patrick.net

Just got one of my sales engineers in Idaho to buy a Tesla Model Y. He turned in his tricked out Ford Maverick (poor man's Raptor) and he is absolutely loving it so far. He told this morning he is shocked at how awesome it is for road trips from Boise to Idaho Falls.

That said - he does have a free month trial of the latest Full Self Driving, so he has the latest and greatest version.

In addition to driving a couple thousand miles a month for work, the dude is in the army reserves, hunts, skiis and travels all over the mountain west. He is 6'7" tall too and said he has plenty of room.

WookieMan says

Also if your kid is that stupid to hit another car you should probably parent better (not you specifically).

Maybe. But there is no denying that minivans are popular because of their sliding doors, not despite of them. Peace of mind is peace of mind.

socal2 says

Just got one of my sales engineers in Idaho to buy a Tesla Model Y. He turned in his tricked out Ford Maverick (poor man's Raptor) and he is absolutely loving it so far. He told this morning he is shocked at how awesome it is for road trips from Boise to Idaho Falls.

That said - he does have a free month trial of the latest Full Self Driving, so he has the latest and greatest version.

In addition to driving a couple thousand miles a month for work, the dude is in the army reserves, hunts, skiis and travels all over the mountain west. He is 6'7" tall too and said he has plenty of room.

Wait until he needs to charge it somewhere out of the way...which is most of Idaho.

Wait until winter comes and the battery can barely charge enough like before.

socal2 says

Just got one of my sales engineers in Idaho to buy a Tesla Model Y. He turned in his tricked out Ford Maverick (poor man's Raptor) and he is absolutely loving it so far. He told this morning he is shocked at how awesome it is for road trips from Boise to Idaho Falls.

That said - he does have a free month trial of the latest Full Self Driving, so he has the latest and greatest version.

In addition to driving a couple thousand miles a month for work, the dude is in the army reserves, hunts, skiis and travels all over the mountain west. He is 6'7" tall too and said he has plenty of room.

One of my relatives who's very ga-ga on everything Tesla (and has been uninvited from pretty much everywhere because all he does at parties is talking about FSD this and FSD that until everybody's eyes roll into their skulls) never takes his AWD Model Y on skiing trips. This is when trusty 4Runner comes out of the garage. I think he did once take his MY to Utah. Don't know what happened there, but it's been 4Runner from then on.

DemocratsAreTotallyFucked says

Wait until he needs to charge it somewhere out of the way...which is most of Idaho.

The country.

Haha, you’re bragging that you hooked another sucker?

DemocratsAreTotallyFucked says

Wait until he needs to charge it somewhere out of the way...which is most of Idaho.

Wait until winter comes and the battery can barely charge enough like before.

Dude is an engineer and has done his research.

This is a great site where you can map your drives to figure out what charging you need. You can adjust for temperature, weather, weight in car, model and battery charge level.
https://abetterrouteplanner.com/

My other Sales Engineer in remote Oregon has had his Tesla for almost 2 years now (40,000 miles driven so far) and has had no problems driving all over the Mountain and Northwest in all weather conditions.

GNL says

Haha, you’re bragging that you hooked another sucker?

He's been thanking me all week saying "I should have done this sooner".

It was after his family vacation last month to the Olympic National Park (8+ hour drive from Boise) followed by an unexpected business trip to Eastern Idaho the Monday he returned from his vacation that finally got him to pull the trigger.

Difficult to express how nice autopilot is for long trips. You arrive at your destination so much more refreshed and comfortable.

Dude is also going to save a ton of money on gas since he can expense his business miles and his electricity at home is dirt cheap.

Hydrogen powered vehicles will put the faux green electrics in the junkyard. Plus, they are the truly environmentally friendly ones (exhaust is water). They have been suppressed by the usual suspects for the usual reasons, but are now starting production through Asia and Toyota.

Ceffer says

Plus, they are the truly environmentally friendly ones

Do you realize you just quoted some level one dumbassery from Shrub?

