patrick.net

Patrick says

Others can argue with you, but if you refuse to admit 2 + 2 = 4, there's not much point.

there's not much point.

But It's fun.

Do you suppose he is willfully ignorant, propagandized, or straight up lying?

Patrick says

I think you've thoroughly discredited yourself as an argument partner by:

OK, I'll respond.
Patrick says

claiming that being fired for refusing the death jab is not being forced to take it

To be clear, I've said I dont support mandates, and I dont think storm troopers were forcing people to get them against their will, separate from as a condition of entry to certain places. I Do think it is within the discretion of school officials and employers to set conditions of entry. Though most schools and employers I encountered all had some sort of opt out. I Do think that if a shool sets a vax requirement and you are anti vax, you will have to burdent the inconvenience of home school or finding another school/job, etc.

Patrick says

claiming that Trump was going to install himself as "emperor" with less than zero evidence, while Trump was telling people to be peaceful (see his Tweet)

Patrick says

buying into the see-through lie that unarmed people being led into the Capitol by Ray Epps is somehow the crime of the century

These two are the same topic... Yes, I think Trump wanted to be president again even though he was not elected. He used legal challenges unsuccessfully, and promoted lies and conspiracy theories to advance this cause. I do not have any evidence what he was thinking during the riot, but I believe part of him hoped for a successful intervention which would make him president again, which is why he was slow to act to get people to stop.

Patrick says

claiming that hundreds of violent BLM riots are somehow unimportant

I did not say this. and I dont think it. Actually I think the BLM riots were very disruptive and destructive. Beyond the damage, they also lead to bad policy decisions on police force funding and have (in my town) impaired police recruiting which is a problem. What I HAVE said is that it is hypocritical to criticize only violent behavior on the left, and characterize the Jan 6 riot as chummy friendly folks shaking hands with the police.
Patrick says

Others can argue with you,

Well, I guess this is the end of the road for our discussion then. I will remind you that it was YOU who posted the classified add for someone who would come here and debate with you. I have done it in good faith. I cant help it if you dont want to hear what I say.

Im sad for what this site has become, nothing more than an echo chamber for like minded people who wont even discuss with people who have different opinions.

DeficitHawk says

Im sad for what this site has become, nothing more than an echo chamber for like minded people who wont even discuss with people who have different opinions.

This is where you're not paying attention dude. Everyone here has gotten after each other in some way, shape or form at some point. This place is far from an echo chamber. This isn't some right wing echo chamber you're making it out to be. Plenty of us here have bashed Trump. I'm still pissed about how he handled Covid. He is the guy that rushed the vaccine. Didn't fire Fauci who has a track record of fuck ups.

There is no nuance with the left. They hear one thing they don't agree with and everything else said by that person is wrong or bad. There are plenty of discussions occurring on Patnet where there's major disagreement. Ukraine v Russia. Covid. Hell I get in disagreements with BACAH over travel. Abortion. Tons of topics. This is one of the more civil forums I've been a part of. And it's definitely not an echo chamber.

Dan was more fun and less disingenuous.

Onvacation says

Dan was more fun and less disingenuous.

Dan was a writer, but like Iwog got too much into the semantics of arguing. Strawman this or that. Stop arguing about the argument or discussion. Make your point. When you start arguing about the discussion, the discussion is over. You've lost.

DeficitHawk says

To be clear, I've said I dont support mandates, and I dont think storm troopers were forcing people to get them against their will, separate from as a condition of entry to certain places.

Like being able to go to work..

But nobody was forced...

DeficitHawk says

She was trying to climb through a barricaded door onto the other side which was defended by armed officers, through a window broken by the crowds, I've seen that video. sad she died, but what the hell was she thinking? What the hell were any of them thinking?

ask this, how many left wing protesters were met by armed guards and shot at during Kavana scotus trial? they too took over quite a few times, nothing happened there to them.

our government treats people very different based on their political views.

FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says

DeficitHawk says

She was trying to climb through a barricaded door onto the other side which was defended by armed officers, through a window broken by the crowds, I've seen that video. sad she died, but what the hell was she thinking? What the hell were any of them thinking?

ask this, how many left wing protesters were met by armed guards and shot at during Kavana scotus trial? they too took over quite a few times, nothing happened there to them.

our government treats people very different based on their political views.

Libshits are oblivious to their own hypocrisy, when it favors them. Good luck trying to get an answer.

cisTits says

Why so you all bother with this guy? He's been caught red handed dishing out total bullshit and then caught lying to cover it up.

Helps you think though doesn't it?

If you cannot be consistent in your thinking, you must be wrong in someway. If they cannot be consistent in their thinking, but continue, they are wrong, and refuse to admit it.

Patrick says

DeficitHawk I think you've thoroughly discredited yourself as an argument partner by:

- claiming that being fired for refusing the death jab is not being forced to take it
- claiming that Trump was going to install himself as "emperor" with less than zero evidence, while Trump was telling people to be peaceful (see his Tweet)
- claiming that hundreds of violent BLM riots are somehow unimportant
- buying into the see-through lie that unarmed people being led into the Capitol by Ray Epps is somehow the crime of the century

Probably other stuff too, but you really ought to be embarrassed by directly contradicting reality over and over. Others can argue with you, but if you refuse to admit 2 + 2 = 4, there's not much point.

I have to agree on this. Props to @richwicks for providing actual legal documentary evidence that DH dismissed out of hand because "there was no final decision." This is appeal to authority at its most pathetic. DH failed (or more likely ignored and then tried to gaslight against) the raw evidence that any sane person would be led to conclude that it was a woke judge and jury that railroaded Chauvin.

DH is probably a psychologist who is using his interactions with PatNet as a case study in "White Nationalism/Racism," or some such drivel. What other sort of person would continually try to draw out other people, to get them to do his work for him? His "patience" is actually a passive-aggressive front to encourage increasingly vitriolic responses. I think he has been disappointed that we couldn't be bated into a rabid frenzy. Thanks @patrick for cultivating this little garden of anti-wokeness and letting good and reasonable people be who they are.

EDIT: I speculate that the deep state is contracting psychologists to get a bead on the simmering outrage amongst the "deplorables" to contribute to a possible threat assessment as to the extent of the righteous backlash that will occur once people wake up and the shit really hits the fan.

stereotomy says

EDIT: I speculate that the deep state is contracting psychologists to get a bead on the simmering outrage amongst the "deplorables" to contribute to a possible threat assessment as to the extent of the righteous backlash that will occur once people wake up and the shit really hits the fan.

You want to hear something ironic about applying this sort of "evolutionary" pressure?

It just purifies a group and corrupts the group doing it. I don't want white racists on my side, or any racist, for example. We'll win in time.

cisTits says

richwicks says

If you cannot be consistent in your thinking, you must be wrong in someway. If they cannot be consistent in their thinking, but continue, they are wrong, and refuse to admit it.

But I already knew about that. I live in Cali and have ro listen to that ALL the time. No 'debate on PatNet with a Libtard' needed.

Liberals are one thing, they aren't "libtards" - they are just naive people that are trying to do the right thing who trust people who use them. They're not bad people.

But there's libshits - those are assholes that have no actual principles. They are cattle, kind of like Neocons are. DeficitHawk, I believe, is a libshit.

Both parties have PLENTY of naive people in them. The 800 people in jail for "insurrection" were naive. They thought the government worked for them, and 20 years ago, most of them would have called me a "traitor" for pointing out that the intelligence agencies are corrupt through the core. They're learning a hard lesson now.

DeficitHawk says

IF you insist on wearing patnet conformity blinders, i can not help you. I showed you the pictures. I linked the report of 114 injured officers. If you do not think there was any violence, I just dont think you are being honest with yourself.

Do you think they were giving this guy a back massage? Is that why he is lying on the ground?

