patrick.net

UkraineIsFucked says

https://realclearwire.com/articles/2024/01/28/so_many_problems_continue_to_plague_the_ev_industry_1007949.html

Of course 430mpg is baloney, because when renting Teslas my calculated fuel price per mile came out at 16 cents while Camry Hybrid was 13 cents per mile in fuel only. Camry Hybrid is not rated 400+ mpg, is it?

Funny this also happened to me. Everything changed when Elon bought Twitter. People are sheep.

Eman says

Funny this also happened to me. Everything changed when Elon bought Twitter. People are sheep.

Yup.

I remember defending Elon at this site years before he bought Twitter pointing out he was the least woke/leftist of all of the big time Silicon Valley CEO's.

socal2 says

Eman says

Funny this also happened to me. Everything changed when Elon bought Twitter. People are sheep.

Yup.

I remember defending Elon at this site years before he bought Twitter pointing out he was the least woke/leftist of all of the big time Silicon Valley CEO's.

Well, you and I have been on both sides of the aisle so we speak from personal experience. People will believe what they want to believe. No point of trying to convince them.

Can’t believe the hatred I witnessed for Elon after he bought Twitter. People, who were for free speech, suddenly showed their real nature. Free speech = whatever they agree with. Otherwise, it’s hate speech.

Eman says

Can’t believe the hatred I witnessed for Elon after he bought Twitter. People, who were for free speech, suddenly showed their real nature. Free speech = whatever they agree with. Otherwise, it’s hate speech.

I actually like Musk for what that's worth. For me it's not about EV's themselves. It's about capacity. We don't have it. It's about infrastructure, we can't lose that tax revenue and repair our already shitty roads. We can't subsidize China and Africa for the minerals needed for batteries. We don't have the electric utility for it to jump even 30%.

My point has been the whole time. They're fun to drive. Not green. And cost more. No one has defeated any of these. Just enjoy it and not get defensive. No biggie on my end. Just don't make shit arguments about the car.

Eman says

China dumping cheap EVs below cost is cooked into those figures.

Don't know if this was posted as far as how much Ford lost on its electric truck. Seems like Tesla is the only viable EV player. I don't think the Chinese are going to be able to dump their cheap EVs on the USA, so they'll just suck out of Tesla in China as much as they can.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ford Loses $36,000 On Every F-150 Lightning Sold – Fires 70% Of EV Workers, Ramps Up Gas Production

https://greenbuildingelements.com/ford-loses-36000-on-every-f-150-lightning-sold-fires-70-of-ev-workers-ramps-up-gas-production/

.

Lucid, the California-based electric vehicle company that makes the Air Sedan, lost over $430,000 for every car it sold in the third quarter of this year, according to the firm's latest financial report.

https://insideevs.com/news/695176/lucid-lost-money-on-every-car-it-made-in-q3-2023/

The standout stat in the article is that Nio loses $35,000 on every car it makes.

https://www.carscoops.com/2023/10/nio-loses-35000-a-car-that-should-scare-the-u-s-and-europe/

Tesla's profit margin per car in 2023 was $8,279, compared to $9580 in 2022, over $6000 in 2021, and over $1700 in 2020.

https://fourweekmba.com/tesla-profit-margin-per-car/#:~:text=Tesla's%20profit%20margin%20per%20car,and%20over%20%241700%20in%202020.

Tesla will do fine until it hits market saturation. Which isn't too far off at the current price point. It needs to come down 20% and at that rate it's no longer profitable. Factor in grid issues, registration, MFT and it's about to slam into a wall.

As repeated before. No issues with EV's. It's not the future though. This market literally has been discovered in the golf cart industry. Hybrids are the future. EV's only work in warm(ish) climates over short distances. Hybrids work everywhere and have better range and power. Cyber Truck is a joke and gimmick. Cool, I can tow something for 50 miles fast, which is illegal anyway so who cares?

