patrick.net

Zak says

The vaccine/mRNA agent is less risky any way I have looked at it so far.

Look at it this way: your chances of dying from the virus are approximately zero unless you are already beyond normal US life expectancy and/or obese.

But the vaccine is so unknown that none of the makers will accept any liability for it. There has not been enough time to assess the potential long-term damage the vaccine may cause. Maybe everyone who gets the vaccine will start getting auto-immune disorders next year.

"The same can be applied to all the Covid death anecdotes, no?"

Oh absolutely. And please specifically note that I did NOT say to ignore any of these as a data point. In fact, I get pissed off when I hear and see them put the anecdotal bad covid deaths up. It's a terrible way to take advantage of the way our brain deals with risk. It's propaganda. I fucking hate it. It actually makes me want to NOT follow public policy because of my anti-authoritarian/bullshit nature. It makes my lizard brain want to believe the "government conspiracies" because my lizard brain has learned to be very distrustful of anyone that tries to bullshit me.

I think you can tell.. I'm not trying to bullshit you. I see that others with an interest in the public policy aspect of this absolutely are trying to bullshit and propagandize the whole situation. There is 100% a liberal political agenda to push socialism and nanny state while riding Covid. I'm firmly in the camp of that is absolute horseshit. But that doesn't mean that Covid isn't real.The propaganda doesn't invalidate that there is a validly produced and tested scientific product that has been created to combat it. And we are very fucking lucky the lady that pioneered some of this mRNA research stuck to her guns when she was getting shit on by her university. They probably were trying to fund some social research about white male privilege destroying the country or something instead...

Patrick says

Look at it this way: your chances of dying from the virus are approximately zero unless you are already beyond normal US life expectancy and/or obese.

"About 78% of people who have been hospitalized, needed a ventilator or died from Covid-19 have been overweight or obese, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said in a new study Monday."
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/08/covid-cdc-study-finds-roughly-78percent-of-people-hospitalized-were-overweight-or-obese.html
Add that to the age angle (average age of death from Covid is 80) and the probability of Death From Covid for a lot of us is effectively Zero.
And yet here come the Covid Passports.
And vaccination of children.

mell says

Viruses usually evolve to be less lethal so they can stay around longer, see rhino and other common cold viruses.

The Spanish flu is still around.

Zak, I was just nitpicking.
I took the Moderna shot 2x. I’m not avoiding it.
They gave us a printout about the Moderna vaccine, and I saw that it is actually not approved, but has an emergency approval.
I saw a new MD today and he said he was pleased that I took it.
He is also an employee of the “medical group” so he will not differ from official approved opinions.
For the record I
Don’t believe in the tooth fairy
Don’t believe Wuhan/Corona/Covid virus is a big deal
Don’t believe Biden won

@Patrick What you say is correct. There IS a possibility that the vaccine/mRNA agent causes long term damage. So after we acknowledge it, let's try to quantify it.

1) There seem to be some cases of the Astra Zenica vaccine causing an "enhanced" immune response. I haven't seen numbers on what % of people are having this happen in the first place. I haven't seen ANY data on if there are lingering effects, or if it is a short term thing. Given that there are other options, I chose to not use Astra Zenica if it was offered to me. I think I got Pfizer, and so it didn't matter.

2) The most at risk patients were/are the elderly/obese. They have a different risk tolerance to getting covid vs getting the vaccine. In other words.. what do you care if there is a long term effect 10 years down the road if you are only expecting to live 8 years, and the virus might kill you next week if you get it.. Again, radically different risk profile to manage.

3) Since the elderly and obese are getting it first, we get to have a bit more data as the rest of the population. This is actually pretty lucky. I pointed out earlier where there are clearly charlatans claiming a 12x death rate for the elderly up to a 100x death rate for the young.. It's easy to show with simple math why this is just pure falsehood being spread around. Since it is primarily the elderly making up the current death rate, a 12x death rate on the elderly would put the vaccine deaths around 6 million in the US alone... I think we might hear something if 6 million old people had just died over the past 3 months after taking the vaccine... I mean.. fox news might be on top of that...

