patrick.net

MisdemeanorRebel says

I just don't get it.

MisdemeanorRebel,

This is not meant to be a Snarkey Question. I don't know about this stuff: can someone live in a trailer home, in a trailer park, without owning the trailer home (ie, as a renter)?

This should answer both questions:
In SoCal there are trailer parks in many prestigious areas even very close to the coast. So location location! The trailer might sell for 150k but the lot is leased from the park owner.
The trailer owner can rent out the trailer on the leased lot to another person for whatever they agree on.
Overall this arrangement can be financially advantageous for the renter as they’re getting a residence on the cheap without a long arduous commute. One of my managers did this exact thing for several years. He isn’t poor but was by himself and liked living two blocks from the beach.

B.A.C.A.H. says

This is not meant to be a Snarkey Question. I don't know about this stuff: can someone live in a trailer home, in a trailer park, without owning the trailer home (ie, as a renter)?

Hi BACAH, no snark detected my man. I am just exploring the issue myself. I am on a quest to live on the cheap, which is why I started looking at Mobiles and Mobile Parks.

I was actually shocked - I'm looking from the Panhandle to Central and Northern Florida - at the costs of Trailer Parks. I thought "Well maybe they charge $200 for trash and cable and pool use and grounds upkeep". Nope, it's $600+ at a bare minimum, and that's really the price of seasonal RV Parking, PLUS electric.

Interestingly, the price still doesn't make sense when you go off the water/inhabited areas with jobs and interesting things. Sure, you could pay lot rent of $400 maybe in Okechobee or somewhere up along the GA/AL border, but you could rent a whole house up there for the monthly price of financing a decent mobile + lot rent, or again, by and improve the land itself while financing the home.

Shaman says

Overall this arrangement can be financially advantageous for the renter as they’re getting a residence on the cheap without a long arduous commute. One of my managers did this exact thing for several years. He isn’t poor but was by himself and liked living two blocks from the beach.

That's true. In Florida you can't really buy anything near the beach very cheaply, except on the curve of the Panhandle, but it's really more Mangrove and Dirt than Beach (not like Panama City or Fort Myers or the whole East Coast/Keys which are beachy in the common form of the word). But you can rent/move your park model/home to a place and be right next to the water.

Although there are gems here and there, even on the East Coast.

There are some amazing places in the curve, lots of what are almost cenotes, esp. if you like to dive, and if you love boating/fishing. Some of the rivers and littoral areas are amazingly "Old South" out of some movie with the Spanish Moss. You do get a break apparently in the Winter from the heat a bit, too.

Stay tuned for some potentially crazy shit, there is still very cheap land in Florida. It just doesn't come with beaches and ice cream cones.

A manufactured home in an 'owned' park i.e. you either have shares in the corporation that entitle you to your lot without paying rent because you own it, or other ownership methods, is not such a bad deal. I think it is better than condos or townhouses, because even though you are close to your neighbors, you have your own unit and no shared walls.

We had some very well to do neighbors and we talked about owned mobile home parks with manufactured homes vs. regular homes or condos/townhouses. They wanted convenience living without big yard, big home hassles. They had the snob attitude that mobile home parks were too low brow for them. Guess where they wound up: a very nice mobile home park in a manufactured home. We laughed when we found out.

Of course, you have to shop the mobile home parks by reputation. In California, the ones close to the beach can be full of millionaires.

I recall pricing it out in the SF bay about 6-8 yrs ago. I felt like I could get a much nicer house for the same monthly payment, by going w/ a manufactured home. But, of course, manufactured homes depreciate (because they're built cheap and fall apart much faster than site-built homes).

Comparing the difference in net worth 30yrs later, comparing a similar real home vs manufactured, and assuming historical local house appreciation rates (4% CAGR in this area) the real home was a lot better.

The math on this type of scenario stuff is not simple, and it's easy to get wrong. I can see a lot of people doing the math wrong (and failing to view things from a net worth perspective, instead focusing on a monthly payment perspective.) and make the wrong choice, thinking they scored. But, the bay has high RE appreciation, and high space rents, which favor real homes. Other areas may be a lot different.

I have occasionally seen a unit for rent which seemed like a better deal vs local apartments / condos.

Hircus says

I recall pricing it out in the SF bay about 6-8 yrs ago.

For the longest time, my "backup plan" for living in San Jose ("Silicon Valley") was to live in a trailer park. There's lots of them around, many with Teslas and expensive European Sedans parked in front.

