patrick.net

Fortwaye says

who says get rid of Trump? i want to stop government from borrowing from our kids futures.

This is a reconciliation bill.

It can only deal with mandatory spending like Medicare and Food Stamps. It cannot encompass discretionary spending like Federal Grants to Transgender Turkeys Tallies. Or DOGE, which was almost entirely Discretionary spending

It is singular in that in only requires 50 Senate Votes to pass (with Vance breaking the tie) because reconciliation bills can't be filibustered by law.

This part of the Byrd Rule, and to make other bills require only a majority vote to pass, you'd need 60 senators to agree, which isn't going to happen.

It makes permanent the current tax rates which were cut in 2017 as well as adding some new tax cuts

It is the biggest reduction in welfare in 30+ years, including expanding work requirements and closing many loopholes California, NY, and other states used to give Medicaid to Illegals and other non-qualified persons (the Foreign Grandma who never worked a day in the USA getting Medicare/Medicaid situation fake-abandoned by wealthy family members who are dining with her every night).

It does greatly expand the ICE/DHS budget for border security and deportations by many billions, which is necessary because buses and planes run on gas, and lawyers fighting off Catholic Charities, HIAC, and LIRS don't work for free.

CBO uses an accounting gimmick to count the 2017 cuts, always meant to be permanent, as spending new money when made permanent.

Since it cannot encompass discretionary spending, making any Total Budget Forecasts how much it will or won't 10 years from now is dishonest and deliberately so.

It is not a ten-year budget bill. Another reason why claims of "Raises Debt X Trillion over a decade" is bullshit.

It does not codify DOGE because it can't. The vast majority of DOGE discoveries were discretionary spending items.

The BBB doesn't even spend money. It only sets the budget for spending.

If you keep everything else outside the scope of the BBB as it was in the last bill, the BBB would indeed cut spending over $1.6T - even if it spent the entire budget.

you are not correct, i’ve heard senators last week saying that they could cut stuff from budget and discretionary in this bill. and you think they are in some form limited.

here is one of the interviews about it:
https://tuckercarlson.com/tucker-show-ron-johnson

cuts don’t kick in till 4 years from now. tax cuts are bullshit cuts for unions, overtime. no tax on tips is gimmick for few years.

cbo hasn’t counted Trump tax cuts in estimated, so deficit will balloon.

Fortwaye says

cuts don’t kick in till 4 years from now. tax cuts are bullshit cuts for unions, overtime. no tax on tips is gimmick for few years.

Completely wrong. The 2017 tax cuts become permanent as intended, which counts as "Spending" by the rules governing the CBO.

It's far more important we crush mass migration than balance the budget.

Here's another truth: There is no debt ceiling. It's pure performative BS the swamp uses to force legislators - or give them an excuse - to just pass spending bills and not have long, drawn out, year long budget battles

"OMG if we don't get an agreement with the other party in a few weeks, the debt ceiling will be hit! We have to just increase budgets 2-3% and make a deal fast or we'll collapse the economy! We don't have time to have a long spending fight!;

All Swamp BS.

BTW, Elon has seen the BBB for weeks, more evidence he either had a shitfit over Mass Migration reduction, or more likely this is theater.

there is debt ceiling, they can’t borrow more without approval. that’s whole point, otherwise it’s unlimited credit card.

Fortwaye says

there is debt ceiling, they can’t borrow more without approval. that’s whole point, otherwise it’s unlimited credit card.

Where in the Constitution is a debt ceiling?

It's all made up rules by Congress that can be changed

It comes down to debt load such as debt service or payment as a percentage of tax revenue or receipts and debt as a percentage of GDP.

Its no different than for a household as far as debt load or for a business.

Debt to GDP ratio now at 120%, it was 107% just before pandemic started and has been over 100% since January 2014

AmericanKulak says

Where in the Constitution is a debt ceiling?

It's all made up rules by Congress that can be changed

Whether to ISSUE the debt and spend the money is totally up to congress.

Whether to PAY the debt after it is issued is guaranteed by the constitution 14th amendment. So default would be unconstitutional.

