patrick.net

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

It's not to do with nationality, it has to do with ethnicity.

When Stalin did the Holodomor he murdered millions of Ukrainians. He then shipped in Russians to take over the farmland of the dead Ukrainians, the Kulaks, that refused to give up their land to the state under communist collectivization. Stalin was killing Russians as well, who also refused to abandon their land in the name of collectivization.

That's the rift. Eastern Ukraine has a large Russian ETHNIC minority, who speak and read Russian but not Ukrainian, despite the languages being quite similar and they are mostly in Eastern Ukraine. They aren't Russian citizens, but they are basically, Russian, not Ukrainian.

Those two groups have been at war since Viktor Yanukovych was ousted from power. The ethnic Russians, by and large, did not accept the coup, and the ethnic Ukrainians, by and large, did. They went to civil war right after the US led coup d'état. Hostilities started almost immediately after the coup.

Now you can argue that "Russian" and "Ukrainian" really isn't an "ethnicity", but that's how they see it. They're wrong of course, but, telling them that won't make them go "aha, we have common interests! We ought to work together against this criminal government and our criminal oligarchs!"

Putin was placed under tremendous pressure to intervene on behalf of the Russian ethnic minority in the East, and well, the East has all the factories and farmland, as well. The factories are probably destroyed at this point, but the farmland is still there. Ukraine was once known as "the breadbasket of the USSR".

If you look into the history of any event, or the causes of any war, there's no good sides. I can't defend what Stalin did, he was a mass murderer. I can't defend what the US did, they caused this war. I can't defend the Ukrainian people for accepting a US coup. They are all wrong. People want to have a good guy and a bad guy in every conflict, well, that's a story book. There are no good guys in this and it annoys me to no end that people think there are. Fuck Zelenskyy, he's a traitor. He's an illegitimate puppet of the United States that will gladly get every single Ukrainian killed, because the US told him to do that. Fuck the US for telling Zelenskyy do this. Fuck Russia for dragging this out, but I see the strategic advantage of doing it.

There's no morality in this situation, that's a human abstraction, and the people who start war, are subhuman.

People won't see the nuance in situations, it's annoying. I hope this war ends quickly, but I expect this war to go on for at least 6 more months - if Europe does well during the winter, I expect 18 more months. Russia knows they really aren't at war with Ukraine, they're at war with the United States, and they are going to punish their stupid European quizzling allies. This is World War III but I kind of doubt it will involve nukes.

At the end of this, I expect the United States and Europe to end up isolated. We have a bunch of geezer dying gassbag Neocon FUCKS running this nation, and they want to go out in some sort of blaze of glory, they don't care about the future, they're practically dead themselves.

richwicks says

Eastern Ukraine has a large Russian ETHNIC minority, who speak and read Russian but not Ukrainian, despite the languages being quite similar and they are mostly in Eastern Ukraine. They aren't Russian citizens, but they are basically, Russian, not Ukrainian.

But you did not have a lot of volunteers from Eastern Ukraine to fight for Russia against the Ukraine government. And it did not help that Russia invaded eastern Ukrainian areas or cities like Kharkiv.

I do not think its conservatives or neocons. Its Woke Left Wing or globalist marxists in the USA national security complex who hate Russia because its white, Christian, and publicly and supposedly turned its back on socialism. Its the E R I C - A N T H O N Y - C I A R A M E L L A 's in the bureaucracy and at the higher ranks of the national security complex.

Maybe Biden just wants to weaken Putin enough so as to be able to declare a victory for the Democrat party. He may not totally agree with the national security advisers.

