patrick.net

Patrick says

this is the illogical thing about war. If I give Ukrainian soldier a gun, train him, and send him off to go kill Russian soldiers its not war, but if I use a gun myself then it's war. This doesn't make sense to me.

Because I know that if I give someone a gun to go kill someone, I'd be prosecuted as accessory to murder. That's the law.

World is a weird fucking place with lots of posturing and pretend.

https://www.academia.edu/8776021/The_Snipers_Massacre_on_the_Maidan_in_Ukraine

FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut says

this is the illogical thing about war. If I give Ukrainian soldier a gun, train him, and send him off to go kill Russian soldiers its not war, but if I use a gun myself then it's war. This doesn't make sense to me.

There's no rules. You realize, the last war the United States has been in was WWII. Nothing else was declared a war. It's just words. If you try to make sense of what habitual liars say, you'll go nuts. Our government constantly lies and redefines meaning. The are like a child that continually changes rules in the middle of a game.

richwicks says

Nothing else was declared a war.

Russia is also doing this with its "special military operation".

Why? What's the reason for not calling a war a war?

Patrick says

https://www.academia.edu/8776021/The_Snipers_Massacre_on_the_Maidan_in_Ukraine

This has been known for quite some time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEgJ0oo3OA8

That's the intercepted phone call. This was posted on Mar 5, 2014.

Patrick says

richwicks says

Nothing else was declared a war.

Russia is also doing this with its "special military operation".

Why? What's the reason for not calling a war a war?

Putin had no intention of occupying the Ukraine. The initial assault had about 190000 military personnel. It would take about 1 million personnel to occupy a country the size of Ukraine.

Russia just recently called up an extra 300000 personnel. This would be about the right number to fortify and control the 4 areas they recently annexed.

Putin has not called for WARTIME production and/or conscription. During WWII Russia had an army in excess of 11 million people. If he went to WAR, he would scare the bejeesus out of Europe and Europe would need to mobilize against this size of threat. Right now Russia has about 1 million military personnel.

The size and scale of a true WAR is something that hasn't been seen since 1945.

This liberator needed a new pair of glasses.... Not anymore.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580293815357042688

A Russian MT-LB drives into a line of TM-62 anti-vehicle landmines.

Patrick says

No we didn't. The US alone was bombing Syria, Afghanistan, Syria and Yemen during that time, it was also supplying Ukraine with weaponry.

It was relatively peaceful, compared to this administration.

I just saw this watching the morning local news. Look at his arm.

Russia is beginning to evacuate Kherson?

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1580582953104859136

What were the lies about Venezuela, Guatemala, Honduras, Cuba and Nicaragua? Were there not Marxist insurgencies (funded by the USSR) fucking those countries up and spreading instability in the Western Hemisphere through the 70's, 80' and 90's?

What are the lies about Iran? Are they not run by Islamist anti-Semitic theocrat nutters who have set that country back half a century?

Finally, what are the lies about North Korea?

Geesh - it is a clown show that we have Americans defending Marxists, Islamist and whatever the fuck mutant shit that is going on in North Korea all in an effort to defend Russia's murderous cock-up in Ukraine.

socal2 says

What were the lies about Venezuela, Guatemala, Honduras, Cuba and Nicaragua?

* Venezuela: Nicolás Maduro was elected, Juan Guaidó is just a CIA cutout. He's not the president of Venezuela.
* Guatemala: didn't have a revolution, in 1953, and Jacobo Arbenz was overthrown so that United Fruit Company (what you know as Chiquita) could continue to exploit the entire country. This destroyed Gautemala's democracy. This was Operation PBSuccess
* Honduras: I don't know, but if the US government was involved with it, it's a good bet they were lying about it
* Cuba: The people of Cuba wanted Western interests out of the country because the government was so corrupt and bad. They had a genuine communist revolution.
* Nicaragua: The Contras were not on the side of the people. Don't you remember the Iran-Contra scandal? The US we selling weapons to Iran to pay for the conflict.

socal2 says

Were there not Marxist insurgencies (funded by the USSR) fucking those countries up and spreading instability in the Western Hemisphere through the 70's, 80' and 90's?

