patrick.net

The Great Commission is a cornerstone of Christianity.

election2020 says

Christianity is already too big. Hindooo/Muslim and Christianity should let startup religions survive and not use their power to create monopolies.
If Jesus is not satisfied with 2 Billion followers, He will never be satisfied as greed has no end.He should instead work best to "save them" as proselytize dummies claim.

Only wimps fear competition.

MisdemeanorRebel says

The Great Commission is a cornerstone of Christianity.

election2020 says

Christianity is already too big. Hindooo/Muslim and Christianity should let startup religions survive and not use their power to create monopolies.
If Jesus is not satisfied with 2 Billion followers, He will never be satisfied as greed has no end.He should instead work best to "save them" as proselytize dummies claim.

Only wimps fear competition.

Anti Trust laws improve competition and not destroy it.
Monopolies are by nature anti competitive.

I think Walmart sells remote control water buckets to place over the door for the Jehovah's Witnesses. You can use your cell phone bluetooth to trigger them from inside.

election2020 says

It seems they have hired Korean folks to harass random people(They have pastors of every ex-religion converts and languages, including Punjabi Sikhs) with pretty pathetic pitch " Succumb to Jesus or you go to hell, Jesus is only savior".

The downside to Christianity is you do have to get out and stump for Jesus.
But on the upside for humanity, they wont chop your head off, if you don't convert. Nor will do any honor killings, or throw acid in unsuspecting people's faces.
Where as Catholicism, the Priest doesn't command everyone to go spread the gospel, but they do expect their VIG.
Just thank them for doing their duty, and send them on their way.


election2020 says

Christianity is already too big. Hindooo/Muslim and Christianity should let startup religions survive and not use their power to create monopolies.

Now maybe, and I'm just thinking out loud here. But perhaps you moved to the wrong fucking country, if you're put out by other people's Religion.
It's one of the tenets of our Constitution. It's quite possibly why an angry mob hasn't formed in the street and ran you out of town on pole.

I think they have every right to promote their religion, But take a cue and stop forcing your ideas on others and not take advantage of someone's politeness.
Also I have to give that, They are always polite and well prepared as salesman, But they make very derogatory remarks about other paths by telling You will go to hell unless you chose our path.
As Sikh religion considers every path to be equally good as long as it doesn't involve a corrupt middleman(Many times violated by vested Sikh interests) , This seems very disrespectful.

US is quite good compared to communist , Islamic or Hindooo nation that's why people flock here... Missionaries are just little annoyance, nothing serious... But they tend to make Christians look pathetic.

This "my path is only right one" flies directly in face of Sikhi and US constitution of freedom of religion(if enforced).
Now Christians have been tolerant, But underlying "superiority" is nauseating.

Here is essence of Sikhi, that every righteous path is good.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPtPN1wlfeA
Some call the Lord ‘Ram, Ram’, and some ‘Khuda’.
Some serve Him as ‘Gusain’, others as ‘Allah’.
He is the Cause of causes, and Generous.

He showers His Grace and Mercy upon us.
Some pilgrims bathe at sacred shrines, others go on Hajj to Mecca. Some do devotional worship, whilst others bow their heads in prayer.

Some read the Vedas, and some the Koran. Some wear blue robes, and some wear white.
Some call themselves Muslim, and some call themselves Hindu. Some yearn for paradise, and others long for heaven.

Nanak says: One who realizes the Hukam of God’s Will knows the secrets of his Lord Master”.

Name me one religion that isn't annoying.

Ceffer says

Name me one religion that isn't annoying.

This is true statement.

Tenpoundbass says

The downside to Christianity is you do have to get out and stump for Jesus.
But on the upside for humanity, they wont chop your head off, if you don't convert. Nor will do any honor killings, or throw acid in unsuspecting people's faces.

It was exactly this that gave me new respect for Christianity after 9/11.

Christianity is an inoculation against Islam. A believing Christian will not become a Muslim. And that's a wonderful thing for humanity.

God’s biggest problem is that He has to deal with people. And people can be a real mess. Even people who believe might be terrible at getting the truth out there. And it sounds like what the Sikh proselytizer said was actually offensive to you. Pity. If you’re actually interested in what Christians are suppose to believe, read a New Testament. If you’re still meh about it, then no big deal. At least you learned something and are better informed.

