patrick.net

Hircus says

I think some months back in this year I read that there was unusual drone activity near US resources, like power plants and electric substations

https://www.wired.com/story/drone-attack-power-substation-threat/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2020/07/30/drone-swarm-invaded-palo-verde-nuclear-power-plant/?sh=5e4f8d5743de

Hircus says

crazy vulnerable our electric grid is

Go to page 72 under the heading Cyber and Physical Security

https://www.nerc.com/pa/RAPA/PA/Performance%20Analysis%20DL/NERC_SOR_2021.pdf

Hircus says

Was it russia?

Hircus says

Sure, it could have been a disgruntled employee

Why not a "gruntled" employee ? No one ever hears about the shit "gruntled" employees do, they get away with murder and then some. It's always the disgruntled who get the blame in everything.

Anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of power distribution and substations that is either a decent shot with a scoped rifle or has an associate that is a decent shot, could do this and for reasons one could only imagine from vindictiveness to something more sinister.

There is more risk from someone who can hack and break into the control logic and computers for public and private utilities and it will do far more and longer lasting damage. Water treatment, power generation and control, your choice.

Eco -terrorist

Have they denied it?

DD214 says

Anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of power distribution and substations that is either a decent shot with a scoped rifle or has an associate that is a decent shot, could do this and for reasons one could only imagine from vindictiveness to something more sinister.

I've heard that a method to destroy a substation, is just drop a bunch of conductive wires on it, like sheets of flexible conductive foil. Shorts out the station. I think this is what the US does when it blows up infrastructure in every country that attack. Simple roof could fix that.

Democrats and its enforcer, the FBI, will conveniently blame this on "right wing terrorists" .

richwicks says

I've heard that a method to destroy a substation, is just drop a bunch of conductive wires on it, like sheets of flexible conductive foil. Shorts out the station. I think this is what the US does when it blows up infrastructure in every country that attack. Simple roof could fix that.

Need to harden the grid. I like your solution along with putting in concrete and/or metal walls around critical electrical infrastructure.

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Hircus says

Does anyone else think the attack on the north carolina power plant may have been russia?

I don't...And not China either...Rachel Maddow probably does...and the played out sluts from the view too

ad says

Need to harden the grid. I like your solution along with putting in concrete and/or metal walls around critical electrical infrastructure.

Don't you know that walls don't work...They are a waste of money

ad says

richwicks says

I've heard that a method to destroy a substation, is just drop a bunch of conductive wires on it, like sheets of flexible conductive foil. Shorts out the station. I think this is what the US does when it blows up infrastructure in every country that attack. Simple roof could fix that.

Need to harden the grid. I like your solution along with putting in concrete and/or metal walls around critical electrical infrastructure.

.

Oh, that's not my solution.

My solution is to remove the nutcase Neocons and Shitlibs, and expunge them not only from our government, but from our society.

komputodo says

Don't you know that walls don't work...They are a waste of money

If you put thick enough walls then it will be hard to get a clear gunshot such as from a hunting rifle of the critical electrical infrastructure.

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Pretty much anyone with a scope can snipe high power wires.

DD214 says

There is more risk from someone who can hack and break into the control logic and computers for public and private utilities and it will do far more and longer lasting damage.

Its a high risk for sure, but I still think physical methods would be utilized by an enemy in many scenarios.

If this really was a russian desire to send us a message, I can see reasons why they may prefer a physical attack. Our physical vulnerabilities are known by all, and have been known for decades. The reason the physical vulnerabilities still exist is because it's far too expensive to fix them all. We could build a wall or roof to protect, but there's just soooo many other physical avenues they could use instead. To try to fix everything might not be realistic.

