patrick.net

socal2 says

Who here at Patnet is arguing for a "forced transition" to EV's?

Can you use your own thoughts and logic and stop spamming us arguments that no one is making? No one is forcing anyone to buy a Tesla. Tesla has massive demand because word of mouth about the quality of their product.

I have personally gotten 3 referrals convincing Conservative truck guys and motor heads to buy Teslas simply by giving them test rides in my car.

What other car company (or any product company in history) can have this level of success without advertising? Let alone having the Media, Democrat Politicians, Unions, Woke retards, short-sellers, OPEC, Russia all against it?

You keep.making that strawman argument up while avoiding the hard facts. Just like you do with everything else.

Eman hasn't denounced it, so he's in board. Fluffing for Tesla!

I looked at Teslas offered by Hertz and the prices don't look attractive at all. $28K for a 3 y.o. base Model3 with 60K miles on the clock? When the new one is $38K (-$7500)? Some deal. Does it also mean they are not all that desperate to unload?

What's more interesting is they don't seem to have any Polestars for sale, which is weird, because if I was them I would unload these first. $50K for a FWD version, no charging network, very meh as a car overall...

Eric Holder says

I looked at Teslas offered by Hertz and the prices don't look attractive at all. $28K for a 3 y.o. base Model3 with 60K miles on the clock? When the new one is $38K (-$7500)? Some deal. Does it also mean they are not all that desperate to unload?

What's more interesting is they don't seem to have any Polestars for sale, which is weird, because if I was them I would unload these first. $50K for a FWD version, no charging network, very meh as a car overall...

If they want to unload them, they'll reduce the prices.

Actually, they are probably going to be mass auctioning them off to used car dealers or brokers in between.

Nothing proves a car's true market worth more than it's market resale price.

And EVs right now are dog shit. (waiting for socal2 to make a bullshit transfiguration of 'market' into 'utility' value)

Even with new cars, car dealers are selling their dealership contract back to GM because they don't want to carry them anymore. That's BAD.

They are still a niche product. Vanity vehicles for a very Libtard subset of the population concentrated into very narrow geographic locations. Now this is an important phase for new products prior to real mass adoption, that's true. But that is all it is despite Team socal2 & Eman Fluffing for Tesla while pretending to be meaningfully debating the future viability of EVs.

In fact, their comments reinforce my 'niche' and 'vanity' characterizations.

UkraineIsFucked says

If they want to unload them, they'll reduce the prices.

Nothing proves a car's true market worth more than it's market resale price.

Well, duh.

Eric Holder says

Well, duh.

socal2, Eman and probably others following along actually have to be told that, believe it or not.

Not that they will listen. This is emotional for them.

UkraineIsFucked says

They are still a niche product. Vanity vehicles for a very Libtard subset of the population concentrated into very narrow geographic locations.

Yet the Tesla Model Y was the best selling car (of all types) in the world beating out the Toyota Corolla. Months of backlog without a lick of advertising.
https://www.greencars.com/news/the-tesla-model-y-is-the-best-selling-car-in-the-world

Just wait until the Cybertruck production ramps up.

What other car in the history of the world has this type of reaction on the street?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCyy5yqkrWE
https://twitter.com/X_E_U_S/status/1746521721023189046
https://twitter.com/teslaownersSV/status/1746393808680722690

socal2 says

Yet the Tesla Model Y was the best selling car (of all types) in the world beating out the Toyota Corolla.

Tesla Fluffing Example...what number is this one? 6?

This still holds true:

UkraineIsFucked says

They are still a niche product. Vanity vehicles for a very Libtard subset of the population concentrated into very narrow geographic locations

UkraineIsFucked says

They are still a niche product. Vanity vehicles for a very Libtard subset of the population concentrated into very narrow geographic locations

Explain again how the best selling car in the world is niche?

socal2 says

Explain again how the best selling car in the world is niche?

Already did. And the fact that only 6 percent in the US want an EV for their next vehicle explains it even more.

Oh... and far more cars other than Tesla are sold - both here and especially abroad. So one can't claim Tesla's are the world's best selling cars.

AND as far as EVs go, China's BYD outsells Tesla: https://mishtalk.com/economics/only-6-percent-in-the-us-want-an-ev-for-their-next-vehicle/

You see, the 'world' comprises a helluva lot more than just Southern California.

Oh...one more added caveat: when you have woketarded CEOs at Herrz and the other fleet buyers ruining their company's net worth by purchasing Teslas in the tens of thousands, that's going to goose the sales figures.

"That won't do nothing but make Cadillac number-one dealership in the country." - Barbershop (2002)

Why do you post your bullshit when it can be so easily proven to be bullshit?