I read the whole bible in 2000.

The most impressive parts were:

- the first five books (the Torah)
- Ecclesiastes
- Ezekiel (wtf?)
- the Gospel (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, after that it's kind meh imho)

I can see how the Torah and Gospel would really inspire people. Ecclesiastes is more in line with my own real opinions. Ezekiel describes aliens landing and moving around. Can't explain that.

I read the Koran too and found it extremely tedious and hectoring. "Believe or burn in hell" over and over.

What will really blow your mind is where the older books appear to foretell the coming of Jesus. They even got specifics correct about his birth and his death: born in Bethlehem, died from a spear thrust but none of his bones were broken. And keep in mind that these were written more than a thousand years apart. Even Job said something prescient in the midst of his tortures:
“I know that my redeemer lives, and that in the end he will stand on the earth.”
‭‭Job‬ ‭19:25‬ ‭NIV‬‬

election2020 says

Anti Trust laws improve competition and not destroy it.

Does that mean if only 10% of the population is Communist or Socialist, the Government gets to pick people at random and tells 10% of them to join the Naxalite party in the spirit of "Antitrust"?

Big difference between a Corporate Monopoly in an industry, and personal beliefs.

MisdemeanorRebel says

Naxalite party

I had not heard of them, thanks. https://www.britannica.com/topic/Naxalite

Shaman says

the older books appear to foretell the coming of Jesus

Well, yes, but cynical me suspects people may have played with the texts to make things work out to justify Christianity. Hard to tell from a 2,000 year distance.

Shaman says

God’s biggest problem is that He has to deal with people. And people can be a real mess. Even people who believe might be terrible at getting the truth out there. And it sounds like what the Sikh proselytizer said was actually offensive to you. Pity. If you’re actually interested in what Christians are suppose to believe, read a New Testament. If you’re still meh about it, then no big deal. At least you learned something and are better informed.

The problem with faith is that nothing can be proven as it is not science.
As long as faith produces better humans, we should keep it.(Communism seems to mostly produce sadists)

Sikh religion said that "statues" shouldn't be worshiped. The "formless God" which Sikh religion claims is as hypothetical as Bharti religion founds in a "stone statue".
The only reason Sikh gurus proposed it so that it will help to get rid of middleman owning that "statue" and profiting from it. The shrewd businessman in Sikh religion found another way to profit, That is different matter.

I find it ridiculous somebody saying my path is better on theoretical aspects of religion.
Only proof is in pudding , and the pudding is "nicer caring humans"... That's what religions should be measured on for effectiveness.

The Christian claims that only Jesus can help with after life is quite ridiculous... Where is the proof?.. We have no proof that after life exists.
... It is best if faith is used to create good humans..

My beef with Hindoo/ISIS is that they have appropriated existing Bharti religious structure and dirtied it with cruelty.

Grace, unmerited favor. Nothing more.

Tell them to go kick rocks.

Patrick says

Tenpoundbass says

The downside to Christianity is you do have to get out and stump for Jesus.
But on the upside for humanity, they wont chop your head off, if you don't convert. Nor will do any honor killings, or throw acid in unsuspecting people's faces.

It was exactly this that gave me new respect for Christianity after 9/11.

Christianity is an inoculation against Islam. A believing Christian will not become a Muslim. And that's a wonderful thing for humanity.

Sikhs know the cruelty of hard Islam better than anybody, Christian experiences are quite mild compared to us.
People were paid "money" for every Sikh head brought to Islamic Brutal dictators.

But Christianity lacks this aspect of Sikh religion on tolerance. Sikhs believe every religious path is equally good to reach to God.
Christianity definitely have less brutality than Islam on conversions, But compared nothing with Sikh religion in defending freedom.
(Sikh Gurus gave life for another religion they didn't agree with just to defend freedom)

I will give credit to Bharti religions that they didn't do any conversions untill last few decades when Hindooo took over Bharat.

MisdemeanorRebel says

election2020 says

Anti Trust laws improve competition and not destroy it.

