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985
PeopleUnited
2024 Apr 2, 7:03pm
PeopleUnited
2024 Apr 2, 7:03pm
WookieMan says
That thread even exist?
It would be more interesting than rehashing the Iraq war for the quadrillionth time.
The Iraq war was just more government graft for the MIC. Plus Hussein threatened the Petrodollar so had to be made example of by the powers that be. But now that we live in a post-truth era where truth is treason in this empire of lies, it seems passé to constantly harangue on a war decades ago when the lies of today are sufficiently evil and warrant more urgent concern.
gays humping dogs
That thread even exist?
It would be more interesting than rehashing the Iraq war for the quadrillionth time.
The Iraq war was just more government graft for the MIC. Plus Hussein threatened the Petrodollar so had to be made example of by the powers that be. But now that we live in a post-truth era where truth is treason in this empire of lies, it seems passé to constantly harangue on a war decades ago when the lies of today are sufficiently evil and warrant more urgent concern.
986
richwicks
2024 Apr 2, 7:21pm
richwicks
2024 Apr 2, 7:21pm
PeopleUnited says
It's a reference to people infecting dogs with monkeypox. Draw your own conclusions of what happened.
Once dogs and kids were starting to get monkeypox from being around gay males, the whole monkeypox thing went away and they renamed it to "m-pox". It was going to be the "new pandemic" if you recall, but I think unlike the Iraq War, people did learn their lesson with these health panics. That killed it.
If you recall in the 1980's, authorities falsely claimed that heterosexuals were at the same risk of HIV as homosexual couples were. Not even close, anal intercourse allows a much easier infection route, and also lifestyle - homosexuals have far more sexual partners than heterosexual couples. I've read about this, it was apparently a deliberate attempt to reduce population by reducing sexual interaction - at least some claim.
It's not even known to this day if HIV is actually the cause of AIDS. Kary Mullis didn't believe it was, although if HIV become detectable in the blood, you have AIDS. HIV may be a benign virus that only becomes apparent once the immune system is compromised. One hypothesis is that people with AIDS actually are getting it from excessive drug use which is also rampant in the gay community. If HIV isn't the cause of AIDS, all the attempts to attack and eliminate HIV are worthless, and it's possible HIV is a symbiotic virus rather than just a parasitic one, and if that's the case, eliminating HIV in a human body may have deleterious effects.
PeopleUnited says
No, it wasn't just "more". That war changed our nation's direction. We allowed torture due to that war, the Patriot Act, we setup "free speech zones" (remember them), had a "terror alert level" which was used exclusively to get the administration out of trouble when placed under scrutiny, and established the concept of "pre-emptive war", which up until that point was unthinkable, because "we cannot wait for the final proof in the form of a mushroom cloud".
Any credibility left of the media, across the board, was destroyed in those years. NPR and PBS still did decent work in the 1990, but by 2005, they may as well have been CNN today.
With that war, justification for war was thrown away, replaced with absolute nonsense. I know a person that read the Economist religiously, and thinks that the Syria war was all about the US going into Syria to cool the civil war down. He has no idea that the US funded ISIS, that Israel treated and supported the group, and that the US (or Israel or the UK, whatever) staged the Douma Chemical Attack. It's quite probably that the chemical attack in Ghouta probably DID happen, and WE did it. Our government may very well have poisoned a population in order to start a war, if that doesn't brown your pants a bit, you're not thinking about enough.
PeopleUnited says
What does post-truth mean?
What was before? PRE-TRUTH? What you're experiencing is an entire population SLOWLY becoming aware of what is going on. I'd argue our media has always been garbage pumping out bullshit all my life. I became aware of this in my early 20's starting with the Nayirah Testimony. The difference with the first Iraq War (Desert Storm) and the later one is that the propaganda was exposed PRIOR to the war starting. It could have been prevented.
The limitation on the Syrian war was in part that so many people were aware that the government was lying about it and knew. That's why ground troops didn't go in. It's pretty well known that ISIS was a US proxy in some way, that the White Helmets didn't exist, and the Kurdish population was simply used as a weapon against Syria - they're just the PKK, a communist terrorist group, a terrorist group according to our government anyhow.
PeopleUnited says
It's a touchstone to get people to realize that the current new lies, are the same as the old ones. The point of the Iraq War is that 1/2 the country resisted it, and at least that 1/2 was reachable for a long time. It's taken time, but "Conservatives" have finally become aware of it. It took them a full decade to realize it wasn't a mistake.
It would be more interesting than rehashing the Iraq war for the quadrillionth time.
It's a reference to people infecting dogs with monkeypox. Draw your own conclusions of what happened.
Once dogs and kids were starting to get monkeypox from being around gay males, the whole monkeypox thing went away and they renamed it to "m-pox". It was going to be the "new pandemic" if you recall, but I think unlike the Iraq War, people did learn their lesson with these health panics. That killed it.
If you recall in the 1980's, authorities falsely claimed that heterosexuals were at the same risk of HIV as homosexual couples were. Not even close, anal intercourse allows a much easier infection route, and also lifestyle - homosexuals have far more sexual partners than heterosexual couples. I've read about this, it was apparently a deliberate attempt to reduce population by reducing sexual interaction - at least some claim.
It's not even known to this day if HIV is actually the cause of AIDS. Kary Mullis didn't believe it was, although if HIV become detectable in the blood, you have AIDS. HIV may be a benign virus that only becomes apparent once the immune system is compromised. One hypothesis is that people with AIDS actually are getting it from excessive drug use which is also rampant in the gay community. If HIV isn't the cause of AIDS, all the attempts to attack and eliminate HIV are worthless, and it's possible HIV is a symbiotic virus rather than just a parasitic one, and if that's the case, eliminating HIV in a human body may have deleterious effects.
PeopleUnited says
The Iraq war was just more government graft for the MIC.
No, it wasn't just "more". That war changed our nation's direction. We allowed torture due to that war, the Patriot Act, we setup "free speech zones" (remember them), had a "terror alert level" which was used exclusively to get the administration out of trouble when placed under scrutiny, and established the concept of "pre-emptive war", which up until that point was unthinkable, because "we cannot wait for the final proof in the form of a mushroom cloud".
Any credibility left of the media, across the board, was destroyed in those years. NPR and PBS still did decent work in the 1990, but by 2005, they may as well have been CNN today.