4) It's not just this vaccine that the makers won't accept liability for. It's all vaccines. There is literally a special vaccine court, and a special vaccine compensation fund run by the government. Vaccines literally CAN kill you. I will never dispute it, and I don't defend the special courts. But, I do think the litigious society we are in is fucking us in a lot of ways, and this is one of them.

Everybody wants "safe" but the world is not fucking safe. Instead of recognizing that shit happens, and we can't always prevent it, even when we do our very best, we sue people and prevent them from helping thousands or even millions, because one person got unlucky with the odds. To me, the bullshit rises when we try to say vaccines are safe. Sorry, but there is a small risk it will kill you. This is the deal. BTW, yellowstone has a risk of blowing up tomorrow and killing 1/3 of the US population as well.. We live with a lot of very small risks. In the end, none of us gets out. The sum total of all risks adds up to 100%, and something kills 100% of every single person on this planet.

Ok. So there are risks. BUT we are trying to work on them. Mitigating the risk that covid spreads and mutates is something we can do something about. It's not a lawsuit to prevent bad behavior with someone, its literally humanity battling with a disease that has killed a few million people now. I'm not encouraging people to blindly eat bugs to prevent covid or to do some stupid extra risky stuff.

To me, it seems like a lot of people in science have worked real hard to get something in place to try to help us as the human race. There are some risks associated with the solution they've come up with. It seems like they've tried to apply engineering principles to create something with manageable risk, working with the human body as we understand it in aggregate today. There's 3 different versions (and more in other countries) of ways people have come up with to combat this thing.

On the other side of this risk profile, we have a virus. A biological force of nature. It is shaped by nothing other than evolutionary pressure (or maybe some help from some wuhan lab guys), but it is uncontained, replicating billions of times, and just ready for its next evolutionary step. And it IS killing people. Maybe not our demographic, but for sure the demographic of many people that we know and love. And it's causing long term damage to thousands or hundreds of thousands more. We can't bitch at it and tell it that it's so mean and it should stop. We can't sue it. We can't try a different version if we find that it mutates and kills more people. All we CAN do is try to find out how it spreads, and slow that down, find treatments to prevent it from damaging our bodies if we do get it.. or try to prepare our bodies to fight it when it is encountered (vaccine/mRNA agent).

If there was a bull running through your house, you wouldn't just say "oh he's nice, he hasn't even broken anything yet" You get the bull out of the house, IF you can, and you try not to get gored doing it... but.. you might still get gored... it's a risk.

Zak says

To me, it seems like a lot of people in science have worked real hard to get something in place to try to help us as the human race.

This an altruism that sadly has to be abandoned. I would say a lot of people in science USED TO work real hard to get things in place to try to help us as the human race. That currency of trust has been spent down by the Globalists and their maniacal plans of world dominance and population control.

Psychopaths routinely will exploit altruistic motives to attain non-altruistic and evil ends. Look at all the 'inverse' naming of organizations that do nothing related to what their altruistic and high flying titles suggest. Like, the Patriot Act had nothing to do with patriotism and everything to do with removing citizen rights, after a false flag.

"This an altruism that sadly has to be abandoned"

To reject that numerous people have been involved with positive intentions, and who would fail to report nefarious behavior in the production of not just one, but three different drugs is illogical.

Suppose we want to say this follows the pattern of the Tuskeegee syphilyus experiment. The only way that breach of public trust could happen is because it was confined and limited in its exposure. These drugs have literally hundreds of millions of uses now, have been through numerous studies, and the recipients have now seen tens of thousands of GPs and specialists. If there is a secret conspiracy that can withstand that kind of exposure, then just fucking give up because they've already got you 10 other ways.

