patrick.net

For those saying do separate bills, each would then require 60 votes (needing Schumer) instead of 50. Reconciliation is a special process each fiscal year where you can make fiscal changes with 50 votes. That’s why BBB is the vehicle for tax cuts, deportations and welfare reform.

https://x.com/StephenM/status/1930060829552001194

Hey, why did 13,14 year legislators like Massie and especially Rand "Forget" to mention that fact? Are they that incompetent at their jobs?

Anybody honestly believe the Senate could get 60 votes for any good spending bills subject to such a condition?

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1930149571801559198

Lol, Elon is now quoting Trump himself to make his point:

Patrick says

Lol, Elon is now quoting Trump himself to make his point:

It's a soap opera to restore Elon's corporate identity. Just like soap operas, they'll be back in bed with each other sooner or later.

Great - quite shit over 10 years old. I'm sure if they went back to quotes of Trump when he was 5 years old, they could get even juicier quotes.

stereotomy don’t be a debt junkie. right choices are not easy choices. congress got no balls to cut spending. but we must force them to.

remember: Debt is Slavery

https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/doge-vs-trump

the “big beautiful bill” is a porkulous calamity where a weaksauce gormless opposition party played business as usual to run up debt by overspending and trump, in direct contrast to the claims he ran on, cheer led it. he’s siding with the RINO frails in congress over the american people on SALT giveaways and entitlements and 5000 little private clownshows. it’s an awful, business as usual bill resembling nothing so much as sugar loaded suet marketed as protein bars.

a stand was promised and this was the time to take one. instead, we “have to pork the bill to pass the bill” and keep these lameo fake fiscal conservatives in congress. trump proved to be just another “run on balanced budget rule on giant deficits” republican.

this is not a good look.

they gave the game away.

Good to know there is still SOMEONE who pretends to care about deficit spending... even if he is now an untouchable pariah despised by both sides of the political establishment.

I also got a kick out of Rand Paul saying he wont vote for it because it includes raising the debt ceiling, though he would vote for the rest of it.... so he'd vote in favor of the deficit spending as long as he reserves the right to complain about it later when its time to pay the bill... what a jackass.

At least Elon is self-consistent about not deficit spending in the first place.

This was all set up to be this way. The Freedom Clowns want the Spending Limit raised in December 2024, though they raised it Summer 2023 for Xiden.

Everything the Freedom Cuckoos have done is about trying to stop Trump from consolidating MAGA policies in the one annual bill that only requires 50 Senate votes.

"Muh separate bills" would require 60 votes, which means nothing that isn't laden with pork (and thus big spending) and token only policy changes can pass.

At that point, it's not about RINOs, since to get 60 Senate Votes some Democrats would have to come on board. Dems who don't want Grandma MeiMei not getting the Medicare despite the fact she only came to the USA at 72 years old from Taipei and Mr. Jiang the Tech Bro who makes $250k/year swore to support her to the Immigration Service and despite abandoning her, she makes dinner every night for her son and his family. Ditto for Chinese and Ukrainian anchor baby births.

It was always about stopping Immigration Enforcement, not any deficit concerns.

Mass migration is THE cornerstone of the Neolibs, Globalist, and the Elites of all stripes, including TechBros.

doesn’t change that bbb is debt slavery trash

Fortwaye says

doesn’t change that bbb is debt slavery trash

The BBB was never supposed to be. Massie was supposed to Trap Trump in a 3-5% increase spending bill and then dance around and harp on how Trump is a spendthrift, back in Feb-March this year with his usual Clown Show. Having prevented any MAGA agenda, esp. on Border Enforcement. Then Trump would need 60 Senate votes in any successive bill to get some MAGA codified into law.

Somehow, with EOs and Tariffs and pressure on the House, Trump got a BBB this far, with some good cuts and tax cuts and MAGA policies, but only needing 50 votes.

good tax cuts? its give away to special interests. no tax on OT, government union cash cow. they milk that crap every 3 month. no tax on tips.

but we get settled with inflation from government spending Trump promised to get rid of. so yeah i think Trump was full of shit when he made those promises. he’s a sakes guy. he has good qualities, but he lies too. i don’t want more debt slavery.

btw if you remember that was patnet originally slogan coined by patrick: debt is slavery. it stuck around because it’s true.

Fortwaye says

btw if you remember that was patnet originally slogan coined by patrick: debt is slavery. it stuck around because it’s true.

Perfect is the enemy of the good.

Get rid of Trump, guess what? You still got Congress but no Trump. You'll get debt slavery more and faster plus mass migration, etc.

who says get rid of Trump? i want to stop government from borrowing from our kids futures.

Fortwaye says

who says get rid of Trump? i want to stop government from borrowing from our kids futures.

This is a reconciliation bill.

It can only deal with mandatory spending like Medicare and Food Stamps. It cannot encompass discretionary spending like Federal Grants to Transgender Turkeys Tallies. Or DOGE, which was almost entirely Discretionary spending

It is singular in that in only requires 50 Senate Votes to pass (with Vance breaking the tie) because reconciliation bills can't be filibustered by law.