With that war, justification for war was thrown away, replaced with absolute nonsense. I know a person that read the Economist religiously, and thinks that the Syria war was all about the US going into Syria to cool the civil war down. He has no idea that the US funded ISIS, that Israel treated and supported the group, and that the US (or Israel or the UK, whatever) staged the Douma Chemical Attack. It's quite probably that the chemical attack in Ghouta probably DID happen, and WE did it. Our government may very well have poisoned a population in order to start a war, if that doesn't brown your pants a bit, you're not thinking about enough.
PeopleUnited says
But now that we live in a post-truth era where truth is treason in this empire of lies
What does post-truth mean?
What was before? PRE-TRUTH? What you're experiencing is an entire population SLOWLY becoming aware of what is going on. I'd argue our media has always been garbage pumping out bullshit all my life. I became aware of this in my early 20's starting with the Nayirah Testimony. The difference with the first Iraq War (Desert Storm) and the later one is that the propaganda was exposed PRIOR to the war starting. It could have been prevented.
The limitation on the Syrian war was in part that so many people were aware that the government was lying about it and knew. That's why ground troops didn't go in. It's pretty well known that ISIS was a US proxy in some way, that the White Helmets didn't exist, and the Kurdish population was simply used as a weapon against Syria - they're just the PKK, a communist terrorist group, a terrorist group according to our government anyhow.
PeopleUnited says
it seems passé to constantly harangue on a war decades ago when the lies of today are sufficiently evil and warrant more urgent concern.
It's a touchstone to get people to realize that the current new lies, are the same as the old ones. The point of the Iraq War is that 1/2 the country resisted it, and at least that 1/2 was reachable for a long time. It's taken time, but "Conservatives" have finally become aware of it. It took them a full decade to realize it wasn't a mistake.
987
MolotovCocktail
2024 Apr 2, 7:40pm
MolotovCocktail
2024 Apr 2, 7:40pm
socal2 says
That is over 60% of the available US car market!
Tesla can't be everything for everyone, but the available US market is plenty big.
Hybrids are still retarded with twice the complexity and twice the maintenance and things to go wrong compared to straight up BEV's - they are not much cheaper and you don't get the massive performance of a Tesla. I don't drive Tesla's to save gas or be environmental. I drive them because they are the most powerful and advanced car I can afford. How is that not understandable? I can't afford a comparable Porsche, BMW, Mercedes or Audi.
I spend alot of time driving - life's too short to drive something boring or weak if you have some options.
988
MolotovCocktail
2024 Apr 2, 7:41pm
MolotovCocktail
2024 Apr 2, 7:41pm
socal2 says
Great day to by MOAR TSLA because "smart people" in Wall Street don't seem to understand macro in Q1.
- Eco-terrorist attack on Berlin factory shutting down production for over 2 weeks
- Houthi attacks on shipping causing thousands of cars to be stuck on ships from China going around Africa to reach Europe
- Fremont factory re-tooling for the new Model 3 Highland launch
989
ForcedTQ
2024 Apr 2, 8:26pm
So if I want a cheap commuter EV I might be able to find a $10k Model 3 in about 6 months it seems…. Only entertaing due to free charging at work that would delete my fuel bill
990
richwicks
2024 Apr 2, 8:50pm
richwicks
2024 Apr 2, 8:50pm
ForcedTQ says
Look at leasing. I think the Leaf was leased for $50 a month for a while. Probably that deal is gone, but there are some pretty sweet incentives for leasing, as long as you don't mind soaking the taxpayer for your almost free vehicle.
So if I want a cheap commuter EV I might be able to find a $10k Model 3 in about 6 months it seems…. Only entertaing due to free charging at work that would delete my fuel bill
Look at leasing. I think the Leaf was leased for $50 a month for a while. Probably that deal is gone, but there are some pretty sweet incentives for leasing, as long as you don't mind soaking the taxpayer for your almost free vehicle.
991
WookieMan
2024 Apr 2, 9:15pm
WookieMan
2024 Apr 2, 9:15pm
richwicks says
MORE people died in Chicago than ALL US troops in Iraq AND Afghanistan. Much of the of the civilian deaths in both countries was attributed to the US, but was actually Muslim infighting between sects. Shia and Sunni. This is why no one has ever been successful in ever taking control of these countries 100%. They are fucking crazy people.
I agree we made a dip shit attempt to try. We have FAR bigger bigger problems at home. We're more war torn here than there. So maybe move there if you think they're better. It's water under the bridge and you cannot or don't even try to control it, just bitch. Enjoy a miserable life.
socal2 says
He acts like the Iraq war was some uniquely horrible and evil act by America.
It was.
MORE people died in Chicago than ALL US troops in Iraq AND Afghanistan. Much of the of the civilian deaths in both countries was attributed to the US, but was actually Muslim infighting between sects. Shia and Sunni. This is why no one has ever been successful in ever taking control of these countries 100%. They are fucking crazy people.
I agree we made a dip shit attempt to try. We have FAR bigger bigger problems at home. We're more war torn here than there. So maybe move there if you think they're better. It's water under the bridge and you cannot or don't even try to control it, just bitch. Enjoy a miserable life.
992
ForcedTQ
2024 Apr 2, 9:33pm
richwicks says
My financial principles preclude me from leasing or financing an auto. Also not going to soak the taxpayers. Hell, I won’t even DIY solar on my house with an FTC claim. I’ll pay for it myself.
ForcedTQ says
So if I want a cheap commuter EV I might be able to find a $10k Model 3 in about 6 months it seems…. Only entertaing due to free charging at work that would delete my fuel bill
Look at leasing. I think the Leaf was leased for $50 a month for a while. Probably that deal is gone, but there are some pretty sweet incentives for leasing, as long as you don't mind soaking the taxpayer for your almost free vehicle.
My financial principles preclude me from leasing or financing an auto. Also not going to soak the taxpayers. Hell, I won’t even DIY solar on my house with an FTC claim. I’ll pay for it myself.
993
richwicks
2024 Apr 2, 10:04pm
richwicks
2024 Apr 2, 10:04pm
WookieMan says
I'm not complaining about the US troop deaths. I'm complaining about spending 1 trillion dollars or whatever to kill 800,000 Iraqis for no discernible benefit.
I no longer appeal to the morality of the situation because people just simply don't care about that. It cost $1,250,000 to kill each Iraqi about. For what benefit to the United States?
