patrick.net

WaltertheoFlanders says

Who also at the time of the call happened to be the front-runner in polls of who could beat tRump in 2020. What was the purpose of his investigation? To get dirt on Biden? Do you think it's all right for the pResident to use his office (withholding aid) to get dirt on a political rival?

You understand this is bigger than Biden, right? The sitting President was investigated through a court that 90% of Americans knew nothing about while he was ACTUALLY running for President. I don't like Trump. But logic still has to exist. Biden isn't actually running for President yet. If Trump wants to call John Doe down the street a criminal with what appears to be criminal activity, it's 100% legal. Biden is still John Doe and not on the ballot for President. Factor in he was the Vice President when alleged misconduct occurred, and well that's kind of a problem.

You've got to understand the hypocrisy of this all. Trump is playing the same game, he's just openly directing it like it's theater. None of which is illegal. People don't like bullies, yet this is exactly WHY they get bullied. It's been 3 years and almost 4 since Trump started this and you all still don't get it. He's been the most scrutinized President in the history of the country. What do you have.... nothing. What makes you think this time is any different?

Hold him accountable, but outside of the whiny bull shit from the left, I think everyone is doing just fine except for feelings.... I'm still waiting for an answer to the multiple times I've asked naysayers here how their life is worse with Trump in office outside of hurt feelings. STILL no answers.

WookieMan says

but one or two doesn't mean many.

WaltertheoFlanders says

Lol, I got at least 1 Trump supporter friend and I'm in the bayarea.

lol.

WaltertheoFlanders says

Why would one lie about this, he probably doesn't talk politics too much with them.

Trump supporters don't talk politics regarding Trump. They will immediately be lynched. This is fact. One of the most inaccurate polling periods in the history of the world involved Trump getting elected. Almost NOBODY that supports Trump actively speaks about it.

Sure there are few rouge, what I'd actually argue are right wing nutbags, but most people don't actively/verbally support Trump. It's on places like here that they get to vent their frustration with what was the status quo. Until the Democrats try to understand that, they're likely screwed for a while on the Presidential front. Days of yore with nice guy Obama are done.

OccasionalCortex says

No. That's not 'being fair'. That's left wing BS deflection. Typical.

Except that I think you're all fucked. But be honest, show me how Trump has been any different than Obama, fundamentally different. Defense spending? Troops in Middle East? Accountability for evil banks? Illegals?

WookieMan says

Trump supporters don't talk politics regarding Trump. They will immediately be lynched. This is fact. One of the most inaccurate polling periods in the history of the world involved Trump getting elected. Almost NOBODY that supports Trump actively speaks about it.

That describes me pretty well. Outside of my wife and immediate family, nobody knows I’m a Trump supporter. And I won’t be sharing that. My wife has also requested that I refrain from making any social media posts that are political. She works at a college with probably 90% Lefties, all looking for the next witch to burn. So I am an undercover Trump supporter.
There are little to no protections for political speech, and the SJWs have been exploiting that fact. Then they wonder why their polls no longer work correctly.

NuttBoxer says

Except that I think you're all fucked. But be honest, show me how Trump has been any different than Obama, fundamentally different. Defense spending? Troops in Middle East? Accountability for evil banks? Illegals?

Despite being stymied every step of the way by judges from Hawaii and California, Trump has already done more to change the asylum rules and enhance border enforcement than any president in my lifetime.

Trump is also way different than his predecessors when it comes to tariffs and trade.

Trump is also very different than his predecessors in not getting us more involved in new wars.

marcus says

Even if Trump didn't win the popular vote, the 2016 election was a mandate that we have a self involved lunatic con artist as our President.

lololol......cankles should have won the popular vote by at least 25% according to the polls and the fact that she was the "most qualified"...not by 2 or 3%...if she would have, you would have your president in office...

socal2 says

Despite being stymied every step of the way by judges from Hawaii and California, Trump has already done more to change the asylum rules and enhance border enforcement than any president in my lifetime.

So record number of illegals crossing border? And don't forget most of those border detention pics are from Obama era.

socal2 says

Trump is also way different than his predecessors when it comes to tariffs and trade.

Like increasing sanctions against Iran?

socal2 says

Trump is also very different than his predecessors in not getting us more involved in new wars.

Again Iran, Yemen, Afganistan, Iraq, and us(Wars on Us 1 and 2),

Drain that swamp!!