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cisTits says

$66 Billion In, It’s Clear The Realists Were Right About Ukraine

Why were the realist Republicans called Putinists and fascists when they argued for the same thing the Biden administration is doing?

https://thefederalist.com/2022/11/10/66-billion-in-its-clear-the-realists-were-right-about-ukraine/

Because the democrat party owns the media.

cisTits says

$66 Billion

.... out of $300+ Billion of Ruscist assets already arrested.

cisTits says

Poles are engineered from the womb to hate Russia and Germany and to harness that hatred all their lives. It’s Poland’s Social-Governmental Molotov-Ribbentrop pact with no domestic deserters or dissenters allowed.

I also got that strong impression when visiting my grandmother's town in Poland. They really don't like their neighbors to the east or the west. There are good historical reasons for that, but at some point you have to try to get along.

The Poles do love France though. Catholic country, and one of the best loved French queens was a Polish princess.

Patrick says

but at some point you have to try to get along.

lets get along also with people who pushed vaxx...? Similar logic.

Wife just got an invite to go to France. She's relatively naive if I'm being honest to world matters. Told her I'm not sure it's the best time to be going to Europe right now.

Her choice. Can't control it. I know Western Europe isn't involved outside of weapons, I just don't think it's a good time to go to Europe for leisure. At some point this spills over into Western Europe. I don't really see a way around it. That part of the world has never been able to play in the same sandbox for 100 years straight. They're due for a war. Hell the fact it has gone this long without a major war is amazing.

WookieMan says

Wife just got an invite to go to France. She's relatively naive if I'm being honest to world matters. Told her I'm not sure it's the best time to be going to Europe right now.

Her choice. Can't control it. I know Western Europe isn't involved outside of weapons, I just don't think it's a good time to go to Europe for leisure. At some point this spills over into Western Europe. I don't really see a way around it. That part of the world has never been able to play in the same sandbox for 100 years straight. They're due for a war. Hell the fact it has gone this long without a major war is amazing.

Anything west of Poland is safe from Ukraine war spillover (other than energy prices), so I would not worry about that at all.

Having said that, hope you enjoy diversity because you'll have a lot of that in French cites. Marseilles and Paris have been diversified to the point of no return. Lyon is getting there.

Bd6r says

Anything west of Poland is safe from Ukraine war spillover (other than energy prices), so I would not worry about that at all.

Energy prices is the main concern. Politicians if smart (I know, I know...) will throttle hotel and tourist destinations heat and electric first if they want to keep constituents happy.

It's also France. I've never met a French person I DIDN'T want to punch. They're more ridiculous than Americans with their ego. Might be better for her traveling with another female. As a dude I'd want to punch every mother fucker I see over there, including the women.

WookieMan says

I've never met a French person I DIDN'T want to punch.

+100500

Womyn for some reason think of France as this idyllic, romantic place which was prob true until 1960's. I cured my wife from it by a three-day visit to Paris.
WookieMan says

will throttle hotel and tourist destinations heat and electric first if they want to keep constituents happy

nope, politicians will be paid off by businesses that benefit from tourism and citizens will freeze while you will not

BUT UKRAINE WILL STOP EXISTING AS A COUNTRY IN 2 WEEKS! RUSSIA HAS NOT YET STARTED! WAIT UNTIL THEY MOBILIZE AND THEN UKRONAZIS ARE DEAD!

RWSGFY says

cisTits says

Ukraine will stop existing period if we simply stop sending money to prop up its government.

The US is entirely bankrolling Kyiv right now. Thus it is a Nazified bureau of the DoD, not a sovereign nation.

You said in February that Ukraine will be defeated in days and will stop existing as a country in weeks. How did it work out?

cisTits says

Did I? Show me where I said that.

https://patrick.net/post/1322462/2019-02-18-political-humor-thread?start=14502#comment-1821744

In ~96 hours, physical Ukraine will fall. Within a week, the Ukranian government will capitulate/become captured.

Shows your knowledge and predictive abilities with respect to that part of the world.

We also could remember talk about how mobilization will help Russians, and similar hits.