WookieMan says
Would the sectarian violence have happened if the United States didn't go to war? And who cares about the violence really? What strategic or financial advantage did the US gain in this war? Halliburton made a ton of money, as did Offense Contractors. The US taxpayer paid for it, and got absolutely nothing out of it other than a bill.
WookieMan says
If you IDIOTS can't learn from the past, you will repeat the same bullshit in the future. It does appear to be impossible to get you paramecium to understand this. You think the Iraq War has absolutely nothing to do with our current state, it has EVERYTHING to do with it. Our surveillance state was setup as a result of it.
It's also not water under the bridge, we live with the consequences of that war, and because it wasn't stopped, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Somalia, and Ukraine have happened and they also have no financial or strategic objectives, or if they do, they aren't announced. I don't see any. I know some investment bankers are going to make a shit-ton of money off from Ukraine, because Ukraine is going to be slaves to them.
What the MIC does to foreign adversaries, they will eventually do to US. I know you can't comprehend that, but this empire has quite a long way to fall, and they aren't going to go out with a whimper like the USSR did.
MORE people died in Chicago than ALL US troops in Iraq AND Afghanistan.
I'm not complaining about the US troop deaths. I'm complaining about spending 1 trillion dollars or whatever to kill 800,000 Iraqis for no discernible benefit.
I no longer appeal to the morality of the situation because people just simply don't care about that. It cost $1,250,000 to kill each Iraqi about. For what benefit to the United States?
WookieMan says
Much of the of the civilian deaths in both countries was attributed to the US, but was actually Muslim infighting between sects. Shia and Sunni. This is why no one has ever been successful in ever taking control of these countries 100%. They are fucking crazy people.
Would the sectarian violence have happened if the United States didn't go to war? And who cares about the violence really? What strategic or financial advantage did the US gain in this war? Halliburton made a ton of money, as did Offense Contractors. The US taxpayer paid for it, and got absolutely nothing out of it other than a bill.
WookieMan says
I agree we made a dip shit attempt to try. We have FAR bigger bigger problems at home. We're more war torn here than there. So maybe move there if you think they're better. It's water under the bridge and you cannot or don't even try to control it, just bitch. Enjoy a miserable life.
If you IDIOTS can't learn from the past, you will repeat the same bullshit in the future. It does appear to be impossible to get you paramecium to understand this. You think the Iraq War has absolutely nothing to do with our current state, it has EVERYTHING to do with it. Our surveillance state was setup as a result of it.
It's also not water under the bridge, we live with the consequences of that war, and because it wasn't stopped, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Somalia, and Ukraine have happened and they also have no financial or strategic objectives, or if they do, they aren't announced. I don't see any. I know some investment bankers are going to make a shit-ton of money off from Ukraine, because Ukraine is going to be slaves to them.
What the MIC does to foreign adversaries, they will eventually do to US. I know you can't comprehend that, but this empire has quite a long way to fall, and they aren't going to go out with a whimper like the USSR did.
994
richwicks
2024 Apr 2, 10:13pm
richwicks
2024 Apr 2, 10:13pm
ForcedTQ says
You may want to reconsider buying an EV at this time. Their lifespan is about 10 years. Replacement of the battery is basically a new car. I'm leery of them. I doubt there's a single Tesla on the road that was built in 2014 that's on the road today.
There's a very hard limit to the number of charges and discharges, and the battery discharges even when NOT in use. I think the whole industry is crazy. It doesn't solve any problem. It's greenwashing in my opinion. I'm sure you've got a smart phone, do you keep the old one when you replace it? I find that the lfespan of a phone with relatively heavy use is about 5 years due to battery deterioration. I used to use my old phone all the time to listen to podcasts, until it would finally not accept a charge any longer. Miss that phone.. All you can buy are these giant notepads today.
My financial principles preclude me from leasing or financing an auto.
You may want to reconsider buying an EV at this time. Their lifespan is about 10 years. Replacement of the battery is basically a new car. I'm leery of them. I doubt there's a single Tesla on the road that was built in 2014 that's on the road today.
There's a very hard limit to the number of charges and discharges, and the battery discharges even when NOT in use. I think the whole industry is crazy. It doesn't solve any problem. It's greenwashing in my opinion. I'm sure you've got a smart phone, do you keep the old one when you replace it? I find that the lfespan of a phone with relatively heavy use is about 5 years due to battery deterioration. I used to use my old phone all the time to listen to podcasts, until it would finally not accept a charge any longer. Miss that phone.. All you can buy are these giant notepads today.
996
WookieMan
2024 Apr 4, 9:13pm
WookieMan
2024 Apr 4, 9:13pm
socal2 says
Dude, you like your car. I haven't seen anyone argue it's a bad car for YOUR wants and needs. It's overpriced and takes 3-4 years for EV to pay off the difference of a similar car. Sure not as zippy, but still accomplishes the mission. Like a Toyota Corolla or similar.
Also there's no cars that need to go through the Suez or Red Sea that come to America. They come across the Pacific or European cars across the Atlantic. Tesla might source parts elsewhere, but it's mainly an American made car. Most of Toyota and Nissan are made here. Can't recall the company but most of your new car tires come from a Asian company that built a huge tire plant near Nashville.
The global thing didn't work out. We've been decoupling from it for a while and it was accelerated by covid. Your cars in the next 10 years will all be made in America or Mexico.
EV's have reached their saturation point. Car buyers are men for the most part. I know plenty of women that had their mid-life crisis and got a Tesla. Men want sports cars that make noise. Sale will continue to drop. Cyber Truck deliveries will get the soy boys that think it makes them look manly. Those sales will dry up as well. Hence why Musk is on every podcast on the planet and has started advertising. I don't play the stock game, but I'd be shorting if I was a gambler.
Great day to by MOAR TSLA because "smart people" in Wall Street don't seem to understand macro in Q1.
- Eco-terrorist attack on Berlin factory shutting down production for over 2 weeks
- Houthi attacks on shipping causing thousands of cars to be stuck on ships from China going around Africa to reach Europe
- Fremont factory re-tooling for the new Model 3 Highland launch
Dude, you like your car. I haven't seen anyone argue it's a bad car for YOUR wants and needs. It's overpriced and takes 3-4 years for EV to pay off the difference of a similar car. Sure not as zippy, but still accomplishes the mission. Like a Toyota Corolla or similar.