But trailer parks are an endangered species nowadays. I delivered to one in recent weeks that's a halfway between Samsung and Micron Technology's high rise Silicon Valley HQ, - a stone's throw from each. Oh My Gosh so many for sale signs amidst the status symbol cars, in a tight real estate market. It's clear that the park is soon to be closed for development. Like so many others have been. When it happens, local government employee labor unions will be thrilled at the new property tax assessments.

I remember when this happened in 2013:

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Palo-Alto-mobile-home-park-may-close-soon-4360464.php

I think they did close it. Ultimately this is the reason:

Lawyers for the park residents say the Jissers stand to make more than $20 million if they sell to Bay Area real estate developer Prometheus, which envisions building a complex of more than 150 apartments with amenities including a fitness center, clubhouse, pool and a pet spa.

I have a story.
My friend sells houses around Santa Cruz California.
She sold a guy’s mobile home for a ton of money recently.
1098 square feet 2 bed 2 bath $625,000
I was astounded and amazed.
The seller moved to Texas to buy a real house.

I think mobile home owners just prefer to have filing of freedom. They just don't like to filing to be anchored to one place.

When I was growing up in Florida, trailers and double wide's could be had for $5,000.00 or less. Today they are asking $50,000.00 - $100,000.00 for similar. Try and find a trailer park without a "land lease fee" or "lot fee" or "HOA fee".

You pay $50,000.00 for a trailer and you don't even own the fucking land underneath it.... You pay a monthly fee to the developer to use that land. You are a 21st century Serf. How is this legal? I have no idea.

And people are scooping them up. Yes you read that right.

MisdemeanorRebel says

Shaman says

Overall this arrangement can be financially advantageous for the renter as they’re getting a residence on the cheap without a long arduous commute. One of my managers did this exact thing for several years. He isn’t poor but was by himself and liked living two blocks from the beach.

That's true. In Florida you can't really buy anything near the beach very cheaply, except on the curve of the Panhandle, but it's really more Mangrove and Dirt than Beach (not like Panama City or Fort Myers or the whole East Coast/Keys which are beachy in the common form of the word). But you can rent/move your park model/home to a place and be right next to the water.

Although there are gems here and there, even on the East Coast.

There are some amazing places in the curve, lots of what are almost cenotes, esp. if you like to dive, and if you love boating/fishing. Some of the rivers an...

More importantly, how far from the beach do you have to be to get reasonably priced housing in Florida?

I wouldn't do a trailer park per se. I'd buy a dirt cheap piece of rural(ish) land.

My mom/dad did something similar in Navarre, FL (not beach, across the Santa Rosa Sound). They did it as a 1031 exchange from a property they sold down there. Bought the land and plopped 2 doublewide homes on it and rented them out. They had a lockout studio in one of the homes they could use when they were down there working on their other properties near Milton, FL.

I honestly don't understand the trailer park system and never have looked into it. The one's here in IL are pretty trashy, basically the classic stereotype trailer park. The panhandle FL areas I've been to can at least look pretty seedy getting 1 hour inshore from the gulf, but I may be judging a book by it cover just driving through.

Or just start your own small trailer park? https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/Sopchoppy-Hwy_Sopchoppy_FL_32358_M68382-26261

All 11 lots together look like $66k or whatever you could negotiate down. Flooding looks to be an issue, but not sure if that's due to hurricane or that river nearby. It's a swampy area. Either way, it would be hilarious to tell everyone you live in Sopchoppy, FL... lol. Looks to be a somewhat busy road to Tallahassee too. Been on it once cannot remember it well though. You can just be the trailer park, maybe make money or at least live for free.

Close to the gulf. Plenty of inland and gulf boating opportunities. You've got a couple protected marinas nearby in Carrabelle if boating is your jam. I didn't fly out, wife did, but Tallahassee airport seems decent and somewhat nearby. ~45 min away. No direct flights to places you'd want to go though. St. George Island is about 55 min away.

I have several relatives that live or have lived in trailers. They are in rural areas where they own the land the trailer sits on. It was far less expensive to have a trailer delivered than to build a house. Doublewides are actually quite comfortable. True no attic or basement, and only one floor, but good kitchens, baths, and living quarters.

Old joke when someone tells you they bought a house - "Do you need me to come over and help you take the wheels off?"

One Housing Hack for those willing:
-buy a cheap house on a large lot
-park a mobile housing unit of some kind out back (I have a 80's 38' Avion travel trailer for this purpose)
-rent out house to cover all or most of nut

Shaman says

In SoCal there are trailer parks in many prestigious areas even very close to the coast. So location location!

