patrick.net

AD says

but during the summer the humidity usually is 55% if the temp is in lower 90s so the heat index usually peaks around 100

The historical weather records say otherwise. It's just like the rest of Florida and the Gulf Coast. Swimmin' in your shorts and drippin' like a mop, in Summer.

It's like other cities along the North shore of the Gulf of America: Mobile, Galveston, and NOLA, not San Diego. Nobody ever says "Wow, it's a dry heat here in Alabama in July"

AmericanKulak says

AD says

but during the summer the humidity usually is 55% if the temp is in lower 90s so the heat index usually peaks around 100

The historical weather records say otherwise. It's just like the rest of Florida and the Gulf Coast. Swimmin' in your shorts and drippin' like a mop, in Summer.

It's like other cities along the North shore of the Gulf of America: Mobile, Galveston, and NOLA, not San Diego. Nobody ever says "Wow, it's a dry heat here in Alabama in July"

Same goes for east coast like New Jersey, except you can comfortably go to the beach from beginning of March to end of November in the Florida panhandle.

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from June 2020 Reader's Digest page 73

I'm surprised Florida panhandle is average as it's beach weather from March 1 to November 30 and its great for kayaking and boating.

I'm not surprised about Illinois being below average.

AD says

March 1 to November 30 and its great for kayaking and boating.

And sweating your balls off just to walk to the mailbox within 2 minutes of leaving the A/C hahaha

AmericanKulak says

AD says

March 1 to November 30 and its great for kayaking and boating.

And sweating your balls off just to walk to the mailbox within 2 minutes of leaving the A/C hahaha

I like that though. Better than feeling like an oven. Golfed once in 110ºF temps in AZ and it was miserable. I'll take FL any day of the year. I wear long sleeves and pants in warm weather so the bugs won't bother me in humid location FL or an IL summer day.

San Diego area has the best weather in the country. Winter or summer. I like FL, though have never done August or September due to hurricanes. May I think is the best time in the Panhandle. Water is warming up, temps are solid and not generally humid.

WookieMan says

AmericanKulak says

AD says

March 1 to November 30 and its great for kayaking and boating.

And sweating your balls off just to walk to the mailbox within 2 minutes of leaving the A/C hahaha

I like that though. Better than feeling like an oven. Golfed once in 110ºF temps in AZ and it was miserable. I'll take FL any day of the year. I wear long sleeves and pants in warm weather so the bugs won't bother me in humid location FL or an IL summer day.

San Diego area has the best weather in the country. Winter or summer. I like FL, though have never done August or September due to hurricanes. May I think is the best time in the Panhandle. Water is warming up, temps are solid and not generally humid.

Exactly Wookie, you will not sweat your balls off by not wearing long sleeve cotton shirts and jeans

Wear this along with nylon (i.e., BREATHABLE) gym pants

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mens-Athletic-Performance-Shirt-Long-Sleeve-Light-Blue-Mahi-M/215970851

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WookieMan says

I like that though. Better than feeling like an oven. Golfed once in 110ºF temps in AZ and it was miserable. I'll take FL any day of the year. I wear long sleeves and pants in warm weather so the bugs won't bother me in humid location FL or an IL summer day.

Exact opposite. I'll take an oven over a sauna every day and twice on Sunday.

Shade actually helps in low humidity.

Just like I prefer the Air Fryer over the Sogginator (my name for Microwaves)

AmericanKulak says

Another one:
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3802-Sunbeam-Ct-Merritt-Island-FL-32953/43404282_zpid/?mmlb=g%2C13

11/25/2013 Sold
$193,500
-3.2%
$98/sqft

2/14/2023 Listed for sale
$514,900
+166.1%
$261/sqft
Source: DBAMLS #1105834 Report a problem

It sold for $450,000 in April 2023 before the housing market started to freeze up

It sold for $134,000 in 2000, and was built in 1997

Went up in value about 5.5% annually from 2000 to 2023 :-/

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AmericanKulak says

Just like I prefer the Air Fryer over the Sogginator (my name for Microwaves)

In agreement. That's for food though. I don't microwave a thing for myself. As a human I'd rather sweat than be put in an oven.

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this 3 bedroom , 2.5 bath, 1 car garage unit in Panama City Beach currently rents for $1895 which is same price it may have rented in 2021
rents have steadied or have dropped some which helps the working class like the hospitality and service workers on the beach

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1609-Annabellas-Way-Panama-City-Beach-FL-32407/87635669_zpid/

My forecast is townhomes in Panama City Beach will drop about 20 to 25% from their all time highs set in early 2022, which are almost the same price level at the peak of the 2003-2006 Bill Clinton Housing Bubble.

