patrick.net

PanicanDemoralizer says

Nothing makes insurance costs drop faster than making it optional.

Obamacare really did a job.

In CA an HOA needs dishonest people insurance, often in the millions, to "protect" against embezzlement. This is similar to shoplifting insurance except for that the hoas don't have any pull on the premiums as it's mandated. Back in the days you would have flogged and possibly hanged the looter so that the recurrence was so minimal that no insurance was ever needed. Even with the lax criminal laws significant embezzlement is rare and can get caught early these days with modern tech/automation. But there's no escaping the hefty premiums and the insurance makes out like a fat cat.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Oh jeez, give it up. You'll never get the best in a disagreement with a person who already knows everything about everything.

Name one thing? Name one thing I'm wrong about. Oklahoma prices are not going down. My prices are going up. Coastal areas and/or urban areas in SOME places inland are in decline. Does that make you guys feel better for not owning a home? I own a house. I get why you guys are here. Rent vs. Own. Jealousy is a bitch.

Also no evidence of anything. No link. AD at least posts Florida information for his area. You guys post nothing as far as data. You guys are wrong because you can't be. You provide nothing to the conversation. It's a kindergarten conversation and i think I'm out on this one and will ignore this thread. Can't deal with stupid and no data.

WookieMan says

Does that make you guys feel better for not owning a home? I own a house. I get why you guys are here. Rent vs. Own. Jealousy is a bitch.

WookieMan says

Jealousy is a bitch.

Jealousy has nothing to do with your poor command basic comparative logic.

Just heard that Florida Realtors are starting to refuse unrealistic seller's listings, like people trying to pawn off 1950s concrete block ranches in meh neighborhoods at $300k.

The reason given was it's $500 just for photography and a cleanup, not including staging. Nobody is going to pay $300k for a 1100 sq ft with no garage/carport, old fashioned accordion door closets (which really can't be expanded), beige toilet and tub, and ancient carpet where you can see where the bed and sofa was for 30 years...

... when they can buy 1500 sq ft all new construction with a garage for a couple of $10k more AND get a two-year incentive on the rate from a builder. Not to mention the roof and HVAC are brand new and under warranty. Alot of these older houses were very poorly converted to central air with serious wet and dust problems in the vents.

No walk-in closets is fine when you're retired or a snowbird and only bringing fair weather clothes. It's not okay when you plan to live there for decades, esp. with a family, and you can't store papers, albums, kid's drawings, and such in a 90F 80% humidity garage. And of course there is no basement. I had a copy of Camp of the Saints before it got to be $100+ for a copy, and I accidentially left it at my mothers. She put it in her outdoor locker and it's greener and more moldy than an SJW's hair in just a year. Cover is the consistency of an abandoned aquarium and most of the pages are illegible.

.

Just read Florida is now attracting skilled professionals (to compensate for end of Baby Boomer migration to Florida)

https://www.mypanhandle.com/news/florida-leads-u-s-in-skilled-workforce-attraction-and-growth/

.

I wrote about some proposals that were being floated about DeSantis doing away with property taxes as a way to help homeowners cope with rising costs of owning property. Well, sounds like they are getting more serious. However, unless government spending is cut and it never is, taxes will rise in other areas. A bunch of those taxes would fall on renters. Nothing says social cohesion like changing tax policy to benefit the rich over the poor. This would also help keep property prices up. When that fails, the nuclear option is to have negative property taxes -- Just wait ! ! !

DemoralizerOfPanicans says

It's not okay when you plan to live there for decades, esp. with a family, and you can't store papers, albums, kid's drawings, and such in a 90F 80% humidity garage.

Exactly what can you store in a 90F 80% humidity garage? Or even in a shed? I mean I think that there are plenty of sheds in Florida, but I'm not sure what you can store in them (may be dependent on where in Florida).

zzyzzx says

Exactly what can you store in a 90F 80% humidity garage? Or even in a shed? I mean I think that there are plenty of sheds in Florida, but I'm not sure what you can store in them (may be dependent on where in Florida).

Plastic shit, lawn mower, tools, washer fluid, oil, car stuff etc.

MAMDANI to stop Florida Real Estate Decline! Yet another man-made disaster makes New Yorkers run South!

There's nothing left in Florida but 5th Gen Flippers looking for a sucker.
Or you might could get into one of those tiny condo apartments they are squeezing in a 8 family units on a SFH lot.
If brutal and commercial architecture is your style.

zzyzzx says

Exactly what can you store in a 90F 80% humidity garage? Or even in a shed? I mean I think that there are plenty of sheds in Florida, but I'm not sure what you can store in them (may be dependent on where in Florida).

In the utility plastic shed I store Holiday decorations in 40 and 50 gallon plastic tubs. I store all my tools and heat and humidity sensitive stuff in my mancave shed. It's airconditioned.

B.A.C.A.H. says

zzyzzx says

Oklahoma has insurance issues due to things like hail damage to the extent it might actually be worse than Florida / California / Hawaii / Colorado. That's going to cause housing prices to drop.

Yeah but my Red State Bubbas over there tell me that Climate Change Is A Hoax.

OK hail is not a new thing.

