patrick.net

Even my esteemed man Crane is pushing the Big Faggot Bundle. Fuck this shit. Zoomers: THE FUCKING FUCKERS ARE FUCKING YOU IN REAL TIME RIGHT NOW, NO MORE!

I've had enough coin clipping. Fuck these people.

DeficitHawk says

You sound like Paul Krugman. Always rationalizing why its ok to deficit spend. "Dont worry about it... spend spend spend... there will be no consequences... it will never catch up to us"... That guy never met a spending program he didnt love. I'd hate to be his accountant though.

Nope. There won't be an America as you know it to save without drastic Immigration Reform.

Defaults are no big deal. France defaulted several times in the 19th Century and entered the 20th Century as a Top 3 Power with immense strength and prestige and a far higher standard of living.

steverbeaver says

Even my esteemed man Crane is pushing the Big Faggot Bundle. Fuck this shit. Zoomers: THE FUCKING FUCKERS ARE FUCKING YOU IN REAL TIME RIGHT NOW, NO MORE!

Oh no, the children who are scared to go outside are getting upset. Somebody hand them a Camomile Vape.

Still waiting for specifics drastic big fat bill they have that will actually pass. Certainly Massie and Rand must have a bill with all their energy they put into grandstanding and complaining, right?

AmericanKulak says

what bill you'd propose that will actually pass.

Oh, don't mistake me for an optimist, I am not... I am sure there is NO bill that will reduce the deficit that will pass congress. Both parties are lock step on this.

But if you ask me what change I'd vote for if I were in congress... delete the tax cuts and halve entitlements. Screw the boomers. Medicare and social security get haircuts.

DeficitHawk says

But if you ask me what change I'd vote for if I were in congress... delete the tax cuts and halve entitlements. Screw the boomers. Medicare and social security get haircuts.

And then the Democrats sweep into power in the next election as armies of angry Greys with time on their hands and many of whom can dissemble and reassemble an M-16 blindfolded thanks to their Vietnam experience and are fed up with living on cat food having their Soc Sec reduced to $800/month.

"I worked my whole life not to get gyped by the Koch Brothers!"

DeficitHawk says

Oh, don't mistake me for an optimist, I am not... I am sure there is NO bill that will reduce the deficit that will pass congress. Both parties are lock step on this.

I hear you. I am an optimist. Imagine how many trillions INsourcing will bring in revenue.

AmericanKulak says

There won't be an America as you know it to save without drastic Immigration Reform.

You seem like a single issue voter: Immigration.. you want no immigration. And you're willing to spend lavishly to achieve that goal, and you dont care if it bankrupts the country.

I totally dont care about that issue, and dont want to spend lavishly on it, and I want the deficit zero'ed out.

DeficitHawk says

You seem like a single issue voter: Immigration.. you want no immigration. And you're willing to spend lavishly to achieve that goal, and you dont care if it bankrupts the country.

$45B dollars in total, including the wall.

The same people who gave us $37T deficits kept dilly-dallying on $5-10B one time for the wall, a pitiful fraction of that amount.

Immigration is killing the country. Along with Outsourcing.

$1.6T in cuts to Entitlements, and that's just the Mandatory Reconciliation Bill, not the Discretionary where all the fun is.

CBO is counting making the current, 2017 Trump tax cuts permanent as most of the "$3-4T in new spending"

AmericanKulak says

And then the Democrats sweep into power in the next election as armies of angry Greys with time on their hands and many of whom can dissemble and reassemble an M-16 blindfolded are fed up with living on cat food having their Soc Sec reduced to $800/month.

We wont have to worry about the greys if we cut medicare enough.

DeficitHawk says

We wont have to worry about the greys if we cut medicare enough.

I'm happy, as long as I get every dime I ever paid into Soc Sec back as a tax-free lump sum at 4% lifetime compounded interest, which is a bargain for the government and a massive concession on my part that I will not inrease. Any less than that and I am voting to keep my Soc Sec.

LOL. Sorry AK I don't inhabit the Bay Area. The zoomers I know are going to do great things. Among them is execute foreign influences on or projecting into US soil. Total cost is fucked, that's the start. Then it's the particulars, how about we start with all Jewish interests like do-the-opposite-of-what-Jews-say. Then we can deport 10,000,000 or shoot them if Somali. And where is my Germano-Jewpuss peacetoken GFD.

