patrick.net

Blue says

Eric Holder says

I heard the rates are outrageous on these (to the tune of $3K/year)

Actually its even more.

HOLY MOTHER OF FUCKING SHIT!

Eric Holder says

How much are you paying to insure your Teslas? I heard the rates are outrageous on these (to the tune of $3K/year).

Blue says

Actually its even more.

Status Symbol Prices, losers.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Eric Holder says

How much are you paying to insure your Teslas? I heard the rates are outrageous on these (to the tune of $3K/year).

Blue says

Actually its even more.

Status Symbol Prices, losers.

Is that a Tesla in California? A Model 3 is said to cost about $1,600/yr to insure.
https://insuraviz.com/vehicles/tesla/tesla-model-3-insurance/

HeadSet says

B.A.C.A.H. says

Eric Holder says

How much are you paying to insure your Teslas? I heard the rates are outrageous on these (to the tune of $3K/year).

Blue says

Actually its even more.

Status Symbol Prices, losers.

Is that a Tesla in California? A Model 3 is said to cost about $1,600/yr to insure.
https://insuraviz.com/vehicles/tesla/tesla-model-3-insurance/

Yes CA, try Plaid with all options on and adding a young driver costs a bit more.

The internet seems to think a Tesla model 3 uses about 0.25 kWh per mile traveled. My current off-peak electric rate is about $0.40 per kWh. (Electricity pricing is convoluted here, but that's about what I calculate.) So, that means 10¢ per mile for the electric car. With the current "elevated" gasoline prices, a gasoline powered vehicle would need to get 50 MPG on $5 gasoline to match 10¢/mile. If gasoline goes down to $3 then you'd only need to get 30 MPG, which is easy for many modern cars and even some trucklets.

Blue says

Yes CA, try Plaid with all options on and adding a young driver costs a bit more.

Yes, but insuring a Plaid is like insuring a Ferrari.

Blue says

HeadSet says

B.A.C.A.H. says

Eric Holder says

How much are you paying to insure your Teslas? I heard the rates are outrageous on these (to the tune of $3K/year).

Blue says

Actually its even more.

Status Symbol Prices, losers.

Is that a Tesla in California? A Model 3 is said to cost about $1,600/yr to insure.
https://insuraviz.com/vehicles/tesla/tesla-model-3-insurance/

Yes CA, try Plaid with all options on and adding a young driver costs a bit more.

Young driver is a very special case.

NuttBoxer says

BUT HE SAVED SO MUCH MONEY ON GAS!!! AND DON'T FORGET THAT ACCELEREYSHUN!!!

Eric Holder says

BUT HE SAVED SO MUCH MONEY ON GAS!!! AND DON'T FORGET THAT ACCELEREYSHUN!!!

Nope, not even acceleration. This is a hybrid, not a full electric.

Using a small generator like in that above pic would take several hours just to get 5 miles of range.

Beating the dead horse here, but EV's cannot compete with ICE trucks or large SUV's. Ever probably. I NEED to tow large amounts over long distances and not stop every 150 miles. We're nowhere near that point from a consumer standpoint. It would take massive batteries. I can tow 9k with my Armada. That would include most campers, trailers for work, etc.

Outside of what Musk is trying to build for the trucking industry, there's nothing close to a daily driver with a family of 5 that can tow 9k in the EV world. I don't think anyone is even trying at this point. And that's what I need. I'm okay paying up to $10/gal if I have to. I need the utility and EV's don't have it at all.

HeadSet says

Eric Holder says

BUT HE SAVED SO MUCH MONEY ON GAS!!! AND DON'T FORGET THAT ACCELEREYSHUN!!!

Nope, not even acceleration. This is a hybrid, not a full electric.

I'm in the battery market right now for my golf cart I got. Fuck me running. I'm looking at $2,500-3k for a LIPO battery that fits my needs. Want to throw new tires and a lift kit on it as well. Hoping to get 30-40 miles range on Wisconsin trails, which are as smooth as a golf course, not super off road, so a modified cart could handle it. If you've done the Wisconsin journey, it's basically ATV/snowmobile trails and/or maintained gravel roads. Oh and bars.

Also could use it around town and not drive our big cars. This is where EV's make sense to me. I just don't think EV trucks or SUV's are practical financially. My Armada to get the same specs would like need a $100k battery BEFORE the body, chassis, brakes and other parts.

Put gas and it goes!

Can't beat that folks!

That may be why the internal combustion engine has lasted so long.

casandra says

Put gas and it goes!

Can't beat that folks!

That may be why the internal combustion engine has lasted so long.

And why it's not going anywhere. Except maybe some looney places like UK. But even California won't be able to kill it.

Patrick says

Next strp in the EV evolution: make the gas generator in that space permanenly installed and integrated into the vehicle control system for smooth operation...

