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housing prices peak 2


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2022 Apr 29, 9:29pm   598,723 views  5,566 comments

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https://finance.yahoo.com/news/pimco-kiesel-called-housing-top-160339396.html?source=patrick.net

Bond manager Mark Kiesel sold his California home in 2006, when he presciently predicted the housing bubble would pop. He bought again in 2012, after U.S. prices fell more than 30% and found a floor.

Now, after a record surge in prices, Kiesel says the time to sell is once again at hand.

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1220   Ceffer   2022 Oct 30, 6:48pm  

House around the corner listed a couple of months ago, initially dropped price by 180k, seemed it sold at a still pretty high price. Sale musta fallen through, back on market yesterday with another 85K price trim.
1222   zzyzzx   2022 Oct 31, 8:17am  

https://www.reddit.com/r/RealEstate/comments/yhe664/builder_has_homes_listed_40k_less_than_our/

Builder has homes listed $40k less than our contracted sales price.
1223   Al_Sharpton_for_President   2022 Oct 31, 8:22am  

Yep. Builders slashing prices on accumulating unsold inventory is going to establish new, lower comps.
1224   stfu   2022 Oct 31, 11:29am  

zzyzzx says

Builder has homes listed $40k less than our contracted sales price.


No doubt this is happening as builders cancel builds that are less than a month away from being move in ready and drop prices on everything that can be sold. They are preparing for an economic winter. The good news is that new inventory is only a fraction (maybe 10%) of existing home sales and of that percentage only a small part (less than 1/3) are at a point in the pipeline that they could be finished. So the overall effect of new home inventory on the total real estate market is minimal.

@ad is the only one here posting relevant facts and I agree with his musings. There hasn't been, and will not be, a national "housing crash" until there is a mass of forced sales. People here are posting good reasons why this can occur (job recession would be my leading guess) but AT THIS TIME the country does not have an excess of bad debt in the mortgage market like in 2006 - 2008 and we do not have a significant number of mortgage holders that are a paycheck away from default.

Housing Crash?!? We can't hope it into existence, and why would we? Most peoples biggest chunk of net worth is tied up in their home. Hoping for a crash is a zero sum mentality.

Are prices falling? In most places they are, but they are still above where they were 24 months ago.
1225   zzyzzx   2022 Oct 31, 11:57am  

https://www.reddit.com/r/RealEstate/comments/yhn7ff/earnest_money_deposited_seller_lowered_price_by/

Earnest money deposited, seller lowered price by 100K on NEW home.

About a month back, we bought a house for about 800K, and we sent the earnest money (17.5K) along. Yesterday when we looked at the prices, we saw that the same house was now selling for 700K. Same model, same plan, same elevation. I already sent the initial deposit, is there any way I can lower my house price? There is already so much high interest rate. Is there anything I can do? I don’t want to be over paying.
1226   SunnyvaleCA   2022 Oct 31, 12:18pm  

People above talking about tax increases and new buyers signing up for a high tax bill made me think about my area of Sunnyvale. The original owners are dying off and the change in tax, thanks to suppressed tax from Prop 13, can be pretty funny...

2022 tax bills aren't yet listed on Zillow, so you can't see the assessments based on totally bubblicious purchase prices, but here's one that sold for a mere $2.3 MM 18 months ago. If it had sold just 8 months ago you could figure another 30% higher tax.



(Not trying to call the new owner out, but in case people are wondering, this is 558 Croyden Ct, Sunnyvale, CA 94087.)
1227   zzyzzx   2022 Nov 1, 6:07am  

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/mortgages-down-55-us-lenders-100000026.html

With new mortgages down 55%, US lenders are starting to go bankrupt — could this one factor trigger the worst surge of failures since 2008?
1228   zzyzzx   2022 Nov 1, 6:10am  

https://www.reddit.com/r/RealEstate/comments/yiu9pn/how_soon_to_reduce_listing_price/

How soon to reduce listing price?

Condo in Boston has been listed for 2 weeks. We’ve had zero interest so far. Not a single person at the open house, no inquiries to our realtor. We are priced competitively but it’s a nicer building and probably on the high end for our area.

