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14
Hircus
2022 Dec 7, 8:45am
Hircus
2022 Dec 7, 8:45am
DD214 says
Its a high risk for sure, but I still think physical methods would be utilized by an enemy in many scenarios.
If this really was a russian desire to send us a message, I can see reasons why they may prefer a physical attack. Our physical vulnerabilities are known by all, and have been known for decades. The reason the physical vulnerabilities still exist is because it's far too expensive to fix them all. We could build a wall or roof to protect, but there's just soooo many other physical avenues they could use instead. To try to fix everything might not be realistic.
Contrasted with digital attacks. We don't knowingly have many vulnerabilities. We know were vulnerable, but we don't yet know how it could be done. When we become aware of one, we fix it. Well, at least generally we do. So if an enemy wanted to send us a message via a hacking attack, they need to sacrifice an exploit method. Once they use it, we'll figure it out and patch it, so it's unlikely they can use it again. Their list of digital exploits is finite, and good ones are very valuable, and IMO shouldn't be wasted on a message - better to save it for a real attack.
I'm not sure how difficult it is for a hacker to use their control of the systems to damage components, necessitating replacement parts. Like overheat things, raise the voltage to levels that fry things, flip a switch to cause a short, etc... I'm sure they could, but I'm not sure how many opportunities exist. I'd imagine most of their mayhem would be done by destroying the computer systems themselves. I bet most utilities have lots of systems that were setup long ago by prior employees, and now nobody wants to touch those systems for fear of breaking it and causing a long outage while they figure it out and rebuild it.
There is more risk from someone who can hack and break into the control logic and computers for public and private utilities and it will do far more and longer lasting damage.
Its a high risk for sure, but I still think physical methods would be utilized by an enemy in many scenarios.
If this really was a russian desire to send us a message, I can see reasons why they may prefer a physical attack. Our physical vulnerabilities are known by all, and have been known for decades. The reason the physical vulnerabilities still exist is because it's far too expensive to fix them all. We could build a wall or roof to protect, but there's just soooo many other physical avenues they could use instead. To try to fix everything might not be realistic.
Contrasted with digital attacks. We don't knowingly have many vulnerabilities. We know were vulnerable, but we don't yet know how it could be done. When we become aware of one, we fix it. Well, at least generally we do. So if an enemy wanted to send us a message via a hacking attack, they need to sacrifice an exploit method. Once they use it, we'll figure it out and patch it, so it's unlikely they can use it again. Their list of digital exploits is finite, and good ones are very valuable, and IMO shouldn't be wasted on a message - better to save it for a real attack.
I'm not sure how difficult it is for a hacker to use their control of the systems to damage components, necessitating replacement parts. Like overheat things, raise the voltage to levels that fry things, flip a switch to cause a short, etc... I'm sure they could, but I'm not sure how many opportunities exist. I'd imagine most of their mayhem would be done by destroying the computer systems themselves. I bet most utilities have lots of systems that were setup long ago by prior employees, and now nobody wants to touch those systems for fear of breaking it and causing a long outage while they figure it out and rebuild it.
15
Hircus
2022 Dec 7, 8:50am
Hircus
2022 Dec 7, 8:50am
RWSGFY says
I'm not even sure theyve even been accused of it. us govt might not want to do that, and may prefer it be blamed on a teenage punk even if if they know it was russia.
Have they denied it?
I'm not even sure theyve even been accused of it. us govt might not want to do that, and may prefer it be blamed on a teenage punk even if if they know it was russia.
16
DD214
2022 Dec 7, 2:53pm
Hircus says
Exercise in futility. There will always be the in debt over their ass and then some employee(s) who will be vulnerable to pulling an inside job with the right financial incentive.
To try to fix everything might not be realistic.
Exercise in futility. There will always be the in debt over their ass and then some employee(s) who will be vulnerable to pulling an inside job with the right financial incentive.
17
DD214
2022 Dec 7, 2:54pm
Hircus says
We could but we don't. Safety and fixing things costs $$ and their is always a cost/benefit analysis as well as actuaries calculating the odds
When we become aware of one, we fix it.
We could but we don't. Safety and fixing things costs $$ and their is always a cost/benefit analysis as well as actuaries calculating the odds
18
DD214
2022 Dec 7, 3:00pm
Hircus says
https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-19-332
https://www.msspalert.com/cybersecurity-markets/verticals/electric-power-grid-risks/
https://www.nist.gov/programs-projects/cybersecurity-smart-grid-systems
Anyone with working knowledge of say Moore or Bailey control systems would not be challenged. Change an "and" block to an "or" block or fail open to fail close or just set up a timer to take the thing down - the possibilities are endless.
Don't want to mess with the software, again anyone with working knowledge of these systems can simply install jumper pins.