Since EVs are broadly more expensive to purchase upfront than comparable gas vehicles, the best way to assess whether an EV will ultimately be cheaper to own over the long term is by looking at its break-even time: when its lower recurring costs make up for its higher upfront cost. Woody and his team found that 200-mile range compact and midsize electric sedans reach this point in 3 to 7 years, while 300-mile range variants take nine to 20 years to break even. Electric SUVs and trucks with 300 miles of range generally take more than 20 years, while 400-mile range EVs will never break even over their lifetimes.

https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2024/01/16/are_evs_actually_cheaper_to_own_maybe_not_1005129.html

More on socal2's 'best selling car':

Desperate Tesla owners in and around Chicago were seen trying to charge their vehicles with no luck amid frigid temperatures that have gripped the Midwest.

“Nothing. No juice. Still on zero percent,” Tyler Beard, who had been trying to recharge his Tesla at an Oak Brook, Illinois Tesla supercharging station since Sunday afternoon, told the news outlet. “And this is like three hours being out here after being out here three hours yesterday.”

“This is crazy. It’s a disaster. Seriously,” said Tesla owner Chalis Mizelle. Mizelle said she abandoned her car and got a ride from a friend after hers would not charge. “We got a bunch of dead robots out here,” one man said.

[Someone pushes a Tesla at a Chicago-area vehicle charging station where many of the electric vehicles have been forced to sit amid freezing temperatures. Many of the vehicles failed to charge at stations around Chicago amid the cold weather.] Best Selling Car In America!

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/chicago-area-tesla-charging-stations-lined-with-dead-cars-in-freezing-cold-a-bunch-of-dead-robots-out-here


original link

UkraineIsFucked says

Already did.

Where - how?

Also, it is staggering how much more successful this American company is compared to everyone else including Volkswagen. Most of these OEM's will be out of business before the end of this decade. They are nothing more than a bankrupt Municipal Pension fund who make crappy cars on the side.

More math for the short bus folks. Less than 2 years ago, all the "smart people" were predicting VW would be eclipsing Tesla's EV sales and profits by now.



https://twitter.com/alojoh/status/1747303213173235838

socal2 says

Where - how?

Ok. You are now just trolling. And you aren't even doing a good job as that.

Hey @Eman ! Proud of your boy here?

Finished the workout earlier too. Focus on things that better your life. The stuff on Patnet is for fun. Don’t get to hang up on it if we disagree.

UkraineIsFucked says

Eman says

seems like you have never owned a Tesla, or even an EV for that matter. The issue with Hertz taking a loss is not what you understand it to be. It’s alright. Time to move on.

Tesla Fluffer Example #3. Like all the others, it is all about justifying your Tesla ownership. You can't argue on the facts/data. This one is ad hominem, too.

Wow. You make this too etop.

What amazes me Eman is how you tie your rep to socal2's. Talk about cutting off your own (Tesla tattooed, I am sure) street cred balls. << now THAT is how you deliver an ad hominem.

There’s nothing to justify. Hertz bought the EVs at the top of the market when inflation was running rampant, and there were NO tax incentives.

Let’s run some numbers:

Hertz paid $50k/car without tax incentives.
The same car is selling for $39k with $7.5-$15k tax incentives brand new. Run the math and see how much beating Hertz is taking…for the right reason. Who in their right mind would pay $25k for a used Tesla model 3 with 70-90k miles on it?

Eric Holder says

I looked at Teslas offered by Hertz and the prices don't look attractive at all. $28K for a 3 y.o. base Model3 with 60K miles on the clock? When the new one is $38K (-$7500)? Some deal. Does it also mean they are not all that desperate to unload?

What's more interesting is they don't seem to have any Polestars for sale, which is weird, because if I was them I would unload these first. $50K for a FWD version, no charging network, very meh as a car overall...

Our siblings bought a few months ago and got $9.5-$15k tax rebates and tax credit. $2k to $7.5k from State and $7.5k from Federal. PG&E also offers $500 to install a level 2 charger at home. There are a lot more rebates for low income folks and folks with a beater car, etc… the incentives could be over $20k if one qualified for all these.

This is why Hertz is taking a bath with their used fleet EV. It’s the freaking market and all the incentives that are being offer. It’s not their fault or the car’s fault.

UkraineIsFucked says

Eric Holder says

Well, duh.

socal2, Eman and probably others following along actually have to be told that, believe it or not.

Not that they will listen. This is emotional for them.

Projecting much? I buy a new car every couple years. They’re tax deductible. The business is paying for them unlike W2 folks. There’s nothing to be emotional about.

Eman says

Who in their right mind would pay $25k for a used Tesla model 3 with 70-90k miles on it?

Exactly.

PoS.