............

Florida Housing Market Mirroring 2008 Crash—Real Estate Analyst

https://www.newsweek.com/florida-housing-mirroring-2008-crash-analyst-2067158

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I researched "Hathaway Luxury Apartments" in Panama City Beach (within 1 mile of Hathaway Bridge). It's a huge area where they cleared countless amounts of southern pine trees, as it looks like at least 200 apartment units will be built.

The agent for the Hathaway Luxury Apartment LLC is
Marvin Setness - Controller - RD Offutt Company

I wonder why a major potato company (RD Offutt Company from North Dakota) is an apartment developer in Panama City Beach 😕

But they stopped construction about 4 months ago after they cleared the land, perhaps waiting for the rental market to improve, and/or for interest rates to drop.

Rents seem to remain at 2021 or 2022 levels for at least townhomes on the beach and I don't trust the mega apartment complexes like Urban Blu as they are very deceitful.

US Department of Justice is suing Real Page which is used by apartment complexes to collude on rent.

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WookieMan says

In agreement. That's for food though. I don't microwave a thing for myself. As a human I'd rather sweat than be put in an oven.

Microwave devotion is a boomer thing mostly, maybe a few Xers who grew up with that as the primary cooking method. I think it's because it came out when they were kids and is always the "Hot New Thing in the Kitchen" in their mind.

I've seen Boomers look at me aghast when I've not had a microwave. And as if I didn't understand I could get one at the Thrift Shop. No, I just don't use it much, I have one now pretty much as a hotbox to keep food in if I'm making a multi-course meal.

"What about boiling water"? A $20 new electric kettle does the same thing faster, safer, larger quantity.

An unplugged microwave is a good place to toss cell phones and small laptops in case of an EMP attack.

If there was an emp attack, wouldn’t it fry the cell towers and wifi networks anyway? Only hope would be starlink type orbiting internet, but that is assuming that you still have a power source to charge your devices.

PeopleUnited says

If there was an emp attack, wouldn’t it fry the cell towers and wifi networks anyway? Only hope would be starlink type orbiting internet, but that is assuming that you still have a power source to charge your devices.

Starlink depends on computer servers in Bastrop, Texas. Use analog systems like a mid 1970s car (or earlier), and HAM radios that are not digital. Wish I had a Volkswagen Beetle built in 1970s.

AD says

I researched "Hathaway Luxury Apartments" in Panama City Beach (within 1 mile of Hathaway Bridge). It's a huge area where they cleared countless amounts of southern pine trees, as it looks like at least 200 apartment units will be built.

The agent for the Hathaway Luxury Apartment LLC is
Marvin Setness - Controller - RD Offutt Company

I wonder why a major potato company (RD Offutt Company from North Dakota) is an apartment developer in Panama City Beach 😕

But they stopped construction about 4 months ago after they cleared the land, perhaps waiting for the rental market to improve, and/or for interest rates to drop.

Rents seem to remain at 2021 or 2022 levels for at least townhomes on the beach and I don't trust the mega apartment complexes like Urban Blu as they are very deceitful.

US Department of Justice is suing Real Page which is used by apartment complexes to collude on rent.

.

My wife is a property manager and they conduct “Market Surveys” to keep up on pricing. These are phone calls and physical tours of neighboring apartment complexes to see what their rent and amenities are. I’m more than sure this is a tool used to collude also. I fail to see how the colluding could be stopped.

Glock-n-Load says

My wife is a property manager and they conduct “Market Surveys” to keep up on pricing. These are phone calls and physical tours of neighboring apartment complexes to see what their rent and amenities are. I’m more than sure this is a tool used to collude also. I fail to see how the colluding could be stopped.

Market research is not collusion. Collusion is when a group of landlords get together and agree on pricing.

HeadSet says

Glock-n-Load says

My wife is a property manager and they conduct “Market Surveys” to keep up on pricing. These are phone calls and physical tours of neighboring apartment complexes to see what their rent and amenities are. I’m more than sure this is a tool used to collude also. I fail to see how the colluding could be stopped.

Market research is not collusion. Collusion is when a group of landlords get together and agree on pricing.

And how do you think they do it? Maybe it isn’t explicit but, it can surely be accomplished like this. Tell me why they would do these market surveys then instead of just running their own businesses according to their own books/accounting? I imagine also, that collusion is very difficult to prove.

