patrick.net

I printed out the entire thread, and the doc would like to see you on the Behavioral Med unit this afternoon. Please leave sharp objects at home, and plan on staying awhile.

Zlxr says

I would have been more upset if she had added an “s” to the piece. Yes, I heard about the Utah news. Unfortunately it happens all too often over here (we have more people). And if you read enough stories like this - one can see why some people believe in things like “Birth Control” and “Abortion”. At the very least there should be a class on parenthood reality training before people think about having kids.

We have much fewer crimes here - we have less people. And we're all busy behind the safety of our doors, molesting our children, abusing prescription medications and practicing who knows what else. There's now a bill being proposed, Ethan's Law, that denies custody to a parent who abandons the child. I doubt that they can do this - too many what if's. But the boy's father fought to keep him from going to Utah with his mom, the boy didn't want to go, and the law was on the side of the mom. What a horrible piece of shit she is. Insofar as my "rest in piece," I guess this proves that I'm not perfect. Although I never claimed to be, it gave rayray a hard-on. But a teeny one, I'm sure. Getting tired of his anti-ellie attacks, I wish he'd say something worthwhile for once.

As long as it stays above $ 1045 it's all good..

Forget spell check. Give piece a chance.

The death penalty is not going to stop people from doing this stuff ... it will keep them from doing it twice. The only answer is public hanging, but only after a nude walk through town. Those two things .. the sight of the soon to die being marched along nude and embarassed and scared, and then the sight of them having their necks stretched and their eyes popping out, blue tounge, the works, while hanging there nude ... and the next few days that the birds and dogs chew on them ... that will be a most glorious message for the next deviant to ponder before touching a kid. On the other hand, why is abortion ok 4 years earlier? Same mom, same kid, so whats the dif? I know it sucks to share that in this instant, but that should help prove my point. It is not a choice, it is a life.

Z/Bap/Mikey: I have no problem discussing this issue with you, or most anyone, on this forum. I welcome your comments. Even when I disagree with your point of view, I've learned some stuff and ignored other stuff. I've laughed at many comments, and Nomo has consistently caused me to sneeze pop out of my nose. But I have a problem being attacked by rayray constantly, especially in This thread. He lacks the ability to see anything beyond his anger of all things Obama. He hates liberals and has a skewed view of what a liberal is and believes in. He has personally attacked me (and a few others) over & over, obviously believing that life is a competition and that his snotty-assed comments allow him to "win." He can't see that this thread is about a young boy who was killed in a horrible way, a system that broke down, and a reason that we should all mourn him and the hundreds or thousands of other children like him who are victims of the system. I'm sure that all he sees is that somehow a liberal president, who he loathes, is responsible in some way for this occurance. Either that or he doesn't see the problem because he lacks a soul. Perhaps he believes that it's more important to point out a spelling error, one of the few that I've made, because it makes him feel superior. But then, I wonder, why does rayray refuse to discuss this specific issue? Why does he skate around the issue of Glen Beck and the girls he may or may not have raped & killed? Why has he suspiciously remained silent on the issue (mentioned in another thread) of The Original Bankster possibly being a child molester who left California because of the stringent laws? Is it possible that he, himself, is guilty of being a child molester? Is he a liberal who is afraid to come out of the closet - so he attacks anonymous people on the interweb to detract from his own shortcomings? Is this horrible secret that he harbors keeping him from acting in such a manner that people would want to befriend him? I wonder what he is hiding from? I hope that you all can help me explore these issues with rayray on each and every post that he makes, because the truth must come out. Attacking me to detract from these very serious charges only make me increasingly suspicious about what he has to hide.

It's the constant attacks that bother me. I said that people can be afraid of clowns, he says I think I'm better than Sarah Palin. He obviously doesn't believe that he's personally attacking, yet doesn't understand that people can disagree with him and it's not a personal attack. His credibility is shot, at least with me. His constant need to win each conversation (such as the donation to the govt thread) is amusing, but any credibility he had is gone.

I did not feel this topic should have carried the friction from the political stuff either. Seemed a bit cold hearted. But, having felt the spot light that being conservative (in post) brings, I can see where a short fuse comes to be had. Being out-numbered is not fun, and he takes a BUNCH of abuse on the personal level. But, in here, about this, I think he could have just skipped the input, or stayed on-topic.

