patrick.net

Eman says

Real clear science

If you can't handle facts because it flies in the face of your personal ideology, that only confirm what I've been saying about EV owners. Unlike Wookie, I call you out on your bullshit.

WookieMan says

You guys don't understand capacity of our electric grid and ability to mine the stuff needed to build the batteries

Forget it Wookie. They don't WANT TO UNDERSTAND because to them they are in a cult. The cognitive dissonance is too great for them to overcome.

WookieMan says

We're not bashing the cars or the owners of them.

I am. I tried facts and reason. And calling a spade a spade is the only way to go right now.

UkraineIsFucked says

Eman says

Real clear science

If you can't handle facts because it flies in the face of your personal ideology, that only confirm what I've been saying about EV owners. Unlike Wookie, I call you out on your bullshit.

What BS did I make and you called out? 🤪

“Just own that it's a car that you like to drive. Don't say it's cheaper. Don't say it's green. By a factor of 2-3 they are worse than ICE vehicles that are similar size and $20-50k cheaper.”

Where did I say it was cheaper and it’s green? You guys keep coming up with straw man arguments. 😂

I drive Tesla because I like it, not because it’s green. I install solar because it makes financial sense, not because it’s green.

Did you catch that...higher property insurance for those who don't even own an EV because of the danger they cause to the nieghborhood + extra costs the fire departments have to bare even.

I've been saying it. As the popularity of them grows, prices associated with them are going to go up. I keep my golf cart parked outside, 20' from the house at closest. If it burns all I can do is let the battery burn the son of a bitch. Oh well. Better than my house and I technically wouldn't even need to call the fire department. I know the risk with an electric cart.

A battery pack on a EV is significantly worse and usually you park it in your garage. While extremely rare I'd never park one of those in my garage. Ever. I wouldn't have the "it won't happen to me" attitude if I owned one. I would never put one of those things in a garage. Any model. Did I say that I wouldn't ever put one in my garage???

The best man in my wedding is related/works in fire services and owns the business. Don't want to dox myself too much. You never park EV's in a garage. You're not putting out a lithium battery fire. You have to try and save the house. The vehicle is destroyed 100% of the time. Park it on the street is all I'll say.

Eman says

Where did I say it was cheaper and it’s green? You guys keep coming up with straw man arguments. 😂

I drive Tesla because I like it, not because it’s green. I install solar because it makes financial sense, not because it’s green.

I really hope this was sarcasm. You bought a Tesla AND installed solar that won't pay back for a decade and it made financial sense?? I get you said you like the car. I've driven them. A hybrid is cheaper by a long shot by MSRP and MPG. So i'd tread lightly saying it makes financial sense. It literally doesn't. At all. Just like a Ferrari doesn't make financial sense.

You bought a car for status. Just admit it. It's okay. They're fun to drive. You didn't need it. They have no functional use besides getting 4 people, with 2 in the back with no leg room from A to B. Between solar panels and the car you literally pissed away $50k at minimum that could have been reinvested in real estate. THIS is what we're saying. You wasted money dude. It's fact.

You keep comparing apples to oranges. At the time of purchase, I was eyeing either a MBZ S550, or Lexus LS460. Those cars ride smooth and they have air suspensions. My biz partner bought a Tesla in March 2017 and was heckling me to buy one. Then came August with 0.99% financing and $11.5k tax credit, rebates and discount, I went for it. My net cost was $77k after all the discounts, which was cheaper than ICE cars while the instant torque made the ride much more fun. Also, I get free supercharging for life. That’s $300/month of savings on gas.

You have no idea what “status” means living in the Bay Area. MBZ, BMW, Lexus and Tesla, are everywhere. If you want status, try at least a Ferrari, or Lamborghini Aventador, or a Rolls Royce. You ain’t 💩 if you drive an old Ferrari or Lambo.

This 27-year old Google engineer couple paid over $2M for this “average” house in an average neighborhood in the Bay Area. A $2M house in your neck of the woods maybe a status, but that’s not how it works here.



https://sfstandard.com/2024/01/19/google-engineer-murder-liren-chen-xuanyi-yu/

Solar was 100% financed. It’s generating equivalent to $620/month of electricity before all the annual rate increases. It should pay for itself after 6 years. Then free electricity thereafter for the life of the solar, which has 25 years warranty and 92% efficiency at the end of its life span.