So, DeSantis, not exactly thinking long term is pushing forward on having no property tax in Florida. Great if you have a $1million plus property, but unless spending is cut, and he ain't for that, those taxes gotta come from somewhere. He's out to curry the vote of the large landowners. Renters just get screwed, and taxes aren't included in CPI figures. This pushes up property prices and takes monthly savings from renters looking to buy a home because of higher sales taxes. It'll take a 60% majority vote of the population to pass come next year. So, he proposed an immediate relief of a $1k rebate to property owners for this year. Gotta love that reverse Robinhood vibe, give landowners extra coin, renters get extra taxes and inflation.

A little extra push to keep homeownership out of the hands of those without.

People wonder why a Mamdani gets elected by the young.

https://www.newsweek.com/ron-desantis-property-tax-plans-2028-election-florida-republican-11067682

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1874-Pointe-Dr-Panama-City-Beach-FL-32407/251474936_zpid/

asking rent price is $1900 and so far 9 days on marking

asking rent was $2000 in May 2022

so rent is around 2021 levels

Misc says

DeSantis, not exactly thinking long term is pushing forward on having no property tax in Florida

Maybe he's just floating something out there in order to gauge public perception. Or maybe to troll other govonors in states with high taxes.

SunnyvaleCA says

Misc says

DeSantis, not exactly thinking long term is pushing forward on having no property tax in Florida

Maybe he's just floating something out there in order to gauge public perception. Or maybe to troll other govonors in states with high taxes.

DeSantis is trying to make it more liveable for the retiree living in a $250K to $700K home on a limited income such as Social Security and a small self-funded pension like IRA.

He's also trying to force Democrat city councils like in Gainesville and Orlando to stop the reckless spending increases and passes this onto home owners through property tax and assessment increases.

They will waste money on Democrat causes like green initiatives while neglecting infrastructure upkeep like local road maintenance.

https://www.fox13news.com/news/tampa-foreclosure-florida-nation-housing-distress

Tampa becomes foreclosure epicenter as Florida tops nation in housing distress

zzyzzx says

Tampa becomes foreclosure epicenter as Florida tops nation in housing distress

Sounds like all those retirees cannot afford the upkeep on inflated homes (taxes, insurance, etc.).

HeadSet says

Sounds like all those retirees cannot afford the upkeep on inflated homes (taxes, insurance, etc.).

My property insurance (HO-3, ~$275K replacement value, 5% deductible, within 2 miles of beach in Florida panhandle) was to be renewed at $2350 in September 2025 by Olympus Insurance.

I was able to lower that to around $1625 by switching to Ovation Insurance. That is same price I paid for Olympus Insurance back around 2022.

HOA is lowering the regular assessment from $420 to $385 per month for 2026. There has never been a special assessment during the HOA's 20 year history.

I guess Florida is not too picky when it comes to being able to designate something as an insurance company. It is member-owned reciprocal carrier. A member-owned reciprocal insurance company (also known as a reciprocal insurance exchange) is an unincorporated association where policyholders, called "subscribers," agree to insure each other. Subscribers are both the customers and the owners, pooling their resources to share risk and cover potential losses.

With only $55 million in capital, if there was a hurricane, I'm gonna bet it would simply cease to exist, and if I were a polcy holder I'd be wondering if I had to pay for damages above that amount incurred by other "subscribers".Usually, a person is at risk only up to his/her policy premium. Additional damages to his property would be covered by the property owner in case the organization goes belly up.

It has no employees. It simply has an agreement with a management company to oversee things. Like I say, any difficult times and the management company just drifts away.

Misc says

With only $55 million in capital, if there was a hurricane

Olympus Insurance has an estimated capital base of around $200–250 million, supported by a strong reinsurance program and a risk-based capital (RBC) ratio of over 600%, according to KBRA’s 2024 rating review.

📊 Olympus Insurance Capital & Financial Strength
• Capital Base: Olympus Insurance Company (Florida homeowners insurer) maintains roughly $200–250 million in statutory capital and surplus.
• RBC Ratio: Reported at 607% in 2024, which is considered very strong for a regional property insurer.
• Reinsurance: Olympus allocates 40–50% of premiums to reinsurance, ensuring protection against catastrophic hurricane losses.
• Ownership: Parent company Gemini Financial Holdings Corp. is being acquired by SageSure Insurance Managers, which may expand capital support.

🔎 Context
• Olympus specializes in Florida homeowners insurance, a market notorious for volatility due to hurricanes and litigation.
• Its capital strength is a key reason KBRA assigned a BBB+ rating with a stable outlook in 2024, though this was placed on Watch Developing in 2025 pending the SageSure acquisition.
• The capital surplus acts as a buffer against underwriting losses and catastrophic events, while the high RBC ratio signals resilience compared to peers.

🧩 Big Picture
• Olympus is well-capitalized relative to its size, but still exposed to Florida’s systemic risks.
• The SageSure acquisition could bolster its capital base further, depending on how integration and reinsurance structures are managed.
• For policyholders, the strong capital position means Olympus is financially capable of paying claims, even in severe hurricane seasons.