Tim Aurora says

I have many friends who voted Trump. That said, they are lifelong Republicans. But some of them are souring on him after constant barrage of antics by this President.

I don't know a single Trump voter who is souring on him right now.

I do know many Conservatives like me who didn't vote for Trump in 2016, who are pleasantly surprised by all of his accomplishments and can't wait to vote for him in 2020.

Not only are they pleased with Trump's policies (not his Twitter), they have become radicalized seeing the crazies on the Democrat side and dishonest hack media and are ready to crawl over broken glass to vote for Trump in 2020.

WaltertheoFlanders says

WookieMan says

how their life is worse with Trump in office outside of hurt feelings. STILL no answers.

The quality of of the air I breathe will be worse from tRump taking away Californias exemption from CAFE standards I'm sure I could come up with many more but point is you can no longer claim someone hasn't answered you.

The air you breath is cleaner because of capitalism. Not Trump, Obama, Clinton or Bush. If there is demand for clean air it will happen (and is happening - I remember the 90's and how shitty Chicago's air was). So no, question not answered. Trump is not personally making the air any dirtier as it's currently getting cleaner as we speak.

If that's the first point of contention, then I'd say that Trump has not made your life worse. Maybe just feelings. What were the other laundry list of things that have made your life worse? This should be easy if it's true.

WookieMan says

Trump supporters don't talk politics regarding Trump. They will immediately be lynched. This is fact. One of the most inaccurate polling periods in the history of the world involved Trump getting elected. Almost NOBODY that supports Trump actively speaks about it.

Talking about supporting Trump would be a really fucking bad idea at my job. For the exact reasons described above:

Basic + Media Programming = OrangeManRacistBad therefore CornPop the OG = Evil Racist.

WaltertheoFlanders says

The investigation of the investigators will turn out to be the biggest waste of money. They got nothing, if they did we would have heard about it.

So you haven't "heard" that several FBI people have been fired over their roles in the Mueller witch hunt? Peter Strozk, Lisa Page, McCabe......

You are really unaware of how dodgy the FISA warrants were relying on the Dossier?

You are really unaware of how unprecedented it is to have the Obama Administration, Clinton Campaign all colluding with the FBI, DOJ, CIA, Ukraine, Russia and the UK to overturn the results of the 2016 election?

WaltertheoFlanders says

Yes logic must exist, if Biden had done something wrong it shouldn't be a political rival doing the investigation. Otherwise looks like one is trying to get dirt.

How does one investigate something like this? Gather fake intelligence, bring it to a seemingly secret (at that time) court and then leak information to the American public?

If the DOJ starts investigating Biden and his kid, y'all are still going to think Trump was behind it. Trump is being legal and he's just doing it out in the open unlike Obama did trying to help Hillary get elected.

The left needs to wake up and maybe start understanding that something is afoul here and it's not what you think it is. I don't like him, but sorry it took an obnoxious President to show everyone the truth. That's what it takes I guess. Your beloved Democratic party is not what you think it is.

WookieMan says

the air you breath is cleaner because of capitalism

Well regulated capitalism. Unregulated capitalism, in this country, is that which polluted the air, water, soil and food. Trump has rolled back as many of those regulations as he can and yes this in some way does affect everyone. But the premise of the question how has the Trump presidency affected in a negative way your life, assumes that the Pat net people are representative of America as a whole. On its face that is laughable given that there are no women posters that I am aware of. As to the poor, minorities, gays, millennials and so forth those that by large margins oppose the retrograde policies he has or has tried to put in place, we don't know but I would guess it is a tiny %. But yeah, as a white, well to do man the direct economic affects have been, so far, OK not stellar, but OK. But some of us look past the present and see the ultimate results of his policies as being potentially horrific. The environmental destruction he has attempted to cause alone is disqualifying for me. Don't give a shit about that then the increase in the debt and deficits of his economic policies should be of concern to everyone, I am still waiting for that 4% growth.

rdm says

minorities,

Am I a minority if I have 1% Caribbean Native genetic ancestry and about 1% North Asian ancestry, and if not, what % of that ancestries I should have to qualify?
Or should I be subjected to SKULL! MEASUREMENTS! by the PROGRESSIVES! to figure out if I am a minority or not?

rdm says

The environmental destruction he has attempted to cause alone is disqualifying for me.

I'd argue that Environmental Leftists have done more harm in terms of Climate Change than Republicans by fighting nuclear energy for the last 50 years.

Environmental Leftists are doing their best to ensure the US is hopelessly dependent on OPEC and Russia for their dirty oil.

Meanwhile, thanks to the miracle of fracking of cleaner natural gas - the US is practically energy independent and are cutting our carbon emissions faster than any OECD country on the planet.

It depends on what the meaning of is is.

WaltertheoFlanders says

won't have any return like Mueller did

You are probably right.

WaltertheoFlanders says

Also not true, they tried to classify at highest level. Took a whistle blower to get the information. That's not doing it out in the open. This call was on July 25 not September 25, did you not know this.

Make up what ever bullshit you want, you aren't convincing me.

It's not bullshit. Transcripts were released from the call. That didn't have to be done. All we know of is an anonymous "whistleblower" has made claims that haven't been substantiated. And the fact remains that Trump has every right to undo past wrongs from previous administrations, including potential illegal activity. That's not illegal. This isn't a hard concept.

rdm says

Unregulated capitalism, in this country, is that which polluted the air, water, soil and food. Trump has rolled back as many of those regulations as he can and yes this in some way does affect everyone.

Many? List 'em. Anything he's rolled back has maybe, "maybe" hurt one out of a thousand people. More was to be gained versus one person getting butt hurt over a pipeline or the like. One persons view of harm is different than the next persons. 10 people being out of work versus the perceived unlikelihood of a pipeline leak hurting that 1 person isn't logical.

Humans are dirty. People need to get over that. Otherwise buy a tent that used a bunch of carbon emission through the manufacturing process and shipment process and go live in the woods. Eat cold food because that fire will pollute as well. And I don't drive an F-150, so don't go there chief. I want a clean earth, but American's are NOT the problem in the grand scheme of things. If you want to castrate yourself at the behest of the Chinese then go ahead, that ain't me.

socal2 says

I'd argue that Environmental Leftists have done more harm in terms of Climate Change

So you believe that climate change exists and it is mostly from human activities?

rdm says

So you believe that climate change exists and it is mostly from human activities?

The climate is always changing. We seem to be in midst of a cooling trend, mostly driven by the sun.

rdm says

socal2 says

I'd argue that Environmental Leftists have done more harm in terms of Climate Change

So you believe that climate change exists and it is mostly from human activities?

Can anyone prove that we haven't orbited say even 10 or even 100 miles closer to the sun? That's a fractional rounding error by five plus decimal points for the distances we're talking. We have no idea what that does to climate if it were or has happened. We have too many people and we're going to increase gross pollution/carbon for the foreseeable future. You can't stop that. There's one regulation and one alternative that can fix this if you're convicted it's man made.

Stop making babies. Or we kill each other. That's it. We cannot reduce per capita carbon output faster than we're creating new humans. In the meantime I'll enjoy my life and maybe 100 generations removed my kids offspring will die of heat exhaustion. Oh well.

WookieMan says

Many? List 'em. Anything he's rolled back has maybe, "maybe" hurt one out of a thousand people.

Very scientific analysis but stll that is 350,000 people

"85 Environmental Rules Being
Rolled Back Under Trump
By NADJA POPOVICH, LIVIA ALBECK-RIPKA and KENDRA PIERRE-LOUIS UPDATED Sept. 12, 2019

President Trump has made eliminating federal regulations a priority. His administration, with help from Republicans in Congress, has often targeted environmental rules it sees as burdensome to the fossil fuel industry and other big businesses.

A New York Times analysis, based on research from Harvard Law School, Columbia Law School and other sources, counts more than 80 environmental rules and regulations on the way out under Mr. Trump.

Our list represents two types of policy changes: rules that were officially reversed and rollbacks still in progress. The Trump administration has released an aggressive schedule to try to finalize many of these rollbacks this year.


The Trump administration has often used a “one-two punch” when rolling back environmental rules, said Caitlin McCoy, a fellow in the Environmental and Energy Law Program at Harvard Law School who tracks regulatory rollbacks. “First a delay rule to buy some time, and then a final substantive rule.”

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/climate/trump-environment-rollbacks.html

There is chart with the article, it didn't paste well

rdm says

socal2 says

I'd argue that Environmental Leftists have done more harm in terms of Climate Change

So you believe that climate change exists and it is mostly from human activities?

I think Climate has always changed and that humans have some impact with the burning of fossil fuels. I don't believe the disease is worse than the medicine the Climate extremists are advocating.

Just pointing out that the Democrats are their own worst enemies (if they truly believe in the worst apocalyptic predictions) by being against the one technology (nuclear) that can feasibly get us off carbon in the time frame they are advocating.

rdm says

A New York Times analysis, based on research from Harvard Law School, Columbia Law School and other sources, counts more than 80 environmental rules and regulations on the way out under Mr. Trump.

I appreciate a link like you've posted. Skimmed through it, I'm still not convinced that many people are being hurt by the rollbacks though. You can't make extreme claims in my book without backing it with evidence:

All told, the Trump administration’s environmental rollbacks could significantly increase greenhouse gas emissions and lead to thousands of extra deaths from poor air quality every year, according to a recent report prepared by New York University Law School's State Energy and Environmental Impact Center.

When the intro statement to the cited report lists the Trump administration by name, it's done. All credibility is lost in that report. There's a way to write an academic paper and that's not it. Clear bias by the 2nd graph.

rdm says

Very scientific analysis but stll that is 350,000 people

Good. If you want a cleaner earth 350,000 people is just the tip of the iceberg of people that need to die. You can't claim to be environmentally friendly and ignore the 800,000lbs gorilla in the room. People. Regulation won't fix the problems in China and other parts of the world. Wait and see what happens when African countries get their heads out of their corrupt asses... I feel like I'm talking to wall here sometimes.

Tim Aurora says

socal2 says

I don't know a single Trump voter who is souring on him right now.

You are in a bubble/echo chamber

Lol. Everyone is. Don't hitch your cart to any horse. Just pull a Fred Flintstone and drive that mother fucker with your own feet.

Tim Aurora says

They were fired because Trump did not like them and Mueller did not recommend any action against them ( as opposed to many Trump associates were imprisoned)

McCabe wasn't fired by Trump. He stepped down for lying and is still facing charges from the DOJ.

There is no defending the unprofessional ism and partisanship of Strozk and his mistress Lisa Page who were leading the investigation.

Manafort was arrested for prior tax evasion and process crimes. But he was originally targeted for his lobbying for Ukraine. What do you suppose Hunter Biden was doing for Ukraine?

There is no such thing as a quid pro quo when it comes to the President working on foreign policy. Even if the story did play out like the bogus whistle blower framed it.

That past two president was caught on camera doing just the same thing if not worse, on camera multiple times.

"Well tell them to quit doing that shit and we'll quit bombing them!"
"Give me until after the election I'll have more leadway then."

Tenpoundbass says

There is no such thing as a quid pro quo when it comes to the President working on foreign policy

This. It comes with the territory with the highest office on the planet. I don't like it all the time, but that position needs flexibility to get things done. Same with any elected person in the executive role.

www.youtube.com/embed/lqDl6vRX4-E

Quid Pro Poppycock.

Trump will handily beat Warren. Nobody wants to elect a crazed out hypocrite who rode on faux pocahontas creds and now wants to tax income above 250k with 15%. Dems are mentally ill. Somebody making 250K on the left or right coast in the US is STILL A WORKER, by all definitions. Don't abandon your tax-paying base. Don't be Liz.

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

BUT HUNTER GOT A JOB!

Yes he did, and the coke-head and his dad should rightfully be investigated.

Rudy is gonna fuck them up. You ain't seen nothing yet, he cleaned up NYC so this is a cakewalk for him.

семьдесят девять

WaltertheoFlanders says

How many Russian trolls are on this site?

No. Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter all happen naturally, regardless of human invervention...

rdm says

So you believe that climate change exists and it is mostly from human activities?

Tim Aurora says

socal2 says

I don't know a single Trump voter who is souring on him right now.

You are in a bubble/echo chamber

Are you predicting his imminent impeachment and removal from office? Or just fantasizing? It would be nice to have it documented so we can all get a good laugh later on.

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

BUT HUNTER GOT A JOB!

He always had one but this was a step up from working the glory hole for grams of blow.

mell says

Trump will handily beat Warren. Nobody wants to elect a crazed out hypocrite who rode on faux pocahontas creds

We may not want to elect the squaw but we may be tricked into it by the Ukrainians through their social media propaganda...We must stay vigilant.

TDS symptoms on the left have worsened, they'll need many sessions, some might be beyond hope.

socal2 says

McCabe wasn't fired by Trump

Well I suppose technically true, he was fired by Sessions a few hours before he retired to fuck him out of his full pension. Nice, I m sure Trump had nothing to do with it.