Also there's no cars that need to go through the Suez or Red Sea that come to America. They come across the Pacific or European cars across the Atlantic. Tesla might source parts elsewhere, but it's mainly an American made car. Most of Toyota and Nissan are made here. Can't recall the company but most of your new car tires come from a Asian company that built a huge tire plant near Nashville.
The global thing didn't work out. We've been decoupling from it for a while and it was accelerated by covid. Your cars in the next 10 years will all be made in America or Mexico.
EV's have reached their saturation point. Car buyers are men for the most part. I know plenty of women that had their mid-life crisis and got a Tesla. Men want sports cars that make noise. Sale will continue to drop. Cyber Truck deliveries will get the soy boys that think it makes them look manly. Those sales will dry up as well. Hence why Musk is on every podcast on the planet and has started advertising. I don't play the stock game, but I'd be shorting if I was a gambler.
997
HeadSet
2024 Apr 5, 7:19am
HeadSet
2024 Apr 5, 7:19am
WookieMan says
Tesla Stock trading about $170 today. Let's check back later and see if shorting would have won.
I don't play the stock game, but I'd be shorting if I was a gambler.
Tesla Stock trading about $170 today. Let's check back later and see if shorting would have won.
998
socal2
2024 Apr 5, 8:02am
WookieMan says
The Chinese gigafactory factory is one of Tesla's highest production volume factories and ships cars to Europe that would use the Suez canal. There is also major component suppliers that were disrupted having to send ships around the horn of Africa.
WookieMan says
I thought you told me that you don't need power or acceleration and driving is no kick for you? You are fine tooling around in a big Japanese Nissan provided you can tow your toys around? If you like fast and powerful cars now, you can't get a faster or more powerful car than a Tesla for the price.
WookieMan says
You sure about that?
It's already iconic with some groups.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/E8y7vbQnlx8
Also there's no cars that need to go through the Suez or Red Sea that come to America. They come across the Pacific or European cars across the Atlantic. Tesla might source parts elsewhere, but it's mainly an American made car.
The Chinese gigafactory factory is one of Tesla's highest production volume factories and ships cars to Europe that would use the Suez canal. There is also major component suppliers that were disrupted having to send ships around the horn of Africa.
WookieMan says
Car buyers are men for the most part. I know plenty of women that had their mid-life crisis and got a Tesla. Men want sports cars that make noise.
I thought you told me that you don't need power or acceleration and driving is no kick for you? You are fine tooling around in a big Japanese Nissan provided you can tow your toys around? If you like fast and powerful cars now, you can't get a faster or more powerful car than a Tesla for the price.
WookieMan says
Cyber Truck deliveries will get the soy boys that think it makes them look manly.
You sure about that?
It's already iconic with some groups.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/E8y7vbQnlx8
999
socal2
2024 Apr 5, 8:08am
HeadSet says
I think the stock will be pretty flat this year. Lots of Liberals hating on Elon driving B.S. FUD stories and trying to prop up the dying Fords and GM's. Interest rates are high impacting all auto sales.
The next big leg up will be later this year when they introduce the much cheaper Model 2 and Full Self Driving gets more mainstream.
All Tesla owners are getting a free one month subscription to FSD this month (haven't gotten mine yet). But the initial reviews from drivers is quite positive.
I don't think people appreciate how much FSD is going to change transportation and our society. How do you put a value on this technology? Especially if Tesla licenses it to other automakers? There is no other technology on the planet that is close to this level of useful AI and Tesla is growing their lead every single day with millions of miles of new training data from all their cars on the road.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs96BKDCDR4
Tesla Stock trading about $170 today. Let's check back later and see if shorting would have won.
I think the stock will be pretty flat this year. Lots of Liberals hating on Elon driving B.S. FUD stories and trying to prop up the dying Fords and GM's. Interest rates are high impacting all auto sales.
The next big leg up will be later this year when they introduce the much cheaper Model 2 and Full Self Driving gets more mainstream.
All Tesla owners are getting a free one month subscription to FSD this month (haven't gotten mine yet). But the initial reviews from drivers is quite positive.
I don't think people appreciate how much FSD is going to change transportation and our society. How do you put a value on this technology? Especially if Tesla licenses it to other automakers? There is no other technology on the planet that is close to this level of useful AI and Tesla is growing their lead every single day with millions of miles of new training data from all their cars on the road.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs96BKDCDR4
1000
HeadSet
2024 Apr 5, 10:51am
HeadSet
2024 Apr 5, 10:51am
socal2 says
I wonder if Uber and Lyft stock will also increase because this FSD looks like it will soon eliminate the need for a driver. I have long predicted that private cars will be unaffordable by 2035 and people will just order rides via app and have a FSD vehicle add them to an irregular route.
I don't think people appreciate how much FSD is going to change transportation and our society.
I wonder if Uber and Lyft stock will also increase because this FSD looks like it will soon eliminate the need for a driver. I have long predicted that private cars will be unaffordable by 2035 and people will just order rides via app and have a FSD vehicle add them to an irregular route.
1001
WookieMan
2024 Apr 5, 4:52pm
WookieMan
2024 Apr 5, 4:52pm
socal2 says
I personally don't. Most men don't. They want utility. Tesla doesn't provide that for any model. Have a family of 5 that goes 250 miles with a trailer up to Wisconsin twice a month in the summer. Gas the Armada up and get there on one tank and tool around the entire weekend without filling up until the return trip. With a trailer or camper. I can get in mud and off road situations. No model of Tesla does that without a charging stop.
I have just the weekend. I don't have fucking time for that shit. Cyber Truck is the only one that can tow and you'd be lucky to get 100 miles out of it. This is just leisure. There's also work. I just drove 150 miles today with ZERO chargers on the way. It's still chilly here. Even if topped off, there would be risk of running out of electric on the trip and no where to charge. Nope. Not worth it for a shitty looking sedan. All sedans look shitty to me, so not being biased. The truck looks like a retard got ahold of a CAD program on acid. The specs suck.
I thought you told me that you don't need power or acceleration and driving is no kick for you? You are fine tooling around in a big Japanese Nissan provided you can tow your toys around? If you like fast and powerful cars now, you can't get a faster or more powerful car than a Tesla for the price.
