patrick.net

@richwicks Agreed. All through my childhood there were telethons and dance-a-thons to cure multiple sclerosis, leukemia, breast cancer, what else? Diabetes? Anyway, in no case have any of these diseases been cured. Vaccines are a charade, always coming on the scene when the disease was on its way out. Or sometimes they just renamed the disease. On the whole modem medicine isn’t making anyone healthier. When was the last time medical advances improved health? They used to say they were working on a cure but now they aren’t even promising that. They can’t cure anything so the best they can do is pretend to prevent something we have no way of knowing would have happened without their “prophylactic.” That’s why they cling to their vaccines as the epitome of medical achievement. Their pure speculation “it would have been worse without it” is the best they can ever say.

Undoctored says

Their pure speculation “it would have been worse without it” is the best they can ever say.

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/blog/2022/fall-covid-19-booster-campaign-could-save-thousands-lives-billions-dollars Thats literally what they did in this "study". Take the "reported" efficacy of the vaccine multiplied by the number of people whove takent the jab. VOILA 3 million lives saved!

Undoctored says

richwicks Agreed. All through my childhood there were telethons and dance-a-thons to cure multiple sclerosis, leukemia, breast cancer, what else? Diabetes? Anyway, in no case have any of these diseases been cured. Vaccines are a charade, always coming on the scene when the disease was on its way out. Or sometimes they just renamed the disease. On the whole modem medicine isn’t making anyone healthier. When was the last time medical advances improved health? They used to say they were working on a cure but now they aren’t even promising that. They can’t cure anything so the best they can do is pretend to prevent something we have no way of knowing would have happened without their “prophylactic.” That’s why they cling to their vaccines as the epitome of medical achievement. Their pure speculation “it would have been worse without it” is the best they can ever say.

It may seem that wat but it's not true. Americans have become less healthy mainly due to their lifestyle choices, 20% one can maybe attribute to bad medicine. Most cancers were deadly decades ago, many can be cured these days or at least managed. Most premature babies died decades ago, today you can sustain and raise a preemie at 22 weeks. Surgeries are now extremely precise using laser guided robotic surgery. Even vaccines are useful. Whopping cough for babies prevents many deaths each year. I would agree though that big pharma has lost its way and overall became more and more corrupt and unhealthy for the patient, but that doesn't mean that medicine research doesn't make amazing progress each year. What it means is that you have to become you own advocate and pick and choose.

How does one separate the corrupted 'Rockefeller Profit Engine And Democidal Plot' from legitimate medical progress, documented with real research and not bogus, bribed peer review baloney?

When they decided to turn medicine into a regimented killing and political propaganda machine, they threw the babies out with the bathwater. Credibility is not the long suit of maniacs.

I have never been anti vax. but vaxes have become the means to an end of many varieties of psychos with their endless fiat monies. It makes negotiating health a rather huge mine field of strange choices.

Undoctored says

Vaccines are a charade, always coming on the scene when the disease was on its way out.

I disagree partly with this. Vaccines are provided when there is no pandemic to create an artificial herd immunity to kill the disease. Remember all those kids you saw in iron lungs from the 1950's? They most likely got polio from the vaccination program. The public wasn't told about this, they were just lead to believe polio was a problem, and their kids were unlucky..

But it did create herd immunity. Some vaccines are effective, but I don't think there's any vaccine that is entirely safe and there are various dangers depending on the vaccine. Some are live and attenuated (not supposed to replicate in a human - but CAN replicate sometimes), and dead (supposed to be impossible to replicate).

mell says

I would agree though that big pharma has lost its way and overall became more and more corrupt and unhealthy for the patient, but that doesn't mean that medicine research doesn't make amazing progress each year. What it means is that you have to become you own advocate and pick and choose.

But that's the point - we're NOT allowed to pick and choose. Children are being compelled to take SEVENTY vaccines to enter public education. It's crazy!

richwicks says

Undoctored says

Vaccines are a charade, always coming on the scene when the disease was on its way out.

I disagree partly with this. Vaccines are provided when there is no pandemic to create an artificial herd immunity to kill the disease. Remember all those kids you saw in iron lungs from the 1950's? They most likely got polio from the vaccination program. The public wasn't told about this, they were just lead to believe polio was a problem, and their kids were unlucky..

But it did create herd immunity.

You’re saying polio was caused by smallpox or whooping cough vaccination (they didn’t have many vaccines back then)? A necessary evil for creating herd immunity?