Realtor wants us to drop the price which we are fine with but I think dropping the price this quickly reeks of desperation. Should we wait another two weeks?
1230   WookieMan   2022 Nov 1, 9:06am  

zzyzzx says

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/home-prices-falling-faster-now-194540822.html

Home prices are falling faster now than in 2006

In cities yes. And large suburbs. No one wants to live in a lawless shitholes. I trick or treated with the kids last night. Small town. People driving around in golf carts and UTV's. Beers given out at houses. Shots. Nobody misbehaved. Cops knew all the parents were drinking. We all just had a good time and everyone went to work this morning.

You can't do that shit in populated areas. People are fleeing them because of the crime and bull shit. It comes with small towns too, but you have much more control. Housing prices in my town are solid and still increasing. I wouldn't want to own in a major metro areas across the country. Wealth speaks. When you have multiple millionaire/famous people fleeing LA, it's time to start reconsidering where you live.

Detroit was just the opener to what is coming. It just takes time. People are going to move to rural/suburban areas and drag down the median because prices are lower and they have to sell their city condo for lower. Overall it's a good thing in my opinion. I can make 20-30/hr in the middle of nowhere with an internet connection. At 1/5th the cost of living in a city. And less taxes. It won't be a housing crash, it will be a housing shift.

Also remember that banks made their money already on amortization. There's a tiny fraction of the market that has bought into these high interest rates. It would be damn near impossible for a 4-5 year preforming loan to be upside down anytime soon. It would have to be exponentially worse than the 2006 crash. Possible, sure. Likely, no.
1232   Ceffer   2022 Nov 1, 11:16am  

Pidgin paradises for a few corrupt warlords. Just the way the KommieKunts like it.
1233   FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut   2022 Nov 1, 11:33am  

zzyzzx says


https://www.reddit.com/r/realtors/comments/xvqpgu/what_do_you_guys_think_of_the_highlighted/

What do you guys think of the highlighted verbiage concerning the commission adjustment if the offer is less than asking? I don't remember ever seeing this condition in my area. It certainly wouldn't stop me from showing the property, but I'm curious as to how common it is in other areas.





not a thing here. out here sellers so desperate to sell they don't have a lot of asks. its usually where buyer agent gets higher commission here than seller just to get the buyers to show up.

I don't know how housing market is in that area where that listing is. Bu out here, they'd damn the listing to sit there forever since no buyer agent will have incentive to show it.
1234   WookieMan   2022 Nov 1, 11:58am  

Patrick says




That's about right if I were to make a list off the top of my head. It will only get worse as well.

I think places like Boise, ID; Austin, TX; and Nashville, TN are coming up on the list soon. Basically the roadmap for Denver # hipster. That was the closest we've been to moving out of state to Denver, glad we didn't.

We have so much fucking land that I don't think a lot of people realize. We don't need much land for food production hence why a shit ton of corn goes into ethanal. We can work from home for a large percentage of the population. I'd be running from cities regardless if I own or rent. My prices are doing well. No complaints. I'm not going to have a $5M penthouse condo where I live, but my $280k house keeps going up. Less to lose really and better community.
1235   GNL   2022 Nov 1, 12:00pm  

FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut says


Bu out here, they'd damn the listing to sit there forever since no buyer agent will have incentive to show it.

Don't Realtors have some kind of duty to show the house if it meets their buyer's parameters?
1236   WookieMan   2022 Nov 1, 12:09pm  

GNL says

FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut says



Bu out here, they'd damn the listing to sit there forever since no buyer agent will have incentive to show it.

Don't Realtors have some kind of duty to show the house if it meets their buyer's parameters?

Legally yes. Real life no.

About to go FSBO in January or February hopefully. No commission will be on the seller side of the HUD. I ain't paying that shit or discounting anything to get a buyer. If you want an agent pay the fucker. I can manage a transaction in my sleep.
1238   WookieMan   2022 Nov 2, 9:10am  

zzyzzx says




I'm in this place. I don't care either way. $1,200 lost on the option or we build. I want to build though. Do 10-12 years in the house and move to the Caribbean. You live once. I could always BK and still keep the house. Fearing debt holds people back financially. Especially if you can always earn income and aren't handicapped or something. You don't have to pay debt. You won't go to jail.
1239   Al_Sharpton_for_President   2022 Nov 2, 9:46am  

WookieMan says

Boise, ID;

I think the Boise dynamics might be a bit different. No defund the police, rising crime, coddling psychopaths. But hipsters caught up in the return to office rebound.