If you want to rebel, go shoot somebody at the federal reserve, because they've already got you defanged by your wallet. If you eat that without complaint, how does this even compare?

clambo says

To me, it seems like a lot of people in science have worked real hard to get something in place to try to help us as the human race.

Why are these great people ignoring the non vaccine solutions like Ivermectin and HCQ?

Zak says

All we CAN do is try to find out how it spreads, and slow that down, find treatments to prevent it from damaging our bodies if we do get it.. or try to prepare our bodies to fight it when it is encountered

Ivermectin...HCQ

Right, those treatments are effective, but not nearly as profitable by a long shot.

https://c19hcq.com/

You can actually look at all the collected scientific evidence.

Zak says

"Give me one short term and one long term benefit of taking an experimental biologic agent?"

Short term benefit - mRNA stimulated antibodies protect you from contracting a virus. Not a maybe virus.. a real virus. studies DO show a highly effective protection from contracting said virus. Do you dispute this?

Just got back from a nice evening out with the wife. looking forward to reading other responses...

@Zak What's your angle? you seem passionate that everyone get this experimental biologic agent for a disease that is virtually harmless for healthy people?

I am more convinced than ever that this will all end even worse than it already is.

My plan is to continue striving for a balanced live, Family, Work, and Fun. I plan to stay healthy.

If a horrible new life threatening disease came along and we had a proven vaccine that would stop you from becoming a flesh eating zombie I would be first in line, but Wuhan is a cold, it was used around the world to restrict the rights and freedoms of human beings.

They used it to steal the US election.

I took a hepatitis vaccination when I was a kid because I lived in this "project" that had some junkies with an outbreak. Im not against vaccines per se.

But I'm not taking an experimental biologic agent for a new strain of the corona virus.

Too many horror movies start with an atomic radiation accident or an "experimental biologic agent".

Onvacation says

Im not against vaccines per se.

Me too. I don't mind normal vaccines.

This one gives me the willies for multiple reasons.

Patrick says

Onvacation says

Im not against vaccines per se.

Me too. I don't mind normal vaccines.

This one gives me the willies for multiple reasons.

Good Reasons, Like:

There is no fucking disease to worry about if you are an average person
The vaccine MODIFIES YOUR GENETICS
This is clearly linked to an effort to control your liberty and steal your wealth
See above. That is all.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2021/04/01/public-health-professor-reveals-the-reason-for-the-urgency-of-the-vaccination-push-pesky-states-reopening-creates-a-small-window-of-opportunity-to-push-the-vaccine/

Zak says

1) There seem to be some cases of the Astra Zenica vaccine causing an "enhanced" immune response.

So it's going to make my allergies worse!

Getting into the weeds in this thread. If you're 60 and under and in even fair health (maybe even slightly overweight) there is 0 reason to take the vaccine. There's a reason you get to 60. You've allowed your immune system to fight its own battles. And any other vaccines that most people have taken when they were young, had decades of research on any side effects and if they work.

You should never take anything you don't HAVE to take to stay alive. This vax is 100% one of those things not to take. There's a higher probability by huge exponential amounts that you'll die falling down the stairs instead of Covid if you're under 60.

Here are some other examples. A dog killing you. Lightening strike. Alligator attack on the golf course. Your kid or spouse stabbing you. A rotted out tree falling on you during high winds. Falling off a horse. A foul ball at a baseball game. For you CA guys a wildfire. Sitting in a storefront and a geezer puts it in drive instead of reverse.

Note that all the things I list are KNOWN activities. Anyone on this site can determine the risk of doing said activities unconsciously. Not one person on this site or planet right now can determine the true short term (under a year) and long term (years plus). Nobody. Indisputable. It hasn't even existed a year.

And don't say they can replicate other CV vaccines so they don't need as much time now. BS. It's not FDA a approved and even they approve a fuck ton of shit that is awful for you.