Does that mean if only 10% of the population is Communist or Socialist, the Government gets to pick people at random and tells 10% of them to join the Naxalite party in the spirit of "Antitrust"?

Big difference between a Corporate Monopoly in an industry, and personal beliefs.

Religion is business too. I heard that Vatican has endowment worth few trillion which they earn yearly profit on.
Mormons have $100B invested.
Others are similar.

I remember that before 9/11 there were tons of Black athletes/entertainers that were trying to be anti-establishment by converting to Islam.

After 9/11, that nonsense stopped.

Jesus greedy for followers? That's a new one. First I enjoy hanving spirited debates with the sort you ran into. You have to have some fun with it and take it for what it is. They genuinely think they are doing The Lord's work.

Religions are run by men (and women) they all have their merits and their faults. The teachings of Jesus, like other enlightened before or after him, are timeless. For me personally, he truly was the Son of God. Knowing that having a personal relationship with him has brought me much Joy. I want others to know who Jesus is so they can experience the same Joy. The joy of living simply. Of serving your fellow man. Of knowing your loved. Of striving to be a better person.

Even if you don't belive Jeuse was the Savior, that's OK. Seek your own truth. Agree or disagree. I respect your right to worship a you wish. So does my chosen faith. (Roman Catholicim)

"The Church's bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:

All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .

The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."

-CCC sec 842 & 843

We have far more in common than not. Truth is truth irrespective of the faith through which it is found. I am not God so I cannot presume your fate after leaving this realm anymore than I can presume my own. God is infinite. God is merciful. And therfore there are many paths to salvation. For me I try to follow Jesus example. I like his message, irrespective of how it's been perverted and coopted over the years for political gain and personal glory. He's my savior and if you belive that too, great. If not thats fine also. Just treat your fellow human being well and the rest will work itself out in his time by his plan. To each their own.

@GreaterNYCDude

Sikh religion accepts all paths are right including Christianity.
Only The missionaries target everyone else telling that “ You go to hell and bad stuff happen to you if you don’t follow Jesus”.
If they promote Christianity by showing positives of it and trained to not harass random unsuspecting people , I have no objection.

These people behave like amway agents building a pyramid of followers for them.(Everybody runs away from these folks ).
The missionaries will always have church pastor name and address .. They are not serving Jesus but helping pastor meet the quota.
If someone is interested in Sikhi , I will tell him go research online and then go to any Gurudwara you like and become Sikh.
Nobody needs to make anybody Sikh. You live like a Sikh you are Sikh.


In cities like Seoul they have loud speakers repeating this nonsense non stop with graphic pictures showing people burning in hell.
They spoil the whole mood of visiting beautiful churches and Buddhist temples in Asian cities.
(Shanghai doesn’t have it, But they are oppressive which is other extreme)

Now tell me How this is any better than Islam converting by sword?

Watch this to see why superiority claims of Christianity’s conversion idiots are infuriating for Sikhs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPtPN1wlfeA

Nobody knows what happens after death. It’s the Great Mystery that humans have attempted to explain in myriad different ways for millennia. Although I am a follower of Christ, I am not slavish to Christian religion dogma. The Bible is a collection of stories about God’s interaction with people and their interactions with each other. It’s unique from other religious texts in one important aspect: the heroes of the Bible are treated as the fully human and very flawed people who we can all recognize in ourselves. The stories are full of people making mistakes, even participating in bad or evil actions. Sometimes these are the very giants of the faith who are frequently cited as heroes of the faith. Yet their flaws and mistakes aren’t covered up but rather highlighted by the text. And the text was written over the course of thousands of years, not all at once by one camel herder with an epiphany. Further, the veracity of the stories have been proven over and over with archaeological evidence that’s been uncovered over the centuries.

That said, I don’t believe that the Bible flat out says that you have to be a Christian or baptized or any of that to escape damnation. Even as Jesus was dying on the cross, a thief who was crucified next to him stated his belief in Him and Jesus assured him of a place in His kingdom. That’s the model: relinquish control and accept the infinite Grace, receive salvation. The hard part comes later when you try to use Jesus as a model for your own behavior. 99% of people can’t manage anything close.

