patrick.net

Stopped by my local Honda dealer to "look around." They are desperate to sell cars. 2013, 2014 models, anything! Sales guy offered me special financing. I told him I pay cash.

Think I'll stick with my current ride. It's paid for and runs great, even with 180K miles on the odometer.

Homeboy, how can you defend the Obamacare Turd Pie? Obama had to lie to the public, had to twist arms to get it passed (barely), refused to delay the individual mandate, but gave a free pass/extension to businesses. TONS of exemptions for friends/bundlers, etc. Each month passes and more and more of Americans who liked/wanted their 'shitty' plans (your words, not mine) can't keep them, because Obamacare's cryptic requirements now deem them illegal. Republicans saw this shitstorm years in advance, and tried to repeal or delay. And all during this time, you and the O-bots continued to drink the Kool-Aid while insulting those on pat.net who said, 'yeah, I have a big problem w/ Obamacare'.

Well, the curtain has been raised and now all can see that Obamacare was ill-conceived, poorly written, poorly executed, and now (w/o Senate approval mind you), has been self-delayed. How can you defend a house that has already burned down? The MSM press who's in the bag for the Dems, will never really tell the tale of millions who lost their insurance, who can't even buy a slice of Obama's shit pie, because the website is fuckin' broke. But we'll know in Nov '14 what America thinks of Obama and his 'care'....... HE OWNS THIS MESS.

No jobs,No consumers.
Could someone explain this to me in layman's terms.

Wait! I think I figured it out.
The unemployed,temporary & 29 hr/week,minimum wage with food stamp assisted jobs doesn't allow some to have any discretionary funds to buy crap.

ooooh how conservatives are soooo upset that Obamacare is here to stay. All they can do is ramble on and one about an issue they lost and can't get over.

jvolstad says

Stopped by my local Honda dealer to "look around." They are desperate to sell cars. 2013, 2014 models, anything! Sales guy offered me special financing. I told him I pay cash.

Think I'll stick with my current ride. It's paid for and runs great, even with 180K miles on the odometer.

A friend sold a car franchise so I asked him about all the sales pitches. Here are a few of his responses.

When one walks onto the lot,we try to to get them to pay a maximum price. I had that one in my hard drive.lol

If your trade-in is in good shape,we try to get it for nothing.We will make money.

We never mention increased insurance premiums.

We never mention increased Ad valorem.

We never mention sales tax.

We never mention depreciation.

We never mention the total cost of financing.

We hard sell our low rate financing plan & low monthly payment.

And then he ask me, Do you want to buy a car? I'll make you a deal!

Not fair and square...
With no safeguards in place for voter identification, the Chad once again neutered the US electoral process..

edvard2 says

This is a public announcement: Obama won the election and will be in office for 3 more years. That is all...

So you know that health insurance policy you had and liked and could afford? Yah that's been cancelled, but tell you what, we WON'T tax the snot out of you as well! So you can keep your no health insurance!

So you intentionally misspell "unaffordable" to lessen the impact of the word.
Nice try, but it only serves to highlight the obvious.

Quigley says

zzyzzx says

CaptainShuddup says

Then make it... Oh I don't know... affordable perhaps?

Truth in advertising laws should apply here. It should be named the Unaffordable Mandatory Care Act

Slight tweak to that name: Unafordable Mandatory Insurance Act.

Health care is extra, and will require paying a large deductible.

Call it Crazy says

It's a good thing only "conservatives" need health insurance.... I'm glad the "liberals" in this country don't need it....

that made zero sense.

Call it Crazy says

Ahhh... but Obama DIDN'T give in to the Republican whiners...

He DID give in to the Democrat whiners...

See, there's a difference...

Just a pleasant reminder: Obama won. ha ha ha!!!!

Call it Crazy says

You say that now as a "buyer".... Let's see what happens when you become a "seller" and have to pay those commissions!!

Very true!

Call it Crazy says

nw888 says

I find the commission thing to be helpful, because the REA is hungrier than the non-commissioned people.