TL:DR - NEVER take anything that isn't proven to keep you alive. Supplements maybe, but just eat healthy and you'll continue to live. Covid won't kill you.

WookieMan says

NEVER take anything that isn't proven to keep you alive. Supplements maybe, but just eat healthy and you'll continue to live. Covid won't kill you.

@Wookie

Covid is now a religion. It meets all the requirements.

They don’t want people to be immune to Covid19. They want to sell the vaccine to people and keep them coming back for more shots. And that’s the BEST case scenario that more or less fits the facts: that the government is in bed with big pharma and dedicated to giving them billions of tax dollars in a scheme to make certain people wildly rich. The worst case scenario is that the vaccine is harmful in some systemic way that will reduce human population over time in a significant way. Either decreasing fertility or inducing autoimmune diseases and cancers that kill off many or most of the vaccinated.

And what’s the benefit? To avoid getting a nasty cold?
Fuck a bunch of that. I would rather exercise and eat right, take my vitamins and lift weights and just be healthy enough to fight off any stupid little virus.
Where’s the public health push towards ... health? It’s entirely missing from the discussion and in fact it’s denigrated as only an option for the most privileged people and thus racist and also uncaring about people who are unhealthy.
That is just one reason I know that the government and media don’t care a shit about people being immune from the virus, only that they get vaxxed

Shaman says

They don’t want people to be immune to Covid19. They want to sell the vaccine to people and keep them coming back for more shots. And that’s the BEST case scenario that more or less fits the facts: that the government is in bed with big pharma and dedicated to giving them billions of tax dollars in a scheme to make certain people wildly rich. The worst case scenario is that the vaccine is harmful in some systemic way that will reduce human population over time in a significant way. Either decreasing fertility or inducing autoimmune diseases and cancers that kill off many or most of the vaccinated.

This.

What's interesting is my neighbor was coming outta his house the other day and asked me if I got my shot, I told him I wouldn't even consider it, until it had gone through clinical trials and had a history of safety.

He said that him and his wife had their second dose the other day.

They avoid us like the plague now.

What's funny, is that last year, during the peak of covid, we were all having drinks together.

I thought that vax was gonna keep you safe.

joshuatrio says

He said that him and his wife had their second dose the other day.

They avoid us like the plague now.

It is as if people think getting the jab stops them from spreading the disease, but not from catching it. Since you did not get the jab, you are still toxic to them.

HeadSet says

joshuatrio says

He said that him and his wife had their second dose the other day.

They avoid us like the plague now.

It is as if people think getting the jab stops them from spreading the disease, but not from catching it. Since you did not get the jab, you are still toxic to them.

Yeah, this is crazy.

Or.

I'm so much more damn retarded than everyone else, I can't even begin to comprehend the level of sanity that the rest of the lemmings have.

joshuatrio says

They avoid us like the plague now.

They don’t think you’re making a moral decision. That you’re selfish for not wanting to be a lab rat to keep grandma safe. You can’t take people like that seriously. If they’re that politically charged and intolerant, who needs them?

I was thinking yesterday about it.
I posted this elsewhere here.

If Wuhan spreads so easily, and nobody has stayed in a monastery, don't you think that within a whole year you have not been exposed to virus already, possibly several times?

https://www.collective-evolution.com/2021/04/01/the-top-four-reasons-why-many-people-doctors-scientists-refuse-to-take-the-covid-vaccine/

The vaxxed are just butthurt that people like us prove it’s not necessary by our very existence. They don’t want to admit they were mindlessly manipulated into getting a shot that is, at best, pointless.

I had my second shot a few days ago. Nothing happened.

Booger says

The vaxxed are just butthurt that people like us prove it’s not necessary by our very existence. They don’t want to admit they were mindlessly manipulated into getting a shot that is, at best, pointless.

I agree with this. But I also don't care if people get the vaccine. Their body.