I poke a little fun at ellie "I never, ever insult anyone" mae and this is how she responds: elliemae says

But then, I wonder, why does rayray refuse to discuss this specific issue? Why does he skate around the issue of Glen Beck and the girls he may or may not have raped & killed?

elliemae says

Is it possible that he, himself, is guilty of being a child molester?

Yep folks. I have a little fun with ellie over her use of the word "piece" instead of "peace" and she responds by calling me a child molestor! LOL !!!

Z: If I disagree with you, I certainly don't attack you on a personal level. I don't recall the conversation about drugs, but many people believe that they're the worst thing ever. Many people don't. I don't believe that pot is a "gateway drug," even though that's the message we've been fed for many years. I personally believe that pot is a better alternative than alcohol, but it's illegal. I find it ironic that one of my best friends is a conservative drug & alcohol counselor who is deeply religious, has never drank in her lifetime, and votes republican regardless of the issues. But I love her, I love her children and consider them to all be family, and we get along just fine. But I don't belittle you or your beliefs - if it appears that way, I'm sorry. I was pissed yesterday over another thread where someone compared Palin to a clown, I said some people are terrified of clowns, and rayray now insists that I believe myself to be better than she is. I don't believe that I"m better than anyone, but I don't respect Sarah Palin on any level. This is just an example - rayray attacks me personally all of the time. I'm not the only person who takes offense at his posts. He has displayed a marked inability to stay on topic, with his only message being "libs bad/conservos good." Every thread is an opportunity for him to spout this message, which he asserts is factual when it's opinion. I don't agree with Bap on many levels. I do on others. But to my recollection he hasn't constantly hammered me with personal attacks. I fuck with rayray & many of the posters here don't take him seriously, because he's a single issue angry guy. If he were to contribute to any conversation without personally attacking - and if he possessed the ability to realize that his commentary is full of personal attacks - someone might appreciate his input. He obviously can't discern between his personal attacks and other people's comments. It doesn't make him appear anything other than mean.

By the way - no charges have been filed as of yet for this young boy. This is still the top story in Utah, and the news shall beat it to death. No pun intended.

It’s abundantly obvious. Little ellie “I never, ever insult anyone” mae is totally obsessed with all things “rayray.” I’m feeling so special. LOL

elliemae says

Oh, yea, that’s right - because they’re still waiting to hear Glen Beck’s explanation & alibi for the raping & killing of young girls…

Very interesting comment from a leftist. I don't know anything about Beck or these so called allegations from the left, but I find it intriguing that the left keeps making these charges and the authorities don't prosecute. I would have to believe if there was any substance to this trash, a grand jury would be formed to investigate them. This is pure Saul Alinksy: “If you can’t beat your opponent with ideas, attack his character.” Just another example of the absurdities and desperation of the left.

Yes, I took a rayray this morning.

Nomo ... I noticed you take issue with my so called obsession with the "left," but have no problem with ellie "I never, ever insult anyone" mae calling me a "child molester." Absolutely incredible. As far as me spending "every waking moment" thinking about the left, you couldn't be more wrong if you tried. There isn't much to think about when it comes to the left. Air America proved that. Precisely why, in the free marketplace of ideas, they went off the air. Leftist positions are not only incredibly stupid and childish, they are paralyzingly boring. Why else would Air America file for bankruptcy?

Leftists love gutter talk. What else would you expect from people that live in the gutter? Vulgarity is always a sure sign of a lack of education, intelligence and upbringing, etc. It also reveals a level of vile that lies within that person.

Nomograph says

Ultimately, you are the one is suffering. This obsession, which I suspect is largely fueled by AM talk radio, will bring you nothing but a bitter, unhappy life. If you turn off the AM talk radio, your life will immediately improve. That I can promise you, Ray.

Another false assumption. I have a funny feeling the left would be going absolutely nutso if I accused someone on the left in here of being a "child molester." What could be worse than labeling someone with that?

RayAmerica says

Nomo … I noticed you take issue with my so called obsession with the “left,” but have no problem with ellie “I never, ever insult anyone” mae calling me a “child molester.”

I'm shocked, rayray! I haven't called you a child molester. I do find it suspect that you haven't yet refuted these very serious allegations and refuse to provide proof of where you were during the times that these children may, or may not, have been molested and the young girls may, or may not, have been raped & killed. It's cute - the way it looks when you write my name, and how you keep adding another loving touch to it. I like how you're so obsessed with me - have you printed out my pic & pasted it all over your bedroom walls yet?

Damn it, Nomo! It was coffee this time!

RayAmerica says

What else would you expect from people that live in the gutter?

