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6970
DemoralizerOfPanicans
2025 Aug 26, 8:00pm
DemoralizerOfPanicans
2025 Aug 26, 8:00pm
GNL says
There's a big issue.
I have no faith that TPTB will allow the market to function like it should.
There's a big issue.
6971
HeadSet
2025 Aug 26, 8:55pm
HeadSet
2025 Aug 26, 8:55pm
GNL says
Only if savers were spenders. Reality is Lower Rates equals more borrowed money to spend. When borrowing is easier, stocks, cars, and houses inflate.
Interesting take. Lower rates = lower returns = less $$ to spend?
Only if savers were spenders. Reality is Lower Rates equals more borrowed money to spend. When borrowing is easier, stocks, cars, and houses inflate.
6972
Misc
2025 Aug 26, 9:27pm
HeadSet says
That's the way it used to be, but now households hold trillions and trillions of money markets and yes they are using it as income. The increase in borrowing from a lower short term rate is dwarfed by the loss of income from these extra trillions of assets.
GNL says
Interesting take. Lower rates = lower returns = less $$ to spend?
Only if savers were spenders. Reality is Lower Rates equals more borrowed money to spend. When borrowing is easier, stocks, cars, and houses inflate.
That's the way it used to be, but now households hold trillions and trillions of money markets and yes they are using it as income. The increase in borrowing from a lower short term rate is dwarfed by the loss of income from these extra trillions of assets.
6973
GreaterNYCDude
2025 Aug 26, 9:32pm
Personally I think they held rates so low for so long over the first two decades of this century that we have an entire generation who has no idea what it's like for rates to be "normal" by historical standards.
In this cycle lower rates will help to a point but at some point if wages don't start to rise your middle class consumer will be tapped out. So I don't see lowering rates leading directly to inflation, in the short term (one to five years out)... If anything they raised rates TOO quickly coming out of Covid, compared to the more "step wise" approach coming out of the 2008 housing collapse.
Extend and pretend, again. Even with lower rates house prices don't have much more room to run on the coasts. To borrow a phrase, the rent is just too damn high!
I'm not an economist.. just a guy who likes numbers.
Full data set
2000 to present:
Source: Federal Reserve (https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/fedfunds)
In this cycle lower rates will help to a point but at some point if wages don't start to rise your middle class consumer will be tapped out. So I don't see lowering rates leading directly to inflation, in the short term (one to five years out)... If anything they raised rates TOO quickly coming out of Covid, compared to the more "step wise" approach coming out of the 2008 housing collapse.
Extend and pretend, again. Even with lower rates house prices don't have much more room to run on the coasts. To borrow a phrase, the rent is just too damn high!
I'm not an economist.. just a guy who likes numbers.
Full data set
2000 to present:
Source: Federal Reserve (https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/fedfunds)
6974
DemoralizerOfPanicans
2025 Aug 26, 9:37pm
DemoralizerOfPanicans
2025 Aug 26, 9:37pm
GreaterNYCDude says
Yes. "OMG rates are brutally high at 7%" LOL
It's a hit, it's outta here, I'm Phil Rizzuto with THE MONEY STORE... Rates as low as 14.5%!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI9q7nkIryA
Personally I think they held rates so low for so long over the first two decades of this century that we have an entire generation who has no idea what it's like for rates to be "normal" by historical standards.
Yes. "OMG rates are brutally high at 7%" LOL
It's a hit, it's outta here, I'm Phil Rizzuto with THE MONEY STORE... Rates as low as 14.5%!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI9q7nkIryA
6975
ForcedTQ
2025 Aug 26, 9:46pm
Also stupid to drop rates to zero like they did and give away buckets of money. Nothing that could do but cause inflation…
6976
MolotovCocktail
2025 Aug 26, 10:42pm
MolotovCocktail
2025 Aug 26, 10:42pm
Misc says
Nope. Because most ppl barely have $400 in their bank account. Meanwhile, Uncle Sam keeps injecting new money faster than supply of goods occurs.
Inflation is purely a too much money chasing too few goods situation. A monetary phenomenon.
And most incorrectly conflate rising prices with inflation, too. Tariffs do not cause inflation even if they do cause some prices to rise. It's a tax, is all.
Back to inflation..
Reducing rates leads to more lending. Since our banking system is soo fucked up, the Fed ends up loaning more money from printing than banks use deposits. Its supposed to work the other way around but the Fed became a lender of First Resort instead of Last Resort to banks ever since the GFC and never really stopped.
That leads to more consumption on the production side and consumer side via more money being created, causing inflation.. That means higher prices until supply catches up.