Ending Turd Worldization is the biggest priority, as just illustrated.

Who gives a shit about the debt if America is a Cartel Country with some Muslims running a handful of 88s outbred by both but kept as useful castrated janisaries.

AmericanKulak says

The same people who gave us $37T deficits kept dilly-dallying on $5-10B one time for the wall, a pitiful fraction of that amount.

$37T is our debt... added up over all the administrations since Eisenhower, but especially the ones from "W" and on. $37T is not a "those guys did it" thing. Its a "Everyone did it" thing.

Show me the bill that balances the budget and funds the wall. I'd vote for it. I Dont care about the wall one way or the other about the wall. I dont think immigration is ruining our country... but I'd vote for a balanced budget if the wall was in there. Im not opposed to it. I just dont want to deficit spend on it.

Dont you live in florida? isnt it late there?

DeficitHawk says

Show me the bill that balances the budget and funds the wall. I'd vote for it. I Dont care about the wall one way or the other about the wall. I dont think immigration is ruining our country... but I'd vote for a balanced budget if the wall was in there. Im not opposed to it. I just dont want to deficit spend on it.

No bill is going to balance the budget in one swoop. This one is ONLY mandatory spending.

Nobody voted in the last election for shock cuts. They voted to get inflation under control, mass migration stopped, and restore the American dream.

Not a massive collapse by cutting $2T in government spending in one year, and you couldn't do it in one bill anyway.

A bill that would cut $2T in government spending is DOA. Everybody wants to get re-elected.

I agree AK. I don't need national debt if given license to shoot invaders though.

AmericanKulak says

I'm happy, as long as I get every dime I ever paid into Soc Sec back as a tax-free lump sum at 4% lifetime compounded interest, which is a bargain for the government and a massive concession on my part that I will not inrease. Any less than that and I am voting to keep my Soc Sec.

Then you will get the ponzi payout after the ponzi collapses... or we will crush the young people by making them pay for us and hoping the ponzi runs another half generation...

DeficitHawk says

Then you will get the ponzi payout after the ponzi collapses... or we will crush the young people by making them pay for us and hoping the ponzi runs another half generation...

Half the young people are foreign barbarians and will kill me in my old age anyway, just like they are doing in British nursing homes. The other quarter can't leave the house without zanax.

AmericanKulak says

No bill is going to balance the budget in one swoop. This one is ONLY mandatory spending

Mandatory spending is the biggest fraction. Social security and Medicare are HUGE. You cant fix the deficit by just working on discretionary spending. Have to touch mandatory spending, and thats the biggest opportunity. If you pass on this, then you arent serious about doing it. (and yes, I know... they arent serious about doing it)

Everyone wants to go through the non-military discretionary and pick out a few boogeyman projects in there as if that can solve the deficit problem. You cant solve the problem this way. Cutting taxes makes it worse.

Like it or not, the greys, and their social security and medicare are the cause of the problem. Either we tax our way to balance, or we cut those services. or we deficit spend.

DeficitHawk says

Mandatory spending is the biggest fraction. Social security and Medicare are HUGE. You cant fix the deficit by just working on discretionary spending. Have to touch mandatory spending, and thats the biggest opportunity. If you pass on this, then you arent serious about doing it. (and yes, I know... they arent serious about doing it)

Have you read this bill?

It's the biggest entitlement cut and adds more work and qualification requirements than any bill since the 90s.

DeficitHawk says

Like it or not, the greys, and their social security and medicare are the cause of the problem. Either we tax our way to balance, or we cut those services. or we deficit spend.

Bringing in tens of millions of welfare recipients who work off the books, don't contribute into programs but instead sign up all their relatives for food stamps, housing, and taxpayer money laundered to "Charities".

Most of the $37T in debt was not entitlements, but bank and airline bailouts (2-3x times to entire industries and the century is not a quarter over!) and COVID "business loans". Things like Solandra, Chrysler, etc. A trillion for banks as a reward for lending to anybody with a pulse in 2007.