Great. Now do that for Ovation Insurance, the company you switched to. That's the one I was talking about. You will find their numbers skimpier.

Misc says

Great. Now do that for Ovation Insurance

Ovation was given the opportunity to take over 81k policies from the State of Florida. Given the price discrepancies between this new insurance company and more established companies, I would guess that a fair number switched. The exact number was undisclosed. Maybe you would have better luck on finding out the number of "subscribers".

In most States the Insurance Commissioner is an elected position because of the fraud that permeates the industry. Generally, if an insurance company goes bust, the State picks up a certain amount of the liabilities. However, given this member owned model it is unlikely that the State is on the hook

I feel that in its zeal to make homeownership more affordable, the Commissioner has neglected the risks of this untried insurer. If the number of policies is anywhere near what I anticipate.

You seem much more trusting than I am. It does not make either of us wrong at this point.

Even Olympus closed 62% of its claims with ZERO outlays.

I don't recommend either.

Misc says

However, given this member owned model it is unlikely that the State is on the hook

Yes, if Ovation Insurance (specifically Ovation Home Insurance Exchange) were to go bankrupt, the state of Florida would provide coverage for your claims through the Florida Insurance Guaranty Association (FIGA), subject to certain limits.

How Florida Protects Policyholders
FIGA's Role: FIGA is a non-profit corporation created by the Florida Legislature that acts as a safety net for policyholders of insolvent property and casualty insurance companies licensed in the state. Ovation Home Insurance Exchange is a Florida-licensed insurer and a member of FIGA.

Covered Claims: When a member insurer is ordered liquidated by a court, FIGA steps in to process and pay covered claims that arose either prior to the liquidation order or within 30 days after the order, unless the policy is replaced sooner.

Coverage Limits: FIGA coverage has specific financial caps:

The maximum amount FIGA will cover is generally $300,000 per covered claim.
For the structure and contents of a residential homeowners' claim, an additional $200,000 of coverage is available, bringing the total cap to $500,000.
FIGA also typically refunds unearned premiums (the portion of your premium for coverage you didn't receive due to the insolvency).

Important Considerations
FIGA Deductible: For companies liquidated on or after July 1, 2021, the separate $100 FIGA deductible has been removed, so only your policy's original deductible applies.
Claim Deadlines: There are strict legal procedures and deadlines for filing claims with FIGA. You must fully settle your claim with FIGA or file a lawsuit against them before the deadline, which is typically one year after the "Claim Deadline" established for the failed insurance company.

Looks like the State is on the hook. Just don't expect any timely resolution.

Misc says

Looks like the State is on the hook. Just don't expect any timely resolution.

Yes, the state of Florida is the last resort to bail out the property insurance companies. Ovation Insurance does have some protection through reinsurance.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/real-estate-news/article313193271.html

Summary: Miami’s housing market, after years of rapid price growth, is finally showing signs of cooling. A new real estate index reveals that home prices in Miami-Dade have begun to flatten and even decline in some areas, marking the first sustained slowdown since the pandemic-era boom.

🏠 Key Points from Douglas Hanks’ Miami Herald Article
• Cooling Trend: The real estate index shows Miami housing prices are no longer climbing at the double-digit pace seen in recent years.
• Market Shift: After a “hot run” fueled by migration, investment, and low interest rates, the market is now adjusting to higher borrowing costs and affordability pressures.
• Regional Impact: While Miami-Dade remains one of the nation’s most expensive housing markets, the rate of appreciation has slowed significantly, with some neighborhoods experiencing outright declines.
• Buyer Behavior: Rising mortgage rates and insurance costs are dampening demand, leading to longer listing times and more price cuts.
• Economic Context: The slowdown reflects broader national trends, but Miami’s market is particularly sensitive due to its reliance on out-of-state buyers and investors.

🔎 Why It Matters
• Affordability Relief: For local residents, the cooling may offer some relief after years of surging prices that pushed homeownership out of reach.
• Investor Caution: Speculative buyers may pull back, reducing volatility but also slowing new development.
• Policy Implications: The shift underscores the need for affordable housing initiatives as Miami balances growth with livability.

In short: Miami’s housing market, once red-hot, is now entering a cooling phase, with price growth slowing and affordability pressures reshaping buyer demand.

AD says

with price growth slowing

That still means prices are increasing.

https://www.realtor.com/news/trends/florida-home-prices-drop-2026-forecast/

As expected, Florida real estate will drop a few percentage points while household income increases 2 to 3% a year. The soaring insurance cost is mostly in the beach high-rise communities as far as complying with state law and property insurance requirements after the Sunrise tower collapse.

Speaking of collapse, a Cold Snap coming around December 9th.

Might get into the 40s and 50s at night in parts of the Panhandle and Central FL!

It'll be interesting whether rock bottom FL wages ($7,000 below national average of $60k) will rise to average US levels, or whether FL housing costs will move closer to the US average (with 7-10% drop needed).

Post-COVID, FL is a mess with 10% below average national worker pay but 7-10% above national average housing costs. Pre-COVID, it was normal as lower than national average wages were offset by lower than average housing. Florida used to have bottom 20% wages AND housing of all states, which cancelled each other out - and far lower prop tax and insurance.