I don't know, let's ask your neighbors what they expect from you. Thanks for playing!

thanks, I needed that.

RayAmerica says

Obama... President Obama... Democratic candidates... Obama... Obama... Obama... Obama... TV ads... Obama’s candidate... meds... obvious needs... whack... leftist... from the left... the left... trash... investigate them... opponent... absurdities... desperation... the left... my... obsession with the “left,” ... “child molester.”... thinking about the left... the left... Leftist positions... incredibly stupid and childish... paralyzingly boring... bankruptcy... suffering... obsession... AM talk radio... bitter, unhappy... false assumption... funny feeling... the left... absolutely nutso... “child molester.”

Speed reading is fun. It seems that by doing this with Rayray's posts we can see that Rayray is obsessed with "Owebama," "the left," and "child molesters." Freud would have a field day with this one. ROFLMAO!

ray - who constantly attacks ellie - says Obama… President Obama… Democratic candidates… Obama… Obama… Obama… Obama… TV ads… Obama’s candidate… meds… obvious needs… whack… leftist… from the left… the left… trash… investigate them… opponent… absurdities… desperation… the left… my… obsession with the “left,” … “child molester.”… thinking about the left… the left… Leftist positions… incredibly stupid and childish… paralyzingly boring… bankruptcy… suffering… obsession… AM talk radio… bitter, unhappy… false assumption… funny feeling… the left… absolutely nutso… “child molester.”

What exactly is he afreud of?

So, to recap... Questions as to rayray's status as a child molester: 1 Answers from the rayray: 0 What have you got to hide, rayray? I'm curious as to why you haven't done so. Or did Obama make you do it?

The fact that Obama would campaign for Jon Corzine shows he has no morals. Corzine destroyed the state of NJ.

It's a conspiracy by the liberals to detract from the birther issue. :)

Just getting the jump on the Bobsey triplets.

elliemae says

Questions as to rayray’s status as a child molester: 1 Answers from the rayray: 0 What have you got to hide, rayray? I’m curious as to why you haven’t done so. Or did Obama make you do it?

You really are a sick, bitter, person that is full of hate. Believe it or not, I actually feel sorry for you.

Nomograph says

theoakman says

Corzine destroyed the state of NJ.

NJ was still there last time I checked, complete and whole.

By your logic, you could argue there has never been a bad governor in the entire US. Corzine is a criminal. He destroyed the state's balance sheet and he used the NJ state pension fund to bail out his buddies on Wall St.

RayAmerica says

elliemae says

Questions as to rayray’s status as a child molester: 1 Answers from the rayray: 0 What have you got to hide, rayray? I’m curious as to why you haven’t done so. Or did Obama make you do it?

You really are a beautiful woman who I admire with all my heart & soul. Believe it or not, I actually keep your dog's pic by my bedside.

Score's still the same, rayray. What are you hiding? Meter's still running. Nomograph says

The rubber-glue thing, and infinity plus one.

...and that would be infinity plus one plus infinity. :)

I miss the happy face emoticons.

Rasmussen’s latest poll (May 25, ‘10) for Obama: Strongly approve: 24% Stongly disapprove: 44% Somewhat approve: 42% Disapprove: 56%

RayAmerica says

Rasmussen’s latest poll (May 25, ‘10) for Obama: Strongly approve: 24% Stongly disapprove: 44% Somewhat approve: 42% Disapprove: 56%

Political approval ratings are largely a function of the economy. Most people are just pissed at the general state of their lives right now. Even if the Republicans win, if the economy doesn't turn around chances are high that they would soon be on the chopping block. In fact, if 1)republicans gain control of either the house or the senate and 2)the economy doesn't turn around: Obama's chance at a second term would greatly increase. Just throwing this out there: what Republican could stand up to Obama in the next election? Jindal? Doubt it. Romney? Probably not. Palin? God help us all, if she is the frontrunner.

CBO .... Therein lies the problem; the GOP is garbage too. IMO, neither party is worth a pound of salt. What makes me sick is that every time there is an election, the winning side assumes their people will make all the right moves and changes. What actually happens is on all the major issues, both parties continue the same policies. The two parties have different labels, but end up governing pretty much the same. For example: Obama's policies really aren't much different than Bush's re: Afghanistan & Iraq. Both kept the same policies re: border security & amnesty. Bush emphatically stated prior to leaving office he strongly favored national healthcare (got very little media attention). Both are fiscally irresponsible, etc., etc. That's why I say "Bush was a very bad President, and Obama is Bush on steroids," which makes me friends everywhere I go.