No, vaccines do zero good. Polio was caused by mid-20th century pesticides and other poisons, notably DDT, which they used to spray on everyone and everything. Polio receded as these poisons were curbed in their use. Two books on the subject:

DDT/Polio: Virology vs Toxicology

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/24238454-ddt-polio

The Moth in the Iron Lung

https://warfoo.com/the-moth-in-the-iron-lung-review/

.....ANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNND Smallpox cured itself ! ! ! ! ! ! !

Undoctored says

You’re saying polio was caused by smallpox or whooping cough vaccination (they didn’t have many vaccines back then)? A necessary evil for creating herd immunity?

No, I'm saying polio PROBABLY was caused by the polio vaccine. It was a live attenuated vaccine, which sometimes led to the disease itself.

I don't make any judgement of what "should have been done" but had it not been done, I wouldn't exist, and neither would you. Hell, if WWII didn't happen I wouldn't exist.

Undoctored says

No, vaccines do zero good. Polio was caused by mid-20th century pesticides and other poisons, notably DDT, which they used to spray on everyone and everything. Polio receded as these poisons were curbed in their use. Two books on the subject:

Vaccines don't do "zero" good. I know people that caught polio as children because they weren't vaccinated because the disease was considered to be largely extinct. He's my age, 50.

Misc says

.....ANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNND Smallpox cured itself ! ! ! ! ! ! !

Smallpox was simply redefined out of existence. Vaccines had nothing to do with its eradication. Measles, chickenpox, smallpox, monkeypox, shingles… it’s all a continuum of skin afflictions. What was smallpox yesterday is just called something else today.

Here’s a great video on the subject.

https://odysee.com/@katie.su:7/thetruthaboutsmallpox:9

richwicks says

Vaccines don't do "zero" good. I know people that caught polio as children because they weren't vaccinated because the disease was considered to be largely extinct. He's my age, 50.

Interesting. Where was he born? What were his symptoms? When did they start and how is he today?

Here’s a lecture by Suzanne Humphries M.D., who claims that vaccines did not eradicate polio. In the U.S. it came and went with use of highly toxic pesticides, but even then it never really left us; it’s still around by other names such as Acute Flaccid Paralysis or Transverse Myelitis.

video: Did the Polio Vaccine Really Eradicate Polio

On Reddit:

reddit: Polio wasn't eradicated, it was renamed. Vaccines never helped.

Undoctored says

richwicks says

Vaccines don't do "zero" good. I know people that caught polio as children because they weren't vaccinated because the disease was considered to be largely extinct. He's my age, 50.

Interesting. Where was he born? What were his symptoms? When did they start and how is he today?

Here’s a lecture by Suzanne Humphries M.D., who claims that vaccines did not eradicate polio. In the U.S. it came and went with use of highly toxic pesticides, but even then it never really left us; it’s still around by other names such as Acute Flaccid Paralysis or Transverse Myelitis.

video: Did the Polio Vaccine Really Eradicate Polio

On Reddit:

conspiracy=

jn6skr="" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/jn6skr/polio_wasnt_erad...

Polio is caused by a virus for which vaccination mostly eradicated it because it does not have reservoirs in which it mutates. Toxins can cause similar symptoms or exacerbate an existing illness, but ascribing the polio illness to them is close to absurd imo. You also mentioned DDT earlier which has been vilified unnecessary over decades leading to many more malaria deaths than necessary. These days it is considered mostly safe if used appropriately. Sure if you have a less harmful alternative that works equally well you won't use DDT, but for many in danger it beats catching malaria, which is a pretty brutal illness. It's always a risk benefit calculation which made sense for most of the initial vaccines, it started shifting into negative benefit territory when they put literally every childhood illness on the vaccination schedule, adding on diseases transmitted sexually which no baby/child needs and even more esoteric ones such as hpv and lastly covid. Sure these days you have a decent chance escaping serious illness completely without vaccination which is why I say it should be up to the individual, but make no mistake, there are still plenty of illnesses that claim way too man lives each year for which a safe and effective vaccine would be very useful, rsv and the flu for babies are just one example.

Undoctored says

Interesting. Where was he born? What were his symptoms? When did they start and how is he today?

He was born in Australia, but his father was very wealthy and dragged him all over the world - and that's where he got polio as a child. He seems fine during the summer, but in winter he has to use crutches. I've lost touch with him although we used to be good friends 20 years ago. He was born around 1970 and got it as a child.