I personally don't. Most men don't. They want utility. Tesla doesn't provide that for any model. Have a family of 5 that goes 250 miles with a trailer up to Wisconsin twice a month in the summer. Gas the Armada up and get there on one tank and tool around the entire weekend without filling up until the return trip. With a trailer or camper. I can get in mud and off road situations. No model of Tesla does that without a charging stop.
I have just the weekend. I don't have fucking time for that shit. Cyber Truck is the only one that can tow and you'd be lucky to get 100 miles out of it. This is just leisure. There's also work. I just drove 150 miles today with ZERO chargers on the way. It's still chilly here. Even if topped off, there would be risk of running out of electric on the trip and no where to charge. Nope. Not worth it for a shitty looking sedan. All sedans look shitty to me, so not being biased. The truck looks like a retard got ahold of a CAD program on acid. The specs suck.
1002
MolotovCocktail
2024 Apr 6, 2:15pm
MolotovCocktail
2024 Apr 6, 2:15pm
https://x.com/sashayanshin/status/1776552388704227421
Why I will never switch from my EV to one of these new gas cars.
1. Range anxiety - I am used to being on 100% every morning. With a gas car, I might not have enough gas to get to work and have to waste time going to recharge it.
2. Big maintenance problem - After 100k-200k miles you have to swap or rebuild the engine. That’s $10-20k on an old car. This is crazy!
3. Risk of fire - Gas cars have ~100x the likelihood of catching fire compared to EVs. You literally have a full tank of explosive liquid right underneath your back seats. No thank you!
4. Underdeveloped charging infrastructure - Every home has a power outlet. Every AirBnb has one too. No matter how remote. With a gas car, you have to go find special charging stations instead of charging while you sleep. Sometimes, the nearest one could be 50 miles away!
5. Environmental impact - Did you know it takes about 10x as much mining and pumping to get the oil needed to fuel a gas car over its lifetime than the materials needed to build an electric battery? Insane!
6. Range issues - Did you know that if you turn on aircon, charge your devices in the car and blast the infotainment system, your gas car range can go down by 20% or more?!
7. Cost - The average gas car costs 20% more than a Tesla. It’s just too expensive for mass adoption.
You have to be a real nutcase fan boy to switch to a gas car! [socal2, Eman]
1003
WookieMan
2024 Apr 6, 2:33pm
WookieMan
2024 Apr 6, 2:33pm
Lol... The thickest sarcasm/troll I've seen in a while. Spot on though. Molasses is what comes to mind.
EV owners enjoy it. It's not cheaper. Not green. I just zipped around town in the cart. Fun. I also sometimes need to tow up to 9k lbs more than 400 meters. Can it tow it, sure, but again will you literally get more than a 1/4 miles out of it? Not happening with a EV. Get a golf cart and drive that to work. In CA you're likely not getting above 30-40mph on a good traffic day. Golf carts can go that fast easy. 1/3 the cost for a nice one. 1/10th for a fixer upper.
EV owners enjoy it. It's not cheaper. Not green. I just zipped around town in the cart. Fun. I also sometimes need to tow up to 9k lbs more than 400 meters. Can it tow it, sure, but again will you literally get more than a 1/4 miles out of it? Not happening with a EV. Get a golf cart and drive that to work. In CA you're likely not getting above 30-40mph on a good traffic day. Golf carts can go that fast easy. 1/3 the cost for a nice one. 1/10th for a fixer upper.
1005
WookieMan
2024 Apr 7, 5:59am
WookieMan
2024 Apr 7, 5:59am
rocketjoe79 says
Yeah but the cost of the car is not factored into that chart. Likely a financed vehicle so that $908 would be eaten by the loan to a comparable sized ICE car in 3 months and then you're paying more monthly. Factor in EV's don't pay MFT yet, the cost will go up through registration or your electric bill in the coming years. Just because they're zippy, doesn't mean they're light cars. A Tesla is causing more damage to roads than a an ICE car paying the taxes for you.
I also usually keep a car for 10 years. Besides gas and oil changes I have all the same maintenance as an EV. Maybe an alternator or starter, but those are relatively cheap repairs Never had to replace an engine. Always get 200k miles out of my cars. With lithium the batteries degrade over time as well. I don't think I'd see 200k miles out of a Tesla without a battery pack swap at the tune of a used car, like $20k to get it back on the road. So that would literally eat all the savings or get I have to get rid of a useless car for pennies.
I get the hype for EV's. The math doesn't add up though. The one factor no one considers is time. I'm not going to sit there and wait for a charge when I can get 400 miles in 3 minutes ICE vehicles. I'd lose $100 in the time waiting to get a full charge at least in productive time. Or the time finding a charger in rural areas with range fear. There're plentiful in CA, but not in my area of IL. Maybe at the big truck stops, but they're not at your local small town gas station.
EV's are for sure more expensive. It's a fun car to drive. That's not a value to me that is worth the higher cost. And the costs are 100% for sure higher for a comparable ICE car that just does 0-60 in 6 seconds instead of 3. Excessive acceleration will get you pulled over in most states. Call me a geezer driver, but it's provably dangerous.
This is what I like.
Yeah but the cost of the car is not factored into that chart. Likely a financed vehicle so that $908 would be eaten by the loan to a comparable sized ICE car in 3 months and then you're paying more monthly. Factor in EV's don't pay MFT yet, the cost will go up through registration or your electric bill in the coming years. Just because they're zippy, doesn't mean they're light cars. A Tesla is causing more damage to roads than a an ICE car paying the taxes for you.
I also usually keep a car for 10 years. Besides gas and oil changes I have all the same maintenance as an EV. Maybe an alternator or starter, but those are relatively cheap repairs Never had to replace an engine. Always get 200k miles out of my cars. With lithium the batteries degrade over time as well. I don't think I'd see 200k miles out of a Tesla without a battery pack swap at the tune of a used car, like $20k to get it back on the road. So that would literally eat all the savings or get I have to get rid of a useless car for pennies.
I get the hype for EV's. The math doesn't add up though. The one factor no one considers is time. I'm not going to sit there and wait for a charge when I can get 400 miles in 3 minutes ICE vehicles. I'd lose $100 in the time waiting to get a full charge at least in productive time. Or the time finding a charger in rural areas with range fear. There're plentiful in CA, but not in my area of IL. Maybe at the big truck stops, but they're not at your local small town gas station.