We simply don't have the grid for it. Prices per model are too high and that's WITH subsidies. It's provably NOT green so no one can argue that. It's a sports car that's not at a Ferrari level of cost. Upper middle class. Has no balls. I was just at a chick friends house with a Tesla I've driven last night. It's a status, mid life crisis vehicle. Again, not debatable. This is a car market bubble. I can promise I know people in the know more than anyone here with regards to the car market.

Someone, who owns a “real truck” probably $40-$50k new, just bought a “not real truck” for over $100k and wrapped it too. Hope he makes his money back quickly with the biz. 👊

Porsche is stepping up their EV game. Let’s go. 🚀🚀



https://x.com/sawyermerritt/status/1753987985328984370?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

I hope it doesn’t catch on fire. 😂

Eman says

Someone, who owns a “real truck” probably $40-$50k new, just bought a “not real truck” for over $100k and wrapped it too. Hope he makes his money back quickly with the biz. 👊

Hope this is sarcasm? First it's over priced. Second the last thing you should EVER do is wrap your car with your business information unless you're a perfect driver. Not likely. Might as well put a target on your back. Either way the $50k plus the wrap is gonna take 10 years to pay off at least over a similar model ICE vehicle.

EV's make zero sense. And they won't. Research golf carts. It will surprise you. 30 year + tech,

We thought about paying to wrap some of our contractors cars but decided against it. Especially if it is someone else's car.

WookieMan says

Eman says

Someone, who owns a “real truck” probably $40-$50k new, just bought a “not real truck” for over $100k and wrapped it too. Hope he makes his money back quickly with the biz. 👊

Hope this is sarcasm? First it's over priced. Second the last thing you should EVER do is wrap your car with your business information unless you're a perfect driver. Not likely. Might as well put a target on your back. Either way the $50k plus the wrap is gonna take 10 years to pay off at least over a similar model ICE vehicle.

EV's make zero sense. And they won't. Research golf carts. It will surprise you. 30 year + tech,

Why would I be sarcastic about a business owner, who made the purchase, that likely works FOR HIM? I wish ALL business owners well and make a boatload of money. It’s not easy to be a business owner. Too easy to be a W2 employee.

I remember reading somewhere about risk taking. It said “Take risk. If you fail, you’ll be wiser. If you succeed, you will be happy you did.” Now standing on the other side of it, it rings so true and I’m happy I did it.

Just looked at my Cybertruck reservation. That business owner paid $113k out the door for the AWD version and $135k if it’s the CyberBeast. The wrap is likely another $5-$8k. Although it’s a nice business writ off per IRS Section 179, it’s a nice chunk of change. Hope he sells enough coffee to recoup the cost.

Lots of power outages here in the Bay Area with the storm.

I hope the hipsters all got their EVs charged up.

Eman says

It’s not easy to be a business owner. Too easy to be a W2 employee.

Too true.

Even power outages are racist. None of my family and friends mentioned about power outages for today…..yet.

Eman says

It’s not easy to be a business owner. Too easy to be a W2 employee.

Dude, it's easy to do one or the other. Done both. I ran my own business. I've also ran someone else's business as a W-2. I ain't hurting at all. My skills are beyond pretty much anyone I know. Running a business is trivial.

I've set up at least 15 LLC's for commercial properties and businesses. Did the taxes. Property management. That was the side gig after running a real estate brokerage with 20 agents. Small, but ain't no one here doing it. And when I say run I mean everything. I'm technically retired. I don't have to wrk and have nothing to manage. My W-2 did me well. Running a business is writing off taxes as you lose money that you're not earning but can still spend.

Apparently power outages are real news. Thankfully we haven’t gotten hit…..yet.

https://x.com/rawsalerts/status/1754364712119050633?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

What is Ferrari doing with a Tesla EV? 🤔



https://x.com/sawyermerritt/status/1754621147725939134?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

EVs are just a niche market.

(Tesla Fluffers HATE when this FACT is presented)

November, nearly 3,900 automobile dealers across the country sent a letter to President Biden telling him that EV demand is “not keeping up with the large influx of BEVs arriving at our dealerships prompted by the current regulations. BEVs are stacking up on our lots." They continued, saying EVs are “not selling nearly as fast as they are arriving at our dealerships.”

