patrick.net

HydroCabron says

pornography: also

What a thrilling usage of the colon: an abused and forlorn punctuation mark.

Sorry Timmy, I don't think so.

WOW! The UNtrustworthy are certainly in control of what information is apparent to the people!

Say hey! This was in the Wall Street Journal on March 30, 1999. Note "... how much it will buy."

Holy cow/interesting/compelling ...!

And where is it up to date??? Right here ... see the first chart shown in this thread.
Recent Dow day is Friday, January 3, 2014 __ Level is 105.6

WOW! It is hideous that this is hidden! Is there any such "Homes, Inflation Adjusted"? Yes! This was in the New York Times on August 27, 2006:

And up to date (by me) is here:
http://patrick.net/?p=1219038&c=999083#comment-999083

WOW! The UNtrustworthy are certainly in control of what information is apparent to the people!

And http://patrick.net/?p=1230886

It was the weather.
Not everyone lives in beautiful and sunny Southern California, you know.
We spent the afternoon on Christmas day at the beach, while the rest of the country was freezing to death.
High prices in California? Worth every penny.

Here goes....
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/chrysler-says-snow-ice-pressured-135808196.html;_ylt=AwrSyCNKQcdS2C0AW2CTmYlQ

Call it Crazy says

Strategist says

Here goes....

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/chrysler-says-snow-ice-pressured-135808196.html;_ylt=AwrSyCNKQcdS2C0AW2CTmYlQ

Or maybe shoppers are strapped for cash and had to make a decision where to spend:

....."but also people were more impacted by the compressed shopping season, most of which was in December," Kelley Blue Book senior analyst Karl Brauer said. "People were doing more Christmas shopping than car shopping."

Are retailers offering sub-prime loans for Christmas presents??

Credit cards. Worse then sub-prime loans.
29.99% apr. What a scam.

Call it Crazy says

Ahhhh.... I know the reason!

People had to send in their first premium payment for their Obamacare insurance (which just went up). So, that just used up their disposable income they were going to use for their new car payment....

Isn't that a responsible thing to do? Spending limited funds on healthcare, rather than a new car you may not need?
I even have health insurance for my German Shepherd. $350 annual premium. What's that? 100 trips to Taco Bell?

Walked by 4 dealerships at 7pm last night. Not one customer. This was in LA County South Bay Area....probably one of the wealthiest areas in the US.

I was going to get a new car just before the new year. But then I thought to myself "why bother." My current car runs just fine.

Call it Crazy says

Oh come on... Don't be a cheapskate... Do your part for America and buy a new car!!! I did!!

I prefer to call myself responsible with my money. I also pay cash for a car. Nope, maybe next year.

Weird: I can swear I've heard a very upbeat report re car sales on NPR this morning.

This in spite of doubling down on the "Buy a car as a christmas present" themed commercials this year.

I'm in the car repair biz. A lot of people got rid of their perfectly good cars with 100-200,000 mile life potential remaining during the bubble years, over some $600 list of repairs, declaring angrily, "I'm getting a NEW car!" Now these 2005-2008s are coming in for repairs when the owners are strapped for cash, and they're finding it has a list of $1200 repairs needed- that's $1200 EACH! Lots of regret now, letting those earlier model but durable cars go.
Wait till you see what it costs when your 2013-14 has 80,000 miles and needs repair. The rearview mirror alone has more computing power than the Apollo spacecraft of the '70s! I am not even exaggerating.

Automan Empire says

"Buy a car as a christmas present"

I never heard of people actually doing this in RL.

Should illegal alien be allowed to practice law?

Straw Man says

I never heard of people actually doing this in RL

I know, right? But every year come the 6 figure budget commercials.

Automan Empire says

I'm in the car repair biz. A lot of people got rid of their perfectly good cars with 100-200,000 mile life potential remaining during the bubble years, over some $600 list of repairs, declaring angrily, "I'm getting a NEW car!" Now these 2005-2008s are coming in for repairs when the owners are strapped for cash, and they're finding it has a list of $1200 repairs needed- that's $1200 EACH! Lots of regret now, letting those earlier model but durable cars go.

The average price of new car is what - $30K? This means throwing away $3K in sales tax alone. Getting a new car over $600 repair bill is just silly.

Straw Man says

is just silly.

Oh, I agree. They are thinking of a monthly payment that they saw in a commercial, which is probably waaay less than the actual payment would be. "Why spend $600 on an OLD car (a few times a year mind you) when I could have a NEW one for $450/mo!" is the likely thinking. Never mind the increased cost of full insurance required by financing, and the fact that it depreciates like an ice sculpture off the lot.

I always say, the new car market would practically collapse in a world of rational thinkers.

Straw Man says

The average price of new car is what - $30K? This means throwing away $3K in sales tax alone. