patrick.net

It's worth that price...it has Techron

Only $6.199 ?

Enjoy low gas prices while they last.

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The price of gasoline is the same now as it was in June 2008 yet a barrel of oil is a lot less in price compared to 2008 :-/

Avg price of gas: $4.30 a gallon
Price of barrel of oil: $106

Back in June 2008:
Avg price of gas: $4.25
Price of barrel of oil: $185

reference: https://www.macrotrends.net/1369/crude-oil-price-history-chart?source=patrick.net

,

ad says

The price of gasoline is the same now as it was in June 2008 yet a barrel of oil is a lot less in price compared to 2008 :-/

Avg price of gas: $4.30 a gallon
Price of barrel of oil: $106

Back in June 2008:
Avg price of gas: $4.25
Price of barrel of oil: $185

reference: https://www.macrotrends.net/1369/crude-oil-price-history-chart?source=patrick.net

,

Exon et al. Pocketing the difference, “with 10 for the big guy.”

ad says

The price of gasoline is the same now as it was in June 2008 yet a barrel of oil is a lot less in price compared to 2008 :-/

Avg price of gas: $4.30 a gallon
Price of barrel of oil: $106

Back in June 2008:
Avg price of gas: $4.25
Price of barrel of oil: $185

reference: https://www.macrotrends.net/1369/crude-oil-price-history-chart?source=patrick.net

,

Inflation and shortages of labor and goods. Not saying the gas companies aren't taking advantage of the overall inflation going on, but they are likely dealing with supply side issues on their end. It also takes oil to get to the oil.

It's a give take scenario. Sure it's awesome if oil prices are high for a drilling company, but they're also paying higher prices to get to the oil. So they charge a higher price.

What doesn't make any sense is that almost everyone I know with a white collar job is mostly working from home now. With Covid our reserves should be through the roof with the lockdowns. There's no reason for gas prices to be this high. It's not Russia. It's not Covid. This is clearly a policy failure by the Biden administration. There's really not much else to this. The situation could be fixed in 1-2 months and gas is 30-50% less. States could also reduce gas taxes as it's a percentage at the pump. Roads and infrastructure should be perfect over the next 2 years with these gas prices.... we all know that won't happen.

WookieMan says

There's no reason for gas prices to be this high

Actually there is for several reasons. The greed factor by the large oil companies has already been covered on th8s forum within the last two months, several times by myself.

The bigger reason is our dear friends and allies, The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia who need $65 per bbl just to break even. Higher prices allow the House of Saud to keep their populace happy with handouts and reducing the risk of a political overthrow of the House of Saud.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SAUPZPIOILBEGUSD?source=patrick.net

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1106014/saudi-arabia-breakeven-oil-price-by-account/?source=patrick.net

WookieMan says

The situation could be fixed in 1-2 months

How ? The oil companies are not going to cooperate and if Biden & Company try to force them to do something, everyone ( at least on here )will be screaming about the interference with the free market economy and a "libtard" "commie" takeover of the oil industry etc. along with a half a dozen conspiracy theories.

WookieMan says

What doesn't make any sense is that almost everyone I know with a white collar job is mostly working from home now.

What about all those deadbeat blue collar types who still have to show up for work as well as the working poor who have two or three jobs just to have someplace to live and some basic food.

Not many blue collar types in your circle of friends and associates ?

WookieMan says

There's really not much else to this

There is lots more including the number or refineries that have been shuttered in the last 5 years but best to blame someone easy rather than actually digging around and learning something about the industry and why we are where we are.

Trump, Biden - I don't care who is in the White House - they alone and their administrations can do little in the big scheme of things to bring gas/diesel prices down in a meaningful way and for a long period of time.

Presidents do make easy targets for everyone to blame and who doesn't like to have someone to blame ? It is a great pastime and the Personal Injury lawyers love the sport.

“The oil and gas industry, in addition to trying to seize this moment for all the profits it can squeeze, is trying to lock in another generation of extraction emissions,” he says.

“These companies are thinking in decades,” Finley says. “None of these companies are going to jump in with both feet on one or two quarters of data and say, we’re completely changing everything.”

One analysis from the Wall Street Journal found that the nine largest U.S. oil producers spent 54% more in share repurchases and dividends in the first quarter than they invested in new oil developments. Similarly, a recent report covering the 20 largest U.S. oil companies published by the environmentalist organization Friends Of The Earth and consumer watchdog organizations Public Citizen and BailoutWatch, tallied $56 billion in new share buyback authorizations in the roughly seven months since last October, compared with $11 billion announced in the nine months before that.