The negotiations will fail, the Russians are waiting for the ground to freeze solid, and they will stomp Ukraine. Withdrawing back across the maginot line of the Dnepier River is supposed to have been a negotiating sop proffered by the Russians. If that mess stalls, it's probably on to Odessa, which is probably the least they will harvest from Ukraine, and onwards and upwards. Ukraine is the sacrificial lamb in this Globalist/NATO crossfire.

Bd6r says

Patrick says

but at some point you have to try to get along.

lets get along also with people who pushed vaxx...? Similar logic.

@Bd6r

Similar but not the same.

I think eventually we will have to get along with the majority of people who pushed the vaxx, but that doesn't mean we should ever let them forget it. They can redeem themselves by acknowledging that they were no better than Nazi collaborators and by really working to punish those who mandated the vaxx.

Everyone who abused his or her authority to mandate a dangerous and ineffective experimental drug which profited Pfizer and the WEF should be hanged.

Similarly, a lot of Germans are sorry that Germany invaded Poland. The Germans who executed masses of Poles were hopefully hanged after the Nuremberg Trials, exactly as those who mandated the vaxx should be hanged.

I don't know that the Russians ever apologized for their domination of Poland, but I don't think the Russians massacred large numbers of Poles like the Germans did.

Patrick says

I don't know about whole camps being run by Jews, but there were Jewish prisoners working for the Nazis, operating under the hopes of saving their own skins by betraying their co-religionists. Mostly, that did not work out for them, and it seems like karma.

Kapos were the last to go in the ovens.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapo

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Patrick says

I don't think the Russians massacred large numbers of Poles like the Germans did.

Define "large numbers".
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/soviets-admit-to-katyn-massacre

The Soviet government officially accepts blame for the Katyn Massacre of World War II, when nearly 5,000 Polish military officers were murdered and buried in mass graves in the Katyn Forest. The admission was part of Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev’s promise to be more forthcoming and candid concerning Soviet history.

From article above FP piece:

small-diameter bombs

Oh look, a new euphemism I assume. For Cluster Bombs

Our buddy Benjamin Fulford:
"The real figures of the war in Ukraine, established by Mossad and published by Hürseda Haber [4 ] show the balance of power is 8 to 1 in favor of Russia. There are 18,480 dead on the Russian side, against 157,000 on the Ukrainian side."
https://www.voltairenet.org/article218844.html#nb4

Ceffer says

Our buddy Benjamin Fulford:
"The real figures of the war in Ukraine, established by Mossad and published by Hürseda Haber [4 ] show the balance of power is 8 to 1 in favor of Russia. There are 18,480 dead on the Russian side, against 157,000 on the Ukrainian side."
https://www.voltairenet.org/article218844.html#nb4

Damn, all this "8 to 1 balance" and nothing to show for it on the map. It's so convenient that unlike claims of gains on the ground which can be easily verified one can pull bodycounts out of the ass all day every day...



PS. BTW, would the Pukin CCCP Commie cum gurglers please update the map in the OP to something more resembling the situation on the ground?

LOL! Yes, Russians are surrendering in droves to the Ukrainian Ubermenschen Babushkas and press ganged teens and elderly. My reality blinders are working again.

RWSGFY says

PS. BTW, would the Pukin CCCP Commie cum gurglers

The CCCP dissolved on December 26, 1991. When you keep calling them the CCCP and "Commies", it just makes you look stupid for 2 reasons.

1) You know that it's not the CCCP and they aren't Communists
2) It's obvious emotional propaganda. It's just a dumb smear, like calling anybody that the establishment in the US opposes "white nationalists", even if it's Larry Elder.

Exactly @richwicks
I’ve been telling anyone who will listen that the Chinese aren’t communists and haven’t been for 30 years. Their system of government is classic fascism. They got totalitarian government, no human rights, no Justice in their Justice system, and a capitalism that works with major control from the government. In fact every chinese corporation is half owned by the government making it more of a fasciat empire than Germany managed.