Cars that will run on hydrogen fuel produce only water, not exhaust fumes….

How is hydrogen made? Don't say 'electrolysis' because commercially produced hydrogen mostly is not, but through processes like pyrolysis of natural gas or steam reforming of coal.

But either way, it costs too much. It is not a source of energy but merely a carrier.

From an extensive article on this topic by Robert Zubrin:

The trouble is that making hydrogen requires more energy than the hydrogen so produced can provide. Hydrogen, therefore, is not a source of energy. It simply is a carrier of energy.

And it is, as we shall see, an extremely poor one.

The wholesale cost of commercial grade liquid hydrogen (made the cheap way, from hydrocarbons) shipped to large customers in the United States is about $6 per kilogram. High purity hydrogen made from electrolysis for scientific applications costs considerably more. Dispensed in compressed gas cylinders to retail customers, the current price of commercial grade hydrogen is about $100 per kilogram. For comparison, a kilogram of hydrogen contains about the same amount of energy as a gallon of gasoline. This means that even if hydrogen cars were available and hydrogen stations existed to fuel them, no one with the power to choose otherwise would ever buy such vehicles. This fact alone makes the hydrogen economy a non-starter in a free society.

2007 prices in those cost figures ^^

The hydrogen refueling stations for the Toyota Murai currently charge $36/kg. A drastic increase from $17/kg from the year before.

So either significant improvement has been achieved since Zubrin wrote his article in hydrogen production, distribution & storage, or it is being subsidized.

It costs $200 to fill up a Murai. And it only gets at most 400 miles out of all that. Usually it avgs at 300 miles. So it is STILL uneconomical as hell.

Murai 2024 fueling costs source: https://www.topspeed.com/how-much-costs-to-refill-hydrogen-powered-toyota-mirai/

Zubrin then goes on to thoroughly detail other costs, like metal embrittlement of storage and distribution equipment, costs from pressurization or cryogenic storage, etc.

Oh, and like EVs, it can be quite polluting. Just front loaded before it gets put into your car, is all.

https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/the-hydrogen-hoax

I'm not so sure. You have to realize they give us what they want and slander what they don't want, including nuclear power. It's standard operating procedure for technology that can replace the Rockefeller/Globalist paradigms for the plans they make for energy fails.

However, I will look into it and see if a deep dive reveals anything, but nothing I have read indicates that it is either that expensive or that compromising. Santa Cruz of all places has a hydrogen vehicle filling station. Also, as economies of scale take place and distribution channels improve, stuff gets cheaper.

Gasoline is a carrier of energy, too, as is uranium and lithium batteries, and they also have associated costs, so I don't really get the 'carrier of energy' angle.

Trying to scope the perspective of "The New Atlantis" is not clear to me either.

"The journal's name is taken from Francis Bacon's utopian novella New Atlantis, which the journal's editors describe as a "fable of a society living with the benefits and challenges of advanced science and technology".[4] An editorial in the inaugural issue states that the aim of the journal is "to help us avoid the extremes of euphoria and despair that new technologies too often arouse; and to help us judge when mobilizing our technological prowess is sensible or necessary, and when the preservation of things that count requires limiting the kinds of technological power that would lessen, cheapen, or ultimately destroy us."

That's quite an editorial position, and not one that seems promising. Helping us to avoid what, exactly? Why do I need help avoiding? Sounds like biased fact checking by another name.

socal2 says

It was after his family vacation last month to the Olympic National Park (8+ hour drive from Boise)

How many stops? I can drive to Duluth, MN from where I live ~7 hours without stopping. Leave by 5am and I'm up there for lunch. 100% cannot do that in an EV. I'm talking a V8 full sized SUV. That's for sure 2 charging stops. If you can find them in that part of Wisconsin. 5 people and luggage for a week. No EV can do that.

