patrick.net

pudil says

Patrick, why do you say ability to feel pain is when abortion should be banned? Even if this could be determined precisely (it can’t) this is arbitrary. I love a good steak, a cow has a more developed neural system then even a full term baby. I don’t think it’s wrong to kill cows.

The problem with abortion isn’t just the fact you are killing a human. It’s what it does to our whole culture. It takes every human’s inherent right to life and replaces it with a formula that takes how inconvenient another human is and divides it by how old ito determine if it’s okay to kill or not.

The question for me is whether the fetus is human or not. I say a fertilized egg is not human yet. It's just a fertilized egg. At some point it becomes human, so the question is when. Maybe when it first has the ability to feel pain. I'm just guessing on that.

Certainly a baby about to be born is fully human and now Minnesota allows the murder of babies just because they are inside the mother rather than outside, which is insane.

I do eat beef, but I feel bad for any excess suffering that causes the cow or steer. I think it's possible to raise animals so that they have a reasonably good life and a mostly painless death. Not that we do that, but we should try to.

https://twitter.com/ClownWorld/status/1624825450387357696?ref_src=patrick.net

Soyjack is real.

Many years ago, I was working for government and, to make a long story short, was teamed up with a young attorney. Our work time together spanned a time of several months. One day, as we were having lunch, this young attorney asked me, with an overt smirk of confidense on his face, what my opinion was on the issue of abortion.

Instead of providing what he expected, i.e., a long winded explanation, I merely asked him this; 'if your mother had an abortion when she was pregnant with you, would we be having this discussion?' The self-confident smirk of my friend disappeared and a look of confusion crossed his face. He searched for an answer but couldn't provide one, illustrating that he realized that abortion does in fact end a human life.

Personalizing this issue removes it from the abstract. I've repeated this any number of times and it always leaves the pro-abortionists dumbfounded.

RayAmerica says

overt smirk of confidense on his face,

confidense? Was that an intentional word play?

If you really want to make somebody think twice about their position on abortion, and you oppose abortion - just say something along the lines "I strongly believe that liberals should always get abortions, but I don't think conservatives should - the problem will then be fixed in just one generation".

BTW, I'm anti-abortion, but I'm also pro-choice. That's not a conflict. Being against abortion doesn't mean that I oppose somebody's ability to make their own decision about what to do with an unwanted pregnancy and sometimes, pregnancies SHOULD be terminated.

But then again, I don't think I have any right to impose my particular beliefs about this subject on anybody.

HeadSet says

RayAmerica says

overt smirk of confidense on his face,

confidense? Was that an intentional word play?

I wish I could say that it was intentional, because that would make me look more clever than I am.

https://hotair.com/david-strom/2023/02/24/massachusetts-democrat-the-disabled-cost-too-much-to-let-them-be-born-n532974

A local Democrat official in Massachusetts is facing calls to step down after complaining about the cost of special education for children with disabilities who are not aborted.

Michael Hugo, the chair of the Framingham Democratic Committee, made the remarks during a city council meeting when discussing a proclamation about access to abortion and crisis pregnancy centers in the city. He said crisis pregnancy centers could misdiagnose a defect in a baby in the womb, leading to them being born and becoming a strain on a school budget. He issued a public apology after 10 days of backlash from members of his own party and parents of special needs children.

https://notthebee.com/article/are-we-the-baddies-pro-choicers-begin-turning-on-the-pro-aborts

“Are we the baddies?” Pro-choicers begin turning on the pro-aborts

You don't have to look too hard or search too long to find articles and commentaries that have started observing the civil war brewing within the acronym legion. A growing group of L's, G's, and even B's have had it with the T's, Q's, and all the rest.

Because of their antics, yes, but also because trans ideology undermines the entire identity of lesbians, gays, and bisexuals. You can't be gay or lesbian or bisexual if there is no fixed gender binary of male/female, after all.

But what you won't find in plentiful supply are articles and commentaries detailing what appears to be an exploitable fissure that has developed within the legal abortion community. ...

Katie McHugh, MD (she/her)
@KtMcH
Happy Friday! #Abortion care is still legal in Indiana. We’re doing everything we can to keep it that way.

#AbortionIsHealthcare - as well as a community priority, a family value, and a normal part of life!

Abortion is moral, common, and it isn’t going away.

Neither are we. ❤️





It reminds me of the viral GIF from the British sketch show The Mitchell and Webb Look, where two World War II-era German soldiers have an uncomfortable epiphany and ask, "Are we the baddies?"

For those who would deny the most fundamental human right to the most vulnerable and innocent humans, all for the sake of convenience… yes, you are. But it's never too late to defect.

https://www.thecollegefix.com/abortion-doula-slated-to-speak-at-notre-dame/

Notre Dame alumni leader criticizes pro-abortion event

The gender studies department at the University of Notre Dame, a Catholic University, plans to host an “abortion doula” on March 20.