When it comes to numbers, I dare anyone dance with me.

Eman says

https://sfstandard.com/2024/01/19/google-engineer-murder-liren-chen-xuanyi-yu/

I thought I recognized that house. Here it is:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/uvftTvyAPFTApDMr6

Google protects criminals. I know it's that house because of the ones on the left and right. I bet the guy vastly over-extended himself and just lost it and went nuts. It is stressful to live here, very expensive. That's why most people sold out and are now working for the intelligence agencies either knowingly or unknowingly.

Eman says

Solar was 100% financed. It’s generating equivalent to $620/month of electricity before all the annual rate increases. It should pay for itself after 6 years. Then free electricity thereafter for the life of the solar, which has 25 years warranty and 92% efficiency at the end of its life span.

When it comes to numbers, I dare anyone dance with me.

You're a welfare whore. If it actually made sense to install solar, instead of having government subsidies, people would buy it without a second thought because it was actually cheaper.

This is simple economics, and drives me crazy that government welfare sluts like you, justify it because you're advantaged by having EVERYBODY ELSE pay for it, when it's a net drain.

richwicks says

I thought I recognized that house. Here it is:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/uvftTvyAPFTApDMr6

I was able to see this shack about an hour ago but its masked out now! I know someone who lives in a similar house within 10 min walk west side of it, bought for about 600k way back, now its $2m. This area is ok and kind of ghetto around. The schools are Ok not great unless send to private (15-25k/kid/y).
Only very few can buy now who MADE money through either business or vested lot of stock options. It makes no financial sense to buy and paying taxes at 2m for many.
Yesterday on Radio heard a program "Repeal the death tax" by "Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association" on Prop 19 that was passed last year to put a small dent on commie 1978 Prop 13 no tax for rich paid by poor and middle class! CA is totally f*up with Prop 13 by rich leaches who will never let it get repealed to enslave all middle and poor forever. This is one of the driver to keep houses for generations to keep ever going down tax rates for generations as the tax tied to purchase price!!

Eman says

Where did I say it was cheaper and it’s green? You guys keep coming up with straw man arguments. 😂

Your pal socal2 did. And you signed up to his trashed credibility, remember?

Eman says

Where did I say it was cheaper and it’s green? You guys keep coming up with straw man arguments. 😂

Your pal socal2 did. And you signed up to his trashed credibility, remember?

Eman says

What BS did I make and you called out?

Unbelievable.

UkraineIsFucked says

Eman says

Where did I say it was cheaper and it’s green? You guys keep coming up with straw man arguments. 😂

Your pal socal2 did. And you signed up to his trashed credibility, remember?

Alright, if this is all you got, I’ll never respond to you ever again. It was nice chatting.

richwicks says

Eman says

Solar was 100% financed. It’s generating equivalent to $620/month of electricity before all the annual rate increases. It should pay for itself after 6 years. Then free electricity thereafter for the life of the solar, which has 25 years warranty and 92% efficiency at the end of its life span.

When it comes to numbers, I dare anyone dance with me.

You're a welfare whore. If it actually made sense to install solar, instead of having government subsidies, people would buy it without a second thought because it was actually cheaper.

This is simple economics, and drives me crazy that government welfare sluts like you, justify it because you're advantaged by having EVERYBODY ELSE pay for it, when it's a net drain.

Everybody = myself included. I accept what the government offers to everyone. I didn’t take anything from anyone illegitimately.

You’re a whiner. I won’t waste my time with you. See you around Patnet, but don’t expect me to respond to any of your posts in the future.

Eman says

Everybody = myself included. I accept what the government offers to everyone. I didn’t take anything from anyone illegitimately.

You’re a whiner. I won’t waste my time with you. See you around Patnet, but don’t expect me to respond to any of your posts in the future.

Rich is aggressive, so don't get worked up about it. I do like his takes on a lot of things though somewhat repetitive at time. I don't think you're getting what I'm saying at least. The government WILL get their money from you. Especially being in CA with the highest gas tax in the nation. That money is used to pay for your already shitty roads and you're not paying it. And yes I was just out there and I know the industry. CA has awful roads considering they don't freeze and thaw at the lower elevations.

