patrick.net

I realize I'm in the minority (pun half intended) but to me motive matters.

Did you overstay your visa?
Are you genuinely seeking asylum?
Did you not have the money to enter legally?
Were you simply impatient and not wanting to wait your turn in the queue?

One thing that IS makerdly different is that Under Biden blatant border crossing was the norm. Hundreds of thousands came in and we have no way to track them or know where they are. Clearly this is a problem and a potential security liability.

But for me, from where I sit, in a deep blue state, rouding then up and kicking them out permanently, although I understand the sentiment and the logic, just seems to me an inelegant solution. A sledge hammer instead of a scalpel.

I believe that in the end your judged by what you do for the very least. I believe in second chances and American exeptionalism.

I'm for securing the border. I'm for deporting violent young men and drug pushers. I don't believe in anchor babies and am glad to see birthright citizenship being challenged.

But I do believe that no matter how you got here, once your here, it should be on you to sink or swim.

Go back 120 years. All eight of my great grandparents came from nothing and made a life for themselves. They assimilated. They were proud Americans. And not all came in legally. But once they were here they put their nose to the grindstone and eek out a better life without leaning on Uncle Sam to make it happen.

That's the kind of America I want to get back to.

And I'm all for persecuting companies who have contributed to this problem.

GreaterNYCDude says

Were you simply impatient and not wanting to wait your turn in the queue?

Most of them are this. They just do not give a shit what the laws of the US are and have proven themselves willing to break them, first by entering illegally, second by working illegally.

All for money. No principles at all beyond making money at the expense of US citizens.

Not to mention that the tens of millions of illegals are counted to allocate many Congressional seats to Democrats.

If I sneak into Switzerland and work there illegally purely because I can make more money than I can here, does that give me the right to stay in Switzerland?

Patrick says

If I sneak into Switzerland and work there illegally purely because I can make more money than I can here, does that give me the right to stay in Switzerland?

If your contributing to Swiss society, paying taxes, renting a place to live, etc. why would they not want you to stay?

And who would hire you? This is where the corporations, large and small bear some responsibility. In most other countries if you don't have a work visa you can't get a job.

I have a family meber trying to emigrate to Switzerland (ironically enough) and despite an advanced degree and two decades employed here in the states, are having difficulty finding the msomeone to sponsor them abroad. Seems the Swiss aren't keen on taking in Americans right now. Go figure.

My relatives new plan is to transfer internally to their employers German office and take up residency there. All to be closer to their significant other. Loves makes people do strange things.

If you enter any county illegally does it make it right? Of course not. But it's understandable and relatable. And if one adds value, what is gained by forcibly throwing said person out?

Patrick says

Not to mention that the tens of millions of illegals are counted to allocate many Congressional seats to Democrats.

The American taxpayer has no representation. Harvard proved some years ago that citizens have almost zero influence on politics. We are cattle. This is not hyperbole.

Do not listen to people like @GreaterNYCDude. People like this have some vested interest.

GreaterNYCDude says

If your contributing to Swiss society, paying taxes, renting a place to live, etc. why would they not want you to stay?

What if I were not paying taxes?

But the main reason they would not want you to stay is that you are taking a job from a citizen.

Not to mention taking a place to live away from a citizen.

The argument that "the Swiss don't want those jobs" is self-justifying bullshit. Maybe the Swiss don't want those jobs at the wages an illegal alien will accept, but at a Swiss wage, they will do any job.

One interesting part of being in Japan was seeing all jobs done by the Japanese. The Japanese pick vegetables, they clean toilets, they do construction, and they are hardly third-worlders.

GreaterNYCDude says

And who would hire you? This is where the corporations, large and small bear some responsibility. In most other countries if you don't have a work visa you can't get a job.

Absolutely. We are in entire agreement here.

Employers are conspiring against low-income US workers to hire even lower-income aliens. Just to boost profits for themselves. This is a serious crime.

The aliens are merely opportunists who do not give any shits at all about the US citizens they are harming.

GreaterNYCDude says

But it's understandable and relatable. And if one adds value, what is gained by forcibly throwing said person out?