Since we are talking about housing here, supply is one big local/state/federal fuckup just like medical care and college costs are. We know what happens when even more money is thrown at it.
A decrease in short term rates reduces the cash flow going to households from their short term interest bearing accounts in an amount greater than the cost savings of the variable rate debt holdings they have.
Read that again. It is now plainly seen that reducing short term rates reduces inflation in the economy.
Nope. Because most ppl barely have $400 in their bank account. Meanwhile, Uncle Sam keeps injecting new money faster than supply of goods occurs.
Inflation is purely a too much money chasing too few goods situation. A monetary phenomenon.
And most incorrectly conflate rising prices with inflation, too. Tariffs do not cause inflation even if they do cause some prices to rise. It's a tax, is all.
Back to inflation..
Reducing rates leads to more lending. Since our banking system is soo fucked up, the Fed ends up loaning more money from printing than banks use deposits. Its supposed to work the other way around but the Fed became a lender of First Resort instead of Last Resort to banks ever since the GFC and never really stopped.
That leads to more consumption on the production side and consumer side via more money being created, causing inflation.. That means higher prices until supply catches up.
Since we are talking about housing here, supply is one big local/state/federal fuckup just like medical care and college costs are. We know what happens when even more money is thrown at it.
6977
Misc
2025 Aug 26, 10:58pm
We are at peak everything. Peak debt. Households have record cash. Close enough to peak real estate prices. Peak stock market. Peak gold prices with households having record amounts of physical gold/silver. Record GDP Savings rate is good at 4.5% and looking for places to put this savings.
Mal-investment is everywhere.
Mal-investment is everywhere.
6978
DemoralizerOfPanicans
2025 Aug 26, 11:18pm
DemoralizerOfPanicans
2025 Aug 26, 11:18pm
Misc says
There's only one way to cure Mal-investment.
And boy will many people hate it.
Mal-investment is everywhere.
There's only one way to cure Mal-investment.
And boy will many people hate it.
6979
Misc
2025 Aug 26, 11:44pm
US household net wealth is over $170 trillion.
We have more liquid cash type assets than mortgages outstanding.
We are saving over $1 trillion per year.
If our net wealth simply keeps up with inflation, that's a nominal increase of $4-5 trillion per year.
If the Fed doesn't lower mortgage rates dramatically, Trump is going to send out tax rebate checks based on the amount of tariffs received.
We have more liquid cash type assets than mortgages outstanding.
We are saving over $1 trillion per year.
If our net wealth simply keeps up with inflation, that's a nominal increase of $4-5 trillion per year.
If the Fed doesn't lower mortgage rates dramatically, Trump is going to send out tax rebate checks based on the amount of tariffs received.
6980
SunnyvaleCA
2025 Aug 27, 12:18am
Regardless of interest rates, one thing that is a big negative for the economy is people having to start (or re-start) paying back their student loans. I wonder how much of a drag that puts on local economies. I know one borrower who called the administrative department, couldn't get through, and so decided to not bother paying. Is that common? How long will that go on for? Is it one of those little secrets where people in the know there are no consequences for pretending ot be ignorant?
6981
AD
2025 Aug 27, 12:20am
AD
2025 Aug 27, 12:20am
Misc says
so what is the end state or outcome ?
some big reset like housing prices crashing to affordable levels in 2009-2012 ?
.
We are at peak everything. Peak debt. Households have record cash. Close enough to peak real estate prices. Peak stock market. Peak gold prices with households having record amounts of physical gold/silver. Record GDP Savings rate is good at 4.5% and looking for places to put this savings.
Mal-investment is everywhere.
so what is the end state or outcome ?
some big reset like housing prices crashing to affordable levels in 2009-2012 ?
.
6982
AD
2025 Aug 27, 12:26am
AD
2025 Aug 27, 12:26am
MolotovCocktail says
I recall Bob Brinker in his MoneyTalk radio show saying it was like helicopter money as far as dropping money from a helicopter onto a crowd.
Maybe a lot of vacation rentals will be converted to long term rentals to help with supply.
I just saw this on WMBB about my county: "Last school year, Bay District Schools had a total of 21,690 students enrolled. This year, that number went down to 21,219."
Meanwhile I've seen no ongoing construction such as townhomes and "luxury" apartment complexes over the last 12 months, and rent for a 3 bedroom, 2 car garage townhome on the beach is around $2,000 and same price as back in 2021.
............
Uncle Sam keeps injecting new money faster than supply of goods occurs.