This part of the Byrd Rule, and to make other bills require only a majority vote to pass, you'd need 60 senators to agree, which isn't going to happen.

It makes permanent the current tax rates which were cut in 2017 as well as adding some new tax cuts

It is the biggest reduction in welfare in 30+ years, including expanding work requirements and closing many loopholes California, NY, and other states used to give Medicaid to Illegals and other non-qualified persons (the Foreign Grandma who never worked a day in the USA getting Medicare/Medicaid situation fake-abandoned by wealthy family members who are dining with her every night).

It does greatly expand the ICE/DHS budget for border security and deportations by many billions, which is necessary because buses and planes run on gas, and lawyers fighting off Catholic Charities, HIAC, and LIRS don't work for free.

CBO uses an accounting gimmick to count the 2017 cuts, always meant to be permanent, as spending new money when made permanent.

Since it cannot encompass discretionary spending, making any Total Budget Forecasts how much it will or won't 10 years from now is dishonest and deliberately so.

It is not a ten-year budget bill. Another reason why claims of "Raises Debt X Trillion over a decade" is bullshit.

It does not codify DOGE because it can't. The vast majority of DOGE discoveries were discretionary spending items.

The BBB doesn't even spend money. It only sets the budget for spending.

If you keep everything else outside the scope of the BBB as it was in the last bill, the BBB would indeed cut spending over $1.6T - even if it spent the entire budget.

you are not correct, i’ve heard senators last week saying that they could cut stuff from budget and discretionary in this bill. and you think they are in some form limited.

here is one of the interviews about it:
https://tuckercarlson.com/tucker-show-ron-johnson

cuts don’t kick in till 4 years from now. tax cuts are bullshit cuts for unions, overtime. no tax on tips is gimmick for few years.

cbo hasn’t counted Trump tax cuts in estimated, so deficit will balloon.

Fortwaye says

cuts don’t kick in till 4 years from now. tax cuts are bullshit cuts for unions, overtime. no tax on tips is gimmick for few years.

Completely wrong. The 2017 tax cuts become permanent as intended, which counts as "Spending" by the rules governing the CBO.

It's far more important we crush mass migration than balance the budget.

Here's another truth: There is no debt ceiling. It's pure performative BS the swamp uses to force legislators - or give them an excuse - to just pass spending bills and not have long, drawn out, year long budget battles

"OMG if we don't get an agreement with the other party in a few weeks, the debt ceiling will be hit! We have to just increase budgets 2-3% and make a deal fast or we'll collapse the economy! We don't have time to have a long spending fight!;

All Swamp BS.

BTW, Elon has seen the BBB for weeks, more evidence he either had a shitfit over Mass Migration reduction, or more likely this is theater.

there is debt ceiling, they can’t borrow more without approval. that’s whole point, otherwise it’s unlimited credit card.

Fortwaye says

there is debt ceiling, they can’t borrow more without approval. that’s whole point, otherwise it’s unlimited credit card.

Where in the Constitution is a debt ceiling?

It's all made up rules by Congress that can be changed

It comes down to debt load such as debt service or payment as a percentage of tax revenue or receipts and debt as a percentage of GDP.

Its no different than for a household as far as debt load or for a business.

Debt to GDP ratio now at 120%, it was 107% just before pandemic started and has been over 100% since January 2014

AmericanKulak says

Where in the Constitution is a debt ceiling?

It's all made up rules by Congress that can be changed

Whether to ISSUE the debt and spend the money is totally up to congress.

Whether to PAY the debt after it is issued is guaranteed by the constitution 14th amendment. So default would be unconstitutional.

While I DO think balancing the budget is good policy and should be prioritized.... I have ZERO hope that this will be the outcome of the current fiscal fiasco created by both parties. Both parties have acclimated themselves not only to deficits, but INCREASING deficits over time.. each administration seeks to set a new record. The notion of holding the deficit merely constant is fringe in both parties.... Bringing the deficit to zero is unthinkable to both parties, since it would required entitlement/mandatory spending cuts. I think the only way this will occur is by financial crisis, which I think is what will eventually occur.

AmericanKulak says

Fortwaye says

there is debt ceiling, they can’t borrow more without approval. that’s whole point, otherwise it’s unlimited credit card.

Where in the Constitution is a debt ceiling?

It's all made up rules by Congress that can be changed

everything in constitution can be changed. what’s your point?

Fortwaye says

everything in constitution can be changed. what’s your point?

Constitution is MUCH harder to change and requires much broader consensus than just changing laws....
Debt ceiling is just a law, fully within the purview of congress to change.

Im totally with you on not borrowing from our kids future.... hence my user name.

AmericanKulak says

BTW, Elon has seen the BBB for weeks, more evidence he either had a shitfit over Mass Migration reduction, or more likely this is theater.

I dont know.. I think he could be genuinely annoyed that the bill is undermining efforts to reduce deficit spending. I think the motives you ascribe are a stretch.

This is the guy who was dancing on stage with a chainsaw... and just got done cutting most of Twitter/X budget to try to balance its budget. I think he may be genuinely interested in reducing spending and annoyed that the bill re-up's the deficit. I think he has a bit of an ego and believes that he can cut the budget effectively. Whether that is true is another story, but I think he believes it, and thats what motivates his frustrations lately.