We just found out Biden was paying to stop FHA loans from going delinquent. Including ones made long after 2021.

What would really help is a Corporate Tax AMT. Google, Amazon, etc. pay single digit % of profits in tax. Far less percentage than somebody with a straight median income job.

AmericanKulak says

Have you read this bill?

Oh god no. Im not going to read the bill. I don't think congress will either. I just read the headline result that it increases the deficit. That's all I need to know.

DeficitHawk says

Oh god no. Im not going to read the bill. I don't think congress will either. I just read the headline result that it increases the deficit. That's all I need to know.

And you're aware the CBO by law has to count the 2017 Tax Cuts (the current rates) being made permanent in this bill as trillions in new spending?

Even though the tax cuts were first instituted over 7 years ago?

And does not use reasonable estimates of long term GDP growth from tax cuts when counting the tax cuts as all new spending?

That this just sets the budget and doesn't actually spend any money? And is only, and limited to only, mandatory spending? But there's already a $1.6T permanent cut just in the bill? All of it to entitlements?

DeficitHawk says

AmericanKulak says

who gives a shit about defaulting later?

You sound like Paul Krugman. Always rationalizing why its ok to deficit spend. "Dont worry about it... spend spend spend... there will be no consequences... it will never catch up to us"... That guy never met a spending program he didnt love. I'd hate to be his accountant though.

C'mon say it...that you are in favor of the tariffs because they reduce the deficit.
Betcha can't...probably voids what you're getting paid.

AmericanKulak says

And you're aware the CBO by law has to count the 2017 Tax Cuts (the current rates) being made permanent in this bill as trillions in new spending?

OF course. or rather as revenue cuts. because they ARE revenue cuts compared to current law. If changing the law drives the deficit up, we shouldnt do it.

AmericanKulak says

And does not use reasonable estimates of long term GDP growth from tax cuts when counting the tax cuts as all new spending?

I hear this rationale from Paul Krugman every time. But its never true. If deficit spending produced more growth% than debt%, our debt/gdp ratio would be in secular decline but its its not. Its rising.

Misc says

C'mon say it...that you are in favor of the tariffs because they reduce the deficit.
Betcha can't...probably voids what you're getting paid.

I like the money coming into coffers, but I dont think it will be enough to offset the tax cuts. I also think sales tax/consumption tax like tariffs is a bad way to generate revenue... partly because its regressive and partly because I think it degrades market efficiency by moving low value work onshore instead of high value work.

DeficitHawk says

Misc says

C'mon say it...that you are in favor of the tariffs because they reduce the deficit.
Betcha can't...probably voids what you're getting paid.

I like the money coming into coffers, but I dont think it will be enough to offset the tax cuts. I also think sales tax/consumption tax like tariffs is a bad way to generate revenue... partly because its regressive and partly because I think it degrades market efficiency by moving low value work onshore instead of high value work.

Then why in the world are you in favor of having low skilled illegals come into this country?

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO), a nonpartisan federal agency that has been ridiculed by Republicans, estimated this week that Trump's "big, beautiful bill" would leave 10.9 million people without health insurance, including 1.4 million who are in the country without legal status in state-funded programs.

But Republicans are holding firm in their defense of Medicaid reform, which Republicans say only cuts benefits to illegal immigrants, those ineligible to receive benefits who are currently receiving benefits, duplicate enrollees in one or more states and those who are able but choosing not to work.

"The people who would not continue to get Medicaid benefits under this bill were not qualified to get them in the first place," Sen. John Kennedy, R-La., told Fox News Digital.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/right-down-line-medicaid-reform-big-beautiful-bill-divides-lawmakers-party

The BBB will get 12M off Medicaid according to CBO whingers. No more reimbursement for California, Illinois, NYS, etc. giving medicaid benefits to illegals and the non-qualified but getting federal reimbursement.

DeficitHawk says

I hear this rationale from Paul Krugman every time. But its never true. If deficit spending produced more growth% than debt%, our debt/gdp ratio would be in secular decline but its its not. Its rising.

Not deficit spending, Tax Cuts. And you can't restructure a concern without spending money.

It takes $5000 to deport an illegal,an overstay, a fakefugee, etc. but saves thousands per month in total costs.