You say that now as a "buyer".... Let's see what happens when you become a "seller" and have to pay those commissions!!

The buyer always pays, either directly or through a higher purchase price.

bgamall's threads are like a horrible auto accident - I shouldn't look, but I can't help myself.

AverageBear says

Homeboy, how can you defend the Obamacare Turd Pie?

I'm still open to the possibility that the program will fail, but I think you're premature in sounding the death knell. I'll take your criticisms one at a time:

AverageBear says

Obama had to lie to the public

He said you could keep your plan if you like it. What he meant by that was that plans would be grandfathered in if they didn't change. He was mainly trying to dispel the myth that ACA was going to force everyone on to some sort of "socialized" medicine that was run by the government, which was completely false. I agree that he should have immediately clarified that, and he didn't. He continued to repeat what he said, and I think that was a mistake. Does that invalidate the entire ACA law? No, I don't think that it does. And it was no secret that there would be minimum standards of coverage for all insurance policies. That was well publicized. In my opinion, anyone who now acts surprised that substandard insurance policies aren't allowed anymore is being disingenuous.

AverageBear says

had to twist arms to get it passed (barely)

How is that a bad thing? Yes, it barely passed, because the Obstructican party wanted to do NOTHING to reform healthcare, when clearly it needed reform. Getting a law like that passed under such heavy opposition by a political party that doesn't CARE whether the middle class gets healthcare, is a great achievement, not a mistake.

AverageBear says

refused to delay the individual mandate

This is a very strange comment, given that this whole THREAD is a complaint that Obama DID delay the individual mandate. How do you explain your contradictory position?

AverageBear says

but gave a free pass/extension to businesses.

I agree that was a mistake. They obviously gave in to political pressure. Again, does that invalidate the whole law? I don't see how that's necessarily the case.

AverageBear says

TONS of exemptions for friends/bundlers, etc.

That's just false.

AverageBear says

Each month passes and more and more of Americans who liked/wanted their 'shitty' plans (your words, not mine) can't keep them, because Obamacare's cryptic requirements now deem them illegal

But he just exempted them and said they CAN keep their policies, and are immune from the requirement to buy insurance. So that SHOULD make you happy, yet it seems to have the opposite effect.

AverageBear says

Republicans saw this shitstorm years in advance, and tried to repeal or delay.

The republicans try to repeal or delay EVERYTHING the democrats do. That's why I believe we are going to see a lot fewer people voting republican in the near future.

AverageBear says

And all during this time, you and the O-bots continued to drink the Kool-Aid while insulting those on pat.net who said, 'yeah, I have a big problem w/ Obamacare'.

I'm sorry that you feel my opinion "insults" you, but I'm not going to shy away from defending the truth just because a gang of loudmouthed Rushbots don't want me to.

AverageBear says

Well, the curtain has been raised and now all can see that Obamacare was ill-conceived, poorly written, poorly executed, and now (w/o Senate approval mind you), has been self-delayed.

I disagree that it was ill-conceived or poorly written, with the exception of the requirement that Congress be on exchange insurance. THAT was a stupid political stunt engineered by a Republican, and caused all sorts of problems in implementation. It should never have been added to the law.

Poorly executed? In some ways, yes, almost all of which are directly due to Republican obstructionism. The federal exchange was never intended to be the source for a majority of the states to offer health insurance signups. The states were supposed to run their OWN exchanges, and the states that did so are running fine for the most part. And the false outcry about people being able to keep their old substandard plans? That was engineered by the Republican party. ALL of the criticism has been engineered:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/21/us/politics/gop-maps-out-waves-of-attacks-over-health-law.html?_r=0

AverageBear says

and now (w/o Senate approval mind you), has been self-delayed.

Yes, in a mistaken conciliatory gesture to the Republicans. Obama should have maintained a hard line, like he did with the ridiculous government shutdown the Republicans tried. He won that battle, but now he's losing this battle because he gave in. Big mistake.

