patrick.net

This good? Seems so. I use it for cooking.

I don't trust any seed oils at all, first because plants generally evolved to poison animals that crush their seeds. Fruit is the bait to get you to swallow the seed whole. If the seed doesn't make it through you, then the plant loses.

Secondly, the extraction process is usually very toxic itself.

https://www.zeroacre.com/blog/are-seed-oils-toxic

Canola (rapeseed) oil, corn oil, cottonseed oil, grapeseed oil, rice bran oil, soybean oil, safflower oil, and sunflower oil are the eight worst seed oils you may want to avoid. Average consumption has increased 20 times in the past hundred years, which correlates to increased rates of obesity, cancer, and heart disease

Patrick says

I don't trust any seed oils at all

I presume that olive oil comes from the olive itself and not the pit?

Correct. Olive oil is pressed from the flesh of the olive.

https://babylonbee.com/news/locals-in-galilee-rejoice-as-jesus-turns-seed-oil-into-beef-tallow

Locals in Mumbai have a hissy screaming fit as the cow worshippers go on a rampage.

Have you seen Food and Drug report on cinnamon? Consumer Reports did a test on about 40 brands and found that all but about 6 had unacceptable levels of lead. About 11 were too high in lead content to be safe at all, while 18 would be dangerous above 1/4 teaspoon per day. The Whole Foods 365 Organic brand was the best, and it was safe up to 16 teaspoons per day. How does lead get into cinnamon anyway? I want cinnamon to be like my gasoline - lead free.

Ginger and turmeric are also sometimes contaminated with lead, sometimes from the soil in which they are grown.

There are home tests for lead. I wonder what they would show for these spices.

Everyone is allergic to gluten because there's 100X more gluten in factory bread.

5000 years killed enough children via the "failure to thrive" route. It's an established fact (Oh, so sorry, let me get my references in order) that peoples in regions where grains were historically the primary nourishment are more tolerant of gluten. Northern Europeans, on the other hand, are more prone to gluten intolerance.

It all depends on how many generations of infants needed to die to "cull the herd" so that gluten was largely tolerated in the population at large.

Gluten intolerance is real, and it is exacerbated by industrial baking processes.

Gluten content has mostly remained steady, but the composition shifted towards glutenin. You can always eat rye and sourdough if you think you're intolerant, both very healthy.

HeadSet says

up to 16 teaspoons per day. How does lead get into cinnamon anyway? I want cinnamon to be like my gasoline - lead free.

I have this Wagu roast going in the slow cooker right now with some beef stock I made over a year ago I had in the deep freeze. This is gonna be some beefy fatty shiite!

The stock I made for Ramen so no vegis or anything, pure beef stuff. Lots of gelatin. I didn't thin it out much at all. Perhaps after it's done cooking in an about an hour and a half. Ten hours total. I was busy in the morning but at least had time after lunch to give it a good all around sear before the cook:



That was a text message to a pal or I would have framed it better for Patnet.

edit: I don't know why my quotes are usually wrong, perhaps the brave browser doesn't work with patnet very well. But I was quoting Pat's bab-bee post with this link:

https://babylonbee.com/news/locals-in-galilee-rejoice-as-jesus-turns-seed-oil-into-beef-tallow

Not headset...

stereotomy says

5000 years killed enough children via the "failure to thrive" route. It's an established fact (Oh, so sorry, let me get my references in order) that peoples in regions where grains were historically the primary nourishment are more tolerant of gluten. Northern Europeans, on the other hand, are more prone to gluten intolerance.

It all depends on how many generations of infants needed to die to "cull the herd" so that gluten was largely tolerated in the population at large.

Gluten intolerance is real, and it is exacerbated by industrial baking processes.

The switch to cereals is thought to have a correlation to European's skin whitening to combat lack of vitamin-D. Lots of people apparently died in that bottleneck as well. (also kids I think?)

Michael Jackson figured out how to do it by other means but I really don't know much about that.

Maga_Chaos_Monkey says

The switch to cereals is thought to have a correlation to European's skin whitening to combat lack of vitamin-D.

That's interesting. The Irish have the whitest skin of any ethnic group, and the highest rate of gluten intolerance.

Irish soda bread is so crumbly because Irish wheat has so little gluten to hold it together, because of the weak sun up there.

Patrick says

Maga_Chaos_Monkey says

The switch to cereals is thought to have a correlation to European's skin whitening to combat lack of vitamin-D.

That's interesting. The Irish have the whitest skin of any ethnic group, and the highest rate of gluten intolerance.

Irish soda bread is so crumbly because Irish wheat has so little gluten to hold it together, because of the weak sun up there.

Did not know that. Now I want to try it.

Very tasty stuff imho. I like the kind with caraway seeds, but some people don't.

Patrick says

I don't trust any seed oils at all, first because plants generally evolved to poison animals that crush their seeds. Fruit is the bait to get you to swallow the seed whole. If the seed doesn't make it through you, then the plant loses.

Secondly, the extraction process is usually very toxic itself.

I agree with you on the extraction process, however there are ways to extract oils from seeds safely.

But with regards to plants evolving to poison animals that crush their seeds, well that is just plain stupid. Sure some plant seeds are poisonous. But get real! Some plant seeds are also medicinal and in fact if we don’t eat plants we basically cannot be healthy!!!

Peas, beans, rice, corn, wheat, oats, barley, peanuts, sweet almonds, cashews, walnuts, these are all seeds. Sure unnaturally extracting oils, or eating excessive amounts of these foods may be unhealthy, but don’t think for one minute that seeds are inherently poison.

Everything is a poison if taken in a large enough dose. Even drinking too much water can cause intoxication and death. So no, plants did not evolve to poison animals that crush their seeds.

From the Legend of Baggar Vance movie....

Bagger Vance: That's a sad story, Mr. Junuh.

Junuh: Yes, it is.

Bagger Vance: And that's just about the dumbest thing ... I heard any fool say ... ever.”

^^ agreed. Just don't use highly refined / processed seed oils.

PeopleUnited says

almonds, cashews, walnuts, these are all seeds. Sure unnaturally extracting oils, or eating excessive amounts of these foods may be unhealthy, but don’t think for one minute that seeds are inherently poison.

Bitter almonds and cashews are poison if eaten raw. They are inherently poison unless processed.

PeopleUnited says

Peas, beans, rice, corn, wheat, oats, barley, peanuts, almonds, cashews, walnuts, these are all seeds.

Most of those do not have fruits.

My point about seeds is that if there is a fruit, the seed is generally poisonous.

Patrick says

My point about seeds is that if there is a fruit, the seed is generally poisonous.

Yes, like peaches and apples.

HeadSet says

Patrick says

My point about seeds is that if there is a fruit, the seed is generally poisonous.

Yes, like peaches and apples.

But they also have medicinal properties, there are similar issues with raw beans etc. And not all seeds are poisonous. I generally eat fruits with seeds unless they are too big such as peach, avocado etc. Also the rhine is generally beneficial such as lemon or watermelon rhine and more

Patrick says

My point about seeds is that if there is a fruit, the seed is generally poisonous.

The definition of a fruit as you referred to is a ripened ovary or receptacle depending on the kind of plant/fruit. But your point about seeds being poisonous while true in some cases, is generally irrelevant to the seed oils concern because we don’t use poisonous seeds as a source of food/oil.

Watermelon, oranges, raspberries, strawberries, tomatoes, peppers, kiwi, cucumbers, are some examples of fruits. The seeds won’t kill. And they also are not used as oil sources.

Furthermore, and more relevant to the topic, Peanuts, coconut, olives, avocado, and sunflower are just a few seed oils used safely for hundreds of years. The devil is in the details not in the seed. If processed safely the oil is safe. If not, avoid them.

It's still true that if you crush any seed, the plant loses because it cannot reproduce from that seed. So evolution selects for poisons that punish animals that crush the seeds, in general.

PeopleUnited says

Watermelon, oranges, raspberries, strawberries, tomatoes, peppers, kiwi, cucumbers, are some examples of fruits. The seeds won’t kill.

Those seeds go right through you as a rule, but if you were to chew them up and eat a lot of them, they are all likely to cause problems.

Olive oil and avocado oil are made from the fruit, not the seed.

Then there is counter-evolution by people, who for millennia selected versions of plant seeds that did not make them sick. For example, wild almonds are pretty toxic. 25 wild almonds could kill a person. But by selecting the non-bitter ones over time, people bred almonds that are fine for people to eat in large quantities.

Wild beans were also toxic but were bred over time to be safe for people.

The original corn has anti-nutrients, as do wild peanuts.

Patrick says

It's still true that if you crush any seed, the plant loses because it cannot reproduce from that seed.

Life is not a competition, and a seed dying is not losing, it is a sacrifice.

If life is a competition, and if there are no rules from a higher authority, then every opportunity to defeat the competition by any means necessary is justified and even admirable. Imagine a world where survival of the fittest is a value system. In order to survive every violence against your perceived competition would be admissible and encouraged.

This is the main reason I challenged your assertion that seed oils are dangerous. You justified your belief in this doctrine based on erroneous information about the evolution of plants. You claim that plants evolved to poison animals that crush their seeds. But the reality is that plants, including in some cases their seeds and fruits, were created to provide humans and animals things like food and shelter. Evolution = change through time/generations. Plants have changed some since their creation, but their purpose is still to provide food, shelter and energy sources for humans and animals.

PeopleUnited says

Plants have changed some since their creation, but their purpose is still to provide food, shelter and energy sources for humans and animals.

If that were true, plants would never have thorns nor would we have toxic plants like nightshade, milkweed, and most mushrooms. Grab a stinging nettle and tell me that plant's purpose is to provide food for animals. Now humans can defeat these plant defense mechanisms like cooking nettles in soup or husbanding poisonous beans to a form safe to eat, but in their original form those plants are not suitable food.

Stringing nettles are medicinal. The thorns on other bushes might hurt you, but they help provide a safe place for other animals to hide and survive. I said food AND shelter for animals and people. Not all plants are food for humans, but all plants are food for something. And some provide shelter and energy sources.

Interesting tidbits:

Stinging nettles, like dandelions, were brought to America from Europe as food by some idiot and are now everywhere.
Nettles have stings exactly because they are very nutritious and would get eaten by deer otherwise.
As a general rule, plants may have either thorns or poisons, but not both, because they don't need both.

Before the fall on Adam and Eve, there were no thorns or poisons.

I see the Genesis stories as metaphor, not literally true. So I can accept evolution and still see a lot of meaning in the stories.

Many fruit seeds as well as vegetables and legumes contain ingredients that can be considered defense mechanisms and unhealthy in larger quantities. That's why I'm a big fan of fruits, they contain all the good stuff in maximum bioavailability while pretty much zero toxic ingredients. Fruits have been modestly vilified by the low carb / keto movement and some say they were only available in season and thus consumed in moderation, but I say you almost cannot eat too much whole fruit. Probably the most important part of a healthy diet imo, and delicious.

Patrick says

I see the Genesis stories as metaphor, not literally true.

You are entitled to your own beliefs. But it is guaranteed that one day you will change your mind. Genesis answers most of the questions a person should ask themselves.

https://answersingenesis.org/

https://x.com/aigkenham/status/1905572977011233142?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1905572977011233142%7Ctwgr%5E7903d04e336f8962091c277762e45e0bb2d1151e%7Ctwcon%5Es1&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fanswersingenesis.org%2F