My mother-in-law lives in one with another old lady in a nice location 4 miles from us in Encintas, CA. It is an over 55 community and in a great location walking distance to stores and the local health center and about a 5 minute drive to the ocean. I'm always shocked when I walk into the place at how big it seems on the inside with vaulted ceilings and good floorplan.

Michael Cooke says

You pay $50,000.00 for a trailer and you don't even own the fucking land underneath it.... You pay a monthly fee to the developer to use that land

This sounds like the Tax Donkey in places like California, NY, Illinois, Texas who may own their home "free and clear" but still must pay a high property tax for the privilege of occupying the land.

Before Bush Sr. ruined the Florida economy by making all of the activities that attract people to Florida a luxury tax item.
90% of trailer parks in South Florida were owned and occupied by Snowbird Canadians.

I don't get why anyone would want to live in a trailer park either. But if I were going to live in a trailer, I would want my own plot of rural land to put it on.

Tenpoundbass says

But if I were going to live in a trailer, I would want my own plot of rural land to put it on.

I'd agree. Utilities to site can be costly though in rural areas is the only catch 22. Hence why there's trailer parks. Shared costs and lower the barrier of entry. Plus someone can make money off of it. A one off site can get expensive to the point of just building a house from scratch makes more sense.

B.A.C.A.H. says

This sounds like the Tax Donkey in places like California, NY, Illinois, Texas who may own their home "free and clear" but still must pay a high property tax for the privilege of occupying the land.

I was just looking at Texas real estate and the tax rate seems to be about 2.3%, though maybe that varies by county and city.

Seems pretty high to me, but then, there's no state income tax.

Off topic, but Redfin's price minimum makes no sense outside of Manhattan, Boston, and California. "The price is too low to show more information" and the land is $170k, LOL.

Michael Cooke says

You pay $50,000.00 for a trailer and you don't even own the fucking land underneath it.... You pay a monthly fee to the developer to use that land. You are a 21st century Serf. How is this legal? I have no idea.

But you don’t pay property tax which is just rent to the local government. Is paying the government like a serf better than paying a landlord like a serf? And your total expenses can be very low. It’s mostly never going to be a vehicle for wealth, but it could keep your outflow far enough down so you can start a business with the extra and make some real wealth!

People live in those because they are the best place to view fires and tornadoes.

What's the difference in Texas between a divorce and a tornado?
None; either way you lose the trailer.

Oh, here's a tip: If you want a double wide on the cheap.

Just get two single-wides they don't even have to be the same shape/type so long as they are old and cheap. Knock out one of the exterior walls on each of them then push them together. Finally, throw a large piece of tar paper over the entire top then hold it down with cinder blocks.

Done!

I've seen these in the mountains in N. Carolina.

Tenpoundbass says

I would want my own plot of rural land to put it on.

I would do this as well. In particular if I wanted to take my sweet time building a house on said property.

Having a piece of property in a rural area might appeal to some people, but most still want to be a few minutes from public transportation, conveniences, shops, restaurants and medical care facilities. Also, manufactured homes can be made to any degree of insulation and upgrade specifications desired. You could make a manufactured home a small bunker if you want, that when you close your doors, the world disappears.

Construction for condos and townhouses is so routinely crappy in California, you may as well just break down the walls and say hi to your neighbors. A mobile home property is better in that regard. You can spruce up your lot any way you like with upgraded home.

The real hazard in mobile home parks is the homeowner's associations, which can and do get corrupted, and the proximity of your next door neighbors. You really don't want the litigious or the whacko next door, but that can and does happen with condos, too.

WookieMan says

Tenpoundbass says

But if I were going to live in a trailer, I would want my own plot of rural land to put it on.

I'd agree. Utilities to site can be costly though in rural areas is the only catch 22. Hence why there's trailer parks. Shared costs and lower the barrier of entry. Plus someone can make money off of it. A one off site can get expensive to the point of just building a house from scratch makes more sense.

If you are doing a trailer or scratch built house, the utilities are extra for either. You have to pay for electric hookups, well, and septic setup, and then add the costs for either trailer or house.

Don't forget to include lots of wall space for your complete galleries of fuzzy dice, velvet Elvis portraits, and velvet big-eyed children and pets.

I used to date a woman who lived in a trailer park here in Sunnyvale. Yeah, lots of jokes from the colleagues at work.

The obvious downside is that you own the thing that depreciates (building) and rent the thing that appreciates (land). If you are one of those people who thinks "property values always go up" AND you think you'll be staying there for many years, that's a bad long-term "investment." An additional consequence of only owning the (depreciating) building is that you can't get a good interest rate on the purchase loan.

