patrick.net

AD says

I read Toyota and Volkwagen are going the hydrogen fuel cell route (not lithium batteries) for their EV's.

I doubt this. Hydrogen fuel cells are a very poor way to store energy. First, it's not made by cracking water into oxygen and hydrogen, it's using steam reformation where natural gas is turned into CO2 and Hydrogen in a process. Second, hydrogen is expensive. Third, it's freaking hard to store, that stuff is reactive, very reactive. Put it under pressure on a steel cylinder, and that cylinder will get brittle in time.

Using electrolysis to break water into hydrogen and oxygen seems like a good idea, until you realize it's only 50% efficient. Hydrogen has GREAT energy density in terms of kg/joule - better than just about anything, but it's bulky because it's a large molecule, and as I said, highly reactive so hard to store.

Another problem is compressing it, THAT takes a lot of energy as well. It's like 5 times more expensive than gas per unit of energy as well.

richwicks says

Put it under pressure on a steel cylinder, and that cylinder will get brittle in time.

And the little fucker Hydrogen atoms can slip through the steel molecules. So, leakage losses.

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

Does this mean one can buy a slightly used 2024 Fisker Ocean for $21k?

HeadSet says

Does this mean one can buy a slightly used 2024 Fisker Ocean for $21k?

According to these folks. But why would you want to?

Yep, you read that correctly: Our 2-month-old Fisker Ocean with 4,220 miles on the odometer is worth $21,000, according to CarMax. That's a depreciation of 69.6%.

For context, experts say most new vehicles depreciate an average of 20% in their first year of ownership, with subsequent 15% decreases in the years after. On that timeline, we've experienced more than five years' worth of depreciation in just two months. Two months.

https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/fisker-ocean-appraisal-long-term-update.html




Any minute now, we'll hear 'But...but...Tesla!' from the Tesla fluffers on this thread.

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

Any minute now, we'll hear 'But...but...Tesla!' from the Tesla fluffers on this thread.

I don't think we will. They've at least admitted they bought them because they're fun to drive and that's about it. They're not green. They're not going to be cheaper than an ICE vehicle of similar or bigger size and utility. They're a pain in the ass to charge if you do any long range driving, which most people do unless they're basement dwellers.

While it sounds like I'm mocking EV drivers, it's just reality. I grew up and am family friends with a golf cart leasing company, one of the largest. They have electric and gas carts. The electric carts are exponentially more money. Some clubs/courses don't want the noise though and will pay the difference to lease the carts for the season. I can't stand gas golf carts during a round myself. But it's more about noise and not performance of the cart.

We've had EV's around since I was a child. Golf carts. They're not practical long term. I inherited my electric golf cart (free). Yes, it is fun to drive. Very zippy for being an IL flatlander. To replace my Lituium battery in 6-10 years I'm looking at $3k by that time. Just for the battery. We are 2-4 years from seeing what battery replacement costs are going to be on EV's. There will be a pretty large percentage that go back to ICE cars once they see the sticker price. It will be $20k, so the car is basically worthless. EV's are the fastest depreciating vehicle on the planet.

richwicks says

Hydrogen has GREAT energy density in terms of kg/joule - better than just about anything, but it's bulky because it's a large molecule

?? Isn't hydrogen the smallest possible molecule? An H2 molecule has only 2 hydrogen atoms, each with only one proton and one electron.

WookieMan says

We've had EV's around since I was a child. Golf carts.

Longer than that:

EV enthusiasts : Of Course EVs will be expense at first! But the idea is for everyone to adopt them so the price will eventually come down. I don't mind being an early adopter.

Also EV enthusiasts : What the fuck my $65K EV is now only worth $20K

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

HeadSet says

richwicks says

Hydrogen has GREAT energy density in terms of kg/joule - better than just about anything, but it's bulky because it's a large molecule

?? Isn't hydrogen the smallest possible molecule? An H2 molecule has only 2 hydrogen atoms, each with only one proton and one electron.

Nope, it's got the lowest density of any molecule or atom, that's why it floats. It floats better than helium does, but its highly reactive.

You've seen the periodic table:



On the left, atoms are as big as they can be, and they get smaller going to the right, but they explode in size on the far right. On the far right are the noble. I think only helium is more dense than the element on the far right.

Basically, every element has one more proton than the element preceding it. Picks up neutrons as well, so as you move down, it gets denser and denser.