While I DO think balancing the budget is good policy and should be prioritized.... I have ZERO hope that this will be the outcome of the current fiscal fiasco created by both parties. Both parties have acclimated themselves not only to deficits, but INCREASING deficits over time.. each administration seeks to set a new record. The notion of holding the deficit merely constant is fringe in both parties.... Bringing the deficit to zero is unthinkable to both parties, since it would required entitlement/mandatory spending cuts. I think the only way this will occur is by financial crisis, which I think is what will eventually occur.

AmericanKulak says

Fortwaye says

there is debt ceiling, they can’t borrow more without approval. that’s whole point, otherwise it’s unlimited credit card.

Where in the Constitution is a debt ceiling?

It's all made up rules by Congress that can be changed

everything in constitution can be changed. what’s your point?

Fortwaye says

everything in constitution can be changed. what’s your point?

Constitution is MUCH harder to change and requires much broader consensus than just changing laws....
Debt ceiling is just a law, fully within the purview of congress to change.

Im totally with you on not borrowing from our kids future.... hence my user name.

AmericanKulak says

BTW, Elon has seen the BBB for weeks, more evidence he either had a shitfit over Mass Migration reduction, or more likely this is theater.

I dont know.. I think he could be genuinely annoyed that the bill is undermining efforts to reduce deficit spending. I think the motives you ascribe are a stretch.

This is the guy who was dancing on stage with a chainsaw... and just got done cutting most of Twitter/X budget to try to balance its budget. I think he may be genuinely interested in reducing spending and annoyed that the bill re-up's the deficit. I think he has a bit of an ego and believes that he can cut the budget effectively. Whether that is true is another story, but I think he believes it, and thats what motivates his frustrations lately.

I'm sure glad the government hasn't done anything Unconstitutional - Ever -- Giggles to self

What planet do people live on thinking a piece of paper can change reality.

DeficitHawk says

I dont know.. I think he could be genuinely annoyed that the bill is undermining efforts to reduce deficit spending. I think the motives you ascribe are a stretch.

The last time Musk had a flipout, what was it about?

This bill cuts over $1.6T in entitlements, permanently - and this is just the mandatory side. Biggest welfare cuts since the 1990s.

We haven't gotten to the discretionary bill yet.

Trump's top issues - and why he was elected was - Border, Inflation, and Rebuilding America. He wasn't elected to create instant cuts and couldn't if he wanted to thanks to Congress.

This bill is great on Border Control and Deportation, cuts the hell out of medicaid and food stamp eligibility for non-US citizens and increases the work requirement, and imposes an additional 3.5% tax on remittances which should be 20%. Every foreigner here should be paying $20 in taxes to send $100 back via Western Union. Many are not supposed to be here, but if they are, then America First. That goes for H1Bs, too.

This is why we lose. They get the best bill in probably 30 years for spending that also codifies multiple MAGA policies, considering the flimsiest majority in the House, and it's all but certain to pass...

Today a guy was moping that there was 4-5 billion more bucks (for trade schools) in a budget (not yet spent, just the desired budget) in a bill with a trillion and a half in cuts.

And FULLY Funds the Border Wall. And billions for deportations (which avg. $5k each)

Fuck this heap of shit. Elon is right, Massie is right, Cantillon effect pigs of course are full-press for jus' one! more!

Massie voted for the 2023 Budget Buster that keep all the COVID spending PLUS some, and lasted 20 months from June 2023 until Feb 2023 for Xiden. And gave Xiden a debt ceiling increase. During an election year.

But whinged about Trump wanting 20 days or so.

So he can go fuck himself.

It's a fact. Turn off Tuqar Qarlson and go look.

If you buy Mass Migration Massie, that has never passed a bill in his 13 long years in Congress, though he did cosponsor a bill to allow the extended families of H1Bs to come and get a work permit, and his bullshit... wake up.

By the way, if we don't control Mass Migration, who gives a shit about defaulting later? We'll be a Turd World Country with a Turd World Majority at that point.

AmericanKulak says

They get the best bill in probably 30 years for spending that also codifies multiple MAGA policies

Depends if your priorities are the spending programs and tax cuts, or the deficit reduction.

If your priority is deficit reduction, this bill is going the wrong direction. It increases the deficit. Some of us think the deficit is too big and want it smaller.

I don't care about any details besides 10,000,000 deports per year or no deal. That's not going to happen so shut this shit off. At least protection will be offlined soon. Fucking put Fleccas Talk in charge of homeland security I don't need any of this shit. If they pass it in current form I will consider my "government" hostile to me despite strong evidence already.

AmericanKulak says

who gives a shit about defaulting later?

You sound like Paul Krugman. Always rationalizing why its ok to deficit spend. "Dont worry about it... spend spend spend... there will be no consequences... it will never catch up to us"... That guy never met a spending program he didnt love. I'd hate to be his accountant though.

DeficitHawk says

Depends if your priorities are the spending programs and tax cuts, or the deficit reduction.

If your priority is deficit reduction, this bill is going the wrong direction. It increases the deficit. Some of us think the deficit is too big and want it smaller.

This bill is a good step in that direction, the best in 20-30 years, attacking entitlements directly, AND has great MAGA policies like Immigration Reform which was a top 3 issue.

With a tiny majority in the House, and a not-Filibuster proof majority in the Senate, tell me SPECIFICALLY what bill you'd propose that will actually pass.

Because a bill that is great but doesn't pass doesn't do anything.

Even my esteemed man Crane is pushing the Big Faggot Bundle. Fuck this shit. Zoomers: THE FUCKING FUCKERS ARE FUCKING YOU IN REAL TIME RIGHT NOW, NO MORE!

I've had enough coin clipping. Fuck these people.

DeficitHawk says

You sound like Paul Krugman. Always rationalizing why its ok to deficit spend. "Dont worry about it... spend spend spend... there will be no consequences... it will never catch up to us"... That guy never met a spending program he didnt love. I'd hate to be his accountant though.

Nope. There won't be an America as you know it to save without drastic Immigration Reform.

Defaults are no big deal. France defaulted several times in the 19th Century and entered the 20th Century as a Top 3 Power with immense strength and prestige and a far higher standard of living.

steverbeaver says

Even my esteemed man Crane is pushing the Big Faggot Bundle. Fuck this shit. Zoomers: THE FUCKING FUCKERS ARE FUCKING YOU IN REAL TIME RIGHT NOW, NO MORE!

Oh no, the children who are scared to go outside are getting upset. Somebody hand them a Camomile Vape.

Still waiting for specifics drastic big fat bill they have that will actually pass. Certainly Massie and Rand must have a bill with all their energy they put into grandstanding and complaining, right?

AmericanKulak says

what bill you'd propose that will actually pass.

Oh, don't mistake me for an optimist, I am not... I am sure there is NO bill that will reduce the deficit that will pass congress. Both parties are lock step on this.

But if you ask me what change I'd vote for if I were in congress... delete the tax cuts and halve entitlements. Screw the boomers. Medicare and social security get haircuts.

DeficitHawk says

But if you ask me what change I'd vote for if I were in congress... delete the tax cuts and halve entitlements. Screw the boomers. Medicare and social security get haircuts.

And then the Democrats sweep into power in the next election as armies of angry Greys with time on their hands and many of whom can dissemble and reassemble an M-16 blindfolded thanks to their Vietnam experience and are fed up with living on cat food having their Soc Sec reduced to $800/month.

"I worked my whole life not to get gyped by the Koch Brothers!"

DeficitHawk says

Oh, don't mistake me for an optimist, I am not... I am sure there is NO bill that will reduce the deficit that will pass congress. Both parties are lock step on this.

I hear you. I am an optimist. Imagine how many trillions INsourcing will bring in revenue.

AmericanKulak says

There won't be an America as you know it to save without drastic Immigration Reform.

You seem like a single issue voter: Immigration.. you want no immigration. And you're willing to spend lavishly to achieve that goal, and you dont care if it bankrupts the country.

I totally dont care about that issue, and dont want to spend lavishly on it, and I want the deficit zero'ed out.

DeficitHawk says

You seem like a single issue voter: Immigration.. you want no immigration. And you're willing to spend lavishly to achieve that goal, and you dont care if it bankrupts the country.

$45B dollars in total, including the wall.

The same people who gave us $37T deficits kept dilly-dallying on $5-10B one time for the wall, a pitiful fraction of that amount.

Immigration is killing the country. Along with Outsourcing.