You guys live on an island West of the Rockies. It's not reality in most of the country.

my neighbor got cybertruck. it has nice tech. all wheels turn, self driving (although not trusting it), wicked fast. we took it to Utah with trailer, it used about 70% charge before we got to charge station. cost of driving it is about half or less of gas when charging at stations. it has its positives. i personally like ford lightning more, but it’s way too expensive.

don’t know
how long battery will last, thats big unknown. i know laptop batteries go out after several years and don’t hold any charge. hopefully cars are better.

cautious me says hybrids are best bang for the buck these days.

FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says

how long battery will last, thats big unknown. i know laptop batteries go out after several years and don’t hold any charge. hopefully cars are better.

Tesla provides an 8 year or 100,000 mile warranty on batteries. They have the best and most sophisticated thermal system keeping the batteries healthy unlike the crap Nissan Leafs.

One of my clients has an 11 year old Model S with 180,000 miles and his battery has only had about 10% degradation.

WookieMan says

How many stops? I can drive to Duluth, MN from where I live ~7 hours without stopping. Leave by 5am and I'm up there for lunch.

Most human beings couldn't or wouldn't want to do that level of driving without stopping.

That level of driving would require about 2 stops for 15 minutes to charge with a Tesla. So it would add at least 30 minutes to your drive.

A Tesla would get you to Duluth by 1:00PM and you will be much more rested and relaxed using Autopilot.

socal2 says

WookieMan says

How many stops? I can drive to Duluth, MN from where I live ~7 hours without stopping. Leave by 5am and I'm up there for lunch.

Most human beings couldn't or wouldn't want to do that level of driving without stopping.

That level of driving would require about 2 stops for 15 minutes to charge with a Tesla. So it would add at least 30 minutes to your drive.

A Tesla would get you to Duluth by 1:00PM and you will be much more rested and relaxed using Autopilot.

No I wouldn't. I like physical driving. I don't care for the tech. I'd never trust it to save me. I'm a no radio, no phone driver. I don't trust almost anyone especially other drivers. I'd bet my driving record is more impeccable than anyone that's driven a Tesla for 10 years. Over 20 years, but Tesla wasn't around. I haven't been pulled over in 22 years and even then it was only twice for mild speeding and I don't do that anymore.

Not trying to be a dick, but you also don't know Wisconsin. It's not going to be a 15 minute stop. I just want to get to my destination. I drive 7 hours frequently. I just burn through it. I'm sitting. It's literally no physical exertion. Cruise control. I can drive with my knee. I'd have a fucking panic attack if I let a car drive itself. Maybe just me, but I ain't changing and I'm not blowing an hour on an easy drive. I'd usually do 14 hours straight to the panhandle of FL. No biggie.

Consumer Reports video on Tesla:

DemocratsAreTotallyFucked says

Consumer Reports video on Tesla:

A Tesla's charge port is on the side of the car. Maybe she is thinking of the Buicks long ago that had the gas filler tube under the license plate. Just get behind the car, pull down the cover (license plate) stick in the tube and pump in the fluid.

HeadSet says

A Tesla's charge port is on the side of the car. Maybe she is thinking of the Buicks long ago that had the gas filler tube under the license plate. Just get behind the car, pull down the cover (license plate) stick in the tube and pump in the fluid.

Besides the annoying tat sleeve, she's not wrong about Tesla. They're gay looking cars. The Cyber Truck is like the Pontiac Aztek. The only reason I'd get a cyber truck is as an investment. In 20-30 when it's "vintage" it will be worth a ton because they will stop production of them in the next 5 years after the market is saturated.

I'll beat the horse dead on this topic, but until they get a full sized SUV with range, I'll never buy one. Even then I'm not gonna fork over the likely $150k price tag it would require. And I don't have the patience to sit at a charging station for 30 minutes to get 200 more miles.

HeadSet says

A Tesla's charge port is on the side of the car

Looks to be in the back of the car to me. That's sure as hell not the front or middle. But not too far from where gasoline pumps go in ICE cars, too.

DemocratsAreTotallyFucked says

Looks to be in the back of the car to me. That's sure as hell not the front or middle. But not too far from where gasoline pumps go in ICE cars, too.