AverageBear says

How can you defend a house that has already burned down?

Again, if it "burns down", I will admit it. At this point you are premature.

AverageBear says

The MSM press who's in the bag for the Dems

This is insane. The mainstream media has been bashing ACA for 2 solid years. To say they're "in the bag for the Dems" shows that you have no connection whatsoever to reality.

AverageBear says

will never really tell the tale of millions who lost their insurance, who can't even buy a slice of Obama's shit pie, because the website is fuckin' broke.

Um, they fixed the website. Read the news much?

AverageBear says

But we'll know in Nov '14 what America thinks of Obama and his 'care'....... HE OWNS THIS MESS.

Obama's popularity is pretty low now, but his biggest mistakes have nothing to do with ACA. The drone strikes and NSA scandal are really much bigger issues, despite what the mainstream media would have you believe. The problem is, voting Republican would be even WORSE. We have a choice between the party that failed to close Gitmo, commits murder, and spies on its own citizens, or the party that probably would do all those things too, PLUS had a hissy fit and shut down the government because they lost a vote on a healthcare law. Both parties suck, but the Republicans don't have one single POSITIVE accomplishment, only negativity.

New Renter says

The buyer always pays, either directly or through a higher purchase price.

So when a house is sold without a RE agent, it's 6% cheaper? I have not found that to be the case.

Why do you hate the new math?

It's new home prices, not all home prices. Big difference there.

Call it Crazy says

Based on the median real income, home prices have never been more unaffordable at a stunning 6.7x average salary.

Just insane. In order to build net worth, it is recommended to NEVER have a mortgage that is more than 2X your yearly income. I know this is very hard for most people to achieve.

Call it Crazy says

Still think "we" can handle higher interest rates?

We can't, but the real question is, what will cause interest rates to spike drastically any time soon?

Call it Crazy says

Oh no..... Are we seeing a chink in the armor????

Hey, don't be racist.

Start creating 1 year adjustable rate mortgages at 1% to bring the illusion that the payments are affordable.

The problem isn't home prices are too high, it's that wages are too low.

rooemoore says

The problem isn't home prices are too high, it's that wages are too low.

Yes, the affordability sucks.

WOW! The UNtrustworthy are certainly in control of what information is apparent to the people!

Say hey! This was in the Wall Street Journal on March 30, 1999. Note "... how much it will buy."

Holy cow/interesting/compelling ...!

And where is it up to date??? Right here ... see the first chart shown in this thread.
Recent Dow day is Tuesday, December 24, 2013 __ Level is 104.9

WOW! It is hideous that this is hidden! Is there any such "Homes, Inflation Adjusted"? Yes! This was in the New York Times on August 27, 2006:

And up to date (by me) is here:
http://patrick.net/?p=1219038&c=999083#comment-999083

WOW! The UNtrustworthy are certainly in control of what information is apparent to the people!

And http://patrick.net/?p=1230886

Using this site as a platform for slanderous allegations against private citizens.

Ban him!

This is your last chance to get fucked in the ass by me.

Call your local mortgage broker and realtor immediately to sign-up for your last chance to be torn a new fucking hole.

If the site owner bans your ass, I'll be happy to go premium for two years.

Thwarting a lunatic trying to urinate on passers by is not blocking free speech.

tatupu70 says

New Renter says

The buyer always pays, either directly or through a higher purchase price.

So when a house is sold without a RE agent, it's 6% cheaper? I have not found that to be the case.

Probably not but the money still ultimately comes from the buyer. If it doesn't go to an agent it goes to the seller. Either way the money comes out of the buyer's pocket.

Call it Crazy says

And the rest are putting their home purchases on their EBT cards...

Only the ones not paying with their couch change.

New Renter says

Probably not but the money still ultimately comes from the buyer. If it doesn't go to an agent it goes to the seller. Either way the money comes out of the buyer's pocket.

Not to derail the topic, but this is not correct, IMO.

nw888 says

Yes, it's a really hard, because there is nothing for sale. (We're looking for at least a 1/4 acre, so already that's rare).