Glock-n-Load says

I imagine also, that collusion is very difficult to prove.

You'd need smoking gun evidence likely to prove antitrust behavior like collusion on depressing wages within a sector or industry, or collusion on rent prices.

I guess hidden camera video would be that, and doubt there would be a paper trail like emails.

Glock-n-Load says

Tell me why they would do these market surveys then instead of just running their own businesses according to their own books/accounting?

Prices are set by what the market will bear, not internal costs. When I priced my rental houses I looked at what others were advertising for similar places.

And the Fed tracks rental prices not buy buying stats from Apartments.com, Zillow, Rental Agencies, etc. but by calling homeloaners who haven't rented in 10-20-30 years or looked at local rentals in a decade, and asking them what they'd pay for their own place as a renter. They don't ask current renters, either.

"Well shucks, after I had two kids and brought a house here in Springfield in 2011, we were paying about $1200/month for a 3 bed, 2 bath ranch. So I guess I'd pay $1400 today in 2025."

In case you were wondering why the CPI for housing is ridiculously low versus reality.

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This is why Panama City is betting on tourism, and one major positive is its beach roads are around 11 foot above sea level , which is higher than South Floridas (averaging 4 feet).

Panama City Beach tourism includes a very large Tootsies (worlds largest honky tonk) at the old Spinnakers nightclub as well as so many other venues and attractions like eco tourism (dolphin and sea turtles, fishing on the beach, etc) and its state parks.

It is gearing toward being an affordable Florida vacation and alternative to Orlando / Disney World and Miami Beach, AND for those family vacationers who want to be able to drive to Florida within a 14 hours drive of as far away as Chicago suburbs.

https://nypost.com/2025/05/11/lifestyle/florida-dad-craig-stowell-talks-about-1400-family-disney-world-trip/

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HeadSet says

Glock-n-Load says

Tell me why they would do these market surveys then instead of just running their own businesses according to their own books/accounting?

Prices are set by what the market will bear, not internal costs. When I priced my rental houses I looked at what others were advertising for similar places.

exactly! savings are never passed on to the buyer. chinese shit is cheap, yet our prices are sky high.

AmericanKulak says

Microwave

I just use mine to heat up a coffee cup of water for my instant coffee.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/real-estate/article-14708061/southern-state-housing-market-real-estate-crash.html

Southern state residents 'desperate to escape' but homes won't sell as crash looms

Panic selling is setting in, with residents spooked by skyrocketing HOA fees, especially in the wake of the 2021 Surfside condo collapse, as well as soaring insurance premiums.

zzyzzx says

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/real-estate/article-14708061/southern-state-housing-market-real-estate-crash.html

Southern state residents 'desperate to escape' but homes won't sell as crash looms

Panic selling is setting in, with residents spooked by skyrocketing HOA fees, especially in the wake of the 2021 Surfside condo collapse, as well as soaring insurance premiums.

Yeah this is true for South Florida for the old high rises. Florida passed or is going to pass legislation to try to alleviate this.

This may have a spill over effect to other housing like townhomes and two floor condos.

Not seeing this a factor in Panama City Beach and panhandle for various reasons as those beach front condos do not have same environmental challenges like Surfside Miami; one reason is the panhandle beach front is at least 10 feet above sea level.

For many, they have a lot of equity in those Miami beach front condos so they'll take a reverse mortgage on them to live in them.

Also a major increase in demand for restoration of those condos will result in an increase in qualified contractors to work on them; this may result in lower prices for the HOAs.

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look on Zillow at 8111 Annabellas Ct and 8113 Annabellas Ct in Panama City Beach , they are selling below their 2006 and 2007 price levels , and 8113 is selling below its 2022 sales price :-(

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/8111-Annabellas-Ct-Panama-City-Beach-FL-32407/81779764_zpid/

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/8113-Annabellas-Ct-Panama-City-Beach-FL-32407/112794721_zpid/

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AD says

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look on Zillow at 8111 Annabellas Ct and 8113 Annabellas Ct in Panama City Beach , they are selling below their 2006 and 2007 price levels , and 8113 is selling below its 2022 sales price :-(

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/8111-Annabellas-Ct-Panama-City-Beach-FL-32407/81779764_zpid/

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/8113-Annabellas-Ct-Panama-City-Beach-FL-32407/112794721_zpid/

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Wow, did that first one really sell for $53k back in 2012? The discounts were that extreme? It had sold for $229k in 07.