Lol give up already, there was no violence. Yeah looks like a back massage, or being pushed down when people push against barricades. Happens at most concerts. This is routine daily police work. Now being shot like the security guard in Oakland during the blm riots, now that is violence, murder actually. Like the killing of Ashli Babbit by that goon

cisTits says

Dude definely suffers from cognitive dissonance problems that I believe is what forces him to avoid seeing reality when it is shown directly to him.

EVERYBODY suffers from some level of cognitive dissonance.

I had a GREAT mentor as a junior engineer who told me "eliminate your cognitive dissonance" - that really worked well for my job, so I carried that on outside of my job. When I have two conflicting beliefs, I just go straight to the Internet and eliminate one of them. If BOTH beliefs are wrong, eventually I'll experience cognitive dissonance again after learning more, and eliminate that belief.

Do this over and over and over again, without being embarrassed you were wrong before, and eventually, you won't experience it very often.

For example, I thought Bible Beaters were wrong about forcing homosexuals underground and that it should be at least accepted under law AND that they were nuts that acceptance would lead to LGBT bullshit in elementary schools in 1995.

I was right that it shouldn't be forced to be underground, but I was also wrong that a minority of them wouldn't start promoting it in elementary schools. I was wrong about both things. I accept that - AND I don't think the Bible Beaters were right - it's not homosexuality itself that causes this or lack of religious values, it's just there's sociopaths in our society who happen to be homosexual.

Practicing homosexuality is similar to practicing bestiality. Using your body in ways it was not designed to be used. Additionally, it is so repulsive to the creator that He destroyed cities over it, and of course the STD’s that come with promiscuous sex, especially homosexual sex are rewards for those who live like that. The movie bohemian rhapsody chronicles some of the wreckage of living like that.

God loves sinners, but he hates their sin.

PeopleUnited says

Practicing homosexuality is similar to practicing bestiality. Using your body in ways it was not designed to be used. Additionally, it is so repulsive to the creator that He destroyed cities over it, and of course the STD’s that come with promiscuous sex, especially homosexual sex are rewards for those who live like that. The movie bohemian rhapsody chronicles some of the wreckage of living like that.

God loves sinners, but he hates their sin.

I don't share your religion.

However, I don't wish to argue with you, NOR change your opinion. I look at this from an entirely mechanical point of view. J. Edgar Hoover was a homosexual, and because he was a fag, he was extensively blackmailed. That's part of the reason this country is so fucked up today, is that man, was controlled, by criminal syndicates, to hide the fact he was gay.

But now that it's acceptable, it's PEDOPHILES that are promoted to positions of power, like Joe Biden.

I view homosexuality as irrelevant to me. I don't care, or that's how I viewed it at one point. Irrelevant. The prohibition of it was purely religious, but maybe we should revisit it as also possibly psychologically damaging to the individual, but can it be changed?

I don't have enough information to make a judgement on it, and probably I never will.

Homosexuality is different than pedophilia though - they are FUNDAMENTALLY different. One has a victim for certain, and I think pedophiles, just kill them if they EVER act on their impulses. Harming a child, possibly condemning them to commit the same crime they experienced? It's not forgivable.

The homosexual is both a victim and a perp. Same as a drug addict.

PeopleUnited says

The homosexual is both a victim and a perp. Same as a drug addict.

Not always, I know that second hand.

I'm not homosexual, but I know a few. I've discussed this with them pretty intimately.

@Patrick is wrong - not ALL homosexuals are just victims, some are just homosexual.

I do think some of you folks are losing touch with reality. There is a reason Four officers who responded to U.S. Capitol attack have died by suicide.

EBGuy says

I do think some of you folks are losing touch with reality. There is a reason Four officers who responded to U.S. Capitol attack have died by suicide.

Losing touch with reality how?

Why did the officers "die by suicide"? Did they kill themselves out of guilt? Were they murdered? I don't know what you think.

I think that if there was an actual insurrection on January 6th, we'd have another government. There were like a million people there, and if they wanted to take over the capital, they could have, and murdered every one of those useless mother fuckers that call themselves "representatives".