What’s weird is how China swapped governments, got rich and influential, and nobody noticed!

Shaman says

Exactly richwicks
I’ve been telling anyone who will listen that the Chinese aren’t communists and haven’t been for 30 years. Their system of government is classic fascism. They got totalitarian government, no human rights, no Justice in their Justice system, and a capitalism that works with major control from the government. In fact every chinese corporation is half owned by the government making it more of a fasciat empire than Germany managed.

Sounds like the United States' system..

Shaman says

What’s weird is how China swapped governments, got rich and influential, and nobody noticed!

People noticed, they didn't care.

RWSGFY is just being dishonest, and it's annoying. It's just annoying to have people repeat obvious lies. It's no different than being treated like a child "no, there really IS a Santa Claus". I'm too old and cynical to want to hear this sort of stupidity anymore. "The Communist Ruskies are going to get us!!!" or "Russia hacked our election" or "Trump is a Putin Puppet". Nobody is actually this stupid, and it's annoying people pretend to be this stupid.

They pretend to be this stupid, because their in group pretends to be this stupid, and they think there's some people in their out group who actually ARE that stupid.

Shaman says

I’ve been telling anyone who will listen that the Chinese aren’t communists and haven’t been for 30 years. Their system of government is classic fascism. They got totalitarian government, no human rights, no Justice in their Justice system, and a capitalism that works with major control from the government. In fact every chinese corporation is half owned by the government making it more of a fasciat empire than Germany managed.

China is what the WEF wants to make the world. Corporate Socialism, or Fascism, or the NWO or whatever you wish to call it.

cisTits says

Wagner Group on its last legs?

https://youtu.be/LYktbFKITck

Nah, not if it's youtube. Youtube promotes propaganda. Let's look at @ZeihanonGeopolitics OLD statements on the subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slKJtyu3Z4w

Or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbwLaKRnI8A

In THAT one he actually claimed that mRNA has been used for over 30 years, that's total bullshit. It's been used in experimental settings for people at end of life, and lab animals, and that's it. The mRNA jabs are the first widespread human use of the technology, and they are all experimental and they don't work.

He's a propagandist. Just check a person's history, and see if they are full of shit or not.

Once you get into the habit of doing this, you learn not to pollute your mind. I'm telling you that EVERYBODY is susceptible to propaganda, including me. The way I filter is somebody recommends an "authority" to listen to, and I listen to what they said 2 to 4 years ago. If they carry water for the establishment, which was TOTALLY wrong, they're fucking full of shit.

This has eliminated EVERYBODY on television for me, and NEARLY everybody in print media.

This guy is selling a newsletter. He's a grifter. Total fucking sellout liar. He's a Rachael Maddow wannabe. Just, check their history.

cisTits says

Where is the collapse of Russia you or the other Nazi Ukey Fluffers had promised us? Putin being overthrown?

No, Putin died of cancer.

Don't you remember? Remember that?? Our propaganda said he "definitely had cancer" even:

https://nypost.com/2022/06/02/us-intelligence-analysts-believe-vladimir-putin-is-sick-with-cancer-report/

They report this as fact, everything is propaganda. SOMETIMES they will tell you the truth, but it's not worth your time to wade to the sewage to find something worth keeping, and if you do, you need to have a good memory on what they claimed and you remember they've lied to you before. There's no credibility of ANYTHING in corporate news. All of them lie more often than they tell you the truth. They are lying too, they never retract their stories, they never explain how they "made a mistake".

I have to admit, I kind of enjoy the demented 'sports fan' trash talk over Ukraine. However, when one gets past all the posturing and bullshit, one does not have to be a Russian 'fanboy' to see that Russia is gonna win this one. Since that also means the expiration of the criminal enterprises feeding the criminal elements of the West and EU, I can't count that as a bad thing. All that fiat money crap is the source of our current domestic miseries.