The speaker is part of a series called “Reproductive Justice: Scholarship for Solidarity and Social Change.”

This specific event is titled “Trans Care + Abortion Care: Intersections and Questions,” and includes the abortion activist, Ash Williams, a self-proclaimed “Abortion Doula,” as a speaker. ...

The Catechism, which lists the teachings of the Catholic Church, explains how the abortion is viewed as a “moral evil.”

“Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion,” the Catechism states. “This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law.”

The leader of an alumni group that seeks to ensure Notre Dame maintains its Catholic identity criticized the event and series in emailed comments to The Fix.

I attended Notre Dame freshman and sophomore years. I wish it had remained fanatically Catholic, which it unapologetically was at the time. When my parents dropped me off and met the priest in charge of my dorm, Father Micelli, he told them: "I would rather see Notre Dame burn to the ground than lose its Catholic character." I was shocked at the time, but I agree with him now, and I'm not even much of a Catholic.

https://notthebee.com/article/vox-comes-out-against-aborting-embryos-that-can-feel-painbut-only-chicken-embryos-

https://notthebee.com/article/former-abortion-doctor-says-he-would-hear-squeaking-noises-from-born-alive-babies-and-his-first-instinct-was-to-suffocate-them-so-the-mom-wouldnt-suffer

Former abortion doctor says he would hear squeaking noises from born alive babies and his first instinct was to suffocate them so the mom wouldn't suffer

https://notthebee.com/article/teen-girl-in-nebraskas-first-criminal-abortion-case-sentenced-to-jail-time-and-its-a-travesty-of-justice

Nebraska sentences teen girl in first criminal abortion case. The Left is correct that it's a travesty of justice, but not for the reason they think.

Let's talk about this.

[Warning: This article involves discussion on a deeply disturbing crime]

Remember Celeste Burgess, the Nebraska teen whose mother acquired abortion pills for her so she could fit into a smaller pair of jeans, and then the pair burned the baby's body and threw the dead child in a field?
Well, the trial wrapped up, and Miss Burgess was sentenced to jail time.

However, she was NOT sentenced to jail time for murdering her child, a fact the Left missed.
Burgess received a sentence of 90 days with the possibility of early release after 50 days for removing/concealing/abandoning a dead human body; the abortion charges were dropped.

Personally, I think that a fertilized egg is not a person, but becomes a person pretty quickly as the brain starts to develop.

Patrick says

Personally, I think that a fertilized egg is not a person

What is it then?

HeadSet says

Patrick says

Personally, I think that a fertilized egg is not a person

What is it then?

Same as a skin flake.

When you think about it, you're nothing but a nest of cells, a colony, a swarm.

richwicks says

Same as a skin flake.

Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 considers those cells to be victims of homicide when the mother is killed too. Of course we have to have a provision that mentions that it's totally not the same thing for abortion because the mother chose to terminate.

https://notthebee.com/article/heres-5-straight-minutes-of-democrats-saying-they-agree-with-abortion-up-to-birth



Tons of Democrats do.

I support abortion until the first report card...If your kid is a dumb fuck, you can just kill him...lol

I don't have a religious bone in my body. If you test and are pregnant you woman up and have the damn child. If you want the abortion you get to go with it, as in you die too. You weren't responsible or willing to bring life to this planet. I don't want any of that shit here. Goodbye. You're both dead and don't get to spread your weak sauce throughout society. So yes, I'm for abortion if it gets rid of the scum bag women that couldn't keep their legs closed. Rant over.

Don't understand why Republicans and pro-life people have such a hard time messaging against the Democrat's VERY EXTREME abortion stance like we have in California, New York, Illinois and now Ohio where abortion is basically legal up to crowning for any circumstance.

Why can't pro-life people just say "Overturning Roe has just made America's abortion policies more like Europe's with some reasonable restrictions and less like Communist China and Stalinist North Korea".

socal2 says

Don't understand why Republicans and pro-life people have such a hard time messaging against the Democrat's VERY EXTREME abortion stance like we have in California, New York, Illinois and now Ohio where abortion is basically legal up to crowning for any circumstance.

Why can't pro-life people just say "Overturning Roe has just made America's abortion policies more like Europe's with some reasonable restrictions and less like Communist China and Stalinist North Korea".

Because unborn babies don’t vote and most people who are pro life won’t do what it takes to end it.

They just sentenced some abortion protesters to 11 years in jail for briefly blocking a clinic entrance. Any movement that lets that happen to their supporters is powerless. What should have happened after the first group was arrested is 5 more should have gone the next day to block the door. Then 5 more the next day. And so on…

Until your movement has a large number of supporters willing to actually sacrifice something, you will change nothing.