EBGuy says

I do think some of you folks are losing touch with reality. There is a reason Four officers who responded to U.S. Capitol attack have died by suicide.

Sorry for their loss. Fact is suicide is not one event. These were likely troubled people from the word go as someone that's dealt with 2 suicides. Jan 6th likely had nothing to do with their decision to kill themselves. Attributing it to that event is laughable. Tread lightly with suicide talk. 1/6 had nothing to do with any suicides.

^^^^^^ This (Edit: at #710)

Why do you think "they" called in 20K troops and miles of barbed wire for the inauguration? "They" realized that they came this close to what @richwicks described, but the protesters were too civil to commit mass murder of the entire political establishment.

"They" won't make that same mistake again. Tens of thousands of the millions who storm the barricades will die this time.

They got the guns, but
We got the numbers
Gonna win, yeah we're
Taking over . . .
COME ON!

stereotomy says

Why do you think "they" called in 20K troops and miles of barbed wire for the inauguration? "They" realized that they came this close to what richwicks described, but the protesters were too civil to commit mass murder of the entire political establishment.

I think it was merely optics to make it appear an insurrection was attempted.

I don't think they were genuinely afraid of a real insurrection.

People in the know, realize that we get two fucking puppets to pick from and both of those puppets are controlled. We've not been in a democratic republic since AT LEAST Reagan, and probably Kennedy - even though Kennedy probably wasn't elected. It may go back to Lincoln. That guy was a piece of shit himself, he was no liberator, he was a tyrant, and in fact, when he was killed by James Booth, he shouted "death to tyrants", and that's precisely what he was.

https://jembendell.com/2022/11/21/its-not-too-late-to-stop-being-a-tool-of-oppression/

This matters today as we still have health challenges to work together on. It also matters as the authoritarians are still working with corporates to impose restrictions on humanity based on false medical rationales (as an exhibit, see the communiques coming out of the G20 summit). If you went along with the orthodoxy, or didn’t seek to intervene in any way, then some introspection will help you avoid being dangerous to others in future. Yes, I say dangerous, because authoritarianism requires people to support its policies by being scared into becoming misinformed moral ‘police’ of their friends, family, neighbours and colleagues, or just scared into ‘sitting on the fence’.

One way to start doing something about it is through meaningful apologies that can then begin a dialogue about how to engage better in future. Here are some suggestions:

If you were aggressive to someone about Covid, you have an opportunity to apologise for being both aggressive and scientifically wrong.
If you pressured someone who was not vulnerable to be vaccinated, you have an opportunity to apologise for being scientifically wrong.
If you argued with someone on the finer points of science but didn’t listen to the science that already cast doubt on your view, you have an opportunity to apologise for being scientifically wrong.
If you had influence in relation to the conversations in your organisation or networks but did nothing about the hostility directed against people for their views on Covid, you have an opportunity to apologise for, in this instance, being rubbish in an emergency.
If you have shifted your view on the relevant science and the appropriate policies, but feel annoyed at people like me for bringing attention to this, you have an opportunity to see beyond your bruised ego for the sake of humanity and actually apologise for something to someone.

@DeficitHawk

richwicks says

Liberals are one thing, they aren't "libtards

Progressives, not liberals, progressives working for utopia.

EBGuy says

There is a reason Four officers who responded to U.S. Capitol attack have died by suicide.

They had something on Hillary?

Onvacation says

richwicks says

Liberals are one thing, they aren't "libtards

Progressives, not liberals, progressives working for utopia.

It's a fine goal to work for a utopia.

Libshits are just assholes that are obedient slaves, that believe the assholes that CLAIM to represent a movement, who obviously do not.

I'm a human being, I'm kinda smart, I want to work for the furtherance of humanity. I oppose senseless wars, I want to make a better world - I would have been called a liberal, 30 years ago. I just know (now) my government is hopelessly corrupt and dishonest. My government doesn't work for the improvement for the world, they work for their own benefit, exclusively.

WookieMan says

Tread lightly with suicide talk. 1/6 had nothing to do with any suicides.