Ceffer says

Since that also means the expiration of the criminal enterprises feeding the criminal elements of the West and EU,

NOOOOOooooo.

I wish this was true. The US is still in Afghanistan I think, probably using mercenaries, it's still bombing Syria, Yemen and Somalia. It's still in Iraq.

They just don't bother to tell us about the wars anymore.

Shaman says

What’s weird is how China swapped governments, got rich and influential, and nobody noticed!

"Communist state" and "Fascist state" are one and the same! It's not just mainland China embraced a Fascist state after the "communist revolution": even the USSR became in practice a Fascist state within a few months after the original "communist revolution success" when their experiment in a cashless/moneyless society failed. The Stalin regime was a classic Fascist state (after Trotsky and his band of advocates for exporting revolution were expelled). Even Germany had communist revolution after WWI, before Fascists came to power. Both "Communism" and "Fascism" are bankster frauds designed to kill account holders. The "Communism" future-fake has more appeal to the dumb masses because it taps into their childhood experience of parents selflessly providing for the children; when social experiment along that line fails (and it is guaranteed to fail), the bankster media flip the script get rid of their "left-leaning" agents and promote "fascist" agents (then flip the script again on those agents later), getting rid of bank account holders at every turn.

"What happened to Ukrainians freezing to deaths"? Temperature in Kiev/Kyiv hovers in 30'sF and 20'sF this week (with only a brief spike up to 43F and another spike down to 12F). Due to urban heat sink effect, the surrounding area outside the city is likely 5-10 degrees-F colder. What do you think is happening to people living in that low temperature without electricity? Most thermostat-controlled household gas heaters need electricity to run, that's assuming they have gas, which is not a given if there is no electricity to run the fans pushing gas in the gas pipeline. You can find out first-hand by climbing into your fridge and close the door (but please leave a breathing pipe in the door before closing the door). A household working fridge's chill/cool (but not freezer) section is supposed to maintain temperature below 40F but above 32F (freezer section is supposed to be below 20F). Try stay in there for 48hrs, and see if you can survive. If you die in that experiment and no legacy news organization has reported your death, then at that point will you have died?

Ukranians (and Baltics, as well as Poles and Romanians) have had 30 years of hard labor making exports (apparently a lot of switch gears for carmakers in the case of Ukraine). Much of the money earned from those exports have been sitting in banks. Demographics in all those countries have turned to near-zero to negative population growth in recent years. So the Ponzi Scheme gig is up. Tens of thousands, if not millions, of Ukrainians are set up to be killed so the banks don't have to pay back the deposits (when the Ukrainian state disappears, obviously all the future-fake retirement promises go away along with it, so the Ukrainian state won't have to withdraw money from the banks).

The average Ukie had no savings in the banks. They lived super simple lives.

https://tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/gdp-per-capita

Additionally, saving money in a Ukie bank was stupid given the typical inflation rate to interest rate paid on savings.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/296164/ukraine-inflation-rate/

The typical Ukie has nothing to fight for. Zelenski was not and is not popular in his own country.

The average Ukie was owed a social safety net and retirement by their future-faking government/cronies before the war, after the latter having taken the fruits of the average Ukie's labor for 30 years! The war gave a convenient excuse for the government/cronies to break the promises. Additionally, the banks also get a chances to kill many of the hired cronies and agents. Obviously, the cronies and Ukie banks put their money in western banks. Local Ukie currency is not real money but merely a script for the plantation.

The same thing with Russia (and China, Saudi Arabia, etc.). Haven't you noticed many Ukie and Russian oligarchs are mysteriously dying? as their accounts are harvested (as are their subordinates). Putin's mistress and their kids are living in Switzerland. If they didn't want Putin to invade Ukraine, wouldn't they have had far simpler and more direct solutions?

Misc says

The typical Ukie has nothing to fight for. Zelenski was not and is not popular in his own country.

That's not true, Zelenskyy was ONCE quite popular, since he ran on implementing the Minsk Accords and ending the civil war with East Ukraine.