Want to damage something ? Open a tie breaker with the generator under load.
Hircus says
Infinite with someone with imagination and desire
Hircus says
Which is a major problem in and of itself
I'm not sure how difficult it is for a hacker to use their control of the systems to damage components, necessitating replacement parts. Like overheat things, raise the voltage to levels that fry things, flip a switch to cause a short, etc... I'm sure they could, but I'm not sure how many opportunities exist
https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-19-332
https://www.msspalert.com/cybersecurity-markets/verticals/electric-power-grid-risks/
https://www.nist.gov/programs-projects/cybersecurity-smart-grid-systems
Anyone with working knowledge of say Moore or Bailey control systems would not be challenged. Change an "and" block to an "or" block or fail open to fail close or just set up a timer to take the thing down - the possibilities are endless.
Don't want to mess with the software, again anyone with working knowledge of these systems can simply install jumper pins.
Want to damage something ? Open a tie breaker with the generator under load.
Hircus says
Their list of digital exploits is finite
Infinite with someone with imagination and desire
Hircus says
I bet most utilities have lots of systems that were setup long ago by prior employees, and now nobody wants to touch those systems for fear of breaking it and causing a long outage while they figure it out and rebuild it.
Which is a major problem in and of itself
19
DD214
2022 Dec 7, 3:01pm
Hircus says
Just as many for the Air Traffic Control System
but I'm not sure how many opportunities exist
Just as many for the Air Traffic Control System
20
DD214
2022 Dec 7, 3:04pm
Hircus says
Why - to what end ? Entirely more entertaining watch everyone hit full blown shit your self panic for days, weeks and months. Suspect each other, turn on each other and blame everyone else and anything else.
If this really was a russian desire to send us a message, I can see reasons why they may prefer a physical attack
Why - to what end ? Entirely more entertaining watch everyone hit full blown shit your self panic for days, weeks and months. Suspect each other, turn on each other and blame everyone else and anything else.
21
DD214
2022 Dec 7, 3:06pm
Hircus says
Ridiculously easy and those "replacement" parts on not sitting on a shelf in a warehouse. They will be manufactured per system requirements.
I'm not sure how difficult it is for a hacker to use their control of the systems to damage components, necessitating replacement parts
Ridiculously easy and those "replacement" parts on not sitting on a shelf in a warehouse. They will be manufactured per system requirements.
22
DD214
2022 Dec 7, 3:07pm
Hircus says
Like the hospitals and other businesses do with personal information ? They've done it and are still doing it even with patches.
Once they use it, we'll figure it out and patch it, so it's unlikely they can use it again
Like the hospitals and other businesses do with personal information ? They've done it and are still doing it even with patches.
23
Hircus
2022 Dec 8, 8:11am
Hircus
2022 Dec 8, 8:11am
DD214 says
This is like saying there's infinite food if we only just put infinite time / effort / money into farming it. Or Infinite housing if we just had infinite labor and materials. Infinite innovations if we just had infinite smart people. But costs/resources matter. Most things are constrained by costs/resources/time etc...
DD214 says
Ah, so you do pay attention to costs. At least when it suits your argument.
So, the context here is hacking utilities. If a utility gets hacked, they will investigate how it happened and try very hard to fix the hole. Yes yes...I understand
that they may not find the problem within a sensible amount of time/money and the actuaries would thankfully direct them to just give up before they make like a black hole and consume all the resources in the entire universe in their totally boundless pursuit of fixing the bug...
Anyway, there's a good chance theyll find the hole(s) and patch/harden, and whatever exploit was used likely wont work there again. Some things arent "patchable" - social engineering, compromised employee laptop, etc... but they can still make process or other improvements (like add 2fa) which makes it tougher on attackers.
In the end, the attacker consumed an exploit, which costs them time and money. It will be harder for them to hack that place again. There is a cost to it. Only they can decide if the cost/benefit of hacking vs physical attacks make more sense for their specific situation and goals. Both paths are very obviously viable. I think shooting a gun at a power station, that isn't on any red alert, is very low cost and easy.
Nice usage of misquoting me by leaving off my next sentence, though. Very dishonest argument style.
DD214 says
...
DD214 says
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DD214 says
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DD214 says
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DD214 says
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Damn. Are you feeling kinda blue, bud? It seems like you have a major chip on your shoulder. Youre obviously technical, and may even have some knowledge in these domains (worked at a utility?). Yet you argue dishonestly and twist words/context to facilitate yourself opportunities to quote me and use petty details to make it look like youre 1upping me. I guess I dared to talk about utilities in your presence? You would be more effective if you didn't need to twist things, but meh. You're motives here are clear to me. I hope it makes you feel better. Here's a kitten bro. I found a special one just for you to give you the warm fuzzy feel betters.