It's all in how you feel about your currency. If you believe the dollar is strong and will stay strong, then gold is a bubble market, if you believe the dollar is way over leveraged and is due for some big time inflation, then gold is under valued. Personally I believe the dollar is way over leveraged it's only a question of how long the government can prop up the dollar. this article link
http://www.caseyresearch.com/articles/116//
suggests that the mysteries Caribbean investors are buying huge amounts of treasuries are just a front for the U.S. Government trying to prop up the dollar. Logically you have to admit that sooner or later the United States is going to run out of buyers for it's U.S. Treasuries, and it will be forced to live within it's means. So one of two things will happen, the US will continue to print money to keep up there reckless deficit spending, which would in turn could big time inflation. With 800 billion dollars in circulation, if the budget shortfall is say 200 billion, and the government just prints that to cover it's budget, you could be looking at a 25% inflation rate per year. The other option is massive cuts in government spending, but don't believe that the government has the will power to do what needs to be done, and even it it did, they would be replaced by people that don't in the next election.

So my long term prediction for buying gold is VERY STRONG.

Inflation only needs to go to probably 8% a year for 3-4 years to put things back in line.

The USD might not be strong, but compared to other currencies, it is looking pretty good, unfortunately...

pkennedy says

Inflation only needs to go to probably 8% a year for 3-4 years to put things back in line.
The USD might not be strong, but compared to other currencies, it is looking pretty good, unfortunately…

You are assuming no new debt gets run up in the process. The government has consistently used debt issuance in conjunction with inflation to expand the debt load. 8% didn't do it in the 1970s and it won't do it today.

I don't believe in psychological compression points in stock, housing or anything else. The only sound basis for judgement on valuation is earnings. For stocks, that's the P/E ratio. For housing, that's price/rent (or rent/price if you prefer).

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_15182519 From the article: Both Stephanie and Nathan Sloop are being charged with aggravated murder in the death of her 4-year-old son, Ethan. Previously, only Nathan Sloop was being held on aggravated murder charges, but the evidence pointed to Stephanie Sloop playing a substantial role in the abuse that led to her child's death. In Utah, aggravated murder charges can carry three penalties: death, life in prison without parole, or 25 years to life in prison with the option of parole. Joe Stacy, Ethan's father, is supportive of seeking the death penalty in the case, he said Friday. ' "I'm just happy they got the charges they got," he said. Both also will face 2nd degree felony child abuse and obstruction of justice charges and 3rd degree felony desecration of a body charges. Nathan Sloop also is charged with damaging a jail. How very, very sad.