I do not relate to taking advantage of the poorest citizen of another country for one's own profit.

What is gained by deportations?

- higher wages for the poorest US citizens
- more jobs for US citizens
- lower rents for US citizens
- lower medical costs because illegals put their costs onto others
- a far more fair electoral system, where Congress represents only US citizns
- lower crime (too much is made of this by the Trump admin, but it's still true)
- more respect for US immigration and employment law

Glock-n-Load says

The American taxpayer has no representation. Harvard proved some years ago that citizens have almost zero influence on politics. We are cattle. This is not hyperbole.

This is truly the crux of the problem.

The poorest US citizens have the least voice in government, and so they are the ones getting screwed the hardest by the conspiracy between employers, illegals, the Democratic Party, and AWFLs.

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2014/04/16/The-US-is-not-a-democracy-but-an-oligarchy-study-concludes/2761397680051/

April 16, 2014 / 5:47 PM

The US is not a democracy but an oligarchy, study concludes

"The central point that emerges from our research is that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on US government policy, while mass-based interest groups and average citizens have little or no independent influence,”

Patrick says

The Japanese pick vegetables, they clean toilets, they do construction, and they are hardly third-worlders.

https://www.imdb.com/es/title/tt27503384/

Japanese guy has happy life cleaning toilets, which he can have only because he is not competing with desperate 3rd worlders.

I understand the empathy for illegals, but it is weaponized empathy used to make money for the rich and to subvert democracy via Congressional misallocation of seats.

What always remains unspoken is the truly vast harm caused to the Americans that the illegals compete with.

Even legal Hispanics are strongly against illegals for that very reason.

Patrick says

Patrick says

The Japanese pick vegetables, they clean toilets, they do construction, and they are hardly third-worlders.

https://www.imdb.com/es/title/tt27503384/

Japanese guy has happy life cleaning toilets, which he can have only because he is not competing with desperate 3rd worlders.

Problem is most US citizens see this as unworthy work. Especially womyn. Their materialism is largely responsible for the decay of public trust and values of grit and hard work in the US. This job should pay 3 times of what a useless hr cat lady gets.

Hard to explain in a meme that illegals are counted for the purpose of allocating Congressional districts.

@GreaterNYCDude I'm sure you're a decent guy. But maybe you haven't really considered the harms caused by mass illegal immigration.

Patrick says

- higher wages for the poorest US citizens
- more jobs for US citizens
- lower rents for US citizens
- lower medical costs because illegals put their costs onto others
- a far more fair electoral system, where Congress represents only US citizns
- lower crime (too much is made of this by the Trump admin, but it's still true)
- more respect for US immigration and employment law

- Less wear and burden on infrastructure (schools, emergency aid/services), esp. in working class areas

Greenbelts and Penthouse heavy areas in Cities fight tooth and nail to ensure school boundaries exclude immigrants, who are shunted onto more modest neighborhoods.

DemoralizerOfPanicans says

Greenbelts and Penthouse heavy areas in Cities fight tooth and nail to ensure school boundaries exclude immigrants, who are shunted onto more modest neighborhoods

Yes, and we also keep out Obama's insta-ghetto subsidized housing complexes, Under the Biden administration they tried putting one of those in my community. We slapped an over 55 community moniker on it. -- Fuck diversity.

Soros Vikings:

Patrick says

GreaterNYCDude I'm sure you're a decent guy. But maybe you haven't really considered the harms caused by mass illegal immigration.

@Patrick you may not recall, but we met up for lunch about 10 years ago. You make some good points.

I'm not against turning off the spigot and increasing border security. I'm not against eliminating welfare to people who shouldn't be eligible for it. But I can't say that immigrants, legal or illegal are "taking jobs" from your average Americans.

Employers in this country will pay the minimum and some will pay less if they think they can get away with it.

And I keep going back to my main point that mass deportation isn't a solution. Eliminate the social support net that keeps them here and people will self deport.

Thanks @GreaterNYCDude Do you remember the restaurant name or location?