Hircus says
Their list of digital exploits is finite
Infinite with someone with imagination and desire
This is like saying there's infinite food if we only just put infinite time / effort / money into farming it. Or Infinite housing if we just had infinite labor and materials. Infinite innovations if we just had infinite smart people. But costs/resources matter. Most things are constrained by costs/resources/time etc...
DD214 says
Hircus says
When we become aware of one, we fix it.
We could but we don't. Safety and fixing things costs $$ and their is always a cost/benefit analysis as well as actuaries calculating the odds
Ah, so you do pay attention to costs. At least when it suits your argument.
So, the context here is hacking utilities. If a utility gets hacked, they will investigate how it happened and try very hard to fix the hole. Yes yes...I understand
that they may not find the problem within a sensible amount of time/money and the actuaries would thankfully direct them to just give up before they make like a black hole and consume all the resources in the entire universe in their totally boundless pursuit of fixing the bug...
Anyway, there's a good chance theyll find the hole(s) and patch/harden, and whatever exploit was used likely wont work there again. Some things arent "patchable" - social engineering, compromised employee laptop, etc... but they can still make process or other improvements (like add 2fa) which makes it tougher on attackers.
In the end, the attacker consumed an exploit, which costs them time and money. It will be harder for them to hack that place again. There is a cost to it. Only they can decide if the cost/benefit of hacking vs physical attacks make more sense for their specific situation and goals. Both paths are very obviously viable. I think shooting a gun at a power station, that isn't on any red alert, is very low cost and easy.
Nice usage of misquoting me by leaving off my next sentence, though. Very dishonest argument style.
DD214 says
...
DD214 says
...
DD214 says
...
DD214 says
...
DD214 says
...
Damn. Are you feeling kinda blue, bud? It seems like you have a major chip on your shoulder. Youre obviously technical, and may even have some knowledge in these domains (worked at a utility?). Yet you argue dishonestly and twist words/context to facilitate yourself opportunities to quote me and use petty details to make it look like youre 1upping me. I guess I dared to talk about utilities in your presence? You would be more effective if you didn't need to twist things, but meh. You're motives here are clear to me. I hope it makes you feel better. Here's a kitten bro. I found a special one just for you to give you the warm fuzzy feel betters.
24
Hircus
2022 Dec 28, 8:25am
Hircus
2022 Dec 28, 8:25am
Four electric substations were attacked in washington on xmas day.
Authorities havent caught anyone for neither this attack, nor the NC attack. Although, they say neo nazi whyte nationalists are suspected (their favorite make believe scapegoat, I might add). They say the NC attack was at the same time as some tranny event, and they believed they took out the power to stop the trans group from "celebrating". They have no proof of it. Maybe, but I remain a skeptic.
Just like the attack 3 weeks ago, which was followed by drone strikes on russian military bases hundreds of miles into their border the day after the power went out, the same happened again. Maybe I just havent heard, but these are the only 2 times russia has been attacked deep in their borders that I'm aware of. Both times headlines said people were worried these attacks inside russian borders risked large escalations, which supports my belief they have restrained from these moves, making them somewhat extraordinary.
I find it so very odd that twice now we see:
1) attack on us electric grid deep inside the usa,
2) followed 1-2 days later by an attack on russian military bases deep in russia. otherwise, we dont see attacks inside russian borders.
Authorities havent caught anyone for neither this attack, nor the NC attack. Although, they say neo nazi whyte nationalists are suspected (their favorite make believe scapegoat, I might add). They say the NC attack was at the same time as some tranny event, and they believed they took out the power to stop the trans group from "celebrating". They have no proof of it. Maybe, but I remain a skeptic.
Just like the attack 3 weeks ago, which was followed by drone strikes on russian military bases hundreds of miles into their border the day after the power went out, the same happened again. Maybe I just havent heard, but these are the only 2 times russia has been attacked deep in their borders that I'm aware of. Both times headlines said people were worried these attacks inside russian borders risked large escalations, which supports my belief they have restrained from these moves, making them somewhat extraordinary.
I find it so very odd that twice now we see:
1) attack on us electric grid deep inside the usa,
2) followed 1-2 days later by an attack on russian military bases deep in russia. otherwise, we dont see attacks inside russian borders.
25
Tenpoundbass
2022 Dec 28, 9:15am
Tenpoundbass
2022 Dec 28, 9:15am
Hircus says
No it's the same Janes Revenge retard fucks, that set the California forests on fire a few years back and got lots of people killed, but the Obiden DOJ saw no need to announce a terror threat. The Libs, RINOs and Globalist scumbags, still owe Putin an apology for dragging him into their lies about Trump.
Does anyone else think the attack on the north carolina power plant may have been russia?