Living on the beach is becoming perilous when it comes to insurance. I lived on saltwater in Tarpon Springs. 180 ft on the water. Thanks to Maxine Waters’ flood bill the projected flood insurance went from an affordable amount to $45000 a year. I got the hell outta Dodge and moved inland 20 miles from Ocala. Now Ocala has been growing exponentially, highest in the state. Nightmare developing for the townies. But it does seem single family homes sales have slowed…

Glock-n-Load says

AD says

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look on Zillow at 8111 Annabellas Ct and 8113 Annabellas Ct in Panama City Beach , they are selling below their 2006 and 2007 price levels , and 8113 is selling below its 2022 sales price :-(

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/8111-Annabellas-Ct-Panama-City-Beach-FL-32407/81779764_zpid/

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/8113-Annabellas-Ct-Panama-City-Beach-FL-32407/112794721_zpid/

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Wow, did that first one really sell for $53k back in 2012? The discounts were that extreme? It had sold for $229k in 07.

Here in Silicon Valley, the land is what appreciates. Structures appreciate somewhat because the ever-increasing government requirements mean construction increases somewhat as well — just nothing compared to the land. Appreciation due to increased costs of new construction means structure at least keeps up with inflation.

A condo in a not-particularly-desireable part of Florida? Land not really appreciating. Structure not appreciating because building costs are not appreciating (thanks at least in part to DeSantis). In fact, the structure is going to depreciate as it gets older and needs repairs. Add to all of that potential massive insurance cost increases as an unexpected expense and you can get the result you see.

I had to rub my eyes. In 2021 I was looking for a 2 bed and they were all $1900. $2100 for the new apartments.

Now, I see homeloaners and ex-BNBers trying to rent their townhouse or 3 Bed (1960s converted, so no garage), 1.5 for $1600 and laughing.

The new multifamilies are offering 2 months free rent at $1400 for 900-1100 sq ft 2-3 bedrooms.

Knock 'em down.

Glock-n-Load says

Wow, did that first one really sell for $53k back in 2012? The discounts were that extreme? It had sold for $229k in 07.

Yes after the Bill Clinton-housing crash of 2007-20010 it was essentially a once in a lifetime jackpot for some landlord investors in Annabellas Townhomes and other townhome HOAs in Panama City Beach

a lot knew this was going to go down when they were giving out mortgages like candy to unqualified or subprime mortgagees

this time there is no subprime mortgage crisis and I'm thinking prices will slowly decrease or hold steady while Panama City Beach household income increases by at least 2.5% over the next 3 to 5 years ; this is the consensus among the county economic development alliance

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SharkyP says

. I got the hell outta Dodge and moved inland 20 miles from Ocala

yeah, 1 to 5 miles within the Florida shore and you are in the "wind pool"

once you get 15 miles or more away then you see a drop off in insurance premium

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SunnyvaleCA says

A condo in a not-particularly-desireable part of Florida? Land not really appreciating. Structure not appreciating because building costs are not appreciating (thanks at least in part to DeSantis). In fact, the structure is going to depreciate as it gets older and needs repairs. Add to all of that potential massive insurance cost increases as an unexpected expense and you can get the result you see.

I think DeSantis signed into law to make it easier on condos that are more than 3 stories high. And various AI tools show Florida property insurance to remain flat or decrease this year.

I've heard from real estate agents there is an increased demand for townhomes like Annabellas Townhomes from investors and full time condo residents.

A lot of the condos on Panama City Beach like Hathaway Townhomes and Annabellas Townhomes were built well after the Hurricane Andrew legislation, so that is what makes them not as expensive for HO-3 and HO-6 insurance.

We had Citizen Insurance (a Florida state government run insurance) inspect our homes like check the hurricane clips or straps in the attic as far as ensuring due diligence.

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AmericanKulak says

I had to rub my eyes. In 2021 I was looking for a 2 bed and they were all $1900. $2100 for the new apartments.

Now, I see homeloaners and ex-BNBers trying to rent their townhouse or 3 Bed (1960s converted, so no garage), 1.5 for $1600 and laughing.

The new multifamilies are offering 2 months free rent at $1400 for 900-1100 sq ft 2-3 bedrooms.

Knock 'em down.

Yep, every asset will likely return to the mean

I think that means go back 15 years and examine rent per square foot and it should only increase by about 3% annually in Panama City Beach

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I think the fire sale of 8113 Annabellas Ct in Panama City Beach is using the below site to sell

https://www.flatfee.com/

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