I watched prices barely budge down about 10-15% during the crash. San Marino was 5%. They just stayed there as interest rates came down, and then people were selling for just over the bubble price they payed in 2005-2006. If that fiasco didn't make housing budge, I doubt anything in the near future is going to do it.

so buy now or get priced out forever? I cant tell you whether its time to buy or not right now, however buying anything under pressure is never a good idea imo.

This is just my opinion but, if we knew there was a huge bubble in 2006 and prices are now higher than that...buying now sounds like a bad idea. Take my opinion with a grain of salt...

LOL.
The merriest bunch ever.

people still post zerohedge articles? LOL

affordability is all about monthly payment which is still very low compared to the last few decades due to STILL-VERY-LOW interest rates. how about a real chart?

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/COMPHAI

bgamall is right. the arm is too long.

wow the mountain of evidence is huge. i think this hoax is going to be busted wide open.

Mr. & Mrs. HowMuchaMonth don't care about your stupid ratios, only that they are "wasting money on rent" and were offered a loan that they can keep up payments on if they go on a Ramen diet.

Strategist says

LOL.

The merriest bunch ever.

agreed

bgamall4 says

So, Emilie's aunt turns out to be a lawyer in Utah?

http://www.cottlegarrettlaw.com/firm/Profiles.html

Look at the middle lady.

Ugh.

You're a realtor.

Meccos says

This is just my opinion but, if we knew there was a huge bubble in 2006 and prices are now higher than that...buying now sounds like a bad idea. Take my opinion with a grain of salt...

The problem is proposition 13 that artificially limits the supply by incentivizing people not to move. This holds down the inventory, and so prices naturally rise in the good areas. For example, there will be more people from Google, Facebook, etc. looking for homes in Palo Alto and Atherton than there will be supply. This will keep prices raising absent a giant drop in their stocks.

Meccos says

so buy now or get priced out forever? I cant tell you whether its time to buy or not right now, however buying anything under pressure is never a good idea imo.

In 2006 things were much simpler; I could have told you with 100% certainly not to buy, but today it's a bit more complicated.

Positives for real estate in bay area:
- Fed is printing a lot of money and it made nasdaq go up 37% in the last year. Many people are cashing out options and transferring money into real estate.
- Chinese are taking money out of china and parking it here because China could have a serious economic adjustment soon.
- Prop 13 limits supply
- people that got their mortgages during super low rates are less likely to add to inventory
- union jobs (firefighters, cops, BART) are still making great money and did not really have to take a pay cut.

Negatives or risks:
- higher interest rates
- nasdaq might have a significant correction once QE is over or for some other unpredictable reason.
- companies like Cisco may have to do large layoffs as their revenues keep being eaten away by the cloud.

..SSSSHHHHHH!!!!! sh... sh... sh...
Quiet you guys, it's almost midnight, let's see if we hear any miracle dings in the kitty, for Ole' Gipper's sake. (soft Violins start playing)
You know ever since Obama was just a little bra in Kenya dreaming of the days he would be hitting those radical waves in Hiawatha. He always dreamed that he would one day create an Insurance racket so convoluted in greed, fraud, lies and deceit it would almost seem too good to be true.
Even way back then he knew it would need the young and invincible, the rich and the venerable, and the dumb and available to pull it off.
Those meanies want to destroy his dreams people, if their is a Santa in Heaven and Jesus loves MOST of the children, then please grant this be Christmas Miracle for Obama on this so holy oh the most holiest of all nights, just a few more hundred thousand before midnight. That's all he ever wanted, even back when he was a community organizer who Organized that thing for what's his face. This is all he ever wanted.
On Christmas day, that is all he wanted.

(falls to the ground and starts sobbing)
[the ground starts shaking and rumbling]

...wait a minute, what's that?
What's this?

It's the Diabetic, the Dismembered... Oh the Maimed, ah I can't look is that guy roasted? Ah The humanity!!!!