EV's are for sure more expensive. It's a fun car to drive. That's not a value to me that is worth the higher cost. And the costs are 100% for sure higher for a comparable ICE car that just does 0-60 in 6 seconds instead of 3. Excessive acceleration will get you pulled over in most states. Call me a geezer driver, but it's provably dangerous.
1006
clambo
2024 Apr 7, 6:58am
The only guy I know who owns a Tesla was bragging about how he got a tax credit for it. He's the epitome of a smug owner.
He also complains that FPL doesn't pay him for the energy he produces from his vast solar panel installation on his house roof.
He's not satisfied that he pays no bill each month; he wants them to pay him some money.
He's smug and likes to brag about his "real estate holdings"; he has a house with his wife and they have another one which is rented out.
When I see him at a barbecue he brings a cooler and pounds Budweisers like no tomorrow; I don't know where it goes, he must have a hollow leg.
Off the subject: if you guys are someday seeking an income investment which is not four walls and a roof, check out SPYI.
It's got a high yield.
He also complains that FPL doesn't pay him for the energy he produces from his vast solar panel installation on his house roof.
He's not satisfied that he pays no bill each month; he wants them to pay him some money.
He's smug and likes to brag about his "real estate holdings"; he has a house with his wife and they have another one which is rented out.
When I see him at a barbecue he brings a cooler and pounds Budweisers like no tomorrow; I don't know where it goes, he must have a hollow leg.
Off the subject: if you guys are someday seeking an income investment which is not four walls and a roof, check out SPYI.
It's got a high yield.
1007
HeadSet
2024 Apr 7, 7:40am
HeadSet
2024 Apr 7, 7:40am
clambo says
Off the subject: if you guys are someday seeking an income investment which is not four walls and a roof, check out SPYI.
It's got a high yield.
1008
HeadSet
2024 Apr 7, 7:48am
HeadSet
2024 Apr 7, 7:48am
clambo says
I have talked to several "net zero" rooftop solar homeowners around here and unlike your Tesla bud, none have complained about not being paid by Dominion Power. Net Zero is fair, since although they supply free power to Dominion during the day, they get free power from Dominion at night.
He also complains that FPL doesn't pay him for the energy he produces from his vast solar panel installation on his house roof.
He's not satisfied that he pays no bill each month; he wants them to pay him some money.
I have talked to several "net zero" rooftop solar homeowners around here and unlike your Tesla bud, none have complained about not being paid by Dominion Power. Net Zero is fair, since although they supply free power to Dominion during the day, they get free power from Dominion at night.
1009
MolotovCocktail
2024 Apr 7, 7:50am
MolotovCocktail
2024 Apr 7, 7:50am
HeadSet says
Dominion doesn't get shit. The excess power generated gets burned off as heat at the neighborhood substation because the grid was built to push power in only one direction.
I have talked to several "net zero" rooftop solar homeowners around here and unlike your Tesla bud, none have complained about not being paid by Dominion Power. Net Zero is fair, since although they supply free power to Dominion during the day, they get free power from Dominion at night.
Dominion doesn't get shit. The excess power generated gets burned off as heat at the neighborhood substation because the grid was built to push power in only one direction.
1010
HeadSet
2024 Apr 7, 8:43am
HeadSet
2024 Apr 7, 8:43am
UkraineIsTotallyFucked says
Um, no. Remember, the grid is AC, not "one way." The grid can use several inputs along the way, including company solar fields and home solar panels. A home source just needs to match 240v, 60Hz, and the correct phase to input the grid, which is the whole purpose of a grid-tie inverter. Notice also that a grid connected PV system must have transfer switches to disconnect during a power failure, to protect the lineman from shock from electricity flowing from a solar home into the grid to other houses. Also, systems would not need anti-islanding circuits if power from a one PV system did not feed other homes. True, having lots of home PV with its intermittent nature and varying power quality will stress power company components like voltage regulators and relays, but that is an issue for the RichWicks types to fix while the power company routinely makes use of home PV input.
Dominion doesn't get shit. The excess power generated gets burned off as heat at the neighborhood substation because the grid was built to push power in only one direction.
Um, no. Remember, the grid is AC, not "one way." The grid can use several inputs along the way, including company solar fields and home solar panels. A home source just needs to match 240v, 60Hz, and the correct phase to input the grid, which is the whole purpose of a grid-tie inverter. Notice also that a grid connected PV system must have transfer switches to disconnect during a power failure, to protect the lineman from shock from electricity flowing from a solar home into the grid to other houses. Also, systems would not need anti-islanding circuits if power from a one PV system did not feed other homes. True, having lots of home PV with its intermittent nature and varying power quality will stress power company components like voltage regulators and relays, but that is an issue for the RichWicks types to fix while the power company routinely makes use of home PV input.
1012
HeadSet
2024 Apr 7, 9:54am
HeadSet
2024 Apr 7, 9:54am
UkraineIsTotallyFucked says
Nice snark. I assume that you are implying the step down of a substation makes it "one way" even though you seemed to imply no house could feed PV into the grid as all houses feed directly to the local substation and thus burn off as heat. Around here, a substation feeds hundreds of houses. I will admit that my AC comment was a bit inane, but so is the idea that home PV feeding the grid is useless because the power system is "one way."
HeadSet says
Um, no. Remember, the grid is AC, not "one way."
Nice snark. I assume that you are implying the step down of a substation makes it "one way" even though you seemed to imply no house could feed PV into the grid as all houses feed directly to the local substation and thus burn off as heat. Around here, a substation feeds hundreds of houses. I will admit that my AC comment was a bit inane, but so is the idea that home PV feeding the grid is useless because the power system is "one way."
1013
MolotovCocktail
2024 Apr 7, 10:42am
MolotovCocktail
2024 Apr 7, 10:42am
HeadSet says
Well. After reading that, I will agree that we were both correct and incorrect.
I used substation wrong. Distribution transformer or what is between that and the local substation is probably more accurate.
It is one way. Because the equipment involved was deliberately designed as such in order to get better performance on the direction it was initially designed to do. Or to extend its service lifetime. Or both.
EV charging at night isn't in the design use model either. These distribution transformers were designed to last 40 years ONLY IF their use at night was minimized for several hours so they could cool down. But now with EVs pulling some serious juice down 6-8 hours each night, these things will need to be replaced every 4-6 years. They already cost 10x than they did a couple of years ago...and the waiting list is 2 years and growing.