I recall Bob Brinker in his MoneyTalk radio show saying it was like helicopter money as far as dropping money from a helicopter onto a crowd.
Maybe a lot of vacation rentals will be converted to long term rentals to help with supply.
I just saw this on WMBB about my county: "Last school year, Bay District Schools had a total of 21,690 students enrolled. This year, that number went down to 21,219."
Meanwhile I've seen no ongoing construction such as townhomes and "luxury" apartment complexes over the last 12 months, and rent for a 3 bedroom, 2 car garage townhome on the beach is around $2,000 and same price as back in 2021.
............
6983
AD
2025 Aug 27, 12:30am
AD
2025 Aug 27, 12:30am
Misc says
CBO forecasts the FY 2025 deficit essentially being the same as FY 2024 deficit, at least adjusted for inflation. And the FY 2025 deficit is slightly less as a percentage of GDP.
This will be first time since FY 2001 that the deficit has not increased.
....
If the Fed doesn't lower mortgage rates dramatically, Trump is going to send out tax rebate checks based on the amount of tariffs received.
CBO forecasts the FY 2025 deficit essentially being the same as FY 2024 deficit, at least adjusted for inflation. And the FY 2025 deficit is slightly less as a percentage of GDP.
This will be first time since FY 2001 that the deficit has not increased.
....
6984
FortWayneHatesRealtors
2025 Aug 27, 4:11am
DemoralizerOfPanicans says
Government doesn’t let it happen anymore, they just print away inflation to bail it out.
Capitalism crashes periodically to fix that, we haven’t had a crash because of money printer bailing out bad investments. We kinda screwed now by our own government.
Misc says
Mal-investment is everywhere.
There's only one way to cure Mal-investment.
And boy will many people hate it.
Government doesn’t let it happen anymore, they just print away inflation to bail it out.
Capitalism crashes periodically to fix that, we haven’t had a crash because of money printer bailing out bad investments. We kinda screwed now by our own government.
6985
Misc
2025 Aug 27, 5:09am
The problem is savers. Household net wealth is about $170 trillion. America's savings rate is about 4.5% so a bit over $1 trillion per year. That $170 trillion to keep up with inflation is about another $4-5 trillion in nominal bucks. If you want a real rate of return of 2% on your investments...well that's another $3.5 trillion, and Americans have been told to expect much more than that. So that totals up to $9 trillion in nominal dollars. The American GDP is about $28 trillion. If you think it's possible to find $9 trillion in new investments when the economy is $28 trillion...well a shit ton of that $9 trillion is bogus. So instead of spending the money, savers would rather have a massive build up of assets that are really worth just a few pennies on the dollar. Then they are shocked when price discovery takes place. Basically they would rather lose the money on investments rather than spend it.
6986
GNL
2025 Aug 27, 6:28am
GNL
2025 Aug 27, 6:28am
Misc says
Is this sarcasm?
US household net wealth is over $170 trillion.
We have more liquid cash type assets than mortgages outstanding.
We are saving over $1 trillion per year.
If our net wealth simply keeps up with inflation, that's a nominal increase of $4-5 trillion per year.
If the Fed doesn't lower mortgage rates dramatically, Trump is going to send out tax rebate checks based on the amount of tariffs received.
Is this sarcasm?
6988
HeadSet
2025 Aug 27, 8:57am
HeadSet
2025 Aug 27, 8:57am
Misc says
It appears that you are including home equity as part of "savings." One cannot spend equity, only borrow against it.
The problem is savers. Household net wealth is about $170 trillion.
It appears that you are including home equity as part of "savings." One cannot spend equity, only borrow against it.
6989
WookieMan
2025 Aug 27, 9:10am
WookieMan
2025 Aug 27, 9:10am
GNL says
Eh, probably not. We shut down the country for the common cold for almost 2 years and gave people money. If the Fed doesn't play nice in Trumps world I wouldn't be shocked by a move like this. If he can win the midterms he gets his agenda. He'll still get the rate cuts too, at least 1-2 before '26.
Anyone living in the doom and gloom world is not seeing the plan. Not saying the tariff checks would happen but I wouldn't at all be surprised. Dump the illegals give blacks money and guess what, you win House seats and maybe some Senate seats.
If the Fed doesn't lower mortgage rates dramatically, Trump is going to send out tax rebate checks based on the amount of tariffs received.
Is this sarcasm?
Eh, probably not. We shut down the country for the common cold for almost 2 years and gave people money. If the Fed doesn't play nice in Trumps world I wouldn't be shocked by a move like this. If he can win the midterms he gets his agenda. He'll still get the rate cuts too, at least 1-2 before '26.
