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Thread For Exposing Blatant Propaganda


               
2022 Mar 11, 9:40am   29,532 views  308 comments

by Patrick   follow (59)  

https://spectatorworld.com/topic/two-wars-ukraine-propaganda-social-media/?source=patrick.net


Ukraine and the war for your mind
The conflict on the ground isn’t the only one — there’s plenty of propaganda afoot too

March 11, 2022

Deterrence works. Russia’s nukes are the only thing keeping the US from full-out war in Ukraine just six months after retreating from Afghanistan. The unprecedented propaganda effort by Ukraine and its helpers in the American mass media to drag the US and NATO directly into the fight has failed — so far. But the struggle — the one for your mind space — is not over.

To understand what follows, you have to wipe away a lot of bull being slung your way. Insanity is not the only explanation for Putin’s actions of the past few weeks. From a Russian standpoint, he is carrying out a rational political-military strategy in Ukraine, seizing Russian-speaking territory such as Donbas, demilitarizing eastern Ukraine by force, and most of all creating a physical buffer zone between his country’s southern border and NATO. That zone may end at the Dnieper River with a loop around Odessa, or it may end at the Polish border, depending on how smoothly things go on the ground and on what level of “back away” message Putin wishes to send NATO.

It’s unlikely that Putin is making the first moves toward some greater conquest. All the bad takes saying “if we don’t stop Putin now, he’ll invade Moldova/Estonia/Poland/all Europe just like Hitler” ignores that the German military in World War Two had some 18 million men under arms. The Russian army today has 1.3 million, the best of which are going to be in Ukraine for a while.

Every war has its “is the juice worth the squeeze” question. Is what you can realistically hope to achieve worth the cost of getting it? For Putin, that means solving his border problem at the cost of maybe a few thousand men and another dollop of weak sanctions. He understood the needs of Europe meant sanctions would never harm sales of the fossil fuels which make up most Russian exports. But nyet to Paypal for you tovarishch! Putin could also look to history and see how decades of sanctions have not changed much in Cuba, Venezuela, Iraq, Iran and North Korea.

Putin most importantly also knew NATO would not fight him on the ground for fear of starting a nuclear war. That is exactly what nukes are for — and is the history of the Cold War in a sentence. Having nukes allows a country to do certain things any way it wants because its actions stay below the threshold of risking atomic war. This is why the US could destroy Gaddafi and Saddam (no nukes) and why the US will never attack North Korea (nukes). Under US pressure, Ukraine in 1994 relinquished the nukes it inherited from the former Soviet Union, enabling the invasion here in 2022.

Being a nuclear superpower makes things easier; the US can fight all over Central America and the Middle East, and Russia in the ’Stans, Crimea and now Ukraine, and none of that is important enough for the other side to consider using nukes to stop it. It is not like America does not know how to step away from a fight which isn’t ours: Crimea, Chechnya, Rwanda, Hungary ’56, Czechoslovakia ’68, initially Afghanistan ’79, even to a certain extent in Syria 2016. Putin knows that. Biden knows that. NATO knows that. Ukraine, however, still thinks it can change the game.

Ukraine knew on Day One it didn’t have enough men or weapons to defeat the Russians. Its only hope to remain a unified nation (it is easy to imagine a divided Ukraine, Western Zone and Russian Eastern Zone) is outside help. A no-fly zone, some airstrikes to blunt Russian advances. Maybe some of those Polish/NATO pilots planning to ferry F-16s to Ukraine stay to fly them in combat? Something, anything.

That’s why America is being blitzed with Ukrainian propaganda, and your brother-in-law is ready to head to Europe with his never-cleaned hunting rifle. The goal is to change public opinion such that a weak guy like Joe Biden starts to doubt himself. The goal is get Biden to take that Pentagon meeting laying out options for some limited bombing, or to listen to those analysts saying the US could set up a small no-fly zone on Ukraine’s western edge to facilitate humanitarian aid. Drop in some Special Forces. Something, anything.

The purpose of the propaganda is to get Biden to sign off on something hopefully small enough that it falls below the threshold of provoking a nuclear response. A risky and delicate tasking. The bad news is Ukrainian propaganda is working. A non-partisan 74 percent of Americans say NATO should impose a no-fly zone in Ukraine. And that’s even as we are just getting started.