No it's the same Janes Revenge retard fucks, that set the California forests on fire a few years back and got lots of people killed, but the Obiden DOJ saw no need to announce a terror threat. The Libs, RINOs and Globalist scumbags, still owe Putin an apology for dragging him into their lies about Trump.
26
Tenpoundbass
2022 Dec 28, 9:16am
Tenpoundbass
2022 Dec 28, 9:16am
Is Russia destroying our food processing plants as well, and killing off Livestock herds, is Russia trying like hell to create mass starvation in Europe and the US?
People need to pull their heads out of Racheal Maddows asshole.
People need to pull their heads out of Racheal Maddows asshole.
27
Ceffer
2022 Dec 28, 9:25am
Ceffer
2022 Dec 28, 9:25am
Well, in order, I suppose suspicion could be ranked as follows: 1. Swiss Ocatagon and Globalists/WEF 2. CIA, MI6 and Five Eyes etc. 3. Khazarian Mafia Babylonian Debt Slavers 4. Vatican and Jesuits 5.P3 Masons and Black Nobility 6. European and British Royals 7. Various psychotic 33'd degree depopulation Masons.
After eliminating all of those, one might begin to query about possible Russian influences. Happy Hunting!
After eliminating all of those, one might begin to query about possible Russian influences. Happy Hunting!
28
rocketjoe79
2022 Dec 28, 10:18am
rocketjoe79
2022 Dec 28, 10:18am
Ceffer says
Sir, you are clearly well-versed in the vagaries of the Ancient Orders. But whence Qanon, The Illuminati, Doc Savage, and the Minions of Cthulhu?
Well, in order, I suppose suspicion could be ranked as follows: 1. Swiss Ocatagon and Globalists/WEF 2. CIA, MI6 and Five Eyes etc. 3. Khazarian Mafia Babylonian Debt Slavers 4. Vatican and Jesuits 5.P3 Masons and Black Nobility 6. European and British Royals 7. Various psychotic 33'd degree depopulation Masons.
After eliminating all of those, one might begin to query about possible Russian influences. Happy Hunting!
Sir, you are clearly well-versed in the vagaries of the Ancient Orders. But whence Qanon, The Illuminati, Doc Savage, and the Minions of Cthulhu?
29
steverbeaver
2022 Dec 28, 10:36am
steverbeaver
2022 Dec 28, 10:36am
Goys, it just so happens I have a startup that will both protect your infrastructure as well as quell those right wing terrorists! Hurry, pass funding for my company!
30
FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden
2022 Dec 28, 10:41am
remember anthrax scare selling us into Iraq war?
same shit, they don’t change propaganda.
same shit, they don’t change propaganda.
31
richwicks
2022 Dec 28, 10:46am
richwicks
2022 Dec 28, 10:46am
FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says
You know the whole anthrax crap came from Israel, at least in part.
Israel lied about seeing a transfer of anthrax take place from the Hussein regime. That propaganda was used to start the Iraq War. In truth, no transfer took place and it's highly likely that our own intelligence agencies were mailing out the stuff, or Israel was.
We kind of know this for certain because each mailing contained the same letter inside with the anthrax that said something along the lines of "Death to Israel / Death to America", but some of these envelops did not contain real anthrax. Judith Miller who was a dedicated propagandist working for the NY Times at the time received a letter, but not with anthrax in it, but the same letter.
People who were promoting the Iraq War were never threatened.
remember anthrax scare selling us into Iraq war?
same shit, they don’t change propaganda.
You know the whole anthrax crap came from Israel, at least in part.
Israel lied about seeing a transfer of anthrax take place from the Hussein regime. That propaganda was used to start the Iraq War. In truth, no transfer took place and it's highly likely that our own intelligence agencies were mailing out the stuff, or Israel was.
We kind of know this for certain because each mailing contained the same letter inside with the anthrax that said something along the lines of "Death to Israel / Death to America", but some of these envelops did not contain real anthrax. Judith Miller who was a dedicated propagandist working for the NY Times at the time received a letter, but not with anthrax in it, but the same letter.
People who were promoting the Iraq War were never threatened.
32
Ceffer
2022 Dec 28, 2:49pm
Ceffer
2022 Dec 28, 2:49pm
rocketjoe79 says
Everybody knows about them already.
But whence Qanon, The Illuminati, Doc Savage, and the Minions of Cthulhu?
Everybody knows about them already.
35
Hircus
2022 Dec 28, 3:58pm
Hircus
2022 Dec 28, 3:58pm
I don't care if people dont agree with me in that I think russia may be behind it. I stated very clearly in the original post I was speculating, and presented evidence that has only gotten much stronger since.
Usually people on patnet are good at seeing connections and discussing them. Not much of that going on here. What I think is funny is the reaction many are having because I implicated their boyfriend vladimir. Maybe they want to ride on his horse? It was caused by anything but my vladi pooh!!! Vlad is a nice guy, and wouldnt ever counter attack his aggressors during a war. No sir. Unpossible. Slurp slurp slurp.