I'm sure glad the government hasn't done anything Unconstitutional - Ever -- Giggles to self

What planet do people live on thinking a piece of paper can change reality.

DeficitHawk says

I dont know.. I think he could be genuinely annoyed that the bill is undermining efforts to reduce deficit spending. I think the motives you ascribe are a stretch.

The last time Musk had a flipout, what was it about?

This bill cuts over $1.6T in entitlements, permanently - and this is just the mandatory side. Biggest welfare cuts since the 1990s.

We haven't gotten to the discretionary bill yet.

Trump's top issues - and why he was elected was - Border, Inflation, and Rebuilding America. He wasn't elected to create instant cuts and couldn't if he wanted to thanks to Congress.

This bill is great on Border Control and Deportation, cuts the hell out of medicaid and food stamp eligibility for non-US citizens and increases the work requirement, and imposes an additional 3.5% tax on remittances which should be 20%. Every foreigner here should be paying $20 in taxes to send $100 back via Western Union. Many are not supposed to be here, but if they are, then America First. That goes for H1Bs, too.

This is why we lose. They get the best bill in probably 30 years for spending that also codifies multiple MAGA policies, considering the flimsiest majority in the House, and it's all but certain to pass...

Today a guy was moping that there was 4-5 billion more bucks (for trade schools) in a budget (not yet spent, just the desired budget) in a bill with a trillion and a half in cuts.

And FULLY Funds the Border Wall. And billions for deportations (which avg. $5k each)

Fuck this heap of shit. Elon is right, Massie is right, Cantillon effect pigs of course are full-press for jus' one! more!

Massie voted for the 2023 Budget Buster that keep all the COVID spending PLUS some, and lasted 20 months from June 2023 until Feb 2023 for Xiden. And gave Xiden a debt ceiling increase. During an election year.

But whinged about Trump wanting 20 days or so.

So he can go fuck himself.

It's a fact. Turn off Tuqar Qarlson and go look.

If you buy Mass Migration Massie, that has never passed a bill in his 13 long years in Congress, though he did cosponsor a bill to allow the extended families of H1Bs to come and get a work permit, and his bullshit... wake up.

By the way, if we don't control Mass Migration, who gives a shit about defaulting later? We'll be a Turd World Country with a Turd World Majority at that point.

AmericanKulak says

They get the best bill in probably 30 years for spending that also codifies multiple MAGA policies

Depends if your priorities are the spending programs and tax cuts, or the deficit reduction.

If your priority is deficit reduction, this bill is going the wrong direction. It increases the deficit. Some of us think the deficit is too big and want it smaller.

I don't care about any details besides 10,000,000 deports per year or no deal. That's not going to happen so shut this shit off. At least protection will be offlined soon. Fucking put Fleccas Talk in charge of homeland security I don't need any of this shit. If they pass it in current form I will consider my "government" hostile to me despite strong evidence already.

AmericanKulak says

who gives a shit about defaulting later?

You sound like Paul Krugman. Always rationalizing why its ok to deficit spend. "Dont worry about it... spend spend spend... there will be no consequences... it will never catch up to us"... That guy never met a spending program he didnt love. I'd hate to be his accountant though.

DeficitHawk says

Depends if your priorities are the spending programs and tax cuts, or the deficit reduction.

If your priority is deficit reduction, this bill is going the wrong direction. It increases the deficit. Some of us think the deficit is too big and want it smaller.

This bill is a good step in that direction, the best in 20-30 years, attacking entitlements directly, AND has great MAGA policies like Immigration Reform which was a top 3 issue.

With a tiny majority in the House, and a not-Filibuster proof majority in the Senate, tell me SPECIFICALLY what bill you'd propose that will actually pass.

Because a bill that is great but doesn't pass doesn't do anything.

Even my esteemed man Crane is pushing the Big Faggot Bundle. Fuck this shit. Zoomers: THE FUCKING FUCKERS ARE FUCKING YOU IN REAL TIME RIGHT NOW, NO MORE!

I've had enough coin clipping. Fuck these people.

DeficitHawk says

You sound like Paul Krugman. Always rationalizing why its ok to deficit spend. "Dont worry about it... spend spend spend... there will be no consequences... it will never catch up to us"... That guy never met a spending program he didnt love. I'd hate to be his accountant though.

Nope. There won't be an America as you know it to save without drastic Immigration Reform.

Defaults are no big deal. France defaulted several times in the 19th Century and entered the 20th Century as a Top 3 Power with immense strength and prestige and a far higher standard of living.

steverbeaver says

Even my esteemed man Crane is pushing the Big Faggot Bundle. Fuck this shit. Zoomers: THE FUCKING FUCKERS ARE FUCKING YOU IN REAL TIME RIGHT NOW, NO MORE!

Oh no, the children who are scared to go outside are getting upset. Somebody hand them a Camomile Vape.

Still waiting for specifics drastic big fat bill they have that will actually pass. Certainly Massie and Rand must have a bill with all their energy they put into grandstanding and complaining, right?