Cops have guns and do not have the respect they used to have.
https://www.wlbt.com/2022/01/08/suicide-among-top-reasons-law-enforcement-deaths-2021/
https://www.addictioncenter.com/news/2019/09/police-at-highest-risk-for-suicide-than-any-profession/

Onvacation says

WookieMan says

Tread lightly with suicide talk. 1/6 had nothing to do with any suicides.

Cops have guns and do not have the respect they used to have.
https://www.wlbt.com/2022/01/08/suicide-among-top-reasons-law-enforcement-deaths-2021/
https://www.addictioncenter.com/news/2019/09/police-at-highest-risk-for-suicide-than-any-profession/

Jan 6 was a protests of tokers, shamans and grandmas, anybody claiming these trespassing people caused serious bodily harm to anyone is just bullshitting. In fact Trump offered to increase police size dramatically and it was rejected! Exactly because they knew these people were no serious threat, but if they kept the numbers of guards low enough they could likely exploit the situation with a few glowies egging them on and turn it into a bullshit narrative with kangaroo courts

richwicks says

Patrick is wrong - not ALL homosexuals are just victims, some are just homosexual.

I never said they were all victims. I said that more than half were molested by gay men when they were boys.

Some of them are just perverse, but I still think they acquired the vice from a sodom-like environment somewhere, like prison, or San Francisco. It's not plausible that it could be inborn given the immense harm it does to health and reproduction. I think of it like heroin. Someone introduces you to it, and then your life is pretty much ruled by it and ruined by it from then on.

mell says

a few glowies egging them on and turn it into a bullshit narrative with kangaroo courts

EPPSing them on.

Patrick says

richwicks says

Patrick is wrong - not ALL homosexuals are just victims, some are just homosexual.

I never said they were all victims. I said that more than half were molested by gay men when they were boys.

Some of them are just perverse, but I still think they acquired the vice from a sodom-like environment somewhere, like prison, or San Francisco. It's not plausible that it could be inborn given the immense harm it does to health and reproduction. I think of it like heroin. Someone introduces you to it, and then your life is pretty much ruled by it and ruined by it from then on.

I think that pretty well sums it up. And I would add that sex is for some people addictive just like a drug. So when I say homosexuals are all victims, one meaning of that is that they are victims of their own sinful depraved nature ( we all have a sinful depraved nature from birth which is why you don’t need to be taught to sin you do it by nature) and/or they are victims of someone else’s depraved desires. I think it is possible for men to love each other, but if their love is true it is not sexual. In the Greek true love is phileo and agape love (not Eros love which is perverse if it occurs between members of the same sex and even creation itself shows that in that men and women fit together but people of the same sex don’t have the equipment for proper coupling and procreation).

The BLM protests were set-up by our intelligence agencies. The media, controlled by these agencies, did not want the protests to get out of control so they pushed the "non-violent" narrative. With millions and millions of protestors with legitimate grievances against the police (no I don't mean Floyd), they were largely peaceful.

The Black Perspective:

Pretty much every Black in America knows a closely related person who has been brought up on bogus charges. It happens and it happens frequently.

It happened during the BLM protests too. Here is one incident that happened in my area, Phoenix.

14 Black males decided they were going to get together and protest. The police found out about this.They arrested 15 of the Blacks (an extra just happened to be in the area) for minor offenses like obstructing traffic, etc .Before the arrests, the police along with the FBI came up with the idea to add a "gang affiliation" charge, as well,. This was even though the protestors did not belong to a gang. The gang affiliation charge was a felony and would add about 7 years onto the sentences The police falsified evidence to a grand jury, got a prosecutor to go along with this and was going to railroad these men through the system.