Your $300 savings is going to be a massive swing in registration fees or MFT at the charging station at some point in the near future. CA can legislate fees at charging stations overnight to get tax revenue. Enjoy it now, no one has said you did anything illegitimate. All I'm saying is you overpaid for a car and the saving WILL go away. And in 6 years you're going to need another probably $100k car. You do what you want with your $$$ but it simply isn't logical for a car in any way.

You can't tout real estate prowess and then talk about a $70k car being a good value and you're saving money. You're not. You can buy an electric hybrid and pay $0 in gas. And you can get bigger cars that have more utility for $40k with longer range. We don't have the grid for this shit and you know it out in CA. Just admit the only reason you have it is status and it's a fun car to drive. That's 100% and not a judgement. I've been to CA plenty and have seen the useless luxury cars. It's stupid bad out there.

Put the $30-50k difference into investments, not cars. I hope you paid cash too. Financing $70k on a car is doubling down on a bad decision. This isn't a horse and carriage to a model T. You can get other cars that get from A to B. Driving an expensive car is just a target on your back that people know they extract your money. Again have fun with it, but there are nice cars for half the cost and still can be $0 in gas a month. Hybrids will get taxed too. I frankly don't get how this is even a conversation. You cannot pay for roads taking ICE vehicles off the roads, especially out there. It's coming dude. The roads and grid need the $$$$ and a lot of it.

In theory can we take a used EV and sell it to each other (as in pass it to the next person) so we can all get the tax credit?

Booger says

In theory can we take a used RV and sell it to each other (as in pass it to the next person) so we can all get the tax credit?

Not sure. I think most tax credits have to be new purchases. I don't think the 2nd to whatever number person gets it. I don't know why we're giving these credits out anyway. As I've said Musk has made great things but he's the biggest tax grifter to have existed in US history and that's including the MIC industries.

https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/used-clean-vehicle-credit

Used Clean Vehicle Credit

Beginning January 1, 2023, if you buy a qualified used electric vehicle (EV) or fuel cell vehicle (FCV) from a licensed dealer for $25,000 or less, you may be eligible for a used clean vehicle tax credit (also referred to as a previously owned clean vehicle credit). The credit equals 30% of the sale price up to a maximum credit of $4,000.

OK, so you have to buy it from a dealership, and there are income limits.

Add electric bikes to the mix. I was interested in buying an electric bike because of the hills where I live are getting harder to climb (I'm sure age has nothing to do with it). With an E-Bike, you can still peddle but obviously you have the aid of the motor, making just about any hill manageable. However, after doing a lot of research, I decided against buying an E-Bike. I found that fires are occurring with E-Bikes as well. I have an attached garage, and if it caught fire in there, it would probably spread to the house as well.

Booger says

https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/used-clean-vehicle-credit

Used Clean Vehicle Credit

Beginning January 1, 2023, if you buy a qualified used electric vehicle (EV) or fuel cell vehicle (FCV) from a licensed dealer for $25,000 or less, you may be eligible for a used clean vehicle tax credit (also referred to as a previously owned clean vehicle credit). The credit equals 30% of the sale price up to a maximum credit of $4,000.

OK, so you have to buy it from a dealership, and there are income limits.

You need a dealer license for your scheme of passing the same EV around to work. Buy it as a dealer, sell it to your friend, split $4K, buy it back, sell it to another friend, split $4K, rinse, repeat...

It stupid states like CA sales tax will cut into your profits though.

Eman says

Alright, if this is all you got, I’ll never respond to you ever again. It was nice chatting.

All I got?

YOU signed up to the socal2 bullshit gravy train. I specifically asked if that is what you were willingly doing. And you did.

So it isn't about 'what I got'. I don't have to do much of anything. You just did it all.

WookieMan says

I don't think you're getting what I'm saying at least.

I think he does but can't acknowledge it since he can't argue against inconvenient facts. He's really pinned now that he's latched his credibility to socal2's, too.

"Akshually", there was a number of recalls for ICE cars spontaneously combusting while parked. Ford, BMW and KIA come to mind. Much easier to put out though.