🤡

I have had 2 electric cars, and been pretty happy with them, especially on cost of ownership.. I think the OP article is making some pretty odd assumptions about how often people use public rapid charging vs charging at home on the off-peak rate offered by utilities. Those assumptions do not reflect my reality at all. But I will say it depends on your circumstances whether an electric car makes sense for you.

My cars are both nissan leaf (I leased the first one and returned it at the end of the lease, and bought the 2nd one), and i got them pretty cheap. Insurance costs are same as any car, if you have comprehensive insurance the cost will be related to the cost of the car.

My experience is that they my Leafs are the lowest total cost of ownership cars (on a per mile basis) of any cars I have owned, even lower than my honda civic, which is pretty low TCO. Purchase cost for me was about the same as a civic, but fuel costs are ~1/3 the cost of a civic, and maintenance costs are extremely low.

I think people who own a home and have a garage where they can charge, and who also own more than one car for the family (so the other car can be a gas car) can make good use of electric cars. Off peak rates vary.. when I first got an electric car in 2015, I paid 11 cents/kwh. But lately, PGE has increased this to 26 cents/kwh. 'breakeven' where electricity costs the same as gas is around 50 cents/kwh. So I used to pay about 1/4 the cost of gas... but now I pay about 1/2 the cost of gas. On rare occasions where I need to use a public quick charger, I pay 50 cents/kwh, which is about the same as gas. but I have only done that maybe 5 times in 7 years. The rest of the time I charge my car in my garage on a timer so it uses off-peak rates.

Maintenance cost is lower, no oil change, brakes rarely wear down due to regen braking reducing friction braking demand. the only maintenance I have ever had done on either car is tire rotations and tire replacements.

Overall I like the experience of driving electric cars... they have a smooth torque and pleasant driving characteristics, and they are quiet. Some of them have super hardcore acceleration.. but my leaf is pretty wimpy in this regard, beats my civic, but doesnt beat a corvette. Because I charge in my garage more than 99% of the time, i dont have to find a gas station and spend 5 minutes going out of my way to fill up... so overall if given a choice I always choose the electric car in my garage. I have a gas car for when I need more range than my leaf offers, and Im happy to drive it when I need to, but for commuting, errands, local stuff, the majority of my driving, I always choose my electric car.

Its not great for roadtrips, and I've never tried to do one.

Thats my experience.

The new ford and some other trucks will offer on-board inverters that can power your house in a power outage, or run tools/appliances remotely. Thats a nice perk. My car doesnt do that, but I'd like to own one that did.

As with all things, everyone's use case and circumstances vary... if you are a 1 car family, need to drive long distances, or dont have a home where you can regularly charge, an EV may not be a great choice for you. But if you are a 2 car family and can charge your EV at home and use a gas car for roadtrips, a modestly priced eV can be extremely low TCO, and they are very pleasant to drive.

DeficitHawk says

I have had 2 electric cars, and been pretty happy with them, especially on cost of ownership.. I think the OP article is making some pretty odd assumptions about how often people use public rapid charging vs charging at home on the off-peak rate offered by utilities. Those assumptions do not reflect my reality at all. But I will say it depends on your circumstances whether an electric car makes sense for you.

My cars are both nissan leaf (I leased the first one and returned it at the end of the lease, and bought the 2nd one), and i got them pretty cheap. Insurance costs are same as any car, if you have comprehensive insurance the cost will be related to the cost of the car.

My experience is that they my Leafs are the lowest total cost of ownership cars (on a per mile basis) of any cars I have owned, even lower than my honda civic, which is pretty low TCO. Purchase cost for me was about the same as a civic, but fuel costs are ~1/3 the cost of a civic, and...

Very well said @DeficitHawk. It’s ironic the folks, who are negative about EV, don’t own an EV.

We have 2 EV’s and no gas car. Wife’s car charges about twice a week at home during off-peak. I get free charge for life and also charge about twice a week. Plug it in, go for a walk or jog, or shopping. Come back and 87-95% charged most of the time.

Most siblings also own 1-2 EV. It works for us. The experience has been great in the last 5+ years.

RWSGFY says

Politicians and auto makers racing to eliminate the internal-combustion engine are bound to crash into technological, logistic and financial realities, as Mr. Toyoda warned. The casualties will be taxpayers, but the administration doesn’t seem to care.

I am surprised that no one seems to see what I see. Biden's Administration does not care because all is going fine for their goal. The plan is not to substitute electric mobility for ICE, the plan is for the public to stop driving while reserving personal transportation to politicians and the connected rich. Joe Citizen will take the bus while living in clustered cities. The "financial reality" is that an electric car in 2035 will cost the equivalent of $100,000 and be subject to high road use and mileage taxes to "pay for infrastructure." Get used to riding by bus or subway, living close to work in order to walk or cycle, and at best using a shared ride service, where something like 15 passenger van is summoned and scheduled by app to picked up and drop off people in an optimized route.