Eman says

years. They’re tax deductible. The business is paying for them unlike W2 folks. There’s nothing to be emotional about.

Sure there is, no matter how snobbist you wrap it all up.

UkraineIsFucked says

Eman says

years. They’re tax deductible. The business is paying for them unlike W2 folks. There’s nothing to be emotional about.

Sure there is, no matter how snobbist you wrap it all up.

Jealousy much? Every man chooses his own path. I love the path I’ve been on in the last 1.5 decades. I knew I wanted my own company before I graduated college. The opportunity door opened in 2009, and I jumped in head first. Thanks to the higher power. 🙏

UkraineIsFucked says

socal2 says

Yet the Tesla Model Y was the best selling car (of all types) in the world beating out the Toyota Corolla.

Tesla Fluffing Example...what number is this one? 6?

This still holds true:

UkraineIsFucked says

They are still a niche product. Vanity vehicles for a very Libtard subset of the population concentrated into very narrow geographic locations

At what point wouldn’t it be a niche product? 10%, 30%, 50% adoption?

“AND as far as EVs go, China's BYD outsells Tesla: https://mishtalk.com/economics/only-6-percent-in-the-us-want-an-ev-for-their-next-vehicle/”

I see you’re parroting without having an in-depth reading and understanding. It’s fact that BYD outsold Tesla on cars so did Toyota and Honda, etc…. However, BYD didn’t outsell Tesla on EV.

UkraineIsFucked says

Since EVs are broadly more expensive to purchase upfront than comparable gas vehicles, the best way to assess whether an EV will ultimately be cheaper to own over the long term is by looking at its break-even time: when its lower recurring costs make up for its higher upfront cost. Woody and his team found that 200-mile range compact and midsize electric sedans reach this point in 3 to 7 years, while 300-mile range variants take nine to 20 years to break even. Electric SUVs and trucks with 300 miles of range generally take more than 20 years, while 400-mile range EVs will never break even over their lifetimes.

https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2024/01/16/are_evs_actually_cheaper_to_own_maybe_not_1005129.html

Real clear science. 😂😂😂

I hope it’s more clear than “the vaccines are safe and effective.”

socal2 says

UkraineIsFucked says

Already did.

Where - how?

Also, it is staggering how much more successful this American company is compared to everyone else including Volkswagen. Most of these OEM's will be out of business before the end of this decade. They are nothing more than a bankrupt Municipal Pension fund who make crappy cars on the side.

More math for the short bus folks. Less than 2 years ago, all the "smart people" were predicting VW would be eclipsing Tesla's EV sales and profits by now.



https://twitter.com/alojoh/status/1747303213173235838

Don’t let facts get in the way of emotional journalism. 🤪

UkraineIsFucked says

socal2 says

Where - how?

Ok. You are now just trolling. And you aren't even doing a good job as that.

Hey Eman ! Proud of your boy here?

He’s not my boy, but he’s doing great if I can be honest with you.

Porch is niche and is doing fine. VW is mainstream and doing meh. Maybe itʼs not such a bad thing to be a niche manufacturer after all...

RWSGFY says

Porch is niche and is doing fine. VW is mainstream and doing meh. Maybe itʼs not such a bad thing to be a niche manufacturer after all...

I don't think most people truly understand how much more profitable Tesla is compared to the other OEM's.

Elon and Tesla have revolutionized manufacturing bringing costs down.........and after building 2 massive new factories, they basically have zero debt unlike all the other OEM's that are drowning in debt and stuck with old outdated factories and massive pension libailities.



Also, keep in mind that Tesla is beating virtually all of the other OEM's even though Tesla is making a more expensive and difficult to build EV's. When you compare Tesla's margins to other OEM's just EV's, Tesla's lead is even larger!

Tesla is truly one of the best American success stories in my lifetime and their CEO is not a woke retard. But alot of MAGA and Conservatives still have their hate on.

I love America. I would love to support everything that is made here, but American cars suck compared to Japanese cars. It’s an honor to drive an American made car while having so much fun driving it. No Japanese cars for us as long as Tesla is still around. Definitely no German cars. The maintenance sucks…

RWSGFY says

Porch is niche and is doing fine. VW is mainstream and doing meh. Maybe itʼs not such a bad thing to be a niche manufacturer after all...

This is the thing. Do what works for yourself and your family. The pond is big enough for so many players. Everyone’s situation is different

https://energytheory.com/volvo-ce-and-rolls-royce-bring-wood-burning-off-grid-ev-chargers/

Interesting take from someone who owns a diesel trucking company and has been driving a Tesla for a decade.

https://x.com/allevehicles/status/1748478129746620545?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

Booger says

https://energytheory.com/volvo-ce-and-rolls-royce-bring-wood-burning-off-grid-ev-chargers/

I would not be surprised if those "wood burning" generators end up with an option to burn petroleum products.