Contrasted with digital attacks. We don't knowingly have many vulnerabilities. We know were vulnerable, but we don't yet know how it could be done. When we become aware of one, we fix it. Well, at least generally we do. So if an enemy wanted to send us a message via a hacking attack, they need to sacrifice an exploit method. Once they use it, we'll figure it out and patch it, so it's unlikely they can use it again. Their list of digital exploits is finite, and good ones are very valuable, and IMO shouldn't be wasted on a message - better to save it for a real attack.

I'm not sure how difficult it is for a hacker to use their control of the systems to damage components, necessitating replacement parts. Like overheat things, raise the voltage to levels that fry things, flip a switch to cause a short, etc... I'm sure they could, but I'm not sure how many opportunities exist. I'd imagine most of their mayhem would be done by destroying the computer systems themselves. I bet most utilities have lots of systems that were setup long ago by prior employees, and now nobody wants to touch those systems for fear of breaking it and causing a long outage while they figure it out and rebuild it.

RWSGFY says

Have they denied it?

I'm not even sure theyve even been accused of it. us govt might not want to do that, and may prefer it be blamed on a teenage punk even if if they know it was russia.

Hircus says

To try to fix everything might not be realistic.

Exercise in futility. There will always be the in debt over their ass and then some employee(s) who will be vulnerable to pulling an inside job with the right financial incentive.

Hircus says

When we become aware of one, we fix it.

We could but we don't. Safety and fixing things costs $$ and their is always a cost/benefit analysis as well as actuaries calculating the odds

Hircus says

I'm not sure how difficult it is for a hacker to use their control of the systems to damage components, necessitating replacement parts. Like overheat things, raise the voltage to levels that fry things, flip a switch to cause a short, etc... I'm sure they could, but I'm not sure how many opportunities exist

https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-19-332

https://www.msspalert.com/cybersecurity-markets/verticals/electric-power-grid-risks/

https://www.nist.gov/programs-projects/cybersecurity-smart-grid-systems

Anyone with working knowledge of say Moore or Bailey control systems would not be challenged. Change an "and" block to an "or" block or fail open to fail close or just set up a timer to take the thing down - the possibilities are endless.

Don't want to mess with the software, again anyone with working knowledge of these systems can simply install jumper pins.

Want to damage something ? Open a tie breaker with the generator under load.

Hircus says

Their list of digital exploits is finite

Infinite with someone with imagination and desire

Hircus says

I bet most utilities have lots of systems that were setup long ago by prior employees, and now nobody wants to touch those systems for fear of breaking it and causing a long outage while they figure it out and rebuild it.

Which is a major problem in and of itself

Hircus says

but I'm not sure how many opportunities exist

Just as many for the Air Traffic Control System

Hircus says

If this really was a russian desire to send us a message, I can see reasons why they may prefer a physical attack

Why - to what end ? Entirely more entertaining watch everyone hit full blown shit your self panic for days, weeks and months. Suspect each other, turn on each other and blame everyone else and anything else.

Hircus says

I'm not sure how difficult it is for a hacker to use their control of the systems to damage components, necessitating replacement parts

Ridiculously easy and those "replacement" parts on not sitting on a shelf in a warehouse. They will be manufactured per system requirements.

Hircus says

Once they use it, we'll figure it out and patch it, so it's unlikely they can use it again

Like the hospitals and other businesses do with personal information ? They've done it and are still doing it even with patches.

DD214 says

Hircus says
Their list of digital exploits is finite
Infinite with someone with imagination and desire

This is like saying there's infinite food if we only just put infinite time / effort / money into farming it. Or Infinite housing if we just had infinite labor and materials. Infinite innovations if we just had infinite smart people. But costs/resources matter. Most things are constrained by costs/resources/time etc...

DD214 says

Hircus says
When we become aware of one, we fix it.
We could but we don't. Safety and fixing things costs $$ and their is always a cost/benefit analysis as well as actuaries calculating the odds

Ah, so you do pay attention to costs. At least when it suits your argument.