Anyone living in the doom and gloom world is not seeing the plan. Not saying the tariff checks would happen but I wouldn't at all be surprised. Dump the illegals give blacks money and guess what, you win House seats and maybe some Senate seats.
6991
AD
2025 Aug 29, 2:22pm
AD
2025 Aug 29, 2:22pm
.
https://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/markets/mortgage-rates-08282025
down to 6.5% for conventional mortgages (non FHA, non VA, non government backed)
once down to 6% then it would increase sales volume and sellers more incentives to buy down 4 discount points to lower the rate from 6% to 5%
considering that all time high price was set when the rate was 3%
Zillow now shows 6.25% for FHA mortgages in Panama City Beach
.
https://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/markets/mortgage-rates-08282025
down to 6.5% for conventional mortgages (non FHA, non VA, non government backed)
once down to 6% then it would increase sales volume and sellers more incentives to buy down 4 discount points to lower the rate from 6% to 5%
considering that all time high price was set when the rate was 3%
Zillow now shows 6.25% for FHA mortgages in Panama City Beach
.
6992
DemoralizerOfPanicans
2025 Sep 1, 5:22pm
Pending sales in all regions near record lows. Pending sales fell sharply in the Midwest, but also declined in the South and Northeast. The West was the only region where pending sales rose. Pending sales remained near record lows in all four regions.
Pending sales of existing homes in the US, compared to the Julys in prior years:
2024: +0.7%
2023: -6.5%
2022: -21%
2021: -36%
2020: -41%
2019: -32%.
The Buyers’ Strike continues because prices are too high after shooting up by 50% or more within 2-3 years. Those prices no longer make economic sense.
While inventory surged. This plunge in demand coincides with surging inventories of existing homes for sale – despite large waves of delistings by frustrated sellers – leading to the most supply since July 2016 over the past three months, along with May 2020.
Split out by single-family homes and condos: Supply of single family homes rose to 4.5 months while supply of condos has been over 6 months since April, the highest since 2012 at the end of the Housing Bust. Here is the combined supply:
https://wolfstreet.com/2025/08/28/buyers-strike-pending-home-sales-drop-further-plunge-in-midwest-near-record-lows-in-all-regions-even-as-supply-balloons/
DemoralizerOfPanicans
2025 Sep 1, 5:22pm
Pending sales in all regions near record lows. Pending sales fell sharply in the Midwest, but also declined in the South and Northeast. The West was the only region where pending sales rose. Pending sales remained near record lows in all four regions.
Pending sales of existing homes in the US, compared to the Julys in prior years:
2024: +0.7%
2023: -6.5%
2022: -21%
2021: -36%
2020: -41%
2019: -32%.
The Buyers’ Strike continues because prices are too high after shooting up by 50% or more within 2-3 years. Those prices no longer make economic sense.
While inventory surged. This plunge in demand coincides with surging inventories of existing homes for sale – despite large waves of delistings by frustrated sellers – leading to the most supply since July 2016 over the past three months, along with May 2020.
Split out by single-family homes and condos: Supply of single family homes rose to 4.5 months while supply of condos has been over 6 months since April, the highest since 2012 at the end of the Housing Bust. Here is the combined supply:
https://wolfstreet.com/2025/08/28/buyers-strike-pending-home-sales-drop-further-plunge-in-midwest-near-record-lows-in-all-regions-even-as-supply-balloons/
6993
DemoralizerOfPanicans
2025 Sep 1, 5:27pm
DemoralizerOfPanicans
2025 Sep 1, 5:27pm
Winter is going to be interesting. Florida leapt 23% in listings over last year and is on the way to 200,000 listings, despite deluded homeloaners delisting hoping that relisting later will get them COVID pricing.
Stretching to the extreme for a modest suburban ranch at price that a McMansion cost just a few years ago... Yet taxed and insured at 30% higher rates than before COVID at the new higher price points.
I can rent a 90s 1400sq ft for $1800. Leaky Roof or Pipes? Not my problem. Why would I pay $2500 to own the same thing, except it's my problem when the roof goes or the Carrier needs replacement? If the rate goes down a full point I'm still paying over $400 more for more responsibility and little benefit.
And if I was willing to pay $2500, Why not pay $100-200 more/month and buy new, everything under warranty, all new appliances, modern non-Florida Tile wood look floors, grey not billard green or rose pink walls, USB in the walls, teaser rates, and 15% larger?