More stuff here: https://news.yahoo.com/oil-companies-posted-huge-profits-121821462.html?source=patrick.net

WookieMan says

The price of gasoline is the same now as it was in June 2008 yet a barrel of oil is a lot less in price compared to 2008 :-/

Crack prices...the cost that refineries charge to convert oil into fuel is up over 500%....so the reality is that $100/bbl oil is really $150/bbl

ad says

The price of gasoline is the same now as it was in June 2008 yet a barrel of oil is a lot less in price compared to 2008 :-/

Avg price of gas: $4.30 a gallon
Price of barrel of oil: $106

Back in June 2008:
Avg price of gas: $4.25
Price of barrel of oil: $185

reference: https://www.macrotrends.net/1369/crude-oil-price-history-chart?source=patrick.net

,

What a load of shit.

What we get, for what we pay, gasoline is very cheap, - Bargain of The Millenia.

Even at $20 per gallon, a super cheap bargain. At $20 per gallon, it's a dollar per mile in a modest 20 mpg vehicle. A dollar a mile to haul a load of groceries, chauffeur a minivan load of kids to school or sports practice; take seniors to their appointments. Even a bargain at $20 per gallon.

B.A.C.A.H. says

What we get, for what we pay, gasoline is very cheap, - Bargain of The Millenia.

Even at $20 per gallon, a super cheap bargain. At $20 per gallon, it's a dollar per mile in a modest 20 mpg vehicle. A dollar a mile to haul a load of groceries, chauffeur a minivan load of kids to school or sports practice; take seniors to their appointments. Even a bargain at $20 per gallon.

Don’t give them any ideas. $20 to get to work? Still sound like a bargain to “you want fries with that guy?”

HunterTits says

What a load of shit.

It is true. Please see : https://www.gasbuddy.com/charts

I did make an error with the price of barrel (42 gallons) of oil. It should be $127 in June 2008.

This is AD's other account. I forgot the password to my account for AD. And my inbox and spam folder are no showing the password reset emails.

Very Respectfully, AD
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DooDahMan says

“The oil and gas industry, in addition to trying to seize this moment for all the profits it can squeeze, is trying to lock in another generation of extraction emissions,” he says.

Guru Focus has an intrinsic value of around $147 for Chevron, while its current price is $167. Yes, the major integrated oil / energy companies are trying to squeeze even more earnings out of the current conditions. Oil is going to crash if you just look at rig count trends. Oil prices likely will drop like a rock as you would expect for speculative and volatile assets (housing, tech stocks, etc.). And I agree with the previous comment about work from home (WFH) causing less demand.
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TheSameAD says

And I agree with the previous comment about work from home (WFH) causing less demand.
.

Looking at the amount of vehicles on the roads right now and summer driving just about to get rolling with Memorial Day weekend demand is not off that much.

From the Dallas Fed - Don’t Look to Oil Companies to Lower High Retail Gasoline Prices

The rise of U.S. retail gasoline prices in March 2022 has triggered a debate about whether U.S. oil companies are doing enough to rein in high gasoline prices and whether these companies should be held accountable for not increasing the production of crude oil.

We take a closer look at the premises underlying this debate. We show that, even though the price of oil makes up over half of the retail price of gasoline, oil companies play an extremely limited role in how retail gasoline prices are set.

While U.S. retail gasoline prices in many regions have remained stubbornly high since March, this situation reflects frictions in the retail gasoline market rather than the supply of oil or the price of oil.

We discuss why, in many regions, pump prices have not fallen as quickly as oil prices have recently and explain why this asymmetry need not be an indication of price gouging.

Finally, we examine the obstacles to substantially increasing U.S. oil production. We make the case that even under the most favorable circumstances, higher production growth is unlikely to materially lower global oil prices—and, thus, U.S. retail gasoline prices—in the foreseeable future.

Lots more stuff here: https://www.dallasfed.org/research/economics/2022/0510

Once again - it does not make any difference what political party is in the White House or who controls congress - the oil companies have everyone in their back pockets and play a very long game plus they do not have to worry about getting re-elected in 2,4 or 6 years.

They got it, you need it - deal with it.

ad says

The price of gasoline is the same now as it was in June 2008 yet a barrel of oil is a lot less in price compared to 2008 :-/

Avg price of gas: $4.30 a gallon
Price of barrel of oil: $106

Back in June 2008:
Avg price of gas: $4.25
Price of barrel of oil: $185

That $185 is inflation-adjusted to 2022 dollars, which aren't worth much! However, the $4.25/gallon price is not; it should probably be $5. That still indicates an oil/gasoline price discrepancy, but it's somewhat smaller than now.