A chemist or a physicist can explain why better than I can.

Hydrogen's reactivity IS WHERE the energy comes from. Oxidation in particular.

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

Hydrogen's reactivity IS WHERE the energy comes from. Oxidation in particular.

Sure, but it's damned reactive. It makes metal brittle over time, so how do you contain the damned stuff?

It sure seemed like a good idea back when I was a kid to use hydrogen to store excess electricity for later use, but it turns out to be a terrible way of doing it

Ceffer says

I don't believe this is real, it's certainly not in the United States.

HeadSet says

That was impressive, but appears to be dependent on extremely detailed geo data. How did the car know where the 4 way stops were, unless such info was programmed in. Such a reliance on detailed street data would mean that each time an intersection is changed to a a 4 way stop, for example, that street data would have to be propagated to all self-driving cars in the country.

The work on visual information fed to the machine, and they can recognize stop signs, speed limits, etc. Geolocation data is 1990's technology really.

@richwicks

HeadSet says

HunterTits says

That's Australia, right? Says Ministry of Health but the phone number is not North American. That rules out Canada.

Interesting that they have 800 numbers there.

It is New Zealand

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

richwicks

HeadSet says

HunterTits says

That's Australia, right? Says Ministry of Health but the phone number is not North American. That rules out Canada.

Interesting that they have 800 numbers there.

It is New Zealand

Lol. Asks for links constantly and ignores the one that is obvious. Makes one think if he's a bot. It's clear as can be it's not the US.

WookieMan says

Lol. Asks for links constantly and ignores the one that is obvious. Makes one think if he's a bot. It's clear as can be it's not the US.

LOL he's got you there @richwicks

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

WookieMan says

Lol. Asks for links constantly and ignores the one that is obvious. Makes one think if he's a bot. It's clear as can be it's not the US.

LOL he's got you there richwicks

I didn't care to go through it since it was Ceffer's post, and he doesn't give a damned about passing on totally bullshit information, doctored images, fake news articles, and doctored videos.

It's not in the United States so why would anybody care about this? And there's no way to verify it, we can't even be certain the nation.

richwicks says

It's not in the United States so why would anybody care about this? And there's no way to verify it, we can't even be certain the nation.

Great. No one should care about Isreal or Gaza. Thanks for agreeing with me. Being the link boy, you do realize it ends in govt.nz right? It's New Zealand.... One of the biggest covid whores on the planet. How was this not obvious???

And if you can't believe this link, then all links are shit. Keep digging.

WookieMan says

Great. No one should care about Isreal or Gaza.

IF THE US WASN'T PAYING FOR IT TO HAPPEN.

Is the US paying New Zealand to enforce ridiculous rules on the population over the bullshit pandemic? No? Then I'm not at ALL in involved with it, am I? It's a responsibility of the people of New Zealand to fuck over their government. HOWEVER, if MY government was keeping New Zealand's government from fucking falling apart year after year after year after year for 50 FUCKING years, I'd have an opinion on it.

WookieMan says

Being the link boy, you do realize it ends in govt.nz right?

Where's the link?



You see, I have tried to correct Ceffer MULTIPLE times, thinking (at one time) he was ACTUALLY interested in knowing what is going on, but he just continues to fucking post bullshit continuously, so I basically ignore him and never research him, because correcting him a Sisyphean task. He doesn't give a FUCK if he's passing on bogus information. I don't do that.

Passing on bullshit information is like the TV news lying to you. If I wanted a fucking TV I'd buy one. It's easy to get quality information, but when you have people of LOW quality polluting a space, it diminishes the entire site. I know to ignore Ceffer, but some new person showing up won't. He doesn't care if he clogs up the fucking toilet with shit. He just Alex Jones' up everything. It's easy to point people down a false rabbit hole, it's also unethical. That's the purpose of our fucking propaganda system, is to point people in the wrong direction. They don't care what you believe or think, AS LONG as it's wrong.

HeadSet says

WookieMan says

We've had EV's around since I was a child. Golf carts.

Longer than that:

These were popular with weemenfolk, because you didn't have to start the with a crank handle, which required some physical strength and came with the risk of breaking your hand if engine backfired. Once electric starter was invented it was game over for EVs.

AD says

I think Tesla will still be standing, but as posted on Patrick.net, the major automakers are downsizing their EV manufacturing.

I think Tesla is going to be improving steadily such as providing up to 600 miles range for even the cheapest of its EV's, the Tesla 3. And this will happen with Tesla still using lithium batteries.