Whether or not russia is at fault / justified / innocent for the war has no bearing here. They're at war, with ukraine, and realistically, with us. Retaliating, threatening, and attacking their opponents is not far fetched in the slightest.
I think it's almost silly to not suspect them. That doesnt mean it is them.
Usually people on patnet are good at seeing connections and discussing them. Not much of that going on here. What I think is funny is the reaction many are having because I implicated their boyfriend vladimir. Maybe they want to ride on his horse? It was caused by anything but my vladi pooh!!! Vlad is a nice guy, and wouldnt ever counter attack his aggressors during a war. No sir. Unpossible. Slurp slurp slurp.
Whether or not russia is at fault / justified / innocent for the war has no bearing here. They're at war, with ukraine, and realistically, with us. Retaliating, threatening, and attacking their opponents is not far fetched in the slightest.
I think it's almost silly to not suspect them. That doesnt mean it is them.
36
Hircus
2022 Dec 28, 4:00pm
Hircus
2022 Dec 28, 4:00pm
Tenpoundbass says
Ok. Why now?
What about the timing of the attacks on russia right afterwards? 2x coincidence?
No it's the same Janes Revenge retard fucks, that set the California forests on fire a few years back and got lots of people killed
Ok. Why now?
What about the timing of the attacks on russia right afterwards? 2x coincidence?
37
Hircus
2022 Dec 28, 4:08pm
Hircus
2022 Dec 28, 4:08pm
Tenpoundbass says
Russia totally isnt telling europeans theyre gonna be cold and hungry if they keep supporting the anti russian war. No sir.
Is Russia destroying our food processing plants as well, and killing off Livestock herds, is Russia trying like hell to create mass starvation in Europe and the US?
People need to pull their heads out of Racheal Maddows asshole.
Russia totally isnt telling europeans theyre gonna be cold and hungry if they keep supporting the anti russian war. No sir.
38
Peter P
2022 Dec 28, 4:13pm
Peter P
2022 Dec 28, 4:13pm
Onvacation says
Global warming hacked their crew scheduling software?
Peter P says
Did Russia also hack Southwest and ruin my vacation plan?
No. Global warming did.
Global warming hacked their crew scheduling software?
39
FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden
2022 Dec 28, 4:17pm
Onvacation says
that was internalized racism
Peter P says
Did Russia also hack Southwest and ruin my vacation plan?
No. Global warming did.
that was internalized racism
40
Hircus
2022 Dec 28, 4:20pm
Hircus
2022 Dec 28, 4:20pm
Ceffer says
It could be intel agencies. I think they have motive too, just like russia does. We are at war, and this kinda stuff happens. Opponents threaten, flex on, and strike each other.
But the way you defend ole pootie pooh by saying hes the very least likely suspect just doesnt strike me as rational at all. Sounds like a position I would expect to see people take 1+ years ago, before the war started. Then it would make sense.
Well, in order, I suppose suspicion could be ranked as follows: 1. Swiss Ocatagon and Globalists/WEF 2. CIA, MI6 and Five Eyes etc. 3. Khazarian Mafia Babylonian Debt Slavers 4. Vatican and Jesuits 5.P3 Masons and Black Nobility 6. European and British Royals 7. Various psychotic 33'd degree depopulation Masons.
After eliminating all of those, one might begin to query about possible Russian influences. Happy Hunting!
It could be intel agencies. I think they have motive too, just like russia does. We are at war, and this kinda stuff happens. Opponents threaten, flex on, and strike each other.
But the way you defend ole pootie pooh by saying hes the very least likely suspect just doesnt strike me as rational at all. Sounds like a position I would expect to see people take 1+ years ago, before the war started. Then it would make sense.
41
Hircus
2022 Dec 28, 4:23pm
Hircus
2022 Dec 28, 4:23pm
Peter P says
Vlad says hi. He said this pic would brighten your day and tide you over for now.
Did Russia also hack Southwest and ruin my vacation plan?
Vlad says hi. He said this pic would brighten your day and tide you over for now.
42
Hircus
2022 Dec 28, 4:41pm
Hircus
2022 Dec 28, 4:41pm
ad says
You were right. They suspect whyte supremacist hate crimers who wanted to stop a trans event for the NC attack.
Democrats and its enforcer, the FBI, will conveniently blame this on "right wing terrorists" .
You were right. They suspect whyte supremacist hate crimers who wanted to stop a trans event for the NC attack.
43
Hircus
2022 Dec 28, 4:42pm
Hircus
2022 Dec 28, 4:42pm
komputodo says
Very compelling argument.