One thing to remember is that many states have been adding extra taxes to gasoline. So maybe the current $4.30 would really only be $4 if state taxes were rolled back to 2008 levels.

SunnyvaleCA says

if state taxes were rolled back to 2008 levels.

And soon thereafter the public will be outraged over the condition of their roads, highways etc. when tax revenues for such things disappear.

Something to consider - the oil companies got you exactly where they want you to be and this is both "coming" and "going".

They are going to get you on gas and diesel prices, jet fuel prices etc. and if you think you are going to do an end run around them with an EV, remember your how much of your electricity is produced using natural gas which is even easier to manipulate than fuel prices so don't look for electrical rates to go down either .

In the words of George Carlin - they got you by the balls....

Don't forget to send a nice thank you to your elected officials - both parties share equal billing/blame/responsibility for letting things get to this point.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Even at $20 per gallon, a super cheap bargain. At $20 per gallon, it's a dollar per mile in a modest 20 mpg vehicle. A dollar a mile to haul a load of groceries, chauffeur a minivan load of kids to school or sports practice; take seniors to their appointments. Even a bargain at $20 per gallon.

No it isn't.

HunterTits says

No it isn't.

Say that after you had to walk to do your errands.

$20 gasoline would effectively kill large cities. I can't remember exactly where I came across the article (probably hacker news), but the gist was that cities can only grow as large as it takes to traverse them within a given amount of time. Absent automobiles, and without massive public infrastructure like trollies, buses, and light rail, the cities must shrink. It could be enough to undo the global urbanization trend.

DooDahMan says

Looking at the amount of vehicles on the roads right now and summer driving just about to get rolling with Memorial Day weekend demand is not off that much.

Have to look at demand and consumption for gasoline now compared to same time in 2017 to 2021.

.
from energy slideshow at https://www.dallasfed.org/research/energy
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TheSameAD says

It is true.

Learn some fucking economics. $1/mile transportation fuel costs are NOT cheap. NOT a bargain. Esp when they were just 50 cents or so a few years ago.

This raises the prices for almost everything.

DooDahMan says

And soon thereafter the public will be outraged over the condition of their roads, highways etc. when tax revenues for such things disappear.

I see that it is Ignorance Celebration Day on PatNet.

The FUCKING gas taxes did not go to road repair. Congress and the State legislatures RAIDED those revenues for decades. Had they not, we'd have enough money in those funds to pay for entire replacement of the interstate highways 3 - 4 times over.

Instead, we get ever increasing gas taxes and ever increasing pot holes.

HunterTits says

Learn some fucking economics. $1/mile transportation fuel costs are NOT cheap. NOT a bargain. Esp when they were just 50 cents or so a few years ago.

Your white liberal shithole (i.e., within an AntiFa riot parade distance of Berkeley and where you live) charges that much for gas, boy.

Live with it or move the fuck out of your state and bring your conservative vote to a purple state like Nevada or a red state like Mississippi. I just paid $4.07 a gallon for gas in South Walton Florida, boy.

And I see you paid $6.19 a gallon mostly due to a lot higher taxes. But I agree that gas prices are very high and the energy companies are trying to squeeze as much profit they can in anticipation for gas prices crashing (i.e., check Permian rig counts).

Roll Tide Roll.

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stereotomy says

$20 gasoline would effectively kill large cities. I can't remember exactly where I came across the article (probably hacker news), but the gist was that cities can only grow as large as it takes to traverse them within a given amount of time.

What did people do before they had automobiles with affordable liquid fuels? That's a quite recent phenomenon in the history of urban civilization.

B.A.C.A.H. says

What did people do before they had automobiles with affordable liquid fuels?

What they did, is they did without. That is, rural folks rarely left the farm or the hollar. City folks only went places they could walk to, and any travel between cities was done by rail.

HeadSet says

What they did, is they did without. That is, rural folks rarely left the farm or the hollar. City folks only went places they could walk to, and any travel between cities was done by rail.

Yes.

Suburban Sprawl is a recent phenomenon enabled by cheap gasoline. Even one dollar per mile, is cheap. (Sorry, bubbas). Whether it's due to taxes, shortages, or whatever, we will pay it. Like all the over-mortgaged folks who paid the gasoline high prices in 2008, if we must choose between traveling to work, chauffeuring kids or doing some necessary errands, we will pay it before we pay our mortgages (or rent) or pay off other debts.