As I explained in the written testimony I submitted to the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee last month, EVs have always been a niche-market product, not a mass-market one. And that niche market is dominated by wealthy, white, male, liberal voters who live in a handful of heavily Democratic cities and counties.

Further, that niche market is primarily defined by class and ideology. Some 57% of EV owners earn more than $100,000 annually, 75% are male, and 87% are white. Last March, Gallup reported, “a substantial majority of Republicans, 71%, say they would not consider owning an electric vehicle.”

Last October, researchers at the University of California, Berkeley, released a remarkable study that found “counties with affluent left-leaning cities” like Cambridge, San Francisco, and Seattle “play a disproportionately large role in driving the entire national increase in EV adoption.” The researchers found that over the past decade, about half of all the EVs sold in the U.S. were sold in the most heavily Democratic counties in the country. The summary of the study deserves quoting at length:
The prospect for EVs as a climate change solution hinges on their widespread adoption across the political spectrum. In this paper, we use detailed county-level data on new vehicle registrations from 2012-2022 to measure the degree to which EV adoption is concentrated in the most left-leaning U.S. counties. The results point to a strong and enduring correlation between political ideology and U.S. EV adoption. During our time period about half of all EVs went to the 10% most Democratic counties, and about one-third went to the top 5%. There is relatively little evidence that this correlation has decreased over time, and even some specifications that point to increasing correlation. The results suggest that it may be harder than previously believed to reach high levels of U.S. EV adoption.” (Emphasis added.)

Ford and the other big automakers have been spending billions of dollars to cater to the whims of a tiny segment of the overall car market — a segment heavily concentrated in a handful of liberal counties. That’s a lousy business strategy. But it is an even worse strategy for federal policymakers who must be responsive to the transportation needs of every American, not just those who live in liberal cities and large, wealthy states

In October, the chairman of Toyota Motor Corporation, Akio Toyoda, gloated about his company’s success with hybrids and the friction other automakers face in the EV business. Toyoda said automakers are "finally seeing reality" about all-electric cars. Unfortunately for Ford and its shareholders, finally seeing reality comes with multi-billion-dollar losses.

A final note: Ford’s EV sales in January fell by 11% compared to the same period last year. There’s more carnage ahead for FoMoCo.

https://robertbryce.substack.com/p/ford-lost-47b-on-evs-last-year-or

https://www.theburningplatform.com/2024/02/07/the-plunge-begins/

"Hertz just shot off the flares. It will not be “fully electrified” by 2024 – as it had said it would be back in 2020. It is already much less “electrified.” Hertz may have closed the water tight doors just in time."

I think Tesla will still be standing, but as posted on Patrick.net, the major automakers are downsizing their EV manufacturing.

I think Tesla is going to be improving steadily such as providing up to 600 miles range for even the cheapest of its EV's, the Tesla 3. And this will happen with Tesla still using lithium batteries.

I read Toyota and Volkwagen are going the hydrogen fuel cell route (not lithium batteries) for their EV's.

Eric Holder says

He's just invested shitload of money into the lithiums. Swapping them again would be imprudent.

This is correct. Free cart and AGM batteries weren't a ton cheaper. So the expense was kind of nothing. It's quick with less weight. I can zip around town for pennies. It's nice during the warmer months to get around to the grocery store, gas station and neighbors. Still use it to get the mail in winter at our CBU. I like being outside and fresh air.

I'll trash EV's all day for various reasons. They're cheaper on paper. The government is coming for them though. You can't use the roads for free basically. I don't know the rates everywhere, but isn't is something like 20¢/gallon in most places for gas? It's nothing, but I'll save $200/yr not driving my cart around town. 10 year warranty on the battery.

I've got two lots 3 blocks away. So much easier to use the cart to get there. Still have to drive the car and mower over there, but we'e gonna start our garden of the future over there now as we build. It's going to be big. So a daily trip is easy with the cart.