Does it matter really? I know I wouldn't be caught driving that. What can it do? Haul a family of 4 to the local Chili's for dinner and then you have to plug it in at night. Sign me up.... not.

I probably live different than most users here is my guess. We do things with our vehicles. I tow at least twice a week. Regardless of the charging plug, what use is that car? Seriously. I'll take this 10 out of 10 times https://www.toyota.com/sequoia/

Has a 3rd row. ~9k towing capacity. Can fit 8. 400 miles on gas that takes 5 minutes to fill up tops. Is $30-40k cheaper than a Cyber Truck. So I've saved 6-8 years of gas and insurance already. I really want someone to change my mind on EV's. I don't want self driving. EV's cost more by 20% at least, so you're not saving money there. What is the point?

No one anywhere has sold me on them remotely. I have friends that have them and said it was a midlife crisis purchase and they just wanted one. No different than a corvette or some other sports car. I'm waiting for someone to come up with a logical reason to drop $20k more on a car than necessary.

I find statements like "oh, it's such a grind to go to a gas station once a two or three weeks" or "it's so hellishly tiresome to drive 300 miles on an Indiana freeway w/o a dozen of driver aids" hilariously overblown. It's not and it's not. Maybe (and if) I'm 90 and in poor health, but not now. Thank God.

But! But Tesla! <- is what our Tesla Fluffers on PatNet will say.

Heading them off at that pass: Fuck Tesla, this is an EV thread, not a Tesla-only thread.

DemocratsAreTotallyFucked says

This will be annual everywhere and it's low. Just wait EV owners. I wouldn't be shocked to see $500 annual registration fees in some states. Mostly northern states with freeze thaw. Even the sedans are heavy as fuck because of the batteries. Factor in price of any EV for a comparable ICE car and you're in the hole $10k easy out the gate without the higher registration.

EV's are like giving a liberal a gun and they shoot themselves in the foot. Oh well. I'll keep my gas guzzler.

DemocratsAreTotallyFucked says

But! But Tesla! <- is what our Tesla Fluffers on PatNet will say.

Heading them off at that pass: Fuck Tesla, this is an EV thread, not a Tesla-only thread.

Eh? Tesla would take about the same (or more, due to bigger battery) to fully charge on a 110V outlet. Not sure what's news here exactly. That woman being a stupid cunt who didn't do her homework before plunking down a chunk of cash?

Eric Holder says

Eh? Tesla would take about the same (or more, due to bigger battery) to fully charge on a 110V outlet. Not sure what's news here exactly. That woman being a stupid cunt who didn't do her homework before plunking down a chunk of cash?

Yeah, you need at least 220V on a 50amp breaker. The funny part is if you have natural gas, LED lights, efficient appliances, etc. you could power a 1,500 sq. ft. house on that. But that's what you'd need to power a car. Ain't cheap to run that at home either. Looking at $3-5k for electric install on top of overpaying for an EV. Talking a sedan too. CT or a Rivian would be even more. At least $20k in the hole.

How much gas is that? Oil change? All other maintenance is pretty similar. Maybe a starter or muffler. Still way cheaper for an ICE. Better range. Easier fill up.

WookieMan says

Looking at $3-5k for electric install on top of overpaying for an EV.

May be $3k for an attached garage where you only have to fish through drywall and 2x4's. 220VAC 50A requires 3x6AWG conductors and a ground wire. If you have a detached garage you'll be running that through Schedule 80/40PVC at 18inch depth or IMT conduit (metal) at 12 inch depth with the appropriate sub panel and isolated grounding rods installed in the out building. Around here you would be looking at $10k for that much work if you hired an electrician.

I'm all on board with EV's as long as we are limiting that to Weed wackers and leaf blowers. I love not having to get an ICE engine running to do a 15 minute job on my yard. As far as driving anywhere past the end of my driveway in a four wheeled version of my Greenworks leaf blower? Naw ... I'm good with my V8 pickup.