You say that illegals are not taking jobs from average Americans. (I'm not concerned about legal immigrants, because they are Americans. A job taken by a legal immigrant is by definition a job given to an American.)

I agree that it's a bit hard to see how illegals are taking jobs if you're not at the lowest economic level in the US. In fact, middle class people like us actually do benefit economically from illegals by getting lower prices for labor (and thus for certain goods) in the short run.

But if you are at that low level, it's painfully clear that competing with Jose makes you poorer. There are only so many gardening, maid, meatpacking, farming, and construction jobs available. More job candidates = accept lower wages or lose the job.

I see deportations as the best incentive to self-deportation, especially when publicized. But I agree with you that cutting off the free health care and other benefits for illegals are also good incentives to leave. Not to mention that those programs are terribly unfair to US citizens who are excluded.

Thanks for not just ditching the discussion and calling me a Nazi.

https://dailycaller.com/2025/10/20/american-truckers-trump-administration-crackdown-foreign-drivers/

American truckers are cheering the Trump administration’s crackdown on illegal migrant drivers as not only a means to make highways safer, but also as a step to raking in more cash in markets long known for profiting off cheap foreign labor. ...

“I’ve definitely noticed some rates going up,” Ilya Denisenko, the owner and operator of ICV Express, said to the Daily Caller News Foundation. Just days earlier, Denisenko was easily able to negotiate a load — originally posted for $1,000 — up to $1,900.

“Without me even speaking to someone, they approved $1,900,” he explained. “That’s almost double of what they had originally posted for, and I would say the normal rate for that lane was about maybe $1,500 to $1,600, and I automatically got $1,900.”

GreaterNYCDude says

Long term we need to look at WHY people are compelled to enter illegally and solve that. Treat the root cause, not the symptoms.

Seems like we agree here. The reason people are compelled to illegally come to the US is that those folks notice that people who snuck in illegally can stay. If those tempted to sneak in see that that would get no jobs, no government benefits, and face immediate deportation, they would not be compelled to trespass. If we do not deport everyone who is here illegally, we entice others to come.

If you mean fix the situations that make them want to leave their homelands, I think strict immigration enforcement beats overthrowing governments of high emigration countries to establish a more prosperous local economy that eliminates the desire to leave.

@ Patrick it was some wine bar at a mall. I was in town for work and coming back from an Oakland A's game. Back then, when you were mostly housing focused, I used the handle EastCoastBubleBoy.

P.S. - I wasn't trying to flag your comment... Hit the wrong button.

Thanks, it was the name change that threw me.

I remember now. Wine bar in the Ferry Building.

Stealing the meme below from another thread

This country is ruled by the worst or the worst.

https://x.com/DAGToddBlanche/status/1981495700450893894

California politicians want to arrest federal agents for enforcing federal law.
We just sent them a letter: Stand down or face prosecution.
No one threatens our agents. No one will stop us from Making America Safe Again.

Deputy AG.

It's a measure of how much globohomo feels threatened by MAGA. They only have a limited time until all their stockpiled USAID loot runs out.

LOL! " "Rollin', rollin', rollin'," "Keep them illegals movin'," and "Move 'em on, head 'em up, head 'em up, move 'em on""! (cue Rawhide theme).

Ceffer says

LOL! " "Rollin', rollin', rollin'," "Keep them illegals movin'," and "Move 'em on, head 'em up, head 'em up, move 'em on

! (cue Rawhide theme).

Speaking of rollin'

Stupid fat hobbit!

But not as stupid as the idiots that believe she’s being arrested by raycist cops illegally.

These fucking hosebeasts have had the last 5 years to acclimate to surly behavior. They don't understand that the rules have changed; if you slap, punch, or spit on a cop, you're going to jail. Trump is applying pre-2020 laws and norms to try to save this fucking country before it descends to globohomo anarchy.

DemoralizerOfPanicans says

Speaking of rollin'

Belongs in this thread:
https://patrick.net/post/1343265/2022-01-08-are-you-overweight-obese-at-a-healthy?start=265