Stretching to the extreme for a modest suburban ranch at price that a McMansion cost just a few years ago... Yet taxed and insured at 30% higher rates than before COVID at the new higher price points.
I can rent a 90s 1400sq ft for $1800. Leaky Roof or Pipes? Not my problem. Why would I pay $2500 to own the same thing, except it's my problem when the roof goes or the Carrier needs replacement? If the rate goes down a full point I'm still paying over $400 more for more responsibility and little benefit.
And if I was willing to pay $2500, Why not pay $100-200 more/month and buy new, everything under warranty, all new appliances, modern non-Florida Tile wood look floors, grey not billard green or rose pink walls, USB in the walls, teaser rates, and 15% larger?
6994
DemoralizerOfPanicans
2025 Sep 1, 5:52pm
DemoralizerOfPanicans
2025 Sep 1, 5:52pm
Rent for $1800 https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/949-Serenade-St-NW-Palm-Bay-FL-32907/80767434_zpid/
Or buy similar for... $295k
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1500-Gardenton-St-NW-Palm-Bay-FL-32907/43484232_zpid/
Above was 180k in 2017. Is this house really worth 400% more from it's 2001 price 25 years later? Hell no. Have wages gone up 400% since 2001? Hell no. That means somebody with a $30k job in 2001 would have to make $120k today. I don't think too many assistant managers of Ace Hardware or F/T Dentist Office Techs made as little as $30k in 2001, not even in low-wage Florida. Shit, probably most F/T Denny's waiters made $30k or more in 2001. They ain't making $120k today.
At best, this is a $210k house. $2600 @ 6.5% vs. $2400 @ 5.5% is a nothing against $1800 for the same shit, same age, same size,etc. And for $2800 you could have all new - probably less once you factor in reduced insurance costs and first decade of reduced maintenance costs.
Mama says knock these house prices out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vimZj8HW0Kg
Or buy similar for... $295k
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1500-Gardenton-St-NW-Palm-Bay-FL-32907/43484232_zpid/
Above was 180k in 2017. Is this house really worth 400% more from it's 2001 price 25 years later? Hell no. Have wages gone up 400% since 2001? Hell no. That means somebody with a $30k job in 2001 would have to make $120k today. I don't think too many assistant managers of Ace Hardware or F/T Dentist Office Techs made as little as $30k in 2001, not even in low-wage Florida. Shit, probably most F/T Denny's waiters made $30k or more in 2001. They ain't making $120k today.
At best, this is a $210k house. $2600 @ 6.5% vs. $2400 @ 5.5% is a nothing against $1800 for the same shit, same age, same size,etc. And for $2800 you could have all new - probably less once you factor in reduced insurance costs and first decade of reduced maintenance costs.
Mama says knock these house prices out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vimZj8HW0Kg
6995
MolotovCocktail
2025 Sep 1, 6:57pm
MolotovCocktail
2025 Sep 1, 6:57pm
DemoralizerOfPanicans says
No, no. One of our resident Housing Experts of PatNet insists this can only be happening in 'hipster' coastal states/cities, remember?
Pending sales in all regions near record lows.
No, no. One of our resident Housing Experts of PatNet insists this can only be happening in 'hipster' coastal states/cities, remember?
6996
DemoralizerOfPanicans
2025 Sep 1, 7:28pm
DemoralizerOfPanicans
2025 Sep 1, 7:28pm
And Florida is no "Under $3000 insurance for SFH", not in this county or any Central Florida County. People who were paying $1200-1800 5 years ago are paying well over $3000 despite new roofs and raising their deductible substantially, regardless of age of distance from the ocean, in fact houses on the island are easily paying twice that. This is true from Hillsborough to Lake to Brevard.
This county hasn't had real hurricane damage or flooding in ages. it's in a "Nearly Dead Zone" stretching between Sebastian, FL and Brunswick, GA where hurricanes very seldom land due to vagarities of the Gulf Stream and Hydrography. When this region gets hit it's usually from a storm that entered the mainland from the Gulf, not the Atlantic, and lost most of it's strength over the land.
1990-2025 Storm Track: Yellow is Cat 1, Green is a Tropical Storm. Red, Orange, Purple Cat 2+
This county hasn't had real hurricane damage or flooding in ages. it's in a "Nearly Dead Zone" stretching between Sebastian, FL and Brunswick, GA where hurricanes very seldom land due to vagarities of the Gulf Stream and Hydrography. When this region gets hit it's usually from a storm that entered the mainland from the Gulf, not the Atlantic, and lost most of it's strength over the land.