Oh, and all rate payers will be on the hook for these. It should only be the EV fucks like @Eman and @socal2 who pay for this damage. They caused it.
Still. It is true that A/C flows both ways. But what A/C distribution equipment actually does are two different things.
Nice snark. I assume that you are implying the step down of a substation makes it "one way" even though you seemed to imply no house could feed PV into the grid as all houses feed directly to the local substation and thus burn off as heat. Around here, a substation feeds hundreds of houses. I will admit that my AC comment was a bit inane, but so is the idea that home PV feeding the grid is useless because the power system is "one way."
Well. After reading that, I will agree that we were both correct and incorrect.
I used substation wrong. Distribution transformer or what is between that and the local substation is probably more accurate.
It is one way. Because the equipment involved was deliberately designed as such in order to get better performance on the direction it was initially designed to do. Or to extend its service lifetime. Or both.
EV charging at night isn't in the design use model either. These distribution transformers were designed to last 40 years ONLY IF their use at night was minimized for several hours so they could cool down. But now with EVs pulling some serious juice down 6-8 hours each night, these things will need to be replaced every 4-6 years. They already cost 10x than they did a couple of years ago...and the waiting list is 2 years and growing.
Oh, and all rate payers will be on the hook for these. It should only be the EV fucks like @Eman and @socal2 who pay for this damage. They caused it.
Still. It is true that A/C flows both ways. But what A/C distribution equipment actually does are two different things.
1014
yawaraf
2024 Apr 7, 10:52am
Your premise is interesting. I did not know that the power grid had this limitation. I would be curious to know what components restrict the flow of power.
Conductors, transformers and switches are not "one way". Power and current can flow through these elements in either direction.
Conductors, transformers and switches are not "one way". Power and current can flow through these elements in either direction.
1015
WookieMan
2024 Apr 7, 11:18am
WookieMan
2024 Apr 7, 11:18am
yawaraf says
It's wear and tear. Don't need to know a thing about it really. Night time used to be the least used time of usage. You now have equipment with 24/7 demand. Warm months for air conditioning AND now charging cars at night. Usually after 10pm no air con is needed, people go to sleep and don't need electric. It's the least demand time of the day.
Now certain regions are getting high demand ALL day and night because of EV's. The grid wasn't built for that. And solar and wind aren't gonna cover for the night time needs. CA specifically probably has 5-10x's as much electric usage at night now. On top of the normal daytime usage.
TL:DR - Our electric grids cannot sustain EV's for probably another 10 years without massive issues and adding more power by a shit load.
Your premise is interesting. I did not know that the power grid had this limitation. I would be curious to know what components restrict the flow of power.
Conductors, transformers and switches are not "one way". Power and current can flow through these elements in either direction.
It's wear and tear. Don't need to know a thing about it really. Night time used to be the least used time of usage. You now have equipment with 24/7 demand. Warm months for air conditioning AND now charging cars at night. Usually after 10pm no air con is needed, people go to sleep and don't need electric. It's the least demand time of the day.
Now certain regions are getting high demand ALL day and night because of EV's. The grid wasn't built for that. And solar and wind aren't gonna cover for the night time needs. CA specifically probably has 5-10x's as much electric usage at night now. On top of the normal daytime usage.
TL:DR - Our electric grids cannot sustain EV's for probably another 10 years without massive issues and adding more power by a shit load.
1016
MolotovCocktail
2024 Apr 7, 11:30am
MolotovCocktail
2024 Apr 7, 11:30am
yawaraf says
https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy16osti/63042.pdf
Your premise is interesting. I did not know that the power grid had this limitation. I would be curious to know what components restrict the flow of power.
Conductors, transformers and switches are not "one way". Power and current can flow through these elements in either direction.
https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy16osti/63042.pdf
1017
richwicks
2024 Apr 7, 2:39pm
richwicks
2024 Apr 7, 2:39pm
UkraineIsTotallyFucked says
Yeah, it's a bad design.
I think power systems should move to a cooperative type system.
Really, if you're producing too much power from a solar system, you can just disconnect. All that happens is the panels heat up. Alternatively you can just dump in the form of heat. You could have a large tank of water that just heats up and stores hot water during a surplus.
yawaraf says
Your premise is interesting. I did not know that the power grid had this limitation. I would be curious to know what components restrict the flow of power.
Conductors, transformers and switches are not "one way". Power and current can flow through these elements in either direction.
https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy16osti/63042.pdf
Yeah, it's a bad design.
I think power systems should move to a cooperative type system.
Really, if you're producing too much power from a solar system, you can just disconnect. All that happens is the panels heat up. Alternatively you can just dump in the form of heat. You could have a large tank of water that just heats up and stores hot water during a surplus.
1018
MolotovCocktail
2024 Apr 7, 5:51pm
MolotovCocktail
2024 Apr 7, 5:51pm
monryrichwicks says
Are our roads a bad design because heavy EVs are wearing them down more than expected?
Not having a time machine to see how shit would be used in the future in ways that can't be predicted otherwise is not rational.
richwicks says
Agreed. Micro smart grids too. That costs money and resources.
Yeah, it's a bad design.
Are our roads a bad design because heavy EVs are wearing them down more than expected?
Not having a time machine to see how shit would be used in the future in ways that can't be predicted otherwise is not rational.
richwicks says
I think power systems should move to a cooperative type system.
Agreed. Micro smart grids too. That costs money and resources.
1020
SunnyvaleCA
2024 Apr 7, 6:25pm
As for grid distribution of home solar power, that is changing in a hurry around here with new rules from 2022. Now a homeowner gets only 25¢ on the dollar for home generation credit. The result is that new installations after the cutoff rules change in 2022 are adding a few kilowatt-hours of battery storage so that the home rarely (if ever) passes power back to the grid. I suppose even more options would present themselves if the homeowner additionally owned an electric car.
On the other hand, I can't help but think that every solar home having its own set of batteries is an economical idea. For that matter, I don't think every home having its own solar panels is such a good idea. How about if no homes had panels but the local supermarket put all those panels in one giant installation on the flat roof of the supermarket and over top of the in-great-need-of-shade parking lot. All that capacity in a single convenient place and managed all at once instead of each homeowner dealing with the ins-and-outs of solar.