We will blame everyone except ourselves for the choices we made to build our lives around super-cheap energy. We will blame Democrats. We will blame Republicans. We will blame oil companies. We will blame Sacramento. We will blame Putin and the Arabs and the Israelis and the Environmentalists. We will blame them all, maybe we will even kill for access to petrol, like Hitler invading Russia and Tojo seizing oil fields in the Pacific. We will bitch and moan and complain and blame everyone except ourselves for the choices we make, choices that have boxed us in to paying whatever it may cost, maybe even a dollar a mile.

stereotomy says

$20 gasoline would effectively kill large cities. I can't remember exactly where I came across the article (probably hacker news), but the gist was that cities can only grow as large as it takes to traverse them within a given amount of time. Absent automobiles, and without massive public infrastructure like trollies, buses, and light rail, the cities must shrink. It could be enough to undo the global urbanization trend.

Seems to me that large cities would be the eventual beneficiary of very high gasoline prices. The largest cities in the world are in China and India, two places where only a small percentage of people have personal automobiles. High fuel costs will push almost everyone to abandon their cars, especially in large cities. Without cars, residents will be more open to public transportation, especially rail transportation. With everyone using public transportation, those modes of travel will be safer and better — unlike many systems in the US where only the poor are forced onto public transportation. So: fewer cars -> better public transportation -> still fewer cars -> even better public transportation. That positive feedback loop could rapidly transform US cities and make them more livable and more dense than ever.

High fuel prices are more likely to hurt suburban and urban areas, which are mostly made livable by use of person automobiles. That will further push people into cities, where they don't need to travel long distances and there is public transportation.

HunterTits says

DooDahMan says

And soon thereafter the public will be outraged over the condition of their roads, highways etc. when tax revenues for such things disappear.

I see that it is Ignorance Celebration Day on PatNet.

The FUCKING gas taxes did not go to road repair. Congress and the State legislatures RAIDED those revenues for decades. Had they not, we'd have enough money in those funds to pay for entire replacement of the interstate highways 3 - 4 times over.

Instead, we get ever increasing gas taxes and ever increasing pot holes.

Not only that, but DooDah was commenting on my post about increased taxes affecting the accuracy of comparisons between price of gasoline in 2008 verses 2022 verses the price of oil at those times. Stating the use of the tax revenue or effect of taxes on the public has nothing to do with my point.

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https://www.gasbuddy.com/gaspricemap

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SunnyvaleCA says

ot only that, but DooDah was commenting on my post

OMFG ! Bad bad Doo-Dah Man - dare to make comment - must have exorcism to eliminate evil commenter

B.A.C.A.H. says

What did people do before they had automobiles with affordable liquid fuels? That's a quite recent phenomenon in the history of urban civilization.

They had horses pulling buggies, and shittys were stinking hellholes. It was only 110 years ago.

This is a complicated time because it's difficult to think we will revert to the mean. If we really revert to the mean, that is the death of something like 7 billion people. I can understand the reversion to the mean in multiple cases, but I'm too human to imagine this particular mean. I can't help but believe this is an unprecedented time and this time "it's different".

B.A.C.A.H. says

(Sorry, bubbas).

You don't understand how food works.

You can shit all you like on rural people, but they make all your food.

I knew farmers that made a million dollars one year, and lost 3 million in the same year. They are slaves to the banks.

I kind of want to see a starvation event so you can see your own ignorance. There's no lack of food, there's a lack of money. Without taxation of land, this would not be a problem.

richwicks says

I kind of want to see a starvation event so you can see your own ignorance.

Yes, yes, I know. Farmers and diesel. I come from a farming family.

Which part of my post was ignorance?

B.A.C.A.H. says

Which part of my post was ignorance?

I thought, apparently incorrectly, that you didn't realize how food is produced.

I have ZERO contempt of "country bumpkins", I hate a lot of contempt for the "top of society".

I know who the useless eaters are of our society, they are the assholes that declare there are useless eaters. These stupid, over-educated, twats serve no purpose. If we wiped out the entire political class, all the business class, every engineer, scientist, doctor, and military twat, honestly the survivors - the people we depend upon, would probably be better off. I can see the parasites now.

I make toys. Me enginerd. Toys. Nothing I make you need.

SunnyvaleCA says

With everyone using public transportation, those modes of travel will be safer and better — unlike many systems in the US where only the poor are forced onto public transportation.

There is where I think you are wrong. It will be worse, because the same idiots will still be running those agencies. Also, public transit and suburds built for autos don't work well together.

An overhaul would be needed. Something like jitneys serving the tertiary roads like we had when my parents grew up and is the case in Asia today. The buses would serve the main roads. Eventually something like PRT may be adopted.