Of course, he lied. Bush was once popular, Obama was once popular. I don't think Biden ever was.

Reality says

Try stay in there for 48hrs, and see if you can survive. If you die in that experiment and no legacy news organization has reported your death, then at that point will you have died?

With modern gear it's generally impossible to die in cold climates. That might be foreign in CA's Mediterranean type climate, but you simply don't freeze to death unless you're a complete moron.

I voluntarily went snowboarding in Big Sky, MT. Peak temp at 11k' was -5ºF and 40mph sustained winds. I had altitude issues and had to sit for 10 minutes getting blasted. Never once did I feel cold. Pure raw elements. Now give me even a half assed structure I could have been fine for months in the same scenario.

What I'm getting at is Ukrainians AND Russians know it's going to be cold. People that don't live in a cold climate 4-6 months of the year simply have no clue. I wear flip flops and shorts here in IL when it's 20ºF. Went to Disney World when it got down to 25ºF in January in 2017 I believe. Everyone was freaked out. They couldn't start diesel engines. It was embarrassing really.

Germany and Western Europe won't freeze either. They'll turn down the thermostat. The hyperbolic nature of the media is beyond reasoning. These people live in cold climates at times. Trust me, they have gear.

10min exposure in the freezer section (about 0 degrees-F) of a large refrigerator (like during retrieving meat from a meat locker) is not nearly as severe as 48+ hours of exposure in the fridge section. Are you not aware that death due to cold and/or heart attacks (during snow shoveling) shoot up dramatically during winter even in the snowbelt of the US? I personally go skiing almost every year. However, that doesn't mean a sustained electricity outage in the winter in my snow belt city would be enjoyed by millions of elderly as if it were a ski vacation (besides, how many people spend overnight at a ski lodge that has no electricity or hot tub? practically zero!) When you are on the ski slopes, how many 60+yo do you see? Do you think it is right for a government to kill people after they turn 60? like harvesting farm animals? That's what the banksters and governments under WEF are doing because they have spent people's retirement money! The population over 60 are the ones who have accumulated some resources (usually in the form of claims, whether it be bank savings, mutual funds, brokerage account, or social security account) for their own retirement.

I got my tongue stuck on my car in the Sierra once.

A friend in Santa Cruz spent a year in the military in Antarctica in the day. He talks about what a cluster fuck many of the men were. He said half spent the whole bunkered time drunk and he stayed out of their drinking mess hall.

He said one chronically drunk guy that he had to do stuff with almost killed him twice. Once, the guy ran a fork lift through the wall of the barracks right into my friend's bunk but he jumped away. Another, he was stuck with him in a vehicle where the guy insisted on going the wrong direction in a whiteout. My friend engaged a clever way to run across various pipes and physical objects to guard rail a way back or they would have died in the storm.

Reality says

Are you not aware that death due to cold and/or heart attacks (during snow shoveling) shoot up dramatically during winter even in the snowbelt of the US?

Fully aware. That's snow shoveling... kind of implied for the task. Not sure the point?

I'm not sure you're getting my point and maybe I have top notch gear. I've NEVER felt cold outdoors in the winter. I've literally taken off layers in cold temps. Russians and Ukrainians most certainly have cold weather gear where they could sleep on the ground if needed. Just fly fished the dam by Ennis, MT all day. In the water. 2' of snow around us. Cold weather is really no biggie.

Fact is you need to get sub 0º for it to matter. Western Europe really doesn't get there. Where it does they have the layers and gear. Siberia, northern Canada and the poles are a different story, but almost all cold weather places are manageable without electric or heat. Don't be an idiot when you know your surroundings and you'll be fine.

If you freeze to death and are elderly that's kind of on your offspring. And if you didn't have any, you likely have no friends. Not a huge loss to be honest. No one wanted you anyway. There's a reason you died alone...