I don't...And not China either...Rachel Maddow probably does...and the played out sluts from the view too
Very compelling argument.
44
Ceffer
2022 Dec 28, 5:15pm
Ceffer
2022 Dec 28, 5:15pm
The Globalists and their installed henchmen in the foreign occupied foreign city state of Washington DC are already doing such a bang up job of destroying our country, I doubt Russia feels the need to lift a finger, except for routine spycraft, even in revenge for all of the military hardware and mercenaries to Ukraine. Russia regards the Globalists in Europe as the enemy, not the Republic per se.
45
mell
2022 Dec 28, 6:40pm
Onvacation says
Yep, global warming
Peter P says
Did Russia also hack Southwest and ruin my vacation plan?
No. Global warming did.
Yep, global warming
46
Onvacation
2022 Dec 28, 6:49pm
Onvacation
2022 Dec 28, 6:49pm
Hircus says
Do you really believe people who oppose our war against Russia love Putin? Do you think Ukraine was not doing corrupt deals with Biden and others in our government before Russia attacked?
Just curious where you're coming from.
I implicated their boyfriend vladimir.
Do you really believe people who oppose our war against Russia love Putin? Do you think Ukraine was not doing corrupt deals with Biden and others in our government before Russia attacked?
Just curious where you're coming from.
47
Onvacation
2022 Dec 28, 6:51pm
Onvacation
2022 Dec 28, 6:51pm
Hircus says
Yeah, it does.
The neoconservatives would have started this war years ago had Hillary won.
Whether or not russia is at fault / justified / innocent for the war has no bearing here.
Yeah, it does.
The neoconservatives would have started this war years ago had Hillary won.
49
Hircus
2022 Dec 30, 12:45pm
Hircus
2022 Dec 30, 12:45pm
Onvacation says
Please show me where I said that, or explain how you came to the idea that I said / implied / believe that. I'm confused how people could think I hold such positions from this thread.
Here's what I think: I think if you punch someone, you can expect them to punch back, and for an ongoing exchange of punches to follow. Are we not obviously in the midst of war with russia? Is it truly so incredibly far fetched that russia would throw a punch back at us? And yes, I absolutely think we are at war with russia, albeit its a weird one where we often try to strike and oppose each other maximally while sometimes minimizing visibility/accountability of our moves.
Who threw the first punch, or who was justified in punching, or who someone wants side xyz to win is just totally irrelevant to the fact the further punches are to be expected in war. Vlad obviously isnt some little ho who will let the usa/west push him around, yet some people here oddly refuse to consider he may stand up and strike/flex/warn his opposition?
I never said putin=good or putin=bad, and frankly, IMO its just totally besides the point when considering this threads question: discussion of "was it russia?". People should always be able to discuss reality, and getting counter striked in an escalating war is very possible.
I stated why I was making fun of people: some of them seem to have a knee jerk reaction where theyve been programmed to execute Tribalism2022() routine and immediately attempt to oppose, ridicule, smear, and attack anyone who dares to say something which they perceive as being negative about dear vlad, totally missing the forest for the trees in the process by refusing to consider that punches are exchanged in war. Some of the replies are really low quality too, offering little if any justification of their view.
Russia launched dozens (hundreds?) of missiles at ukraine yesterday. Will I now be attacked for acknowledging this? Do I "hate dear vlad" for noticing that he is actually fighting in the war?
Hircus says
I implicated their boyfriend vladimir.
Do you really believe people who oppose our war against Russia love Putin? Do you think Ukraine was not doing corrupt deals with Biden and others in our government before Russia attacked?
Please show me where I said that, or explain how you came to the idea that I said / implied / believe that. I'm confused how people could think I hold such positions from this thread.
Here's what I think: I think if you punch someone, you can expect them to punch back, and for an ongoing exchange of punches to follow. Are we not obviously in the midst of war with russia? Is it truly so incredibly far fetched that russia would throw a punch back at us? And yes, I absolutely think we are at war with russia, albeit its a weird one where we often try to strike and oppose each other maximally while sometimes minimizing visibility/accountability of our moves.
Who threw the first punch, or who was justified in punching, or who someone wants side xyz to win is just totally irrelevant to the fact the further punches are to be expected in war. Vlad obviously isnt some little ho who will let the usa/west push him around, yet some people here oddly refuse to consider he may stand up and strike/flex/warn his opposition?
I never said putin=good or putin=bad, and frankly, IMO its just totally besides the point when considering this threads question: discussion of "was it russia?". People should always be able to discuss reality, and getting counter striked in an escalating war is very possible.
I stated why I was making fun of people: some of them seem to have a knee jerk reaction where theyve been programmed to execute Tribalism2022() routine and immediately attempt to oppose, ridicule, smear, and attack anyone who dares to say something which they perceive as being negative about dear vlad, totally missing the forest for the trees in the process by refusing to consider that punches are exchanged in war. Some of the replies are really low quality too, offering little if any justification of their view.