Undoctored says

Here’s a lecture by Suzanne Humphries M.D., who claims that vaccines did not eradicate polio. In the U.S. it came and went with use of highly toxic pesticides, but even then it never really left us; it’s still around by other names such as Acute Flaccid Paralysis or Transverse Myelitis.

Polio, as far as I know (and I may be wrong) seems to be MOSTLY eradicated. Every case of an outbreak I've heard of in the last 10 years follows a vaccination program using attenuated viruses.

Viruses do exist, because otherwise, attenuated viruses wouldn't cause polio.

What happens is children get inoculated with an attenuated virus and pass it on to people who are not vaccinated. An attenuated virus (from my limited understanding) is a virus that has been bred in an environment that they can survive in, but which the human body would kill by just body heat. They are "live viruses", but are injected into a very inhospitable host. They are not supposed to replicate, but there's that nasty evolution and so on. Some of the viruses manage to survive and replicate, then infect other people.

mell says

there are still plenty of illnesses that claim way too man lives each year for which a safe and effective vaccine would be very useful, rsv and the flu for babies are just one example.

I have read (perhaps it's untrue?) that respiratory diseases need mucosal immunity for prevention. These vaccines need to be inhaled. Basically it's your lungs that need to have immunity, not your body. If it gets past your lungs, you're sick.

I'm a kid that was definitely intentionally infected with chickenpox as a kid - "get it over with" was the thinking because chickenpox as an adult is very dangerous, but not as a kid. I think it's hopeless to try to protect children from every possible disease. For diseases like sars-cov2-19 - it's stupid, children have practically no chance of dying from it. They should not be inoculated against that. The vaccine is more dangerous.

richwicks says

mell says

there are still plenty of illnesses that claim way too man lives each year for which a safe and effective vaccine would be very useful, rsv and the flu for babies are just one example.

I have read (perhaps it's untrue?) that respiratory diseases need mucosal immunity for prevention. These vaccines need to be inhaled. Basically it's your lungs that need to have immunity, not your body. If it gets past your lungs, you're sick.

I'm a kid that was definitely intentionally infected with chickenpox as a kid - "get it over with" was the thinking because chickenpox as an adult is very dangerous, but not as a kid. I think it's hopeless to try to protect children from every possible disease. For diseases like sars-cov2-19 - it's stupid, children have practically no chance of dying from it. They should not be inoculated against that. The vaccine is more dangerous.

Completely agree, most childhood illnesses and common respiratory illnesses are no problem for kids, but with everything there are exceptions, rsv kills or maims many babies each year, the flu is pretty dangerous as well for babies, so is whooping cough. I don't think you have to inhale to get benefits, as long as the illness stays in the upper respiratory tract it's harmless. The antibodies in the mucosa are usually IGA and those are only short lived during a vaccination or natural response, otherwise you'd have chronic inflammation and the IGAs would harm you in the long run if always present in high concentration. But IGG and IGM still provide protection and prevent worse illness throughout the body.

mell says

You also mentioned DDT earlier which has been vilified unnecessary over decades

Are you trying to tell me that DDT wasn't responsible for countless birth defects, hormonal problems, nervous system disorders and cancers? Or are you saying that potentially making your children lame and infertile is a fair trade off from malaria? Even now we're finding that DDT possibly effects people three generations later from exposure: https://aacrjournals.org/cebp/article/30/8/1480/671027/Grandmaternal-Perinatal-Serum-DDT-in-Relation-to

I'm either severely misinformed about DDT or you're downplaying the side effects.

DhammaStep says

mell says

You also mentioned DDT earlier which has been vilified unnecessary over decades

Are you trying to tell me that DDT wasn't responsible for countless birth defects, hormonal problems, nervous system disorders and cancers? Or are you saying that potentially making your children lame and infertile is a fair trade off from malaria? Even now we're finding that DDT possibly effects people three generations later from exposure: https://aacrjournals.org/cebp/article/30/8/1480/671027/Grandmaternal-Perinatal-Serum-DDT-in-Relation-to

I'm either severely misinformed about DDT or you're downplaying the side effects.