So, the context here is hacking utilities. If a utility gets hacked, they will investigate how it happened and try very hard to fix the hole. Yes yes...I understand
that they may not find the problem within a sensible amount of time/money and the actuaries would thankfully direct them to just give up before they make like a black hole and consume all the resources in the entire universe in their totally boundless pursuit of fixing the bug...

Anyway, there's a good chance theyll find the hole(s) and patch/harden, and whatever exploit was used likely wont work there again. Some things arent "patchable" - social engineering, compromised employee laptop, etc... but they can still make process or other improvements (like add 2fa) which makes it tougher on attackers.

In the end, the attacker consumed an exploit, which costs them time and money. It will be harder for them to hack that place again. There is a cost to it. Only they can decide if the cost/benefit of hacking vs physical attacks make more sense for their specific situation and goals. Both paths are very obviously viable. I think shooting a gun at a power station, that isn't on any red alert, is very low cost and easy.

Nice usage of misquoting me by leaving off my next sentence, though. Very dishonest argument style.

DD214 says
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Damn. Are you feeling kinda blue, bud? It seems like you have a major chip on your shoulder. Youre obviously technical, and may even have some knowledge in these domains (worked at a utility?). Yet you argue dishonestly and twist words/context to facilitate yourself opportunities to quote me and use petty details to make it look like youre 1upping me. I guess I dared to talk about utilities in your presence? You would be more effective if you didn't need to twist things, but meh. You're motives here are clear to me. I hope it makes you feel better. Here's a kitten bro. I found a special one just for you to give you the warm fuzzy feel betters.

Four electric substations were attacked in washington on xmas day.

Authorities havent caught anyone for neither this attack, nor the NC attack. Although, they say neo nazi whyte nationalists are suspected (their favorite make believe scapegoat, I might add). They say the NC attack was at the same time as some tranny event, and they believed they took out the power to stop the trans group from "celebrating". They have no proof of it. Maybe, but I remain a skeptic.

Just like the attack 3 weeks ago, which was followed by drone strikes on russian military bases hundreds of miles into their border the day after the power went out, the same happened again. Maybe I just havent heard, but these are the only 2 times russia has been attacked deep in their borders that I'm aware of. Both times headlines said people were worried these attacks inside russian borders risked large escalations, which supports my belief they have restrained from these moves, making them somewhat extraordinary.

I find it so very odd that twice now we see:
1) attack on us electric grid deep inside the usa,
2) followed 1-2 days later by an attack on russian military bases deep in russia. otherwise, we dont see attacks inside russian borders.

Hircus says

Does anyone else think the attack on the north carolina power plant may have been russia?

No it's the same Janes Revenge retard fucks, that set the California forests on fire a few years back and got lots of people killed, but the Obiden DOJ saw no need to announce a terror threat. The Libs, RINOs and Globalist scumbags, still owe Putin an apology for dragging him into their lies about Trump.

Is Russia destroying our food processing plants as well, and killing off Livestock herds, is Russia trying like hell to create mass starvation in Europe and the US?

People need to pull their heads out of Racheal Maddows asshole.

Well, in order, I suppose suspicion could be ranked as follows: 1. Swiss Ocatagon and Globalists/WEF 2. CIA, MI6 and Five Eyes etc. 3. Khazarian Mafia Babylonian Debt Slavers 4. Vatican and Jesuits 5.P3 Masons and Black Nobility 6. European and British Royals 7. Various psychotic 33'd degree depopulation Masons.

After eliminating all of those, one might begin to query about possible Russian influences. Happy Hunting!

Ceffer says

Well, in order, I suppose suspicion could be ranked as follows: 1. Swiss Ocatagon and Globalists/WEF 2. CIA, MI6 and Five Eyes etc. 3. Khazarian Mafia Babylonian Debt Slavers 4. Vatican and Jesuits 5.P3 Masons and Black Nobility 6. European and British Royals 7. Various psychotic 33'd degree depopulation Masons.

After eliminating all of those, one might begin to query about possible Russian influences. Happy Hunting!