HeadSet says

I am surprised that no one seems to see what I see. Biden's Administration does not care because all is going fine for their goal. The plan is not to substitute electric mobility for ICE, the plan is for the public to stop driving while reserving personal transportation to politicians and the connected rich.

Makes sense, but I have no intention of giving up my big cars. I NEED them. Not a want. Until EV/Car manufacturers solve that problem, 90% of America will not adopt EVs. SFBA, LA, NYC, MIA, etc, fine, they work over short commuter distances.

It really can't work in a place like IL as the OP states or Wyoming. Most of IL is cornfields. Rockford, Decatur, Champaign, Peoria and Springfield are the next biggest and they're all spread out. EVs are and will always be for city dwellers that don't travel at all outside the "zone" so to speak. Let the private market figure it out. Zero tax dollars should be going to EV's (and a lot of other things...).

Tesla Owner Stranded At Supercharger Station On Christmas Eve After Cold Weather Paralyzes Battery

BY TYLER DURDEN

SUNDAY, DEC 25, 2022 - 10:45 AM

Besides freezing door handles, Tesla owners who braved the cold this Christmas weekend were met with 'winter range anxiety.' As we explained last week, cold weather will degrade battery performance. At least one video went viral on Christmas Eve of a person whose Model S wouldn't charge in the cold at a Supercharger station.

Domenick Nati, 44, a resident of Lynchburg, Virginia, rolled into a Supercharger station Saturday afternoon with 19 miles left of charge. The Tesla's dashboard showed outside temperatures were 19 degrees Fahrenheit. He made a video about his awful experience over the last 24 hours. 

In a video posted on TikTok, Nati said battery issues began on Friday when his Tesla wouldn't warm up so it could charge. He tried charging at his house and a Supercharger station, but nothing seemed to work. In a last-ditch effort, he went to Supercharger station on Christmas Eve, where he experienced the same issues. 

https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/tesla-owner-stranded-supercharger-christmas-eve-after-cold-weather-paralyzes-battery

Hard no from me. A vehicle is a lifeline. If it is unreliable, it can actually put you in more danger than simply without it.

Those charging cables have a lot of stealable copper.

WookieMan says

Makes sense, but I have no intention of giving up my big cars.

You will when gasoline has been phased out and is no longer available.

“In a video posted on TikTok, Nati said battery issues began on Friday when his Tesla wouldn't warm up so it could charge. He tried charging at his house and a Supercharger station, but nothing seemed to work. In a last-ditch effort, he went to Supercharger station on Christmas Eve, where he experienced the same issues.”

- The freaking car had “charging issue” both at home and at the supercharger. He knew about it. Why is it a problem? Am I missing something here? Any person with half a brain would use another car.

Onvacation says

Those charging cables have a lot of stealable copper.

😂….That’s a rough way to make a living. Hope the thief doesn’t get electrocuted

Onvacation says

Those charging cables have a lot of stealable copper.

Most States have outlawed non-registered recyclers (homeless, single parties (AKA thieves)) to bring in copper to recycling centers.

Well the stupid thing that California did to ban new ICE vehicles after a certain year is part of their emissions crap, so it applies to a bunch of other states. For some reason all the articles on this CA law failed to mention this. Fortunately Maryland declined to renew, for now. So Maryland won't be using CA emissions on new cars for a year or two. Our new Democrat governor (as of next January) is sure to sign up for this nonsense, but that won't take effect for a while so MD might be the only place exempted from this nonsense for a while, even if brief. Hopefully I will be living someplace else when this eventually happens.

rocketjoe79 says

Most States have outlawed non-registered recyclers (homeless, single parties (AKA thieves)) to bring in copper to recycling centers.

If states outlaw copper recycling only outlaws will recycle copper. Laws don't stop thieves.

rocketjoe79 says

Onvacation says

Those charging cables have a lot of stealable copper.

Most States have outlawed non-registered recyclers (homeless, single parties (AKA thieves)) to bring in copper to recycling centers.

They will do the same thing they do with stolen converters: pack them into containers and ship overseas.

HeadSet says

WookieMan says

Makes sense, but I have no intention of giving up my big cars.

You will when gasoline has been phased out and is no longer available.

People are willing to pay for gas, we have plenty of it and the infrastructure to find, refine and use more of it, why would it be “phased out”?

Oh that’s right, so the globalists can force us to be better slaves for them.

cisTits says

Lol. Joke? About peed my pants. I can tow 14k with a Honda civic. Is it safe? What’s my mileage?

You’ll get maybe 25-30 miles towing 14k on an EV. It’s a weight issue with electric. They’re batteries. We’d be doing it by now if we could. Ev’s are sedans and small SUV’s. The batteries to get the range and towing capacity make it impossible due to the weight of the batteries. And they’re actually light batteries. You’d need 3-4k lbs of batteries PLUS the load weight you tow. Ain’t happening without new tech.