I guarantee the CBO isn't factoring in the Medicaid savings of thousands of dollars each and every year going forward by deporting a fat Haitan woman with insulin-dependent diabetes and a heart condition, but IS counting the $5000 it costs to deport her.

Misc says

Then why in the world are you in favor of having low skilled illegals come into this country?

I'd prefer to have legal immigrants and not illegal immigrants. Both low skill and high skill. But the presence of illegals does not worry me enough to spend a lot of effort on dealing with them, unless they are doing some crimes worse than immigrating.

Overall I think we have a deficit of working age people in our population because there are too many olds in USA sucking up the housing stock and public spending while not contributing to taxes, food growth, housing or infrastructure buildout, and this burdens younger people and makes life hard for them. So I think the strategies to combat that are outsourcing and immigration. There is such a thing as "Too much". But "Zero" is not the right amount either. I dont know what the right amount is. Maybe about enough to maintain our working/retired population ratio i suppose. Of course immigration does put strain on our infrastructure and housing stock too.. but also contributes disproportionately to the buildout and increased supply of those things.

Turning the olds into soylent green would also work, but I don't favor that approach. I like the olds in my family, and plan to become one someday. So I prefer outsourcing and immigration. And I think we need to balance our taxes with our spending, including medicare and social security... which may be a bitter pill to swallow.

Another thing that would help the Debt: cut the rates.

“ADP NUMBER OUT!!! ‘Too Late’ Powell must now LOWER THE RATE,” Trump wrote on Truth Social.

“He is unbelievable!!!” the president said of the central bank chairman, whom he has frequently pressured to shave borrowing rates in hopes of spurring economic growth.

“Europe has lowered NINE TIMES!” Trump added.

I'm comfortable lowering the rate now since the housing market downturn is baked in and going to happen by sheer demographic force.

DeficitHawk says

I'd prefer to have legal immigrants and not illegal immigrants. Both low skill and high skill. But the presence of illegals does not worry me enough to spend a lot of effort on dealing with them, unless they are doing some crimes worse than immigrating

By your logic., the US should be running a huge budget surplus. We have about 20 million extra people in this country than there should be. If they were following the law then the taxes these folks would pay would be enormous.

Unfortunately. they are a drain on the country's resources instead of benefitting us. You would like .American taxpayers to pay for this instead of forcing the illegals to pay for the benefits they are stealing from Regular Americans. Including having the government go further into debt to pay for the upkeep of these illegals.

Modern monetary theory. MMT.

Deficits don’t matter.

We live in clown world. Fools argue about deficit spending as if nations operate by the same financial principles as your personal finances.

Here is a hint. The same “banks” that funded the building of the German military prior to and during the Second World War, funded the Soviets later in the war. Governments, in collusion with international banking cartels, create money out of thin air and reward nations for doing the bidding of the globalists.

Keep arguing about deficits, you are wasting your time.

If you care about fiscal responsibility, get rid of the banking cartels and the corrupt leaders who they use to control government.

You want to eliminate the deficit? Eliminate the globalists. Lock them up and let them live like the people they enslaved.

AmericanKulak says

‘Too Late’ Powell must now LOWER THE RATE,” Trump wrote on Truth Social.

Of course Trump will say this. He needs to pre-identify his scape goat in case there is a recession.

But Powell can only really control short term rates. IF he cuts too soon, long term rates will spike due to people expecting inflation. This has already happened just recently, in the current rate cutting cycle. Powell knows he is right on the edge.

They will cut eventually. But people calling him 'Too Late Powell" either dont care about inflation and long term bond yields, or will just blame Powell for that too if it happens.

PeopleUnited says

Modern monetary theory. MMT.

Deficits don’t matter.

We live in clown world.

I mean... thats one way to try to run the country. Zimbabwe did it... they are doing... fine? I guess??

Maybe we can have a 100 trillion dollar bill with Trumps face on it!

I dont believe in MMT. I dont believe in "Spend spend spend, there are no consequences". I dont believe "Tax cuts produce proportionally more growth than debt". I dont believe in abandoning fiscal restraint. I dont believe in Paul Krugman.