1990-2025 Storm Track: Yellow is Cat 1, Green is a Tropical Storm. Red, Orange, Purple Cat 2+
6997
Patrick
2025 Sep 1, 8:19pm
Patrick
2025 Sep 1, 8:19pm
https://wolfstreet.com/2025/08/28/buyers-strike-pending-home-sales-drop-further-plunge-in-midwest-near-record-lows-in-all-regions-even-as-supply-balloons/
Buyers Strike: Pending Home Sales Drop Further, Plunge in Midwest, Near Record Lows in All Regions, as Supply Balloons
by Wolf Richter Aug 28, 2025
6998
WookieMan
2025 Sep 1, 8:39pm
WookieMan
2025 Sep 1, 8:39pm
MolotovCocktail says
No. Not where I live. Midwest is doing just fine. Not a boom, but not decreasing outside of cities. Provide evidence. You won't. Most are easily outpacing inflation.
Illinois:
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/55433/dekalb-il/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/197/kane-county-il/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/1835/kendall-county-il/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/1922/mchenry-county-il/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/2363/kankakee-county-il/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/220/lake-county-il/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/83/lee-county-il/
Wisconsin
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/146/dane-county-wi/ (Leftyville)
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/1837/kenosha-county-wi/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/149/door-county-wi/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/1813/jackson-county-wi/
Iowa
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/1624/clinton-county-ia/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/235/linn-county-ia/
Any time you want to back up trash talking go ahead. The RE market is just fine here. Solid, not losing and mostly outpacing inflation.
California (coastal)
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/3229/santa-barbara-county-ca/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/2841/san-diego-county-ca/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/3101/los-angeles-county-ca/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/255/napa-county-ca/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/2444/monterey-county-ca/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/3159/contra-costa-county-ca/
Florida (coastal)
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/3026/santa-rosa-county-fl/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/67/bay-county-fl/ (sorry AD, making a point)
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/2993/palm-beach-county-fl/
I can do this all day.
Hipster
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/389/boise-county-id/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/2243/davidson-county-tn/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/2299/gallatin-county-mt/
There are waaaaaaaaay more examples. Rural housing is doing well. I know you won't click into a single link because you know you're wrong.
No, no. One of our resident Housing Experts of PatNet insists this can only be happening in 'hipster' coastal states/cities, remember?
No. Not where I live. Midwest is doing just fine. Not a boom, but not decreasing outside of cities. Provide evidence. You won't. Most are easily outpacing inflation.
Illinois:
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/55433/dekalb-il/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/197/kane-county-il/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/1835/kendall-county-il/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/1922/mchenry-county-il/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/2363/kankakee-county-il/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/220/lake-county-il/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/83/lee-county-il/
Wisconsin
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/146/dane-county-wi/ (Leftyville)
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/1837/kenosha-county-wi/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/149/door-county-wi/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/1813/jackson-county-wi/
Iowa
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/1624/clinton-county-ia/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/235/linn-county-ia/
Any time you want to back up trash talking go ahead. The RE market is just fine here. Solid, not losing and mostly outpacing inflation.
California (coastal)
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/3229/santa-barbara-county-ca/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/2841/san-diego-county-ca/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/3101/los-angeles-county-ca/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/255/napa-county-ca/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/2444/monterey-county-ca/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/3159/contra-costa-county-ca/
Florida (coastal)
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/3026/santa-rosa-county-fl/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/67/bay-county-fl/ (sorry AD, making a point)
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/2993/palm-beach-county-fl/
I can do this all day.
Hipster
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/389/boise-county-id/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/2243/davidson-county-tn/
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/2299/gallatin-county-mt/
There are waaaaaaaaay more examples. Rural housing is doing well. I know you won't click into a single link because you know you're wrong.
6999
AD
2025 Sep 1, 9:34pm
AD
2025 Sep 1, 9:34pm
DemoralizerOfPanicans says
FROM FLORIDA OFFICE OF INSURANCE REGULATION for estimates on HO-3 insurance for a $300,000 new construction single family detached home
And Florida is no "Under $3000 insurance for SFH", not in this county or any Central Florida County. People who were paying $1200-1800 5 years ago are paying well over $3000 despite new roofs and raising their deductible substantially, regardless of age of distance from the ocean, in fact houses on the island are easily paying twice that. This is true from Hillsborough to Lake to Brevard.
This county hasn't had real hurricane damage or flooding in ages. it's in a "Nearly Dead Zone" stretching between Ft. Pierce, FL and Brunswick, GA where hurricanes very seldom land due to vagarities of the Gulf Stream and Hydrography. When this region gets hit it's usually from a storm that entered the mainland from the Gulf, not the Atlantic, and lost most of it's strength over the land.