Russia launched dozens (hundreds?) of missiles at ukraine yesterday. Will I now be attacked for acknowledging this? Do I "hate dear vlad" for noticing that he is actually fighting in the war?
50
richwicks
2022 Dec 30, 1:05pm
richwicks
2022 Dec 30, 1:05pm
Hircus says
Yes, because we've been punching Russia since at least 2000. Don't you realize that?
The Skripal's were OBVIOUSLY not poisoned by Novichok but that didn't stop our propaganda. Russia didn't invade S. Ossetia or start that conflict with Georgia, but our propaganda reported that. They were actually fighting terrorists in Syria, but we were funding them. We overthrew Ukraine, they didn't have a revolution. We exited the SALT treaties, and they abandoned it because we did. THEY blew up oil supply lines going from Syria to Turkey, we encouraged it, we were stealing oil.
We've been the instigators in all this, and by "we" I mean my corrupt, criminal, government.
How has any of this bullshit helped this country in ANY way? How has it helped our allies in Europe in ANY way? As far as I'm concerned our foreign policy is run by traitors working overtime to destroy this country.
Hircus says
None of this would have happened if the US didn't overthrow Ukraine in 2014.
The ideal resolution to this conflict, and the easy resolution, is if Zelenskyy is removed from power, the oligarchs that did this to Ukraine are removed from any power, and that relations between Russia and Europe will be fostered, and NATO will be abandoned. This advantages all parties involved.
All of this would have been avoidable if NATO wasn't constantly expanded and the US puppet leadership in Ukraine just enacted the Minsk Peace Accords. All this could have been trivially avoided, but the maniacs that run the US wanted precisely this.
original link
This is a link to the CEPA paper:
https://cepa.org/article/its-costing-peanuts-for-the-us-to-defeat-russia/
The lunatic sociopaths in power see this war as nothing but a win. They are either stupid, or insane - maybe both and I am fucking tired of these assholes being in power. They had to steal an election to stay in power. Clearly the population is not with them, but you strangely are. How does this help you, your family, your neighbors, anybody? Don't you have the capacity to see the big picture?
You can't recognize that the US started this conflict. It's... perplexing to me. Is it you really don't understand this, or are you deceiving people by pretending you don't understand that? 15 years ago, I thought people like you were just uneducated, but today, I suspect you're malicious and immoral.
Here's what I think: I think if you punch someone, you can expect them to punch back, and for an ongoing exchange of punches to follow. Are we not obviously in the midst of war with russia?
Yes, because we've been punching Russia since at least 2000. Don't you realize that?
The Skripal's were OBVIOUSLY not poisoned by Novichok but that didn't stop our propaganda. Russia didn't invade S. Ossetia or start that conflict with Georgia, but our propaganda reported that. They were actually fighting terrorists in Syria, but we were funding them. We overthrew Ukraine, they didn't have a revolution. We exited the SALT treaties, and they abandoned it because we did. THEY blew up oil supply lines going from Syria to Turkey, we encouraged it, we were stealing oil.
We've been the instigators in all this, and by "we" I mean my corrupt, criminal, government.
How has any of this bullshit helped this country in ANY way? How has it helped our allies in Europe in ANY way? As far as I'm concerned our foreign policy is run by traitors working overtime to destroy this country.
Hircus says
Russia launched dozens (hundreds?) of missiles at ukraine yesterday. Will I now be attacked for acknowledging this? Do I "hate dear vlad" for noticing that he is actually fighting in the war?
None of this would have happened if the US didn't overthrow Ukraine in 2014.
The ideal resolution to this conflict, and the easy resolution, is if Zelenskyy is removed from power, the oligarchs that did this to Ukraine are removed from any power, and that relations between Russia and Europe will be fostered, and NATO will be abandoned. This advantages all parties involved.
All of this would have been avoidable if NATO wasn't constantly expanded and the US puppet leadership in Ukraine just enacted the Minsk Peace Accords. All this could have been trivially avoided, but the maniacs that run the US wanted precisely this.
original link
This is a link to the CEPA paper:
https://cepa.org/article/its-costing-peanuts-for-the-us-to-defeat-russia/
The lunatic sociopaths in power see this war as nothing but a win. They are either stupid, or insane - maybe both and I am fucking tired of these assholes being in power. They had to steal an election to stay in power. Clearly the population is not with them, but you strangely are. How does this help you, your family, your neighbors, anybody? Don't you have the capacity to see the big picture?
You can't recognize that the US started this conflict. It's... perplexing to me. Is it you really don't understand this, or are you deceiving people by pretending you don't understand that? 15 years ago, I thought people like you were just uneducated, but today, I suspect you're malicious and immoral.