Not with the case of Iran, or Guatemala. In the 1950's the US would just lie about somebody being communist if they were a little be left of straight out fascist. It's like how the US now labels anybody a terrorist they don't like, or state sponsor of terrorism.

socal2 says

What are the lies about Iran? Are they not run by Islamist anti-Semitic theocrat nutters who have set that country back half a century?

They were overthrown by the United States in Operation Ajax to prevent Mohammad Mosaddegh from nationalizing oil interests when England (they developed the wells) was doing the same thing in Britain (hence we have British Petroleum). The US called this an operation to prevent communism, but it wasn't. Also Iran isn't developing a nuclear weapon.

socal2 says

Geesh - it is a clown show that we have Americans defending Marxists, Islamist and whatever the fuck mutant shit that is going on in North Korea all in an effort to defend Russia's murderous cock-up in Ukraine.

The clown show is that the US is even involved with any of this shit, and continues to lie about it. Central economies collapse. The real clown show is that the US acts like the fucking communists did 50 years ago and calls it freedumb.

richwicks says

The real clown show is that the US acts like the fucking communists did 50 years ago and calls it freedumb.

Like I said, people are aping Marxist/Islamist propaganda world-view to justify Russia's invasion of Ukraine in 2022.

How about North Korea? Surely you have a way to blame America for North Korea's horrific regime and abuses.

socal2 says

richwicks says

The real clown show is that the US acts like the fucking communists did 50 years ago and calls it freedumb.

Like I said, people are aping Marxist/Islamist propaganda world-view to justify Russia's invasion of Ukraine in 2022.

The US has invaded Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq.

You tell me why

The weapons of mass destruction program in Iraq was KNOWN not to exist in 2003, but it continued to 2013 and is still ongoing with mercenaries. What's the mission?

Bashi al-Assad is NOT gassing his own people, we know this because two whistleblowers from the OPCW came forward and explained, in detail, how they knew with certainty the Douma chemical attacks were faked. So, why is the US still attacking Syria?

Qaddafi was NOT about to cause a humanitarian crisis in Iraq, but it's in one now that Qaddafi is dead with slavery markets and civil war.

I'm tired of the stupidity. You bitch and whine and moan about Ukraine, and you don't say SHIT about the US doing the same fucking thing.

The US set the precedent and you didn't say a FUCKING THING against it - so here we are FUCKING HYPOCRITE.

You could have spoken out against FORMING precedent, but you didn't did you?

Is Russia acting awfully? SURE THE FUCK IS, just like the US is, when you said NOTHING about it. Only 2 decades for you to figure it out. Only 20 years allowed for you piece it together. What sort of GENIUS would you have to be to figure it out in only 2 FUCKING decades? I guess you'd have to be some sort of fucking Einstein Squared to figure it out..

Don't give me this fucking shit that you care about what Russia is doing to Ukraine, because you don't. You're just being a pussy and sucking government propaganda cock.

socal2 says

How about North Korea? Surely you have a way to blame America for North Korea's horrific regime and abuses.

Yes, normalize relations and start engaging in trade, and the regime will fall.

It's as fucking simple as that.

China no longer has people going to work on bicycles now. Don't outsource labor to these nations though, either. That's how our government betrayed US workers. The US federal government didn't have to do this, but they did. The US decided to import goods from SLAVE LABOR in China. Slap a 100% tariff on China, see how long that lasts?

I don't know what it takes before you realize "hey, maybe my government is betraying the nation for their own selfish short term interests, and are selling me and my children and grandchildren into slavery?" That's what they are doing. But your TV cost $300, you know, that device you have for 10 years. $30 versus $60, well, one you can afford apparently. That's the difference between $5 a month and $2.50...

socal2 says

How about North Korea? Surely you have a way to blame America for North Korea's horrific regime and abuses.