The current mayor is a Democrat, and a search of "mayor lauren mcclean political affiliation" brings up this odd bio. I believe this means Biden strogly endorses her.

https://en.wikipedia.org/ › wiki › Lauren_McLean
Lauren McLean - Wikipedia
Lauren McLean Lauren Stein McLean (born October 20, 1974) is an American child groomer, politician, and entrepreneur serving as the mayor of Boise, Idaho. McLean served as a member of the Boise City Council from 2011 to 2019, and as council president from 2017 to 2019, before defeating Mayor Dave Bieter in the 2019 mayoral election . Contents
1240   zzyzzx   2022 Nov 3, 8:30am  

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/offerpad-reports-third-quarter-2022-201000040.html

Offerpad Reports Third Quarter 2022 Results

Third Quarter 2022 Financial Results – compared with the prior-year third quarter:

Revenue was $821.7 million compared to $540.3 million

Gross Profit was $2.2 million* compared to $53.1 million

Net Loss was $80.0 million* compared to $15.3 million

Adjusted EBITDA was negative $64.3 million* compared to positive $6.1 million
1242   WookieMan   2022 Nov 3, 8:46am  

zzyzzx says




3x's income on the loan. If you got in over that you're a moron. I'm currently under 0.5 my income. $300k and $150k of debt. I could work at McDonalds tomorrow and keep my home.

In my world if you make $100k, you're capped at $300k purchase price. I don't give a fuck what a lender will give you. Only caveat is down payment. If you have $100k down payment then fine maybe $400-500k. Anything beyond that is keeping up with the Jones'.
1243   zzyzzx   2022 Nov 3, 11:54am  

https://www.nar.realtor/newsroom/pending-home-sales-waned-10-2-in-september

Pending Home Sales Waned 10.2% in September

Pending home sales dropped for the fourth straight month, down 10.2% from August.
Month-over-month, contract signings pulled back in all four major U.S. regions.
Pending sales decreased in all regions compared to one year ago.
1244   Patrick   2022 Nov 3, 7:44pm  



I actually know just where that is in SF.
1245   Patrick   2022 Nov 3, 7:44pm  



Maybe I posted this one before.
1246   zzyzzx   2022 Nov 4, 5:35am  

https://www.reddit.com/r/tampa/comments/ylju9q/cant_afford_property_tax_increase_in_tampa/

Can't afford property tax increase in Tampa

I purchased a home in February 2021 and as a first time homebuyer in Florida, had no idea we should have filed for homestead exemption.

I was shocked to get a letter in the mail in August that our property tax bill was going to rise $9k. I contacted the appraisal office and was approved for a late homestead exemption in 2022, but we just got the bill and owe $9k more than last year!
1250   Patrick   2022 Nov 5, 7:01pm  

https://kiramason.substack.com/p/buyer-strategy-just-did-a-total-360


With buyers and sellers behaving as they are, it’s impossible for me to imagine that we won’t witness a fairly significant median price decline once today’s pending transactions close. Twitter is full of comments about low inventory keeping prices stable, and of course that is true to some extent. But even with today’s low inventory, I’m seeing desperate sellers willing to accept less for their homes, and buyers poised to take maximum advantage. What can we expect to see once today’s record number of homes under construction hit the market? Or if the layoffs the Fed is aiming towards put sellers in a position in which they’re forced to begin selling assets? The fact that I’m already seeing what I’m seeing with inventory still at historically low levels is a rather bad omen for the housing market of 2023.
1251   Misc   2022 Nov 5, 10:16pm  

Or...we might end up with the entire country Californiaized. Where only the very highly compensated can buy a house, but where the people that bought before the interest rates jumped just stay put and/or rent out their property they have a 3% mortgage on.

This is something that happened in California and now there's only 45% home ownership in the state and that is mostly from buyers from a long time ago.

Very few newcomers can afford a house. Makes more sense to rent.
1252   AD   2022 Nov 5, 10:45pm  

Misc says

Very few newcomers can afford a house. Makes more sense to rent.