A quick propaganda recap. We’ve had the hero phase with the non-existent Ghost of Kyiv and the supermodels with guns. We’ve had the Russians-are-going-to-kill-us-all phase, with the faux threat of invasion to the West and the faux scare the Russians were going to create a Chernobyl-like nuclear accident by shelling a power plant. We are currently moving through the “not verifiable atrocities” phase. Alongside this is beefcake talk about Zelensky, the likes of which we haven’t seen since before the cancellations of Andrew Cuomo and Michael Avenatti. The fact-checking mania of the Covid era is in the dustbin of history as American media removes all the filters on pro-Ukrainian content.


The quality of the propaganda is not important (any scrap metal on snowy ground is breaking news of another Russian helo down, even if the metal has “Acme Junk Pile” written on it). The quantity is important, the attempt to overwhelm American mind space to the point where logic is shoved into the back corner. There is a growing cottage industry of “experts” explaining how to can go to war without going to THAT kind of war. Dissenting voices are few, and are often labeled as “Putin lovers,” with late night hosts hurling homophobic slurs at them like high school kids.

It all sounds silly when the effect of propaganda is to convince Americans higher gas prices are the cost of freedom, or booking an Airbnb they’ll never stay at will save Ukraine, or refusing Russian dressing on a salad. But it is deadly serious. There are two battles now playing out over Ukraine. The one on the ground — and the one on your social media seeking to drag America into the mud.

Only half a year after the sad ending in Afghanistan, it is stunning to watch America again contemplate going to war for some abstract purpose far removed from our own core interests. And this time it is the risk of a nuclear exchange to remind us of our mistake, not just an inglorious departure from Kabul.


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1   TheAntiPanicanLearingCenter   2022 Mar 11, 9:49am  

Great piece, thanks Patrick

Patrick says
Only half a year after the sad ending in Afghanistan, it is stunning to watch America again contemplate going to war for some abstract purpose far removed from our own core interests. And this time it is the risk of a nuclear exchange to remind us of our mistake, not just an inglorious departure from Kabul.


The homeland is torn apart by CRT, BLM, Runaway Spending, and WEF manipulation, and coming just months after an pathetic withdrawal from 20 year Afghanistan which resulted in the Status Quo Antebellum with the Taliban running the show...

We're told we can get involved in Ukraine.

Absolute hubris and danger.
2   Patrick   2022 Mar 11, 10:06am  

Thank God there is no function for that.
3   Patrick   2022 Mar 11, 10:06am  

Propaganda can also be by deliberate omission of significant facts.

For weeks, day after day stories in the MSM about Ukrainians fleeing the Russians. Can you remember ever hearing anything about ethnic Russians fleeing from the Ukrainians in 2014 and 2015? There were over 2 million of them.


https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2015/7/24/ukraine-worlds-unseen-refugee-crisis?source=patrick.net
5   komputodo   2022 Mar 11, 11:01am  

How many new covid cases this week? The ukraine narrative is working. Fauci should be locked up!. Hey what happened to Fauci? Who cares? WW3 is going to start.
6   Patrick   2022 Mar 11, 11:09am  

Lol, exactly.

I wonder if the news in highly-vaxxed Singapore or New Zealand is talking about the utter failure of the vaxx:






We already had our spectacular mass failure of the vaxx, but the long-term increase in death and illness from the vaxx is still in progress and still censored by the corporate media.
7   richwicks   2022 Mar 11, 11:16am  

Patrick says
Propaganda can also be by deliberate omission of significant facts.


Russia has twice in the last century been invaded through Ukraine. Anybody in our "news" bother to remind us of that?

Russia has been asking for 15 years that Ukraine remain neutral and not to allow NATO within their borders.

Ukraine's current government was created by a US coup d'etat.

All the deaths will be pointless, since Ukraine will not be allowed into NATO anyhow, because Europe isn't willing to go to war over Ukraine. This war is entirely pointless and is only happening so that it can be used as propaganda to demonize Russia.
8   socal2   2022 Mar 11, 11:30am  

richwicks says
Russia has twice in the last century been invaded through Ukraine. Anybody in our "news" bother to remind us of that?


Russia held Ukraine and a huge chunk of Eastern Europe behind a fucking concrete wall for nearly half a century stunting generations of people to the failures of Totalitarian Marxism while sending millions to the Gulag. (Not to mention the millions killed in the Ukraine by Stalin during the 1930's Red Famine)

They also spread their Marxist poison to all corners of the world (Asia, Africa, Middle East, South/Central America) fucking up more human life for generations.

Assuming you are older than 20 - do you have no memory of this?