Eman says

Interesting take from someone who owns a diesel trucking company and has been driving a Tesla for a decade.

https://x.com/allevehicles/status/1748478129746620545?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

It works for him because he owns private chargers that he needs not wait in line for. The big issue with low temperatures is the very slow charge rate along with the decreased range per charge. This means long lines for those who depend on public charging stations in cold weather.

HeadSet says

Eman says

Interesting take from someone who owns a diesel trucking company and has been driving a Tesla for a decade.

https://x.com/allevehicles/status/1748478129746620545?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

It works for him because he owns private chargers that he needs not wait in line for. The big issue with low temperatures is the very slow charge rate along with the decreased range per charge. This means long lines for those who depend on public charging stations in cold weather.

I’m a problem solver so I always look for solutions. I believe people, who have no access to a level 2 charger at home or work in cold climate, should think twice about driving/owning an EV. It’s not for everyone.

Thankfully, we live in the Bay Area and never have to deal with freezing or negative temperature. A friend drives a model Y and uses 110V charger at his 1-bedroom condo, and it works for him.

We have two level 2 chargers in our garage so it’s not a problem for us. Guests are encouraged to plug-in their car whenever they’re here as we have surplus with our solar. The 60amp charger, which is mounted near the garage door, is for both indoor and outdoor use. It gives 44 mph. Pretty sweet.

Eman says

The 60amp charger, which is mounted near the garage door, is for both indoor and outdoor use. It gives 44 mph.

The Bolt EUV I had would only get about 24 miles per hour of charge using a Level 2 charger. Even so, that is enough to charge the car overnight.

24 mph likely has a 40-amp circuit breaker?

In general, I do things with an intention in mind. I call it one time effort for long-term benefits. 😅

We have a 50-amp charger deep inside the garage as I back my car in. We get 30 mph. That’s plenty for overnight charging. The 60-amp is mainly for guests.

The laundry room is next to the garage. The dryer is 30-amp. We should get 18 mph with a 14-50 charging adapter if ever needed.

The Tesla community on X is strong. Here is a post from some white guy on his Tesla experience. It’s also true for us. We don’t see ourselves ever going back to driving ICE cars.

https://x.com/alex_avoigt/status/1748698497006600642?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

Stations are more practical solution. On wall socket my plaid takes about 100h to fully charge at around 12A load! btw, I don't have strong opinion on EVs.

They're not bad cars,Tesla. It's just not the future in our lifetimes. We're not bashing the cars or the owners of them. You guys don't understand capacity of our electric grid and ability to mine the stuff needed to build the batteries. And maintain roads as MFT goes offline with every EV sale. The prices are only going to skyrocket for everything related to them in the next couple years. It will be a burden to own them. They're not green. There's a reason Hertz is selling. I'll semi trust a major corporation that buys cars daily and sells them instead of EV fan boys. Not a knock, just being straight. They have stockholders they have to answer to. You guys just like them and enjoy paying a premium for a vehicle that's going to cost you more very shortly, besides the sticker price.

On paper the idea is good. A fun fast car to drive that you can sell as supposedly "green" but it's not. Your registration, fees and utility costs are going to skyrocket. And yes, it is a golf cart. Understand the tech you're driving. It's been around for decades if you golf. Most other manufacturers have the self driving crap too, so that's not unique to Tesla. I've driven Tesla. I've driven a Jaguar that I didn't touch the wheel dozens of miles that I can fuel up in 3-5 minutes and get 300-400 miles versus 30+ minutes to get less mileage.

I don't care if people buy the "trend" at the moment. It's just not the future. We have way too much oil resources. Network already in place. Tesla is close to maxing out its market. Cyber Truck will be a flop as people that need to tow stuff generally do a lot of miles and can't sit there and charge for 20 minutes to get another 80-100 miles. Time is money and EV's are a money suck.

I also don't understand why anyone would even own a sedan or half assed mid sized SUV. What are you going to do with it? And as mentioned temperature is a thing. A good 1/3rd of the country is in cold weather. I just parked my car for a week at the airport with -7ºf temps (for a high) and it started right up. Tesla ain't doing that and getting back to my house 65 miles away. They're reaching max market saturation. Domestically the buyers are going to be nearing nothing and when the government comes after you for registration or MFT, your expensive golf cart compared to similar sized models just got a whole hell of a lot more expensive.

Sorry for the novel but I know this industry. EV owners are going to get smashed and regret owning them. Just own that it's a car that you like to drive. Don't say it's cheaper. Don't say it's green. By a factor of 2-3 they are worse than ICE vehicles that are similar size and $20-50k cheaper.