Rumor in the Woo is that NK is a conspiratorial frenemy of US manipulators. They said the rockets fired over Japan were provided by Pentagon to NK to scare Japanese into buying a bunch of our military shit.

In our world of insane deviousness and deception, it almost makes sense.

A war is what we did in Iraq, Libya, and other places. Full destruction of the infrastructure (power plants, bridges, etc) is one of the early steps. Russia harmed Ukraine's power grid slightly. There is still a long way to go before it is completely destroyed.

Ceffer says

As this is posted, Russia is shelling the infrastructure of numerous Ukrainian cities, including Kiev. Gloves are off. Too many to mention, just bombing the shit out of them.
https://t.me/battleinsights/5993

Ceffer says

@Ceffer - why do we see this:



Is this because we're looking at a picture of Lebanon or Gaza or Syria, or Lebanon? I've seen Ukraine use Lebanon several times as (fake) examples of the bombing of Eastern Ukraine.

When information is hidden, it's because a lie is being told. Every fucking time.

@socal2

Can you say in a few sentences why you hate Putin so much?

Ukraine is far away, and I assume you're not Ukrainian yourself.

Maybe "Because Putin invaded Ukraine and lots of people died."

But to be consistent, do you hate, say, Bush just as much for invading Iraq? Far more people died, and the excuse for invasion was far less plausible.

Patrick says

Can you say in a few sentences why you hate Putin so much?

Putin has managed to stay in power for nearly a quarter century by murdering or jailing his political enemies and journalists in Russia and around the world. I don't like ANY leader who murders and jails his opponents to stay in power for so long. I don't like the Mullahs in Iran, I don't like Xi in China nor Kim in North Korea who are all in power for life using the same tactics as Putin.

Putin was a major enforcer of the old Communist regime serving in the KGB and has never repented for being an enabler of the most destructive human force (Communism) on the planet in modern times.

Putin likely orchestrated false flag attacks killing hundreds in Russia to justify his war in Chechnya that killed thousands more.

Putin is thoroughly corrupt somehow becoming a billionaire on a salary of $150K.

Putin is openly allied with some of the most odious and anti-American regimes on the planet (Iran, North Korea, Syria).

Lastly - Putin has thrown the world into turmoil and has gotten tens of thousands of people needlessly killed by his total cockup of a war.

My question to you - is why do You hate Zelensky and Ukraine so much? At worst, Ukraine is just a run of the mill corrupt Eastern European country that is trying to defend itself from an open invasion from a murderous regime next door. Ukraine is CLEARLY the lesser of two evils and the victim in this fight and has the whole world (outside of Iran, Syria and North Korea) on its side. I can totally understand and respect the argument that the US doesn't have the resources to help or that we don't want to push Putin overboard to using nukes.

But what I don't get is why so many Americans post all of the ridiculous bullshit Russian-propaganda mocking Zelensky somehow claiming he is a secret Nazi, who is also Jewish, who is also a Satanist and a woke gay Liberal?

Do You really think Putin and Russia are the good guys here? What is it about they way Putin and Russia operates at home and abroad makes you want them to prevail in Ukraine and have more power over world affairs? Do You really believe Putin is the vessel to somehow defeat Globalism and combat the scourge of trannies in our schools?

socal2 says

Patrick says

Can you say in a few sentences why you hate Putin so much?

Putin has managed to stay in power for nearly a quarter century by murdering or jailing his political enemies and journalists in Russia and around the world. I don't like ANY leader who murders and jails his opponents to stay in power for so long. I don't like the Mullahs in Iran, I don't like Xi in China nor Kim in North Korea who are all in power for life using the same tactics as Putin.

Putin was a major enforcer of the old Communist regime serving in the KGB and has never repented for being an enabler of the most destructive human force (Communism) on the planet in modern times.