Also, to expand on what I said above. Logically life begins at conception and I believe that. But I’m not going to go to prison for 11 years for blocking a clinic entrance. And most pro life people are the same as me.

I think people sense the discrepancy between pro life people’s words and actions, and I think that weakens the message. If pro life people’s actions started to match their message, and a huge non-violent civil disobedience movement started, I think it would persuade the middle and end abortion.

socal2 says

Don't understand why Republicans and pro-life people have such a hard time messaging against the Democrat's VERY EXTREME abortion stance like we have in California, New York, Illinois and now Ohio where abortion is basically legal up to crowning for any circumstance.

Dems just had a "sweep" in Virginia powered mainly by campaigning for abortion on demand all the way to birth. The Dems won because woman voters and their soy men think that the Republican idea of 15 weeks with exceptions for rape, incest and life of the mother was an unacceptable attack on women's rights.

HeadSet says

socal2 says

Don't understand why Republicans and pro-life people have such a hard time messaging against the Democrat's VERY EXTREME abortion stance like we have in California, New York, Illinois and now Ohio where abortion is basically legal up to crowning for any circumstance.

Dems just had a "sweep" in Virginia powered mainly by campaigning for abortion on demand all the way to birth. The Dems won because woman voters and their soy men think that the Republican idea of 15 weeks with exceptions for rape, incest and life of the mother was an unacceptable attack on women's rights.

republicans suck at campaigning big time, even in Idaho.

Republicans should let go on abortion. Push for a simple reform such as making it legal for first trimester and that's it. It's a losing battle against 50% of the population. Let leftoid womyn abort. Take back the reign when it's time. Win by demographic.

mell says

Push for a simple reform such as making it legal for first trimester and that's it.

Virginia Republicans had it at 15 weeks, and the pro-abortion crowd clobbered them.

Leftards be like, let me kill my baby or we kill you next. That’s not really an exaggeration.

HeadSet says

mell says

Push for a simple reform such as making it legal for first trimester and that's it.

Virginia Republicans had it at 15 weeks, and the pro-abortion crowd clobbered them.

That's fine, there is enough support for it in many states as well as overall federally. Some states will always try carving out their own solutions. It had roughly 50/50 support in VA, not enough in the days of election harvesting. Other states will pass it and Republicans need to start improving their election game.

pudil says

Until your movement has a large number of supporters willing to actually sacrifice something, you will change nothing.

It's not about numbers on the pro life side. It's about leverage AND numbers. Abortion lovers turned it into a woman's rights issue. 50% plus of the population. Out of the gates the movement will win once you factor in the cucked men that have no problem killing a child. That's a monumental hurdle to overcome.

Pro life needs to air commercials with a family (multiple preferably) that were so close to having an abortion but decided to have the kid. I know of plenty. My own SIL had 3 abortions if I recall. She finally kept one. Has it been perfect. No. Is he basically my kid now. Yes. Our family, his friends, life wouldn't be the same without him. Pro life needs stories like that. Not pictures of dead babies outside an abortion clinic.

I don't have a religious bone in my body. But I know what is right. The focus should be on the positives of having a child. Not showing grotesque photos of aborted babies. The messaging needs to change. Women are emotional. You show them a positive outcome you could easily flip 20-30% of them from the abortion crowd. My SIL made her mess, but she still loves her son and regrets her abortions. Odd are there wouldn't have been one abortion if she just had the first one.

WookieMan says

Pro life needs to air commercials with a family (multiple preferably) that were so close to having an abortion but decided to have the kid. I know of plenty. My own SIL had 3 abortions if I recall. She finally kept one. Has it been perfect. No. Is he basically my kid now. Yes. Our family, his friends, life wouldn't be the same without him. Pro life needs stories like that. Not pictures of dead babies outside an abortion clinic.

I don't have a religious bone in my body. But I know what is right. The focus should be on the positives of having a child. Not showing grotesque photos of aborted babies. The messaging needs to change. Women are emotional. You show them a positive outcome you could easily flip 20-30% of them from the abortion crowd. My SIL made her mess, but she still loves her son and regrets her abortions. Odd are there wouldn't have been one abortion if she just had the first one.

My SIL was adopted - she now has 3 daughters, 2 of whom are college age. If she had been eaten by the D&C roto-router, there would have been one less family in the world.

I agree - there needs to be orders of magnitude more positive pro-life messaging. For most women especially, once they get old enough, they'll regret having sacrificed family for career or chasing the alpha Chads.

This is all part of the immoral social cancer the West has been embracing for some time now. It's part of a much larger problem.

WookieMan says

I don't have a religious bone in my body.

I bet many an altar boy wished he could say that.