Not downplaying, the side effects and birth defect risks are real and terrible. However it was completely taken off market / avoided for a long time, though it has been extremely effective in preventing malaria and malaria deaths. You can buy mosquito repellents these days which contain a DDT derivative, N, N-Diethyltoluamide, (DEET)—which is extremely safe (yet carries some of the risk of DDT if abused) and would not have been developed/discovered without DDT. So it's no question that using DEET these days is better than using nothing, and the question is whether removing DDT entirely until the advent of DEET has harmed/killed or saved more lives, there is no easy answer to this, and I have studied a few articles by respected scientists who now say it was a mistake to entirely ban DDT. Please note that there is no incentive to come out and say this now since DEET exists and is extremely cheap as well, so the chances that they are "shilling" for an industry are fairly slim, as there is no money to be made (and lawsuits have expired). I cannot say if there was a better way to adjust the dosage to a minimum and keeping it on the market while there was no alternative, as it is known to build up in the food chain, what I do know is that people have been using the same arguments to not use DEET and caught Malaria while traveling, and from the few I know how caught it it has been a horrible, without strong available treatment life-threatening illness with long-term effects, and which has been killing between 500000 to 1000000 people globally each year since 2000 on average. Not everything is black and white, esp. not in medicine. I certainly did not mean to downplay the potential side-effects of DDT (though there is much debate about the risks being overstated), if it came across that way, it wasn't intended.

@DhammaStep if you're interested, here is one article: https://junkscience.com/2012/03/it-was-a-mistake-to-ban-ddt-in-1972/#:~:text=Yes%2C%20DDT%20was%20overused%2C%20and,Africa%20and%20other%20tropical%20areas.
Or here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1119118/
Not saying they are right, but it's definitely worth considering.

mell says

DhammaStep if you're interested, here is one article: https://junkscience.com/2012/03/it-was-a-mistake-to-ban-ddt-in-1972/#:~:text=Yes%2C%20DDT%20was%20overused%2C%20and,Africa%20and%20other%20tropical%20areas.
Or here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1119118/
Not saying they are right, but it's definitely worth considering.

"So, if DDT can be this successful, why ban it? The latest campaign stems from charges that DDT is an “endocrine disrupter” whose ability to cause harm (like Melville's Moby Dick and all excellent monsters since) is both indiscriminate and vast. The World Wildlife Fund and Physicians for Social Responsibility indict DDT chillingly: as a carcinogen, a teratogen, an immunosupressant, and so on.

All this would be worrisome if it were true. Conspicuously absent behind the campaigners' claims are any epidemiological studies to demonstrate adverse health effects."

Sorry, this reads exactly like "you can't prove the vaccine is harmful so it's not". I personally know people effected by DDT. I will never accept the use of DDT ever again. Find a better way, sure.

Edit: To be very clear. Yes, I believe the death of a million people a year is acceptable to not release chemicals into the environment that can effect every living organism in ways we don't fully understand yet.

DhammaStep says

mell says

DhammaStep if you're interested, here is one article: https://junkscience.com/2012/03/it-was-a-mistake-to-ban-ddt-in-1972/#:~:text=Yes%2C%20DDT%20was%20overused%2C%20and,Africa%20and%20other%20tropical%20areas.
Or here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1119118/
Not saying they are right, but it's definitely worth considering.

"So, if DDT can be this successful, why ban it? The latest campaign stems from charges that DDT is an “endocrine disrupter” whose ability to cause harm (like Melville's Moby Dick and all excellent monsters since) is bot...

Not disagreeing, interestingly though it comes from people who are critical of mainstream science claims, incl. climate change etc. So not the same agenda. Nobody should be forced to endure something they don't want, even in the US there are sprayings of insecticides or herbicides every day you have no say over which I don't agree with. What I am saying is that if I were in a high Malaria region (mostly in Africa) that I would take DDT spray if nothing else were available to protect myself, not on a daily basis, but for the duration of the stay. And I have applied DEET occasionally when summering in high mosquito areas to repel them. I certainly think that with DEET the benefits outweigh the risks greatly. But there should never be forced treatments or widespread aerial spraying with something like this imo.

https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/forecast-2023-get-out-of-the-way-if-you-cant-lend-a-hand/

Against the backdrop of a developing new economic depression, the public can no longer avoid seeing the calamity that the mRNA vaccines have instigated. Early death is in the news daily now and from exactly the adverse effects that have been derided as “conspiracy theory” by public health experts since 2021: myocarditis, blood clots, organ damage, neurological illness, unusually aggressive cancers, damaged immune systems. Meanwhile, America’s public health aristocracy — Dr. Tony Fauci, Rochelle Walensky, Francis Collins, Deborah Birx, Surgeon General Vivek Murthy, and many, many others will be compelled to testify under oath before newly re-constituted House committees and finally answer for all their dishonesty in the Covid-19 response saga. They lied about everything, especially the “vaccines?” It will go worse for them as public sentiment turns from submission to official bullshit to rage over a deadly fraud.