...Well, someone balked and went to the media (they put it on like page 12). All the charges were dropped against the Blacks and the mayor had someone investigate this. The investigator had zero power to arrest the perpetrators. The spineless State AG (who is as establishment GOP as it comes) has done and will do nothing. It is currently being looked at by another police department in Arizona. I am guessing that 20-50 police were involved, several members from the prosecutor's office and at least 1 FBI agent. If you think that this many police are going to be sent to prison, you really don't know what country you are living in. In a ballsy move the mayor did have the investigative report posted online.

https://www.phoenix.gov/citymanagersite/Documents/Gang-Related-Summary-Report-08-12-2021.pdf

Incidents like this happen all the time. In my opinion, the BLM protests were much more peaceful than they could have been. Don't cry over a few hundred whites being imprisoned for Jan 6.

Misc says

legitimate grievances against the police (no I don't mean Floyd),

This is the problem. The supposed spark of the riots in 2020 was the brutal treatment of Floyd during his arrest. But while I do feel the police were unnecessarily brutal that day, there are greater and more important examples of police brutality that never get reported (or are buried and not emphasized by the controlled mainstream media narrators). So Floyd because he was labeled as a martyr/victim of racism he becomes a saint, Chauvin is labeled as a racist and the devil. And ultimately the corrupt powers that be are happy to use Chauvin as a scapegoat because across the country the brutality and miscarriages of justice against presumably innocent individuals continue in spades.

Misc says

Incidents like this happen all the time. In my opinion, the BLM protests were much more peaceful than they could have been. Don't cry over a few hundred whites being imprisoned for Jan 6.

First it's not just whites that were imprisoned for January 6th.

Second, the BLM protests were FAR more violent than that happened on January 6th.

We don't have a government. It's just a criminal syndicate.

Patrick says

I would like to have a very polite debate with some Democrats on patrick.net.

DeficitHawk says

Well, I guess this is the end of the road for our discussion then.

What have we learned from this discussion?

@DeficitHawk is obviously intelligent, educated, and able to express his ideas. Unfortunately he would not consider counter evidence and has now left the conversation.

My conclusions are that DeficitHawk was either a shill that knows full well the lies that the ministry of truth is pushing are simply propaganda, or he, like many "Progressives", has been brainwashed by the media for so long that the cognitive dissonance becomes overwhelming and they run away.

Where's Iwog? Where's Dan? Where's Marcus? Where are all of the progressives we have argued with over the years? Is there no champion of the left that will come and debate us?

Onvacation says

My conclusions are that DeficitHawk was either a shill that knows full well the lies that the ministry of truth is pushing are simply propaganda, or he, like many "Progressives", has been brainwashed by the media for so long that the cognitive dissonance becomes overwhelming and they run away.

Or an actor having fun playing a role. The giveaway was when he/she spoke of the Jan 6 protests as an insurgency masterminded by Trump.

HeadSet says

Onvacation says

My conclusions are that DeficitHawk was either a shill that knows full well the lies that the ministry of truth is pushing are simply propaganda, or he, like many "Progressives", has been brainwashed by the media for so long that the cognitive dissonance becomes overwhelming and they run away.

Or an actor having fun playing a role. The giveaway was when he/she spoke of the Jan 6 protests as an insurgency masterminded by Trump.

He could have also been a psychological researcher or some such, probably funded by NSA or other intelligence agencies to investigate "fringe" forums and websites.

"Payroll Propagandist. Check your conscience at the door, we'll mail you your check."

stereotomy says

HeadSet says

Onvacation says

My conclusions are that DeficitHawk was either a shill that knows full well the lies that the ministry of truth is pushing are simply propaganda, or he, like many "Progressives", has been brainwashed by the media for so long that the cognitive dissonance becomes overwhelming and they run away.

Or an actor having fun playing a role. The giveaway was when he/she spoke of the Jan 6 protests as an insurgency masterminded by Trump.

He could have also been a psychological researcher or some such, probably funded by NSA or other intelligence agencies to investigate "fringe" forums and websites.

Well, whatever it was, it was QUITE pissed off I wouldn't accept a "news" article as evidence in the Derek Chauvin trial when I went through the work to find actual documents submitted from the coroner, and translated the cursive writing into text.

I don't believe it sincerely cared about being correct and may have been testing people's resilience to propaganda narratives.