Or is all that history just fake news like all of the Marxist professors in US Academia claim?
9   mell   2022 Mar 11, 11:39am  

socal2 says
richwicks says
Russia has twice in the last century been invaded through Ukraine. Anybody in our "news" bother to remind us of that?


Russia held Ukraine and a huge chunk of Eastern Europe behind a fucking concrete wall for nearly half a century stunting generations of people to the failures of Totalitarian Marxism while sending millions to the Gulag. (Not to mention the millions killed in the Ukraine by Stalin during the 1930's Red Famine)

They also spread their Marxist poison to all corners of the world (Asia, Africa, Middle East, South/Central America) fucking up more human life for generations.

Assuming you are older than 20 - do you have no memory of this?

Or is all that history just fake news like all of the Marxist professors in US Academia claim?


That may be true but Russia is by no means Marxist today and hasn't been in a long time. Also it's not an excuse to remove leaders if they run shitty ideologies or you would have to remove many current leaders and cause many wars. Like invading Canada and removing trudeau,nk, much of the middle east, etc. Politics and diplomacy means having to deal with shit in a responsible and strategical manner.
10   Ceffer   2022 Mar 11, 11:52am  

So. Obama and Biden simply became gleeful, willing agents to aid and abet the Swiss Octagon and the CIA to genocide the Slavs with bioterror weapons. What's wrong with that? As long as they got they's chilluns in tunnels 'n drugs 'n adrenochrome factories 'n arms profits 'n money laundering to shore up their bankrupt DC, they's be happy campers. Such elite world strategists, always working for the welfare of humanity.

We all know that constructive Hegelian Genocide is the key to the surviving Human Race marching to future glories!
11   socal2   2022 Mar 11, 11:55am  

mell says
Politics and diplomacy means having to deal with shit in a responsible and strategical manner.


Agreed - but Putin invading Ukraine and getting tens of thousands of people killed and threatening nukes and WWIII is not a "responsible or strategic" move to counter the so-called "threat" of Ukraine having closer economic ties to the EU and the US.

There is no historical, moral or even strategic justification for this level of violence and mayhem perpetrated by Putin.

As you say, Russia is no longer a full-bore Communist regime like the nutters in North Korea keeping people locked behind prison walls. Russia has slowly opened up to society freeing their former Commie slave colonies in Eastern Europe and letting the Russian people to travel freely to the West and integrate into the wider economy.

So WTF is Putin doing now other than killing thousands of people and showing the world his military is 3rd rate?
12   Patrick   2022 Mar 11, 12:43pm  

socal2 says
They also spread their Marxist poison to all corners of the world (Asia, Africa, Middle East, South/Central America) fucking up more human life for generations.


The US lost all credibility after the fraudulent WMD claims and resulting invasion of Iraq in which something like half a million Iraqis died - and this after some nutty Saudis attacked America on 9/11 with clear support from their government. Saudi Arabia got away with that crime scot free.

The US has also fucked up human lives for generations.

The Russian government is bad, but the US government no longer has any claim to the moral high ground.
14   richwicks   2022 Mar 11, 1:31pm  

socal2 says
richwicks says
Russia has twice in the last century been invaded through Ukraine. Anybody in our "news" bother to remind us of that?


Russia held Ukraine and a huge chunk of Eastern Europe behind a fucking concrete wall for nearly half a century stunting generations of people to the failures of Totalitarian Marxism while sending millions to the Gulag. (Not to mention the millions killed in the Ukraine by Stalin during the 1930's Red Famine)

They also spread their Marxist poison to all corners of the world (Asia, Africa, Middle East, South/Central America) fucking up more human life for generations.

Assuming you are older than 20 - do you have no memory of this?


I'm 50 but who created the Bolshevik revolution? I might be able to pass for 20, if I had been addicted to crack and crystal meth starting at 5 years old.

https://rielpolitik.com/2020/01/26/hidden-history-who-financed-bolshevik-revolution/?source=patrick.net

They're trying to do it to us you realize. I keep telling you, our enemies are domestic, not foreign. Think I'm joking?
15   richwicks   2022 Mar 11, 1:34pm  

socal2 says
mell says
Politics and diplomacy means having to deal with shit in a responsible and strategical manner.


Agreed - but Putin invading Ukraine and getting tens of thousands of people killed and threatening nukes and WWIII is not a "responsible or strategic" move to counter the so-called "threat" of Ukraine having closer economic ties to the EU and the US.