Elliemae, I always wonder what psychological issues interfered with the parents' ability to take care of their child. It's not an excuse. It's just that in my experience in working with parents and children that often the most abusive parents are the ones with the most serious and complex psychological issues. My problem with this case, and all cases like this, is that we honestly have no mental health system anymore in this country. We dismantled it in the 80's and we've done nothing but underfund and diminish the tattered pieces that are struggling to remain in place. I'm sure you're aware that county CPS workers often have hundreds of cases. There is no way that they can possibly monitor all of these cases properly with the attention and time they deserve. There is no way a CPS worker is given the chance to take a thorough assessment and to really take the time to understand the complexity of the family systems they are observing let alone the individual people with complex psycho-social issues in that family system. Cases like these illustrate like nothing else that we as a society don't care about children or families at all. Oh, the "family values" folks on the right give lots of lip service to caring. But when it comes right down to it they are the first ones to blame, shame, and cut people out of programs that are desperately needed. "Pick yourselves up by your bootstraps" works for people who are sane and stable. This doesn't work for the vast majority of cases that are brought before CPS or the tattered mental health systems. If we were to show real concern and care for our families and children, we as a society would value our social workers, psychotherapists, psychologists, case management workers, and counselors much more and we would fund a vast and robust system of care and support for families and children who struggle with complex psycho-social issues. I believe a society can be judged by how it treats its most vulnerable and disenfranchised citizens. On this basis, I'd give our society in the United States of America an F. We don't fund programs for our most vulnerable and disenfanchised citizens because they don't vote because many of them are too mentally ill-downtrodden-undereducated-underprepared for life. They don't have a voice so there is no political backlash when their programs are cut and/or diminished. The rest of us would rather have a tax break for corporations and our pocketbooks than to see our money going to help people in our society who really have needs who cannot simply "pick themselves up by their bootstraps" because they are truly disabled. Too often the mentally ill are judged as moral outcasts and as "lazy." Why can't people understand that mental illnesses aren't very different from physical illnesses in that the people who suffer with them aren't to blame for suffering from them? Instead we tell people with clinical depression to "buck up" and people with clinical anxiety to "calm down" and anyone with emotional issues to "get over it." These people would "buck up," "calm down," and "get over it" if they could, quite honestly. It's a crime that we have real effective treatments for many mental illnesses and that we have no system that facilitates people who suffer from mental illnesses to receive these services in an efficient and consistent way. It's time that our society realizes that mental health treatment can help even some of the people who look like "lost causes" to become capable tax-paying citizens who contribute to society. Denying mental health treatment and continuing to ignore our most vulnerable and disabled citizens actually costs us more than offering them consistent and efficient treatment. Most of the people in our jails today suffer from one form of mental illness or another be it addiction, posttraumatic stress disorder, anxiety disorders, mood disorders, or thought disorders. It costs us on average $50,000 per year to keep them locked away in places that do not help them to recover. When they get out they typically re-offend because we don't bother offering them any kind of rehabilitative treatment. Then we spend the money on putting them through the expensive court systems only to spend $50,000 per year to incarcerate them. If we had a mental health system that was effective, efficient, and consistent many of our "offenders" would avoid incarceration. The society would benefit because these people wouldn't be committing the crimes that mess up victims and force victims to spend valuable resources in order to heal the damage caused by mentally ill people who are left untreated. And we would get the added benefit that those who can be helped would become productive tax-paying citizens who would contribute to our society rather than causing a drain on our society. But instead we continue to be very mean-spirited people and blame the mentally ill for their illnesses and lock them away where they cannot possibly find healing to join society in a productive way. This is a moral issue. It's an ethical issue. Children and families who suffer from mental illness individually and systemically are left to fend for themselves. Then we see cases like this one in the news and we collectively scratch our heads wondering how anyone can possibly do what has been done. We just blame them and lock them away sending their children to abusive foster group homes and abusive foster families (if the children are lucky). It's disgusting. It's immoral. But that's the society we've chosen. It's sick. It's sad, and all of us should be ashamed.

simchaland says

I’m sure you’re aware that county CPS workers often have hundreds of cases. There is no way that they can possibly monitor all of these cases properly with the attention and time they deserve. There is no way a CPS worker is given the chance to take a thorough assessment and to really take the time to understand the complexity of the family systems they are observing let alone the individual people with complex psycho-social issues in that family system.

CPS workers are usually poorly trained, overworked and underpaid. APS workers, ditto. They have 72 hours to respond; I've had the police involved when a senior was in danger of being physically abused and exploited financially to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars. The police said it was a civil matter. There are people who are waiting for our vulnerable seniors and preying on them. They become "close" to them and the next thing you know they're adding themselves to the checking account, their houses, etc. Hospital corporations do this too - I know of several people who've had the hospital (non-profit) show up to their house post discharge and offer to bring them to an attorney who can draw up a will making the hospital the beneficiary of the will. It's despicable. Nursing Home Ombudsmen used to be paid positions, now they're part-time or volunteer. Someone needs to protect our seniors from the nursing homes and assisted livings - to represent them and ensure they're not being mistreated. But we treat our sick and vulnerable people as if they're the least important of all. I have witnessed the atrocities of a nursing home, how the owner protected the perpetrators and how horrible it was for all involved. Not in my current job - I work for a place that not only follows up on every report but also has turned several staff members in for abuse and followed through to prosecution. Not so much in a past job, where a nurse with a history of abuse was protected by administration as she freely verbally, emotionally, and physically abused patients. In this case, this couple truly sounds like they were pretty messed up emotionally and psychologically. The child's father attempted to protect him but the courts sent him with the mom anyway. The step-father beat the wholy shit out of him, the mother was well aware of the abuse and allowed this child to die a horrible death. Yes, our mental health system is as broken as our healthcare system. But in this case, I doubt that mental health treatment or the lack of it is a mitigating factor. The courts were forced to hand over this child due to the laws even though the mother had abandoned him. I believe that these people deserve the death penalty, but the type where they take several days or weeks to die while they're in pain and horrible distress. I don't care what brought the couple to the point that they were at - I only care that they live & breathe and that's a privelege that should be revoked, slowly & permanently.