Sir, you are clearly well-versed in the vagaries of the Ancient Orders. But whence Qanon, The Illuminati, Doc Savage, and the Minions of Cthulhu?

Goys, it just so happens I have a startup that will both protect your infrastructure as well as quell those right wing terrorists! Hurry, pass funding for my company!

remember anthrax scare selling us into Iraq war?

same shit, they don’t change propaganda.

FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says

remember anthrax scare selling us into Iraq war?

same shit, they don’t change propaganda.

You know the whole anthrax crap came from Israel, at least in part.

Israel lied about seeing a transfer of anthrax take place from the Hussein regime. That propaganda was used to start the Iraq War. In truth, no transfer took place and it's highly likely that our own intelligence agencies were mailing out the stuff, or Israel was.

We kind of know this for certain because each mailing contained the same letter inside with the anthrax that said something along the lines of "Death to Israel / Death to America", but some of these envelops did not contain real anthrax. Judith Miller who was a dedicated propagandist working for the NY Times at the time received a letter, but not with anthrax in it, but the same letter.

People who were promoting the Iraq War were never threatened.

rocketjoe79 says

But whence Qanon, The Illuminati, Doc Savage, and the Minions of Cthulhu?

Everybody knows about them already.

Did Russia also hack Southwest and ruin my vacation plan?

Peter P says

Did Russia also hack Southwest and ruin my vacation plan?

No. Global warming did.

I don't care if people dont agree with me in that I think russia may be behind it. I stated very clearly in the original post I was speculating, and presented evidence that has only gotten much stronger since.

Usually people on patnet are good at seeing connections and discussing them. Not much of that going on here. What I think is funny is the reaction many are having because I implicated their boyfriend vladimir. Maybe they want to ride on his horse? It was caused by anything but my vladi pooh!!! Vlad is a nice guy, and wouldnt ever counter attack his aggressors during a war. No sir. Unpossible. Slurp slurp slurp.

Whether or not russia is at fault / justified / innocent for the war has no bearing here. They're at war, with ukraine, and realistically, with us. Retaliating, threatening, and attacking their opponents is not far fetched in the slightest.

I think it's almost silly to not suspect them. That doesnt mean it is them.

Tenpoundbass says

No it's the same Janes Revenge retard fucks, that set the California forests on fire a few years back and got lots of people killed

Ok. Why now?

What about the timing of the attacks on russia right afterwards? 2x coincidence?

Tenpoundbass says

Is Russia destroying our food processing plants as well, and killing off Livestock herds, is Russia trying like hell to create mass starvation in Europe and the US?

People need to pull their heads out of Racheal Maddows asshole.

Russia totally isnt telling europeans theyre gonna be cold and hungry if they keep supporting the anti russian war. No sir.

Onvacation says

Peter P says

Did Russia also hack Southwest and ruin my vacation plan?

No. Global warming did.

Global warming hacked their crew scheduling software?

Onvacation says

Peter P says

Did Russia also hack Southwest and ruin my vacation plan?

No. Global warming did.

that was internalized racism

Ceffer says

Well, in order, I suppose suspicion could be ranked as follows: 1. Swiss Ocatagon and Globalists/WEF 2. CIA, MI6 and Five Eyes etc. 3. Khazarian Mafia Babylonian Debt Slavers 4. Vatican and Jesuits 5.P3 Masons and Black Nobility 6. European and British Royals 7. Various psychotic 33'd degree depopulation Masons.

After eliminating all of those, one might begin to query about possible Russian influences. Happy Hunting!

It could be intel agencies. I think they have motive too, just like russia does. We are at war, and this kinda stuff happens. Opponents threaten, flex on, and strike each other.

But the way you defend ole pootie pooh by saying hes the very least likely suspect just doesnt strike me as rational at all. Sounds like a position I would expect to see people take 1+ years ago, before the war started. Then it would make sense.