By then, the past efforts of this gang to mislead the public on Twitter and other social media will be well-documented. The exposed slime-trail of money and corruption between Pharma and federal bureaucrats will finally make an impression on the long-bamboozled nation. The mainstream media will be dragged into this morass and the public will begin to understand how the newspaper editors and TV news producers, too, were bought off by Pharma and controlled by the national security state to pimp for the Democratic Party and globalist interests outside the USA. This exposure could be the end of the great legacy news organs, The New York Times and the rest of the gang. Their executives will have to testify along with everyone else. They might not be prosecuted — in a gesture of respect for the First Amendment — but rather will suffer badly from their loss of credibility.

I think Kunstler is an optimist.

There are still way too many idiots who believe NPR, PBS, and the NY Times are somehow "journalism" and not pure propaganda.

Patrick says

There are still way too many idiots who believe NPR, PBS, and the NY Times are somehow "journalism" and not pure propaganda.

One is too many, but do you think it's worse today than it was 20 years ago?

I'm seeing steady improvement. Do you know that the average age of a television news consumer is over 65?

They had to turn off comment sections (or viciously police them) for a reason. Too many people understand the game now.

https://slaynews.com/news/study-vax-mandates-are-unethical-not-science-based/

In a paper published by the British Medical Journal, researchers concluded the mandates are not a science-based policy.

They discovered that the vaccines are failing to prevent infection and transmission and warned that the risks of severe side effects outweigh any potential benefit.

At the end u may have to start meds before u get sick:

“…people who are thoroughly 💉 [should] prepare themselves by making sure they have access to antivirals...it will go very, very fast…[at that stage even] early treatment may come too late"

https://twitter.com/DrSyedHaider/status/1608247624544526336?ref_src=patrick.net

Patrick says

There are still way too many idiots who believe NPR, PBS, and the NY Times are somehow "journalism" and not pure propaganda.

Yup. Of course, maybe it's just living in the mentally contaminated coastal California. Lobotomized liberals.

Patrick says

https://www.visiontimes.com/2021/09/21/ucr-engineers-mrna-vaccines-lettuce-spinach.html

Researchers at a U.S.-based university have received a federal grant to study whether they can genetically engineer plants to carry Messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines.

The University of California Riverside announced in a Sept. 16 article on their website a project to examine “whether they can turn edible plants like lettuce into mRNA vaccine factories.” The endeavor has received a $500,000 grant from the National Science Foundation and will be in collaboration with UC San Diego and Carnegie Mellon University.

We are going to need a bigger garden if we can no longer trust food from the stores.

https://slaynews.com/news/china-experimenting-mosquitoes-spread-vaccines-consent/

Scientists in China are reportedly experimenting with the use of mosquitoes that could spread vaccines like a virus, without the use of shots, or consent.

https://www.eugyppius.com/p/review-of-studies-on-vaccine-induced?publication_id=268621&post_id=95074428&isFreemail=true

Review of studies on vaccine-induced myocarditis finds that the Science we're meant to be Following pervasively obfuscates the risk of the mRNA jabs for young men
Of the few studies that even attempt to assess the population-wide risk of myocarditis following vaccination, nearly three-fourths neglect to include the proper stratifiers

https://thelibertydaily.com/italian-tennis-star-camila-giorgi-faked-vaxx-certificate-to-keep-playing-and-her-whole-family-is-pureblood/

Italian Tennis Star Camila Giorgi Faked Vaxx-Certificate to Keep Playing — Her Whole Family Is Pureblood

Patrick says

https://thelibertydaily.com/italian-tennis-star-camila-giorgi-faked-vaxx-certificate-to-keep-playing-and-her-whole-family-is-pureblood/

Italian Tennis Star Camila Giorgi Faked Vaxx-Certificate to Keep Playing — Her Whole Family Is Pureblood

Legend. And cute to boot. Haha

GNL says

Italian Tennis Star Camila Giorgi Faked Vaxx-Certificate to Keep Playing

And likely quite a few doctors worldwide faked themselves getting the jab as well.

https://twitter.com/DavidWolfe/status/1612994071362146309?ref_src=patrick.net

https://lionessofjudah.substack.com/p/tracking-the-pfizer-tagged-with-pcr

The "antidote for the jab" will likely be a Pfizer product.