Saw this and thought of Wookie’s golf cart

Eman says

Saw this and thought of Wookie’s golf cart

You thought right. Still doesn't change my stance on the cars. They're glorified golf carts. You don't know the tech. It's not different. Motors and batteries. Not much else to it besides design and size of battery. Electric carts have been around for 30+ years now. I like Musk. This is nothing new though.

You bought an overpriced car. That's okay. I don't care. Not my money. Just own it is all I ask. I literally can do zero to 60 in a golf cart as fast as a Tesla. Electric motors are amazing. I'll never dispute that. Tesla isn't special. We don't have the grid or MFT funds for it to work. That's fact.

WookieMan says

Electric carts have been around for 30+ years now. I like Musk. This is nothing new though.

Can a golf cart go 405 miles on a single charge? If so, how long would it take for a golf cart to travel that 405 miles?

WookieMan says

I literally can do zero to 60 in a golf cart as fast as a Tesla.

Wookie getting ready to race a Tesla.

WookieMan says

You bought an overpriced car. That's okay. I don't care. Not my money. Just own it is all I ask. I literally can do zero to 60 in a golf cart as fast as a Tesla. Electric motors are amazing. I'll never dispute that. Tesla isn't special. We don't have the grid or MFT funds for it to work. That's fact.

It maybe overpriced for you, but not others. I believe I got good value for the car while socal2 didn’t think he overpaid for it.

You can do 0-60 in a golf cart as fast as a Tesla. Please do, time it and share the result for all of us to see.

No one says Tesla is special. The reason it makes more sense to buy Tesla over other EVs is due to its charging infrastructure. If one likes speed for the bragging rights, it’s slightly faster than other EVs at the same spec and price range.

We don’t have the grid and MFT funds for it to work. Let’s wait till 2025, like you said, to find out. I’m not a politician. I’m not in the loop or that business to know.

GNL says

WookieMan says

Electric carts have been around for 30+ years now. I like Musk. This is nothing new though.

Can a golf cart go 405 miles on a single charge? If so, how long would it take for a golf cart to travel that 405 miles?

For $10K I can get a golf cart to do that. 100%. Batteries, wheels and motor swap. 55mph. Easy.

Also no Tesla is going 405 miles on a charge without being extremely uncomfortable. 280-300 is max real life at highway speeds. Then sit at a charger for 30 minutes. Can't fit anyone in it. Can't fit luggage or go camping.

Eman says

You can do 0-60 in a golf cart as fast as a Tesla. Please do, time it and share the result for all of us to see.

Yes, people do with carts. I don't because there's no point. My cart is for around town. My car is a V8 that can tow, handle 7 passengers and luggage. Go 400 miles on a 4 minute fill up. Was $30k cheaper than any model Tesla. So the gas doesn't matter over the life of the car.

It's not anything to do with affording it. It's the practicality and function of it. A Tesla is worthless to me no matter how fun it is to drive. I could buy 5 tomorrow. I don't want one. You specifically don't listen to me and defend an overpriced toy to get A to B. Congrats on wasting $20-50k more then better cars for life. Clearly you don't have kids.

WookieMan says

Also no Tesla is going 405 miles on a charge without being extremely uncomfortable. 280-300 is max real life at highway speeds.

True, at least in my case. Ideally it must reach LA but it doesn't. @WookieMan not sure you realized before wasting your time, @Eman talks to himself most of the time!

Google said 405 mile range for a model X. Please share a video of a golf cart beating a corvette 0 to 60. I'd love to see that.

Blue says

WookieMan says

Also no Tesla is going 405 miles on a charge without being extremely uncomfortable. 280-300 is max real life at highway speeds.

True, at least in my case. Ideally it must reach LA but it doesn't. WookieMan not sure you realized before wasting your time, Eman talks to himself most of the time!

The difference between us is that I just make things work with whatever the current established rules and regulations. I don't whine and bitch like others @Blue.