FROM FLORIDA OFFICE OF INSURANCE REGULATION for estimates on HO-3 insurance for a $300,000 new construction single family detached home
7000
DemoralizerOfPanicans
2025 Sep 2, 12:08am
DemoralizerOfPanicans
2025 Sep 2, 12:08am
AD says
HO-3 policies generally exclude Floods, which is the most common type of hurricane damage. According to this website listed below, in 2021 the average Flood policy cost $700/year additional
https://davidlowpa.com/ho3-homeowners-policies-in-florida/
9 of those 14 rates are over $3000, and that's for NEW Construction. 10 if one rounds the $2,961 up to the nearest hundred for Universal.
Citizens is the State insurer of last resort and covers 1.2M properties, making it the top insurer in Florida, covering about twice as many as the #2 provider, State Farm. Universal is #3, just behind State Farm at about half a million. Apparently State Farm and Universal combined roughly equal Citizens.
https://floir.com/property-casualty/market-overview
The state average for Florida insurance is getting on $4,000 with wind coverage. And just shy of $3000 without.
AFAIK, Citizens required wind policy holders to add Flood, but Flood is not required of Private Insurance for state admitted policies.
FROM FLORIDA OFFICE OF INSURANCE REGULATION for estimates on HO-3 insurance for a $300,000 new construction single family detached home
HO-3 policies generally exclude Floods, which is the most common type of hurricane damage. According to this website listed below, in 2021 the average Flood policy cost $700/year additional
https://davidlowpa.com/ho3-homeowners-policies-in-florida/
9 of those 14 rates are over $3000, and that's for NEW Construction. 10 if one rounds the $2,961 up to the nearest hundred for Universal.
Citizens is the State insurer of last resort and covers 1.2M properties, making it the top insurer in Florida, covering about twice as many as the #2 provider, State Farm. Universal is #3, just behind State Farm at about half a million. Apparently State Farm and Universal combined roughly equal Citizens.
https://floir.com/property-casualty/market-overview
The state average for Florida insurance is getting on $4,000 with wind coverage. And just shy of $3000 without.
AFAIK, Citizens required wind policy holders to add Flood, but Flood is not required of Private Insurance for state admitted policies.
7001
DemoralizerOfPanicans
2025 Sep 2, 12:28am
DemoralizerOfPanicans
2025 Sep 2, 12:28am
WookieMan says
Curious to hear about Asheville, NC, which is apparently Hipster from what I hear (I haven't been and know nobody there).
Hipster
Curious to hear about Asheville, NC, which is apparently Hipster from what I hear (I haven't been and know nobody there).
7002
WookieMan
2025 Sep 2, 3:11am
WookieMan
2025 Sep 2, 3:11am
DemoralizerOfPanicans says
County overall is down. https://www.zillow.com/home-values/2156/buncombe-county-nc/
Asheville proper is down. https://www.zillow.com/home-values/50779/asheville-nc/
It's not massive but down. That one is a toss up for hipster and coastal. A little over 5 hours to Myrtle Beach, SC. Early morning wake up and you're at the beach before noon as long as you're not driving a Tesla, which a lot of people from Asheville probably do.
Like IL plenty of people make 5 hours trip up to their Wisconsin or Michigan lake houses. Just our prices are increasing. Hell I didn't post Cook county home to one of the most bitched about cities, Chicago and is up 2%: https://www.zillow.com/home-values/139/cook-county-il/
Molotov won't do the research. Hopefully now he understands where I'm coming from. But he doesn't understand the midwest. I have a 25% knowledge of FL real estate, but I'll trust what users who live there say.
Here's more.
Denver: https://www.zillow.com/home-values/11093/denver-co/ Down a lot. And yes Denver is the OG hipster city because of legal weed, Subaru's and 4 Runners being everywhere.
All the places in the longer comment above I've personally been to them all. So I don't just make shit up as accused of constantly and I will come with data. Getting annoyed by a troll (not you) that says I'm wrong. I believe you've said you're in Florida and AD is in Florida, I'll trust the words from the boots on the ground users. Not someone that probably never goes anywhere (again not you).
With real estate and stocks, prices change. A year from now my comments could be made to look wrong. But my recent comments I've proven coastal and hipster areas are down. The midwest is fine and increasing in all the links above. I'll have to do Texas and the other south areas. Gotta shower and get the kids going.