The war ends as soon as Ukraine agrees not to join NATO, quits bombing Donbass, and gives up Crimea.

You KNOW this is going to be the outcome anyhow, they know it. The people being killed are being killed for PROPAGDANDA purposes. That's it. The more people that die in this (well Ukrainians anyhow) the better the propaganda for the United States.

Let's just be ruthlessly honest about this.

socal2 says
There is no historical, moral or even strategic justification for this level of violence and mayhem perpetrated by Putin.


Cuban Missile crisis and that happened because the US was placing nuclear arms in Turkey. We've already gone through this bullshit before.

Why the fuck is NATO constantly expanding? It's just stupid. You're happy to pay for it, bankrupt yourself and your children and your country to do it though.
16   socal2   2022 Mar 11, 1:52pm  

Patrick says
The US has also fucked up human lives for generations.

The Russian government is bad, but the US government no longer has any claim to the moral high ground.


FFS - Patrick.

The US is not perfect, but compared to the mountains of dead people the Totalitarians and Communists in Russia and China have piled up since WWII - it is not even close. Not the same sport, league or planet. We are talking 10,000 to 1 in body counts and death and destruction. The US didn't lock our people behind walls for 50+ years and send millions to Gulags.

Even Iraq and Afghanistan - the vast majority of the deaths were Muslims killing Muslims settling religious, sectarian and tribal scores. The US toppled the regimes in a few days using a scalpel. We just failed and keeping the Muslims from killing each other. It wasn't the US that was blowing up schools, mosques, government building and hospitals like we saw over and over again in Iraq and Afghanistan resulting in hundreds of deaths at a time.

The US didn't shell and lay siege to massive cities like the Russians are doing now in Ukraine either.

I get and agree with most of the posters here about alot of the bullshit with our deep-state and corrupt media. I totally understand the skepticism many have and don't want the US drawn into Ukraine.

But it seems like alot of sensible people on this forum have gotten radicalized and are now aping the same old anti-American Marxist prop - pretending that the US is equal or just as bad as what the USSR and Russia has done to the planet is fucking nonsense.
17   socal2   2022 Mar 11, 1:58pm  

richwicks says
Cuban Missile crisis and that happened because the US was placing nuclear arms in Turkey. We've already gone through this bullshit before.


Right - 50 fucking years ago at the height of the Cold War!

It is 2022 and the Russians are no longer Commies - right?

WTF is Putin paranoid about in 2022? He gives 2 shits about human life as he is sending thousands of Russians into the Ukrainian wood chipper and cowardly using artillery on civilian centers because the Russian military is too weak to secure the cities - despite being right next door. So spare me the shit Russian claims about "Nazis" killing thousands in Donbass and Crimea justifying Putin's invasion of Ukraine.
18   Shaman   2022 Mar 11, 3:44pm  

Thank God for Russian nukes!
Otherwise Biden would be launching us into another pointless war just to defend his financial interests in Ukraine and his BioLabs where they were whipping up the next four or five pandemics.
19   Onvacation   2022 Mar 11, 3:51pm  

Patrick says
We already had our spectacular mass failure of the vaxx, but the long-term increase in death and illness from the vaxx is still in progress and still censored by the corporate media.

I looked at the CDC numbers today and the deaths from the Wuhan for January EXCEED the deaths during the first peak in March 2020.

I wonder if these new Wuhan deaths are actually caused by the vax? Anecdotally, I know of three people that went to the hospital with the disease. All three were "fully vaxxed". Two died.
21   richwicks   2022 Mar 11, 4:04pm  

socal2 says
It is 2022 and the Russians are no longer Commies - right?


Nope, but we are...

We are communists. How blind are you?

socal2 says
WTF is Putin paranoid about in 2022?


I dunno, the 7 wars that the US has lied to start in the last 20 years? You're like "oh, PUTIN is being unreasonable".

What the fuck have any of these wars had to do with this nation? The US is lying about Assad using chemical weapons, they are there to steal oil through Genie Energy, and they are trying to remove Russia's only Middle Eastern military in Tartus.

Golly, what could Putin be paranoid about? Gee whiz. That's hard.

socal2 says
He gives 2 shits about human life as he is sending thousands of Russians into the Ukrainian wood chipper and cowardly using artillery on civilian centers because the Russian military is too weak to secure the cities


The US does this all the time. Ever see pictures of Syria, or Libya? I used to try to talk to Iraqis back in the naughts, they HATED Americans. Conversation ended when it was known I was an American. That's what our wars do, creates hatred, and devastates a country.