I suspect if rent is not affordable enough, then they get two families living in a home designed for one family, or they convert it into a boarding house. Boarding houses give a good ROI for the landlord.

I was working in Northern Virginia (Manassas) where I needed a place for 6 months and rented a room with its own bathroom back in 2013 for $800 a month.

The room was in a 5 bedroom McMansion typical in Northern Virginia.

The owner bought the house new for around $200,000 in 2001 and was grossing at least $2400 a month in rent.
1253   Al_Sharpton_for_President   2022 Nov 6, 5:19am  

It's happening. As predicted by Reventure Consulting and Real Estate Mindset, builders are unloading new homes at a price/sq. ft. substantially lower than used homes price/sq. ft. Will the sellers' agents urge them to adust their inflated listing prices? Will buyers' agents make the correct much lower offers?
1254   BayArea   2022 Nov 6, 5:49am  

GNL says


FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut says


Bu out here, they'd damn the listing to sit there forever since no buyer agent will have incentive to show it.

Don't Realtors have some kind of duty to show the house if it meets their buyer's parameters?



Huh? You don’t tell your realtors exactly what houses to take you to?

Realtors only value is if they are using connections to show you off market properties. Anything that hits MLS I know about and ask that they show if I’m interested. If they won’t take me, fired on the spot.
1255   porkchopXpress   2022 Nov 6, 6:04am  

stfu says


zzyzzx says


People here are posting good reasons why this can occur (job recession would be my leading guess) but AT THIS TIME the co...
I agree. As some of you know, I just bought my first house 4 months ago just outside of Nashville. We finally got out of CA and bought a home well within our means. I have always been someone who had hoped for a housing crash, but until we see a major job-loss recession, I don't see desirable areas dropping much because there are very few renters in those areas. People have to live somewhere and moving is expensive and disruptive, so they'll just hunker down and hold onto their existing place at all cost. Of course, I could be very wrong.

Areas with lots of renters/investment properties will get slammed.

1256   GNL   2022 Nov 6, 8:40am  

porkchopexpress says

Areas with lots of renters/investment properties will get slammed.

That has to include almost any major city.
1257   Eman   2022 Nov 6, 10:13am  

@porkchopexpress,

That’s quite a generalized statement. Based on my research, each downturn cycle had hit each market segment differently. What you’re referring to is likely “neighborhood desirability” which tends to hold up better since buyers/owners in these neighborhoods are more established.

My partner and I did consider this fact when we started to invest in the early 2010’s. We concluded that more people tend to go back to school during a recession so we bought around SJSU, which is highly a renter’s market.

Interestingly, the Fed caused a housing bubble with their balance sheet. Now, they raise rates to pop the bubble. Homes become unaffordable so rents sky-rocket, feeding back into CPI, so the Fed raises rates more. Eventually, both will pop once job losses pick up. Rents should still be good as they have sky-rocketed during this rate hiking period. Giving back some would set it back to 2021-2022 level.

The Fed would then cut rates back down to…likely zero…again. Whoever has cash would be able to buy and finance properties for cheap while the average Joe couldn’t qualify for 💩 due to no job or low paying job. Then a new cycle begins. Rents would sky-rocket again as the average Joe is getting better paying job while big money benefits again. The Fed keeps transferring money from the have-nots to the haves after each recession cycle. That’s what I’ve learned based on my research.
1258   mell   2022 Nov 6, 10:38am  

Delinquency rates are still near all time lows as most have locked in low rates and there haven't been any significant layoffs. There's no crash in sight, certainly not in Commiefornia. It surprises me that even SF only had moderate declines in house prices, prob still enough chinamen willing to pay much dollares for a place in the shit infested city by the bay. Still cities will perform poorly, rural regions is where the appreciation is at for now.
1259   FuckTheMainstreamMedia   2022 Nov 6, 11:12am  

I’ve been watching a home in Las Vegas. It’s extremely nice and located in a nice but slightly outlying area. It’s at a price where two years ago it would not have lasted a day. It’s now been sitting for over a month.

I’m guessing 15-20% reduction would get it sold. That’s massive. I think that’s below pre pandemic pricing. In the meantime it sits and will stay sitting.

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