I get pissed if someone is going to shame me for NOT getting the shot though. That's my beef with the current climate. Or potential vaccine passports. Nobody has any right to my medical records for a flu bug. If I was walking around giving people Ebola, okay maybe I could see a reason to restrict me. Covid isn't deadly for pretty much anyone under 60. Those that die under 60 have severe ailments.

joshuatrio says

What's funny, is that last year, during the peak of covid, we were all having drinks together.

This is a wild ride, this psychological event. I believe it is a psychological experiment. Amazing 2 different people experiencing the same event can see it so differently. Truly amazing.

I still see the hardcore maskers in the park.

Shaman says

Where’s the public health push towards ... health? It’s entirely missing from the discussion and in fact it’s denigrated as only an option for the most privileged people and thus racist and also uncaring about people who are unhealthy.

I'll tell you what is racist, not acknowledging that a significant portion of the Black community is Vitamin D deficient and that it is a significant driver of their increased mortality. The Evil Elf Fauci has acknowledged personally taking over 8-10,000 iu of Vitamin D during the winter months. And yet he never makes an attempt to push elimination of D deficiency, through testing and supplementation, as a national policy.
Let alone using Covid to initiate public health policy that attempts to do something about our staggering obesity levels.

I REALLY liked this Mayo trained Dr.'s breakdown of the whole situation. (30 minute video)

original link
/
He talks about the suppression of all potential early treatments, which was mandatory in order to peddle their gene therapy bullshit. He personally has taken HQC and now Ivermectin prophylactically for months, and never gotten sick while seeing thousands of patients, an exposure level exponentially higher than what any of us would ever have. He says masks are shite.
This guy is so passionate and credible that I am going to share it with some Media Brainwashed True Believers and see if it can have any impact.
He also reminds me to get ahold of a little Ivermectin (and gives a tip how) in case the Bug sneaks up on me.

You guys are the same crowd that buys a house in a flood plain and then cry when your house floods. And youre pissed off about having to get flood insurance so you dont. Then, as fucking predicted, your house floods and the poor me cries start.

In the meantime you are crowing about how you can fill sandbags, and those other people should just up their sandbagging skills, since flood level predictions are just a government conspiracy...

Yikes!

Robert Sproul says

I REALLY liked his Mayo trained Dr.'s breakdown of the whole situation. (30 minute video)

This guy is great!

So they can't approve the vaccine if cheap and easy treatments like HCQ and Ivermectin are shown to work.

That explains a ton.

I got vaxxed with J&J more than a month ago. No bad effects whatsoever, and did it for convenience (can be Ted-Cruzish and tell that they can stuff their masks because SCIENCE). That is not all, however. I feel like crap today and will get corona tested tomorrow. If I am positive, it will be interesting. Before getting vaxxed, I spent hours in car with someone who went down with corona a day later, and did not get it.

Patrick says

So they can't approve the vaccine if cheap and easy treatments like HCQ and Ivermectin are shown to work.

That explains a ton.

NO vitamin/supplement recommendations, (D, zinc, quercitin, selenium, NAC have all been shown to be useful) or guidelines, to build resistance are being suggested. NO early treatments are being investigated.
They are using Cass Sunstein’s Nudge Theory to manipulate us into their “vaccines” (Shortages! Rich people are cheating!) instead of using it to encourage much needed dietary reforms.
These people are monsters.

Rb6d says

I got vaxxed with J&J more than a month ago. No bad effects whatsoever, and did it for convenience (can be Ted-Cruzish and tell that they can stuff their masks because SCIENCE). That is not all, however. I feel like crap today and will get corona tested tomorrow. If I am positive, it will be interesting. Before getting vaxxed, I spent hours in car with someone who went down with corona a day later, and did not get it.

I know people who tested positive and got Covid right after their first shot (some took the single shot one and some were scheduled to come back for their 2nd shot). I find suspect (even for those not fully vaccinated yet) that they caught Covid right after the shot after evading it for over a year. Also not social butterflies or world travelers. Definitely odd.