PS. Most recent covfefe: https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-recalls-defects/park-recalled-hyundai-kia-vehicles-outside-fire-risk-a1164933239/

UkraineIsFucked says

WookieMan says

I don't think you're getting what I'm saying at least.

I think he does but can't acknowledge it since he can't argue against inconvenient facts. He's really pinned now that he's latched his credibility to socal2's, too.

I'm just looking for honesty really. It's cheaper to have a similar model hybrid car that can get $0/mo in gas that gets more range and utility and half the cost. Just say it's a fun car to drive and call it a day if you're an EV owner. It's mathematically not cheaper than most ICE cars.

I'm not joking when I talk about the golf cart thing. I dropped $1,300 on a cheap lithium battery to get 25-30 miles at 16mph. Scale that out by distance, speed, weight, etc. The CA guys live in the most expensive state and their state government is coming after the EV owners shortly. It's gonna happen. I'm commenting more as a warning and it seems like the obvious is being ignored. Whatever.

RWSGFY says

"Akshually", there was a number of recalls for ICE cars spontaneously combusting while parked. Ford, BMW and KIA come to mind. Much easier to put out though.

PS. Most recent covfefe: https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-recalls-defects/park-recalled-hyundai-kia-vehicles-outside-fire-risk-a1164933239/

While this is true, it is not because of a known limitation. Instead, it is because of bad engineering. Tesla battery fires aren't because of bad engineering.

GNL says

While this is true, it is not because of a known limitation. Instead, it is because of bad engineering. Tesla battery fires aren't because of bad engineering.

A minor accident with any EV can potentially compromise the battery. EVs in just minor collisions are frequently totaled.

richwicks says

GNL says

While this is true, it is not because of a known limitation. Instead, it is because of bad engineering. Tesla battery fires aren't because of bad engineering.

A minor accident with any EV can potentially compromise the battery. EVs in just minor collisions are frequently totaled.

Are you saying it is bad engineering? I posit that no matter how you engineer a Tesla, the battery will always be susceptible to fires.

It's like millions of tiny versions of the Hindenburg driving around and being parked in garages. The point here is that Li-ion is an inherently dangerous battery technology due to its very high (for a battery) energy density, which, in massive quantities is very unstable. It's analogous to nuclear materials. A little bit of uranium or plutonium is, aside from radioactivity and heavy metal toxicity, not a catastrophic risk. Put together a substantial multiple of critical masses of the stuff, and it's guaranteed to chain react.

That much potential energy will, if triggered, create a massive exothermic reaction.

Anyone ever ignite magnesium foil? That only burns at 2000 degrees, and you can trigger it with a cigarette lighter.

GNL says

Are you saying it is bad engineering? I posit that no matter how you engineer a Tesla, the battery will always be susceptible to fires.

I wouldn't say it's bad engineering, I'm saying that it's an overall bad concept. It's not the design that is flawed, they have probably made it as safe as it's possible to make. It's a bad product, and I don't think any amount of engineering will make it safe.

But you can argue that a gasoline car is dangerous as well, that's just a bunch of flammable liquid that can easily become explosive. I just think batteries are worse.

Where's @Eman and @socal2? Aren't they supposed to be hijacking threads like this and turning them into Tesla Fluffer Porn?

GNL says

RWSGFY says

"Akshually", there was a number of recalls for ICE cars spontaneously combusting while parked. Ford, BMW and KIA come to mind. Much easier to put out though.

PS. Most recent covfefe: https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-recalls-defects/park-recalled-hyundai-kia-vehicles-outside-fire-risk-a1164933239/

While this is true, it is not because of a known limitation. Instead, it is because of bad engineering. Tesla battery fires aren't because of bad engineering.

Why? Samsung phone battery fires were definitely because of bad engineering. Same for Li batteries igniting on planes - remember these? Both apparently not an issue anymore. Same for Tesla: if they are self-combusting it means some re-engineering is in order.

It isn't just EVs ...

Green Globalist Disaster: E-Bikes Caused Record Fires, Injuries, and Deaths Last Year In NYC

(Zero Hedge)—Electric bicycles were responsible for a record number of fires, injuries and deaths in New York City last year.