Different belief systems may also contain elements of the truth. Like the five blind men examining the elephant, one might find the tail and compare it to a snake, or the foot and compare it to a pillar. Still another might examine the broad side and declare that the elephant is like a wall. Who is correct? Well they all are, sort of.

Same with religions. It’s man’s attempt to understand the mind of God. It’s doomed to failure, just as surely as an ant could never understand how to build a microchip. That’s why faith is so important. We can’t understand the entirety of this baffling universe in which we live. But we can have faith that there’s a guiding Presence which has a reason for it all, and cares for us, and has a place for us and something for us to do after death. Whether that’s an eternity of harp strumming (cartoonish) or reincarnation or something even beyond our wildest imaginations, we will all find out someday. In the meantime, humility is very important, as everything we know about the universe is still such a tiny amount.

@Shaman
I love openness of Christianity along with its beautiful traditions.
Christianity should control this vile attempt to increase followers.This greed is going to make them lose even the ones they have as more people are identifying in Christian countries as non religious.(Reason for west’s decline as Christianity is force for good if practiced properly.. It helped west a lot to become what it is today)

I had my target on Hindoo cult for spoiling beautiful Bharti religions for selfish interest. Christianity if let these vile missionaries run amuck will do ISIS/Hindooo like job for Christianity.

By the way I have no problem with people becoming Christians or Vice versa but they should stop Amway like harassment based marketing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyyQj1Z25eI
Now just watch this video. How they try to use deceit to "convert people in India".
They can get followers for short run, But in the long run they will make Christianity disappear as this will become religion of "stupid people" who openly challenges field of science or as a matter of fact any reality.

It is already happening the reason that educated people in west are leaving Christianity in droves as it is just becoming a slogan and means to "profit" and smart people can see through it. This is not problem with core principles of Christianity but conduct of people running the show.
(Like the Pope aligning with communists, How immoral is that?)

https://www.pewforum.org/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christianity-continues-at-rapid-pace/
The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip. In Pew Research Center telephone surveys conducted in 2018 and 2019, 65% of American adults describe themselves as Christians when asked about their religion, down 12 percentage points over the past decade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_Christianity_in_various_countries
In Quebec, since the Quiet Revolution, over 500 churches (20% of the total) have been closed or converted for non-worship based uses.[29] In the 1950s, 95% of Quebec's population went to Mass; in the present day, that number is closer to 5%.[30] Despite the decline in church attendance, Christianity remains the dominant religion in Quebec, where 82.2% of people were Christians, according to 2011 National Household Survey.[31]

@election2020

Then we generally agree. I'm not a fundamental Bible thumper, but I understand why they do what they do. Sorry thoes types annoy you. As I say, the few times they've tried to pester me, I've had some fun with it.

Should they be harassing people? Of course not. Do they give Christanity as a whole a bad name... obviously that's your perspective, and I can't exactly disagree. They can be annoying for sure.

How is it better than the sword? Well at least if they try to stop me on the corner I can politely ignore them and go on my way without being (physically) assaulted and covered in my own blood.

Christianity, like many faiths, is fractured and has been for centuries. I'm not going to convince a religious zealot the follies of his / her ways. If they want to stand on a street corner yelling that the apocalypse is nigh and were are all dammed for eternity if we do not repent... let them yell.

GreaterNYCDude says

@election2020

Then we generally agree. I'm not a fundamental Bible thumper, but I understand why they do what they do. Sorry thoes types annoy you. As I say, the few times they've tried to pester me, I've had some fun with it.

Should they be harassing people? Of course not. Do they give Christanity as a whole a bad name... obviously that's your perspective, and I can't exactly disagree. They can be annoying for sure.

How is it better than the sword? Well at least if they try to stop me on the corner I can politely ignore them and go on my way without being (physically) assaulted and covered in my own blood.

Christianity, like many faiths, is fractured and has been for centuries. I'm not going to convince a religious zealot the follies of his / her ways. If they want to stand on a street corner yelling that the apocalypse is nigh and were are all dammed for eternity if we do not repent... let them yell.