On the other hand, I can't help but think that every solar home having its own set of batteries is an economical idea. For that matter, I don't think every home having its own solar panels is such a good idea. How about if no homes had panels but the local supermarket put all those panels in one giant installation on the flat roof of the supermarket and over top of the in-great-need-of-shade parking lot. All that capacity in a single convenient place and managed all at once instead of each homeowner dealing with the ins-and-outs of solar.
1021
richwicks
2024 Apr 7, 6:28pm
richwicks
2024 Apr 7, 6:28pm
UkraineIsTotallyFucked says
No, the power system is a bad design. We still have the same basic power system we did in 1950. There's all these problems with residential customers producing power, which is stupid - it shouldn't be a problem at all.
I'm not a power engineer, but I know this can be fixed, and CERTAINLY can be fixed today.
If you have a solar array, and the power goes out, your power goes out - doesn't matter if the sun is shining or not. The reason this happens is because otherwise the lines are electrified. This is easily remedied, isolate the home from the grid, and excess power is simply not consumed by the inverter, and is dissipated in the panels.
This doesn't damage the panels, with the inverter entirely off, ALL the power is dissipated in the panels.
Maybe it's cost that prohibits this? Maybe the cost of the inverter would skyrocket? I don't know.
If we distributed power, we are no longer dependent on central points of control, I think that's why it's not done honestly.
Are our roads a bad design because heavy EVs are wearing them down more than expected?
No, the power system is a bad design. We still have the same basic power system we did in 1950. There's all these problems with residential customers producing power, which is stupid - it shouldn't be a problem at all.
I'm not a power engineer, but I know this can be fixed, and CERTAINLY can be fixed today.
If you have a solar array, and the power goes out, your power goes out - doesn't matter if the sun is shining or not. The reason this happens is because otherwise the lines are electrified. This is easily remedied, isolate the home from the grid, and excess power is simply not consumed by the inverter, and is dissipated in the panels.
This doesn't damage the panels, with the inverter entirely off, ALL the power is dissipated in the panels.
Maybe it's cost that prohibits this? Maybe the cost of the inverter would skyrocket? I don't know.
If we distributed power, we are no longer dependent on central points of control, I think that's why it's not done honestly.
1022
HeadSet
2024 Apr 7, 7:05pm
HeadSet
2024 Apr 7, 7:05pm
richwicks says
Around here, that is a non-issue remedied by using a transfer switch. This old time device disconnects you from the grid when it senses a power line failure, just like when using a natural gas generator for backup power. Your house is still powered by your solar even after the transfer switch disconnects you from the grid.
If you have a solar array, and the power goes out, your power goes out - doesn't matter if the sun is shining or not. The reason this happens is because otherwise the lines are electrified. This is easily remedied, isolate the home from the grid, and excess power is simply not consumed by the inverter, and is dissipated in the panels.
Around here, that is a non-issue remedied by using a transfer switch. This old time device disconnects you from the grid when it senses a power line failure, just like when using a natural gas generator for backup power. Your house is still powered by your solar even after the transfer switch disconnects you from the grid.
1023
ForcedTQ
2024 Apr 7, 9:08pm
HeadSet says
In order for it to disconnect you from the grid you need an Automatic Transfer Switch. A manual transfer switch requires one to monitor the grid and operate it when the power goes out. Also, most inverters that people have on their houses don’t have “islanding” capabilities, the ability to generate the base sine wave of 60hz. So in those instances they will need another inverter that can (possibly hooked up to batteries) or a generator to make the sine wave or “utility power” in this case.
richwicks says
If you have a solar array, and the power goes out, your power goes out - doesn't matter if the sun is shining or not. The reason this happens is because otherwise the lines are electrified. This is easily remedied, isolate the home from the grid, and excess power is simply not consumed by the inverter, and is dissipated in the panels.
Around here, that is a non-issue remedied by using a transfer switch. This old time device disconnects you from the grid when it senses a power line failure, just like when using a natural gas generator for backup power. Your house is still powered by your solar even after the transfer switch disconnects you from the grid.
In order for it to disconnect you from the grid you need an Automatic Transfer Switch. A manual transfer switch requires one to monitor the grid and operate it when the power goes out. Also, most inverters that people have on their houses don’t have “islanding” capabilities, the ability to generate the base sine wave of 60hz. So in those instances they will need another inverter that can (possibly hooked up to batteries) or a generator to make the sine wave or “utility power” in this case.
1024
HeadSet
2024 Apr 8, 7:59am
HeadSet
2024 Apr 8, 7:59am
ForcedTQ says
That is what "disconnects you from the grid when it senses a power line failure" means. I have examined several solar installs and houses with backup natural gas generators, and I have never seen a transfer switch that was not automatic
.
ForcedTQ says
So? You do not need inverter "islanding" if you have a transfer switch. Also, "islanding" is not "the ability to generate the base sine wave of 60hz." Any grid connected inverter must match frequency, phase, and voltage to commercial power. Again, I have seen several "net zero" solar installs, and every one of them had an inverter that put out clean commercial grade power. Even if you are totally off grid with solar and only need house level electricity, you need an inverter that can put out 60Hz, 120v (for home), 3 phase if you are running electronics like computers or modern appliances. Notice that even portable generators from Harbor Freight and Honda have an "inverter style" just to protect whatever sensitive electronics you plug in at the camp site or tailgate party. But if one is totally of grid, a better idea IMO is to stick with DC and use DC appliances that are made for motor homes.
In order for it to disconnect you from the grid you need an Automatic Transfer Switch.
That is what "disconnects you from the grid when it senses a power line failure" means. I have examined several solar installs and houses with backup natural gas generators, and I have never seen a transfer switch that was not automatic
.
ForcedTQ says
Also, most inverters that people have on their houses don’t have “islanding” capabilities
So? You do not need inverter "islanding" if you have a transfer switch. Also, "islanding" is not "the ability to generate the base sine wave of 60hz." Any grid connected inverter must match frequency, phase, and voltage to commercial power. Again, I have seen several "net zero" solar installs, and every one of them had an inverter that put out clean commercial grade power. Even if you are totally off grid with solar and only need house level electricity, you need an inverter that can put out 60Hz, 120v (for home), 3 phase if you are running electronics like computers or modern appliances. Notice that even portable generators from Harbor Freight and Honda have an "inverter style" just to protect whatever sensitive electronics you plug in at the camp site or tailgate party. But if one is totally of grid, a better idea IMO is to stick with DC and use DC appliances that are made for motor homes.
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