DemocratsAreTotallyFucked says

But! But Tesla! <- is what our Tesla Fluffers on PatNet will say.

Heading them off at that pass: Fuck Tesla, this is an EV thread, not a Tesla-only thread.

And surprise! Surprise!

Eric Holder says

Tesla would take about the same

Oh, look, you can buy your own remote controlled personal incinerator, in case you can't make it to the long lines at state sponsored suicide pods. Only problem is, you're not the one with the remote control.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/08/dozens-rivian-evs-go-up-massive-ball-fire/

WookieMan says

Eric Holder says

Eh? Tesla would take about the same (or more, due to bigger battery) to fully charge on a 110V outlet. Not sure what's news here exactly. That woman being a stupid cunt who didn't do her homework before plunking down a chunk of cash?

Yeah, you need at least 220V on a 50amp breaker. The funny part is if you have natural gas, LED lights, efficient appliances, etc. you could power a 1,500 sq. ft. house on that. But that's what you'd need to power a car. Ain't cheap to run that at home either. Looking at $3-5k for electric install on top of overpaying for an EV. Talking a sedan too. CT or a Rivian would be even more. At least $20k in the hole.

How much gas is that? Oil change? All other maintenance is pretty similar. Maybe a starter or muffler. Still way cheaper for an ICE. Better range. Easier fill up.

Yeah, resi power 2 legs would be 240V. So total wattage on that 50 amp dual pole would be 9.6 kW, if you maintain the 20% safety factor for the circuit. Have a 90 kWh EV battery at 50%? Charging is what 85% efficient? So 45 kWh / .85 = 52 kWh, and 5.5 hours on that 9.6 kW charger. If you let it start at 9pm it’ll be done at 2:30am, hopefully ….

https://www.rideapart.com/news/728316/samsung-ss-ev-battery-coming-soon/

How does a 20-year lifespan and a nine-minute charging time sound?

Plus, Samsung’s solid-state battery comes with all the perks associated with these types of batteries including lighter weight and improved safety thanks to a more stable thermal balance. But perhaps the best part is that Samsung’s solid-state battery tech has around 500 watt-hours per kilogram. That’s nearly double the energy density of the batteries found in most EVs today. And so in the real world, we could be looking at about 600 miles of range on a single charge.

Stout says

Samsung’s solid-state battery

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2398896-what-are-solid-state-batteries-and-why-do-we-need-them/
What are solid-state batteries and why do we need them?
Batteries containing solid electrolytes have many theoretical benefits, but a technique to manufacture them cheaply has been elusive

It has electrolytes

LOL! Cybertrucks are bullet proof but blow up in the rain?

I wound up behind one the Toyota hydrogen cell cars coming into my hood in Santa Cruz. I didn't recognize the nameplate, so I looked it up. They are still in the stage of being 'wealth show off and conversation piece' cars, I presume, before improving and becoming a bit more mainstream.

Regular computerized cars can be kill boxes, too, but I guess electric cars are state of the art. I had a strange experience tonite. I was idling in the driveway waiting for my wife before we were going to Santa Cruz. The retired judge next door and his new squeeze drove by behind our car and when they were right behind me, the electronics of my car shut down for a moment until they drove by to their house, then they came back on. I have to figure out what kind of jamming is going on there.

Ceffer says

I wound up behind one the Toyota hydrogen cell cars coming into my hood in Santa Cruz. I didn't recognize the nameplate, so I looked it up. They are still in the stage of being 'wealth show off and conversation piece' cars, I presume, before improving and becoming a bit more mainstream.

No they are not: you can get a 2 yo one for $15K with a $15K fuel card on the hood. Hardly a "wealth show off", LOL.

Makes them sound quite do-able.

I know someone in South Bay who got Mirai. He is very happy with the Car for the last about 2 years. The drawback is, he can’t drive away from Bayarea and slight anxiety about running out of hydrogen.
Once, elsewhere I owned a car that runs with both LPG and regular gas. With simple flip switch, fuel source can be changed. Perhaps, those models could make sense financially in US as well.