I read Toyota and Volkwagen are going the hydrogen fuel cell route (not lithium batteries) for their EV's.

Toyota is into 2nd gen
of their H2 fuel cell cars and it's not looking good: they are giving $22-40K discount on every new one and throw in $15K fuel card. Even used ones come with the card. There is a 2019 Mirai with 30K miles on the clock being sold as CPO for $9K at the local dealer and it comes with a $15K card. And it's eligible for $4K in Fed tax rebates plus whatever is CA giving out ($2K?).

BTW, at current hydrogen fuel prices $15K gives you ~30K miles.

You know, that's also quite a good list of the ways the government can mandate that you inject the toxxine.

We should think of practical ways around all of them.

Patrick says

You know, that's also quite a good list of the ways the government can mandate that you inject the toxxine.

We should think of practical ways around all of them.

Open defiance is the way to go.

richwicks says

Where's the link?

Surely this is in jest?? How to pay the fucking bill dude... You're starting to lose me Rich. I don't read everything everyone posts or links, but if you cannot find the link I think you're lost dude. www.fines.govt.nz

You just go on a rant about nothing. You go to your same go too's. We're the worlds super power and police. Is what it is. I'd rather not be Ukraine or potentially Taiwan. Biden has fucked up our borders but that will change in November. I'm optimistic about the future. New media is changing things as well. You gotta stop living in the bottom of a garbage can like a lot of people are lately, not just you.

Love or hate the car, but Toyota did get it right with the Prius. Not practical for my uses, but hybrids were and are the future. You need gas. That's undeniable. You cannot charge a battery quickly.

Wife is about to drive down to St. Louis area. She'd have to stop and charge and waste an hour to finish the trip. She grosses $913/hr in sales likely this year. 365 days, every hour. That hour charging cost $900. Who cares if it's free? That would be $60 in gas and maybe $30 in time. You're talking a $700-800 difference in time savings. AND you paid more for the car than her SUV. An EV would easily cost my family $10k more than an ICE. So maybe I'm biased.

I don't get the argument over this. EV's are shit unless you drive 10-20 miles a day and charge at home. I guess my opinion is based off our driving habits. No EV on the market would remotely work for us without losing tons of money.

WookieMan says

richwicks says

Where's the link?

Surely this is in jest?? How to pay the fucking bill dude...

As I said, I put in very low effort into Ceffer's posts. I occasionally research them to see if they are true, 99% of the time, they aren't, and it was just a waste of time.

I'm not the only one that didn't read another empty post and asked about it.

WookieMan says

richwicks says

Where's the link?

Surely this is in jest?? How to pay the fucking bill dude... You're starting to lose me Rich. I don't read everything everyone posts or links, but if you cannot find the link I think you're lost dude. www.fines.govt.nz

You just go on a rant about nothing. You go to your same go too's. We're the worlds super power and police. Is what it is. I'd rather not be Ukraine or potentially Taiwan. Biden has fucked up our borders but that will change in November. I'm optimistic about the future. New media is changing things as well. You gotta stop living in the bottom of a garbage can like a lot of people are lately, not just you.

The guy is still looking for Nord Stream pipes in the Black Sea. =))

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

These are jornos playing with their employer's money, right? Because I can't imagine a normal person shelling out their hard-earned $70K for some midsize SUV from an unknown, unproven manufacturer....

2 yr lease - maybe, but buying it outright - no way, Jose.

richwicks says

As I said, I put in very low effort into Ceffer's posts. I occasionally research them to see if they are true, 99% of the time, they aren't, and it was just a waste of time.

I'm not the only one that didn't read another empty post and asked about it.

I don't want to get into user banter, but Ceffer generally posts correct or at least centric posts. With dry sarcasm/language. I do think you get lost in written sarcasm based on your responses. Just being honest. And please don't respond Iraq was fake and no WMD's and we're all idiots for believing it. Under the assumption anyone here actually believed it. I should turn you in for animal abuse watching you beat the already dead horse... again and again and again.

WookieMan says

I don't want to get into user banter, but Ceffer generally posts correct or at least centric posts.

No he doesn't. He posts every goddamned thing he sees and leaves it to everybody else to confirm the veracity of it. He has NO FILTER at all.

WookieMan says

I do think you get lost in written sarcasm based on your responses.

