a UBI, you will get inflation, which hurts savers, and benefits the 1%, as they get the money. So the bottom 10% will be marginally better off, the middle 89% will be markedly WORSE off, and the 1% will consolidate further wealth (as always). So what's the answer?
In my very humble opinion, a start to the answer is to eliminate the w-2 income tax, and instead gather that tax from income and wages paid by corporations. With the middle class no longer worried that every tax proposed will fiscally damage them, they will be willing to vote for social programs that come from tax revenues instead of from inflation. The tax code will be more fair, as corporations with actual lobbying power will fight amongst themselves to equalize taxes paid. Corporations will be the first to rat each other out from these double irish sandwich tax loops if it means they can lower their own tax burden, instead of jus relying on income taxes to fuel the government, and weasleing their way out of their fair share.
Then, we can do a UBI, but instead of a fixed base income, it can be a prosperity dividend. If the country does well, and GDP goes up, you get a bigger payout. If we have a bad year, your payout won't be as big, but we won't create inflation to erode your savings. Additionally, we eliminate 90% of the IRS having to focus on individual tax returns, and they can focus on corporate compliance. This also saves billions of dollars in paperwork and tax return costs each year.
A side benefit, all the government conspiracy theorist/haters will have a massive reduction in anti-government sentiment, as they are no longer under the gun from the IRS. And instead of people being against corporations (big AND small), we will be cheering for them to earn massive profits, and earn us a higher prosperity dividend.
Additionally, I could see the rich actually lobbying for HIGHER capital gains taxes, and lower wage taxes, as wage taxes would need to be paid every year, but capital gains can occur much less frequently.
What do you guys think?