Why was the US blowing up Iraq? That war killed between 100,000 and 1,000,000 people - why? Wasn't over a fake weapons of mass destruction program. We know that.

socal2 says
So spare me the shit Russian claims about "Nazis" killing thousands in Donbass and Crimea justifying Putin's invasion of Ukraine.


Look, we have a president whose crackhead son is on the fucking BOD of Burisma for some reason. Why the fuck is Hunter Biden on the BOD of Burisma? He doesn't even speak the language. Apparently there's over a dozen biochemical WEAPONS labs in Ukraine now, what the fuck are they doing there?

Don't tell me you care about human life or what is going on in Ukraine has ANYTHING to do with human life. The US took it over in 2014, and has been building military weapons labs there, and importing armaments, on the border of Russia. Would this shit be happening if there wasn't a coup?

No.

So whose goddamned fault is this?

It's these assholes:



Chummy chummy fuck fucks.

Or more properly, their handlers. Who are they? Those are actors. I think Trump may have gone off script and done some improv, MAYBE. Hard to know.

You know how you're wrong about something - when you find yourself on the same side as CNN, Fox, ABC, CBS, NY Times, PBS, NPR, the intelligence agencies, the establishment of both parties, Hollywood celebrities, and the fucking deep state.

You are CLEARLY in the wrong. When have those mother fuckers been right, and about what, in the last 2 decades? Find that weapons of mass destruction yet? You're making an error. I have never seen these fucks be right in twenty years, maybe they are right THIS time, but I doubt it. That's not their MO - they're just fucking evil.

Look, I'm certain you're a decent person, have a good set of morals and beliefs, but remember propaganda is produced to deceive you - not educate you. Where is the propaganda pushing us? Anybody can be tricked.

I agree, this war is awful, all wars are, but the end of it is easy to gain - just keep Ukraine out of NATO make certain Russia retains their military base in Crimea, get rid of those US biological labs now. This is reasonable. Why won't Zelenskyy agree to it? He wants people to die, it's good propaganda. That's it. The US wants people to die, it's good propaganda. Zelenskyy is an obvious a puppet, it's not like the US overthrew the country and then said "oh well, let it go democratic and do what they want to do".
22   richwicks   2022 Mar 11, 4:29pm  

socal2 says
The US is not perfect, but compared to the mountains of dead people the Totalitarians and Communists in Russia and China have piled up since WWII - it is not even close. Not the same sport, league or planet. We are talking 10,000 to 1 in body counts and death and destruction. The US didn't lock our people behind walls for 50+ years and send millions to Gulags.


Ah, you mean back when they were being run by communists, and they had state enforced atheism? That nation is GONE.

Back then "the left" wanted "peace at any cost" but today, they want to make war with Russia. Why are the communist that run our nation now wanting to make war with a nation that is no longer communist?

socal2 says
Even Iraq and Afghanistan - the vast majority of the deaths were Muslims killing Muslims settling religious, sectarian and tribal scores. The US toppled the regimes in a few days using a scalpel.


Oh yeah, Operation Surgical Strike and Precision Operation - I thought they were called Operation Desert Storm and Shock and Awe. Must be that Mandela Effect..

The US doesn't do surgical strikes. It purposely destroys infrastructure, and puts the entire population into a completely desperate situation to make them capitulate. Julian Assage gave up his life for nothing.

socal2 says
The US didn't shell and lay siege to massive cities like the Russians are doing now in Ukraine either.


Look at Aleppo. Seriously. Go look at Tripoli.

Do you have any comprehension of what fucking sociopathic assholes control this nation?

Bill Clinton bombed a fucking pharmaceutical plant in Sudan JUST to distract from the testimony that Monica Lewinsky gave about giving him a blow job.

Al-Shifa was blown up on August 20, 1998.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Shifa_pharmaceutical_factory

And that's the same exact date that Monica brought in her dress:

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/specials/starr/testimony/lewinsky_2.html

It's estimated that something like 10 to 50 thousand people died as a result of that destruction because of a shortage of medication in one the poorest countries in the world.

None of our "leaders" give a fuck about human life. No leaders can afford to do it really. Russia has security concerns, and if that fucking puppet that the US has on their strings would just said "fine I won't join NATO!" all this shit and death goes away. Simple solution, but Zelenskyy won't do this, because he's been instructed not to.

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