Her community is quite nice. The owner of the land has gone to great lengths to prevent owners of the buildings from turning them into rentals. There are strong requirements for maintenance of the yards and buildings, etc. It's nice to have a swimming pool, hot tub, pool tables, etc.

As for perpetually renting the land, I believe you get a 100-year lease agreement with a 3% (2%?) maximum yearly price increase. I think my friend actually paid some money to buy the lease from the previous owner. Her rent is less than what I pay in property taxes on the land I "own." If I bought my shack now (and reset Prop 13) I'd be paying nearly 2x to rent my land from the government.

Her place is a brand new triple-wide. Yes, it comes in 3 pieces. 12-foot ceilings, large high-quality windows and doors, etc. The kitchen has stainless steel appliances, "quartz" countertops, and a viking gas stove. Don't tell the California government, but the dishwasher has a rinse-and-hold feature and the master bathroom has a large soaking tub (bathtub and dishwasher snuck in from whatever state the building was manufactured in). If you're willing to pay $500K for the structure, you can get a really nice one! Given that it's mass produced and not constructed in silicon valley, your $500k goes a lot farther than standard buildings.

So, she's got a nice, new, and large home for less than the cost of building here in California. If she's only going to stay 10 years, she doesn't care about the land appreciation. And her monthly costs on living are 1/2 or 1/3 what she would pay on a $1.5MM mortgage. Further, she only waited 2 months for her "brand new home" instead of having to way a year for on-site construction.

That said, I bought my conventional Sunnyvale shack 17 years ago and, with the increased value of the dirt, have essentially been paid to live here. I do wish I had a modern structure, though.

Ceffer says

The real hazard in mobile home parks is the homeowner's associations, which can and do get corrupted, and the proximity of your next door neighbors. You really don't want the litigious or the whacko next door, but that can and does happen with condos, too.

Exactly. General Use Or Agra Zoning for me. You can also put on a shitton of Outbuildings, steel buildings.

When I see the "R", I wanna go more far.

This is my paradise right here: It's like Trump is God Emperor for Life. DIY, Muddin', Drinkin', and Show Us Yer Tits
Also Rocket Launch at 11:38 because this is like 15 minutes west of Canaveral, probably a Falcon launching Starlink Sats.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXRwY2zykNw

I'm down with the Aboriginal Anglo-Saxons (or Anglo-Celts). I wanna get as far away from Administrators as possible.

HunterTits says

Not out in the sticks.

Then it's only $500.

You can still buy land all over the South and within half an hour of the beach for $15k.

Yeah, you'll need water, but it ain't a desert like Cali, it's half-swamp. Ancient shallow sea full of limestone itself only a few feet above sea level, water not far below. So about $2000-3000 for that.
Electric is already down the road, that's about $2k, just another pole or two and a box.
Septic is the most expensive, call it $5k depending on your microclimate.
Clearling, I like it Jungle except for a driveway, circle, and swale crossing. $2-4k depending on how cleared you want it.

So $15k for the land, and $15k for the hookups.

But then you're on General/Agra Zoning, you can do WTF you like. You want a 12x20 carport and and a 12x16 workshop? Knock your ass out, no permit necessary. Get a horse, some chickens, Nubian Goats, or just let people park their boats and RVs on your property for $40/month.

Worst zoning law I've seen is you can't have more than half the square footage of your property in outbuildings. And that is only if it's under 5 acres.

The enviro baloney isn't taken very seriously, a few hundred bucks in non-Karened Counties (ie not Hillsborough, Miami-Dade, or Broward)

Not a Karen for miles. Stand your ground laws. Blast any fucker who won't get off your lawn and the Sheriff will give you a Good Citizenship certificate. A Sheriff who views Muddin' and ATV'ing on vacant land to be no big deal, and happy the kids are having beers and towing each other out of swamp instead of doing meth, views it as good clean wholesome fun. Rather than some Sierra Club Faggot.

Also, no Ghetto Trash. They have learned to stay out of those farmette areas the hard way. You might have to put up with ATVing on Saturday and Sunday though.

MisdemeanorRebel,
For, say, a brand new 1500 sq ft trailer, what kind of air conditioning bills would one pay to keep the place below 78 degrees? I'm guessing you can get a well insulated place and that you're not paying 27¢ kw/hr, but aren't you looking at something like $300/month for 8 months of the year?