WookieMan says
Hipster
Curious to hear about Asheville, NC, which is apparently Hipster from what I hear (I haven't been and know nobody there).
County overall is down. https://www.zillow.com/home-values/2156/buncombe-county-nc/
Asheville proper is down. https://www.zillow.com/home-values/50779/asheville-nc/
It's not massive but down. That one is a toss up for hipster and coastal. A little over 5 hours to Myrtle Beach, SC. Early morning wake up and you're at the beach before noon as long as you're not driving a Tesla, which a lot of people from Asheville probably do.
Like IL plenty of people make 5 hours trip up to their Wisconsin or Michigan lake houses. Just our prices are increasing. Hell I didn't post Cook county home to one of the most bitched about cities, Chicago and is up 2%: https://www.zillow.com/home-values/139/cook-county-il/
Molotov won't do the research. Hopefully now he understands where I'm coming from. But he doesn't understand the midwest. I have a 25% knowledge of FL real estate, but I'll trust what users who live there say.
Here's more.
Denver: https://www.zillow.com/home-values/11093/denver-co/ Down a lot. And yes Denver is the OG hipster city because of legal weed, Subaru's and 4 Runners being everywhere.
All the places in the longer comment above I've personally been to them all. So I don't just make shit up as accused of constantly and I will come with data. Getting annoyed by a troll (not you) that says I'm wrong. I believe you've said you're in Florida and AD is in Florida, I'll trust the words from the boots on the ground users. Not someone that probably never goes anywhere (again not you).
With real estate and stocks, prices change. A year from now my comments could be made to look wrong. But my recent comments I've proven coastal and hipster areas are down. The midwest is fine and increasing in all the links above. I'll have to do Texas and the other south areas. Gotta shower and get the kids going.
7003
MolotovCocktail
2025 Sep 2, 7:08am
MolotovCocktail
2025 Sep 2, 7:08am
WookieMan says
I do, but you just engage in magical thinking otherwise.
Then you write pontificating volumes of contradictory statements laced by non-expert terms like 'hipster' fueled by not keeping track of what is purely imagination in your head vs reality.
All the while exposing how that your real issue is being triggered by my exposure of your constant bullshit, nothing more.
Provide evidence. You won't.
I do, but you just engage in magical thinking otherwise.
Then you write pontificating volumes of contradictory statements laced by non-expert terms like 'hipster' fueled by not keeping track of what is purely imagination in your head vs reality.
All the while exposing how that your real issue is being triggered by my exposure of your constant bullshit, nothing more.
7004
MolotovCocktail
2025 Sep 2, 7:10am
MolotovCocktail
2025 Sep 2, 7:10am
WookieMan says
So fucking what? That doesn't mean anything.
WookieMan says
Ibid.
All the places in the longer comment above I've personally been to them all.
So fucking what? That doesn't mean anything.
WookieMan says
So I don't just make shit up
Ibid.
7005
WookieMan
2025 Sep 2, 10:50am
WookieMan
2025 Sep 2, 10:50am
MolotovCocktail says
Okay. You haven't. So don't comment on it since you don't know the areas. Comment on what you know. I'm not gonna sit here and argue about arguing. Provide evidence or STFU.
WookieMan says
All the places in the longer comment above I've personally been to them all.
So fucking what? That doesn't mean anything.
Okay. You haven't. So don't comment on it since you don't know the areas. Comment on what you know. I'm not gonna sit here and argue about arguing. Provide evidence or STFU.
7007
MolotovCocktail
2025 Sep 2, 1:01pm
MolotovCocktail
2025 Sep 2, 1:01pm
WookieMan says
That's all you do...not very good, either.
Again: this is only about you feeling threatened because your bullshit gets called out.
I'm not gonna sit here and argue about arguing
That's all you do...not very good, either.
Again: this is only about you feeling threatened because your bullshit gets called out.
7008
WookieMan
2025 Sep 2, 1:19pm
WookieMan
2025 Sep 2, 1:19pm
MolotovCocktail says
When? No other user has. See a doctor buddy.
WookieMan says
I'm not gonna sit here and argue about arguing
That's all you do...not very good, either.
Again: this is only about you feeling threatened because your bullshit gets called out.
When? No other user has. See a doctor buddy.
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https://finance.yahoo.com/news/pimco-kiesel-called-housing-top-160339396.html?source=patrick.net
Bond manager Mark Kiesel sold his California home in 2006, when he presciently predicted the housing bubble would pop. He bought again in 2012, after U.S. prices fell more than 30% and found a floor.
Now, after a record surge in prices, Kiesel says the time to sell is once again at hand.