51
Onvacation
2022 Dec 30, 1:19pm
Onvacation
2022 Dec 30, 1:19pm
Hircus says
Hircus says
Do you? Trying to understand where you're coming from. You talk like one of those so called "Ukie fluffers".
Not everyone that is against our interfering in Ukraine is Putin's bitch.
I implicated their boyfriend vladimir.
Hircus says
Do I "hate dear vlad" for noticing that he is actually fighting in the war?
Do you? Trying to understand where you're coming from. You talk like one of those so called "Ukie fluffers".
Not everyone that is against our interfering in Ukraine is Putin's bitch.
52
Hircus
2022 Dec 30, 3:03pm
Hircus
2022 Dec 30, 3:03pm
I'm mostly indifferent about Putin. Reason is I don't think I personally know enough about geopolitics to make an decent judgement of him. My impression is I kinda like him, and view him as the underdog fighting goliath, but I know that is superficial. He seems like he loves Russia and wants to see it flourish and preserve their culture, and doesn't want to bend the knee to the mighty west. The west seems to gradually oppose him more and more starting since a bit after he took power. He seems to be trying to reassemble some of the lost soviet power, and the west seems to get scared and want to oppose him in it, and maybe even by tricking/forcing him into wars to make him look bad.
Many people on this forum surely know more about geopol than I do, but I also don't think many, or more likely any, truly know what they're talking about. It's an incredibly complicated and nuanced topic and I'm doubtful many people here or elsewhere actually have the right sources of info to come to accurate conclusions about things such as who is justified in doing xyz, what the true objectives of event abc was, what is the likely result if 123 happens, and so on. I think a lot of stuff goes on behind the scenes and it influences events, but very few people are privy to this critical info that factors into the "why" certain events happen. And I think in this topic in particular, the public has very little insight into the critical behind the scenes info. And I think it's a big problem, but it's also reality. I just don't think you can expect to understand a book if every other word is blanked out. Not that I'm against people doing their best to understand, or having opinions, just saying.
So I somewhat emphasize my interests more towards tangibles.
Onvacation says
Why would you say that? Where did I say or imply anything about support/lack of support/whatever of ukraine means that you're Putin's bitch?
Many people on this forum surely know more about geopol than I do, but I also don't think many, or more likely any, truly know what they're talking about. It's an incredibly complicated and nuanced topic and I'm doubtful many people here or elsewhere actually have the right sources of info to come to accurate conclusions about things such as who is justified in doing xyz, what the true objectives of event abc was, what is the likely result if 123 happens, and so on. I think a lot of stuff goes on behind the scenes and it influences events, but very few people are privy to this critical info that factors into the "why" certain events happen. And I think in this topic in particular, the public has very little insight into the critical behind the scenes info. And I think it's a big problem, but it's also reality. I just don't think you can expect to understand a book if every other word is blanked out. Not that I'm against people doing their best to understand, or having opinions, just saying.
So I somewhat emphasize my interests more towards tangibles.
Onvacation says
Not everyone that is against our interfering in Ukraine is Putin's bitch.
Why would you say that? Where did I say or imply anything about support/lack of support/whatever of ukraine means that you're Putin's bitch?
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I think it's odd that "ukraine" did drone strikes deep into russia a couple days later. I thought up until now, they had mostly refrained from attacking russia beyond their borders, so them doing such a move marks an escalation. Could be coincidence, but I think this might be the evolution of our weird proxy war, where we werent "officially" at war w/ russia, but in reality we are. They showed us that we can be touched deep in our mainland, so we showed them the same.
I think some months back in this year I read that there was unusual drone activity near US resources, like power plants and electric substations. Seems to me an enemy could do serious damage to us by attacking our infrastructure from within our own country. Strap a bomb to a drone and fly it into infrastructure. They dont even need to have a person nearby to visually fly it - they can easily control drones remotely via long range directed wifi or lte connection, making it really hard for their agent who places the drone on the ground to get caught.
But a bomb on a drone is more state-actor style, and obvious. This current attack was bullets, which conveniently allows the usa to blame it as a one off angry employee, even if they know it wasnt. Bullets do not force the us to declare war on russia. This attack was probably in response to something we recently did, and IMO a move like this seems like a warning designed to make us tread more carefully. A snake rattling its tail before a strike.
Of course I'm just speculating here. Sure, it could have been a disgruntled employee who knew what things to shoot at to cause a 3-5 day power outage in winter. Or maybe even a rando just shot stuff and got lucky to hit critical things. But media says the shooter knew what they were doing, although they have no suspects and no motive to report. I dont think these types of attacks are common, and the timing is very suspect IMO. They've been talking about how crazy vulnerable our electric grid is for decades now. It's a glass house.