Sarcasm is done by voice. You cannot write sarcasm. You can write satire, however, in fucking clown world it is impossible to distinguish between satire and an actual story now, which is why I essentially ignore "mainstream news" other than to know how the cattle and sheep are being led.

WookieMan says

And please don't respond Iraq was fake and no WMD's and we're all idiots for believing it.

If you believed it, you were a fool, and if you believe the current bullshit, you're an idiot. If you believe that Qaddafi was handing out Viagra, that Assad was "gassing his own people" and that's why the US bombed Syria, or that Ukraine was attacked by Russia "for no reason at all", you're a fucking retard. I'm tired of talking to people who continue to believe the latest nonsense and will happily support the New Thing ™®© just because the propaganda box told them some bullshit.

We live with the fucking Patriot Act now because of fools that were so fucking stupid they believed that Saddam Hussein was about to drop a nuclear weapon on the United States. The Patriot Act allows mass surveillance on ANYBODY without a warrant, this means it allows our intelligence agencies to intercept and record every phone conversation made in the United States, and I know how trivial this is to do. IDIOTS allows a Gestapo to be formed and although you might be able to shrug this off a bit, your kids won't. Everything that's been posted and spoke in the last 20 years was trivial to record, so it was.

I'm fed up with people believing bullshit, and in particular passing on bullshit without any compunction as to whether they are passing on true or false information. It's immoral to lie, and passing off information as truth when it's not, is the same thing as lying, you're just doing it one step removed.

You need help bro. You drivel on about the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over..... See a therapist.

You're not making change and just bitching about singular events in the past. STOP living in the past. Change the future. I do, you don't. I've never seen an adult man whine as much as you do. Let it go Elsa. I'm sure that will trigger something....

Just admit you didn't see the fucking link that you always whine about. You were wrong.

WookieMan says

You need help bro. You drivel on about the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over..... See a therapist.

I don't need a therapist. I need the mentally weak to goddamn man up and not be fooled by the NEXT bullshit government lie.

The reason I keep going back to the Iraq War, is not that just so many dipshits fell for the bullshit, but so many dipshits silently went along with it, like the pussies they are, then allowed the government to spy on the ENTIRE POPULATION as a result. What a bunch of fucking cucks.

WookieMan says

Change the future. I do, you don't. I've never seen an adult man whine as much as you do. Let it go Elsa. I'm sure that will trigger something....

You want to "trigger me"? Just say "This government is pretty good, we shouldn't change it! I love the status quo. Our government does a good job of working on behalf of the nation".

But I bet you don't think that, but you won't say what a piece of shit government this is. You complain about my whining and moaning, you just fucking take a government dick up your ass without complaint at all. I guess you're better than me. You're habituated to talking to slaves and I'm fed up with slaves. I consider you semi-human animals, capable of thinking, but unwilling to do it.

The reason I write "diatribes" is to demonstrate this. How many stood up to the fucking vaccine? The shutdown? How many saw it as bullshit? How many realize the Ukraine war was bullshit before it started? You fuckers keep getting lied to, believe the bullshit, and drag me into it. You have a civic duty to call out bullshit, either you don't engage in that, or you're too stupid to realize you're being lied to.

WookieMan says

You need help bro. You drivel on about the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over..... See a therapist.

I told him pretty much the same thing last year, @WookieMan

He starts by reading something...may or may not gets triggered into then engaging in this total imaginary movie/conversation in his head that kicks in or something. And then what we see in his posting after that is the diarrhea form of it, more or less. This is why he ignores what we respond with in kind or twists it all up in the context of the imaginary conversation he's having.

@richwicks you do need help. Seriously.

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

This is why he ignores what we respond with in kind or twists it all up in the context of the imaginary conversation he's having.

I don't get it. I've not agreed with you all the time and we've had back and forth. His comments always fucking lead to Iraq and WMDS's even if the topic is about gays humping dogs. We all know our government isn't perfect. Every fucking comment doesn't need to go back to something that's water under the bridge. It's going to happen again regardless of bitching on Patnet and not doing anything on his end. I know there's ignore, but the bitching and whining has got to stop at some point. Grow a fucking pair Rich.

RWSGFY says

These are jornos playing with their employer's money, right? Because I can't imagine a normal person shelling out their hard-earned $70K for some midsize SUV from an unknown, unproven manufacturer....

2 yr lease - maybe, but buying it outright - no way, Jose.

Oh contraire. They do.