Putin likely orchestrated false flag attacks killing hundreds in Russia to justify his war in Chechnya that killed thousands more.

Putin is thoroughly corrupt somehow becoming a billionaire on a salary...

Seriously? zelensky is not a iota better than putin, where have you been. He has ben jailing and murdering polical opponents, he has the gall to call on the US and Europe to get involved in a nuclear war for his corrupt stooge regime, and the gall to demand tens of billions dollars weekly in US taxpayer money and to categorically refuse peace talks unless putin is removed, treating his own people and the European people like worthless pawns. This conflict isn't new and didn't come out of left field and he had all the tools to prevent it. Only difference is the size of the two countries. Fuck this asshole. Fuck em both

On a personal note I knew a guy many years ago who lived in the Ukraine but was supporting and working for the crimea and donbass independence movement by his own account. We had regular medical research sessions over Skype. He told me that if the Ukraine govt finds out that he is a "separatist" (peaceful) they will jail and potentially kill him, and he lived in constant fear of the Ukraine gestapo so that he kept moving physical locations frequently. He eventually disappeared and I never heard from him again. Don't think for a second that the government in the Ukraine is any different with its methods from the Russian govt. And what about the Americans and Europeans? One day they decided to support the Albanian and Croatian separatist movements, bombed the shit out of the Serbs and "redistricted" Yugoslavia against all conventions. Leaders who don't support diplomacy and peace negotiations for an armed conflict in their country to prevent killing and maiming and quash their own political opponents don't deserve any military aid whatsoever.

socal2 says

Putin was a major enforcer of the old Communist regime serving in the KGB and has never repented for being an enabler of the most destructive human force (Communism) on the planet in modern times.

Agre with all of this - doesn't change the fact that the Ukrainian "government" has been using the same tactics.

Patrick says

BBC Reports that weapon manufacturer executives were heard simultaneously orgasming while announcing quarterly earnings via zoom.

They hated Trump for not providing any wars for them to sell weapons for.

"Times when jokes write themselves"?

Russia breaking into someone else's tent and stealing their shit?

Putin declares martial law in annexed regions of Ukraine
MOSCOW (AP) — Russian President Vladimir Putin has declared martial law in the four regions of Ukraine that Moscow illegally annexed and given additional emergency powers to the heads of Russian regions.

Putin didn’t immediately spell out on Wednesday the steps that would be taken under martial law, but legislation indicates it may involve restrictions on travel and public gatherings, tighter censorship and broader authority for law enforcement agencies.

Putin also didn’t provide details of the extra powers to be given to the heads of Russian regions under his decree.
https://apnews.com/article/russia-declares-martial-law-in-annexed-ukraine-regions-b48b555f547ff6a1a59b1cad17d0e269?taid=634fe95b71fe170001420757

https://www.newsweek.com/neocons-woke-left-are-joining-hands-leading-us-woke-war-iii-opinion-1748947

The Neocons and the Woke Left Are Joining Hands and Leading Us to Woke War III

The online mob has decided that any support for a negotiated settlement—even proposals that Zelensky himself appeared to support at the beginning of the war—is tantamount to taking Russia's side, denouncing voices of compromise and restraint as Putin apologists. This removes them from acceptable discourse and shrinks the Overton window to those advocating the total defeat of Russia and an end to Putin's regime—even if it risks WWIII.

We've seen this before: "Woke mobs" on Twitter routinely demonize and defame their political opponents, impugn the motives of anyone who questions their goals or tactics, and squelch dissent even in their own ranks by declaring the debate on certain topics over.

What makes the "I stand with Ukraine" version of the Twitter mob unique is that it brings together two forces that used to be sworn enemies of one another—the woke Left and the neoconservative Right. It turns out they share many of the same loathsome ideological and personality traits, and have a similar "slash and burn" approach to political engagement. It's a new political marriage.