$1.6T in cuts to Entitlements, and that's just the Mandatory Reconciliation Bill, not the Discretionary where all the fun is.

CBO is counting making the current, 2017 Trump tax cuts permanent as most of the "$3-4T in new spending"

AmericanKulak says

And then the Democrats sweep into power in the next election as armies of angry Greys with time on their hands and many of whom can dissemble and reassemble an M-16 blindfolded are fed up with living on cat food having their Soc Sec reduced to $800/month.

We wont have to worry about the greys if we cut medicare enough.

DeficitHawk says

We wont have to worry about the greys if we cut medicare enough.

I'm happy, as long as I get every dime I ever paid into Soc Sec back as a tax-free lump sum at 4% lifetime compounded interest, which is a bargain for the government and a massive concession on my part that I will not inrease. Any less than that and I am voting to keep my Soc Sec.

LOL. Sorry AK I don't inhabit the Bay Area. The zoomers I know are going to do great things. Among them is execute foreign influences on or projecting into US soil. Total cost is fucked, that's the start. Then it's the particulars, how about we start with all Jewish interests like do-the-opposite-of-what-Jews-say. Then we can deport 10,000,000 or shoot them if Somali. And where is my Germano-Jewpuss peacetoken GFD.

Ending Turd Worldization is the biggest priority, as just illustrated.

Who gives a shit about the debt if America is a Cartel Country with some Muslims running a handful of 88s outbred by both but kept as useful castrated janisaries.

AmericanKulak says

The same people who gave us $37T deficits kept dilly-dallying on $5-10B one time for the wall, a pitiful fraction of that amount.

$37T is our debt... added up over all the administrations since Eisenhower, but especially the ones from "W" and on. $37T is not a "those guys did it" thing. Its a "Everyone did it" thing.

Show me the bill that balances the budget and funds the wall. I'd vote for it. I Dont care about the wall one way or the other about the wall. I dont think immigration is ruining our country... but I'd vote for a balanced budget if the wall was in there. Im not opposed to it. I just dont want to deficit spend on it.

Dont you live in florida? isnt it late there?

DeficitHawk says

Show me the bill that balances the budget and funds the wall. I'd vote for it. I Dont care about the wall one way or the other about the wall. I dont think immigration is ruining our country... but I'd vote for a balanced budget if the wall was in there. Im not opposed to it. I just dont want to deficit spend on it.

No bill is going to balance the budget in one swoop. This one is ONLY mandatory spending.

Nobody voted in the last election for shock cuts. They voted to get inflation under control, mass migration stopped, and restore the American dream.

Not a massive collapse by cutting $2T in government spending in one year, and you couldn't do it in one bill anyway.

A bill that would cut $2T in government spending is DOA. Everybody wants to get re-elected.

I agree AK. I don't need national debt if given license to shoot invaders though.

AmericanKulak says

I'm happy, as long as I get every dime I ever paid into Soc Sec back as a tax-free lump sum at 4% lifetime compounded interest, which is a bargain for the government and a massive concession on my part that I will not inrease. Any less than that and I am voting to keep my Soc Sec.

Then you will get the ponzi payout after the ponzi collapses... or we will crush the young people by making them pay for us and hoping the ponzi runs another half generation...

DeficitHawk says

Then you will get the ponzi payout after the ponzi collapses... or we will crush the young people by making them pay for us and hoping the ponzi runs another half generation...

Half the young people are foreign barbarians and will kill me in my old age anyway, just like they are doing in British nursing homes. The other quarter can't leave the house without zanax.

AmericanKulak says

No bill is going to balance the budget in one swoop. This one is ONLY mandatory spending

Mandatory spending is the biggest fraction. Social security and Medicare are HUGE. You cant fix the deficit by just working on discretionary spending. Have to touch mandatory spending, and thats the biggest opportunity. If you pass on this, then you arent serious about doing it. (and yes, I know... they arent serious about doing it)

Everyone wants to go through the non-military discretionary and pick out a few boogeyman projects in there as if that can solve the deficit problem. You cant solve the problem this way. Cutting taxes makes it worse.

Like it or not, the greys, and their social security and medicare are the cause of the problem. Either we tax our way to balance, or we cut those services. or we deficit spend.