In total, e-bikes caused 267 fires, causing 18 deaths and 150 injuries in the city, the New York Fire Department (FDNY) told Fox News, which notes that the figures represent the highest levels of each statistic – with deaths jumping 200% and fires increasing 21% over last year.

A couple of very interesting videos:
https://conservativeplaybook.com/green-globalist-disaster-e-bikes-caused-record-fires-injuries-and-deaths-last-year-in-nyc/

Eman says

Everybody = myself included. I accept what the government offers to everyone. I didn’t take anything from anyone illegitimately.

The government is illegitimate. Don't you realize that? We don't have border controls, our current jerk off of a president wasn't elected, we have political prisoners, we don't have free speech, our government directly censors individuals, and our military is completely occupied in going to wars that have nothing to do with this country as our president and many members of congress openly engage in accepting bribes and doing insider stock trading.

That's our government.

If solar panels actually produced cheaper electricity, and they don't in many cases, just be installing solar your electric bill would go down. It doesn't. This is another boondoogle program that harms EVERYBODY. The energy consumption in producing your solar panels very likely exceeds the amount of energy you'll ever recover from using them. That make any sense to you?

They're basically intermittent batteries that never get more energy out of them than is put into making them. Who would do this?

In time we might get viable solutions, but there's no sense installing nonviable ones.

Eman says

You’re a whiner. I won’t waste my time with you.

I'm an engineer, I use my brain. You don't. MOST people don't. Most engineers don't. I'm fucking tired of it. "Duuuur, it advantages me because I offload the cost using a corrupt stupid government to do it!" You don't even recognize that you MIGHT be scum.

All these green-energy initiatives just consume MORE energy. People do the analysis and explain it, it's not part of the latest government scam so it's never in your stupid "news".

Do you think they are JUST finding out that solar electric doesn't make sense? Solar ALMOST does - if you take good care of it and maintain it, you can actually walk out ahead, but you have also be lucky, no breakage, have to remove dust, etc. Solar is the closest thing we've got, wind is a complete wash, total waste of money. It's engineered stupidity. There's just SO MANY SCAMS, and we have real problems to work on.

RayAmerica says

It isn't just EVs ...

Green Globalist Disaster: E-Bikes Caused Record Fires, Injuries, and Deaths Last Year In NYC

(Zero Hedge)—Electric bicycles were responsible for a record number of fires, injuries and deaths in New York City last year.

In total, e-bikes caused 267 fires, causing 18 deaths and 150 injuries in the city, the New York Fire Department (FDNY) told Fox News, which notes that the figures represent the highest levels of each statistic – with deaths jumping 200% and fires increasing 21% over last year.

A couple of very interesting videos:
https://conservativeplaybook.com/green-globalist-disaster-e-bikes-caused-record-fires-injuries-and-deaths-last-year-in-nyc/

Right. Most of these are made in Chyna literally in sheds to a lowesr price point possible. Engineering? What engineering? And good luck finding the manufacturer and holding it accountable.

With cars the game is completely different and in the US NTHSA will be breathing down your neck the very next day your jalopies start self-combusting. It's "make your shit not self-immolate or die" kinda situation.

🤷‍♂️

https://x.com/tescalendar1/status/1749050553160577071?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

RWSGFY says

Why? Samsung phone battery fires were definitely because of bad engineering. Same for Li batteries igniting on planes - remember these? Both apparently not an issue anymore. Same for Tesla: if they are self-combusting it means some re-engineering is in order.

Maybe because there is a limitation?

RWSGFY says

With cars the game is completely different and in the US NTHSA will be breathing down your neck the very next day your jalopies start self-combusting.

I'd agree, but that 1 in 100,000 chance is not worth it. You can't put those fires out. You're generally trying to save your home at that point and the car is for sure totaled. Hopefully your life and family isn't.

Spec/stock ICE cars will not start on fire sitting in the garage. EV's cannot make this claim. I have no interest in potentially killing my family over an overpriced car that's fun to drive. Oh and while I was in FL and the Bahamas last week the Teslas simply didn't work. Couldn't charge in Chicago. 50% of the country gets freezing temps in the winter consistently. The worst possible time to not have a functioning car. Count me out.