@GreaterNYCDude
My annoyance is minor problem. What I don't like is beautiful religion like Christianity destroyed by these idiots and replaced with communism.
I fear that lack of religiosity leads to vile communism.
West with Christianity as leading "source of government principles" has been good to world in 20th century compared to communism.

GreaterNYCDude says

How is it better than the sword? Well at least if they try to stop me on the corner I can politely ignore them and go on my way without being (physically) assaulted and covered in my own blood.

Yes, that.

I'll take Christian fundamentalists over Muslim fundamentalists any day.

I heard many cases like that.
Greed/Violence to convert someone is futile.
Show the goodness to convert if you have to do this stuff anyway.
https://mobile.twitter.com/LastAM77/status/1381451898755153922

LAM
@LastAM77
In 2018 I heard that 2 guys from my locality in my hometown converted to Xtianity and they received 15K rupees each.
After receiving money they converted back to Hinduism and used that money for Bhandaara for Kaanwariyas.

Ultimate BasedMax.

farmer2021 says

Sikhs know the cruelty of hard Islam better than anybody, Christian experiences are quite mild compared to us.

Look at Africa, they kidnap girls from schools and rape them.

farmer2021 says

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip. In Pew Research Center telephone surveys conducted in 2018 and 2019, 65% of American adults describe themselves as Christians when asked about their religion, down 12 percentage points over the past decade.

Only part of the calculation; the non-religious are way under the replacement birthrate; the religious are well above 2.1, some even at 3 or more.

MisdemeanorRebel says

farmer2021 says

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip. In Pew Research Center telephone surveys conducted in 2018 and 2019, 65% of American adults describe themselves as Christians when asked about their religion, down 12 percentage points over the past decade.

Only part of the calculation; the non-religious are way under the replacement birthrate; the religious are well above 2.1, some even at 3 or more.

Either the religion is carrying to young people or there is not a whole difference between fertility.
https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/generational-cohort/younger-millennial/

MisdemeanorRebel says

farmer2021 says

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip. In Pew Research Center telephone surveys conducted in 2018 and 2019, 65% of American adults describe themselves as Christians when asked about their religion, down 12 percentage points over the past decade.

Only part of the calculation; the non-religious are way under the replacement birthrate; the religious are well above 2.1, some even at 3 or more.

Either the religion is carrying to young people or there is not a whole difference between fertility.
https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/generational-cohort/younger-millennial/

Government education also tries to downplay religion, So that may be reason too.

farmer2021 says

got inconveniently caught up with "proselytize Christian idiots" somewhere in bay area.
It seems they have hired Korean folks to harass random people

Korean converts are fairly outgoing about expressing their faith. I worked at a Christian camp in upstate New York one summer during college, and we had a Korean church up there for a week. They were VERY big on prayer and emotion. So I think your problem is with the Korean church, although they are certainly not the only group who proselytizes.

I also did some of that during another summer, but I'm a quite guy, so my approach was to talk about God as an organic part of 1-on-1 conversations, and I found most people to be very receptive.

I understand why many take the fire insurance route when it comes to proselytizing, but it's certainly not the only way to share Christ with someone.

NuttBoxer says

farmer2021 says

got inconveniently caught up with "proselytize Christian idiots" somewhere in bay area.
It seems they have hired Korean folks to harass random people

Korean converts are fairly outgoing about expressing their faith. I worked at a Christian camp in upstate New York one summer during college, and we had a Korean church up there for a week. They were VERY big on prayer and emotion. So I think your problem is with the Korean church, although they are certainly not the only group who proselytizes.

I also did some of that during another summer, but I'm a quite guy, so my approach was to talk about God as an organic part of 1-on-1 conversations, and I found most people to be very receptive.

I understand why many take the fire insurance route when it comes to proselytizing, but it's certainly not the only way to share Christ with someone.

As I said before they were very polite but persistent and didn’t let me escape from their book reading until I basically got up and said I had to go.

It is a minor issue. I don’t want to be seen as major irritant.
But I do felt like telling them “Sikh Faith considers all paths including shown by Jesus as correct” .. So Jesus is not the only respected one for us.. Actually all are.
I just didn’t want to be rude. They just need to present positives and stop saying anything about other faiths.

https://twitter.com/noconversion/status/1387847523818213377