MisdemeanorRebel says

I'm down with the Aboriginal Anglo-Saxons (or Anglo-Celts). I wanna get as far away from Administrators as possible.

I didn't realize there is mud in Florida. I always pictured just sand.

HeadSet says

WookieMan says

Tenpoundbass says

But if I were going to live in a trailer, I would want my own plot of rural land to put it on.

I'd agree. Utilities to site can be costly though in rural areas is the only catch 22. Hence why there's trailer parks. Shared costs and lower the barrier of entry. Plus someone can make money off of it. A one off site can get expensive to the point of just building a house from scratch makes more sense.

If you are doing a trailer or scratch built house, the utilities are extra for either. You have to pay for electric hookups, well, and septic setup, and then add the costs for either trailer or house.

Again, this is why my proven scheme of buying some kind of existing house is likely cheaper. You have utilities in place. I did it once with a property that I did not purchase but was sort of caretaking, which was a completely derelict house but had functioning well/septic/electric. The house I improved enough to function as studio space and had my trailer adjacent for hookups. This was 5 minutes outside of Santa Rosa in the middle of vineyards. I lived there free for 3 years with my paycheck piling up in the bank. I did it in Tucson with a parcel with existing funky mobile on it that I eventually trashed in favor of my old Avion. (Airstream style but superior in many regards). I eventually bought another identical trailer that I parked parallel enclosing a “courtyard”, with my wife’s canned-ham-trailer-drawing-studio at one end.
Hippie Hillbilly Heaven.
Forgive the Ohomen style personal disgorgement but this bricolage shelter thing is my long suit, having lived in warehouses, yurts, and trailers, cheap or free, for many years.
Misdemeanor, find a parcel with an existing structure even if it is not rentable or salvageable. Then bring your own mobile housing solution to the site. I may join you investigating the FL panhandle in a month or two. I have to GTF out of Cali and the Gulf sounds great.

SunnyvaleCA says

For, say, a brand new 1500 sq ft trailer, what kind of air conditioning bills would one pay to keep the place below 78 degrees? I'm guessing you can get a well insulated place and that you're not paying 27¢ kw/hr, but aren't you looking at something like $300/month for 8 months of the year?

I believe they're better insulated than expected, though probably not as well as a CBS. I've never heard anybody complain about the cost of cooling a single wide.

Robert Sproul says

Misdemeanor, find a parcel with an existing structure even if it is not rentable or salvageable. Then bring your own mobile housing solution to the site. I may join you investigating the FL panhandle in a month or two. I have to GTF out of Cali and the Gulf sounds great.

Hi Robert, hear exactly what you're saying. There's quite a few old homes, esp. those that get inherited by distant relatives from a passed retired Uncle who lived there a while and don't wanna be bothered up for sale. $55k, $85k, etc. in Mims and Christmas, etc. I just don't want to live in Orange or other Blue Wokey Counties so Christmas is out.

As far as I see, except for the occasional gem, other than saving some of the work I don't see much.

I'm looking up Saint Johns County way (not Saint Augustine which because of the various US News Best Places shit became Super Yuppie expensive) more so than the panhandle. My wife wants to be within an hour or Orlando, and I prefer to be within an hour of Brevard since I have a beach studio I lease out near Cape Canaveral, so it limits the choices, but there's still an overwhelming amount of properties that fit the criteria.

But if you take the time to hunt and are willing to see the value, you can really get some gems. My studio was $70k, half a block from the beach, it was an oddball unit in the building, the only studio among 1-2 Bedrooms. It really is a 1 Bed but was set up really wierd so there's a huge galley kitchen bigger than many older houses off the big room (but no door, though you could easily put one in). I got it because there was a crazy lady in there who let beachcombers rent floor space from her to crash, the place was smokey and old, but nothing a new floor and new paint couldn't fix for just a couple of thousand.

In any case, we'll all be living in an RV and trampling around until I find the spot, and just hanging in RV Parks until whatever lot is ready to go. Then we'll be living in the RV and an outbuilding or two until I decide on what structure to put down.

More thong & tits & Trump inspiration, this from Okechobee. I love those curly haired blondes, had a few as GFs when I lived over in St Lucie County to the east.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3Nm54n4BvI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaSlxJGXZg0

Ceffer says

The real hazard in mobile home parks is the homeowner's associations, which can and do get corrupted, and the proximity of your next door neighbors.

And another real hazard is the high land values. The park owners cash out to developers, the public employee unions revel in the raised assessments and revenues for their pensions and retirement medical, and the trailer owners are left owning a doomed white elephant.