Markets may suspend disbelief for a while... maybe much longer than I would have guessed... but sooner or later our chronically growing deficits and lack of resolve to pay down the debt will end in a hyperinflation event or default.

The first signs will be long term bond yields increasing... at some point fed intervention will just produce the opposite of what was intended, raising long term rates instead of lowering them when money supply is increased.. At first orderly, but then disorderly. Eventually there would be failed treasuries auctions or yield spikes.

Its not happening yet... but I think it could happen. I don't buy long term treasury bonds anymore, I stick to <3 month maturities... and I'm clinging to my 2% fixed mortgage with a death grip.

While I agree that the bill needs to cut more spending and was pork laden it is not that simple. MMT while junk can work if all countries deficit spend as well, so debt becomes relative. You'll see bond yields blowing out and the dollar crater only and only if other countries dump US debt and balance their budgets. Right now for most countries to stop doing business with the US would mean to impose significant austerity onto their own citizens, and so far nobody has even hinted at it. If the US does not pay their debt one day or hyper inflates it which is pretty much the same there would suddenly be a gaping hole in the debtors nations budgets. A debt jubilee where debt is reset in a relative manner and countries settle on pennies on the dollar is much more likely.

mell says

You'll see bond yields blowing out and the dollar crater only and only if other countries dump US debt and balance their budgets.

I wonder about this. I get it that if the US dollar is the cleanest of the dirty shirts, then that's the one people will choose to wear.

BUT at what point do arms-reach investors just not want to buy government debt as an asset class anymore? I for one wont buy long term US treasuries. I liquidated all of them out of my accounts and 401ks, etc.. I'd rather buy gold or land or something that I can count on to still hold value after hyperinflation. At what point do other people and institutions stop wanting to buy this asset class? MMT seems to ignore the idea that people could attempt to escape the debt/asset system and hold their wealth in other assets... refusing to buy the monopoly-money-debt.

I dont have any bitcoin... but I think the valuation of bitcoin is a sign of the times as people explore ways to escape the monopoly money.

Exactly Mell. The house of cards will crash, but not until the globalists want it to crash. Then, the great reset satanic globalist new world order takes full control, a Techno-dictatorship like none other in human history. So there is not point in arguing about federal deficits. Maybe spend less? Sure. Good idea. Congress is Congress. Let’s not pretend we have any sway with Congress.

News flash, Congress passes bills. Most of them suck. Has always been this way. But if arguing about deficits makes you happy. Enjoy your shouting into the wind.

DeficitHawk says

thats one way to try to run the country. Zimbabwe did

Suggesting that Zimbabwe is a harbinger of America’s future is nominated for best comment ever on Patnet. I mean Zimbabwe is exactly like America in every way! “As Zimbabwe goes, so goes The USA” my grandpa always reminded us!

Zimbabwe... I mean they were the most powerful economy on earth until inflation killed their currency, remember? People were moving to Zimbabwe from all over the world for education and technology and freedom and prosperity unrivaled on the world stage. For over a century they were the driving force in technology and freedom. They had the strongest military in the world until they spent themselves in to destitution. Since the beginning Zimbabwe, was a city on a hill, a beacon in a dark world. Too bad they wrecked it all with deficits.

Yes, Zimbabwe. Good point. Well played sir.

“Throw your grandparents off Social Security so we can import a gajillion H1B visas” was rejected at the ballot box

PeopleUnited says

Yes, Zimbabwe. Good point. Well played sir.

Are you saying that hyperinflation can not happen to the United States because it is a more powerful nation than Zimbabwe was?

The dynamics of debt, expectations of inflation, and trust of intentions to pay the debt all still apply to big or small nations. If the US turns its monetary policy into a political entity, and gives control to short term politicians who only care about the next election, we will wind up exactly like Zimbabwe did. Every administration wants to give the gift of free money, even at the expense of degrading trust in debt repayment. Debt repayment is always the next administrations problem.

I agree the US gets some latitude because our currency is entrenched as the reserve currency, and there is great resistance to upturning that... but it doesnt mean that it wont happen. I don't buy long term bonds anymore because I don't trust the discipline or intention of the US government to repay them, and I think I will just get monopoly money in repayment if I buy them.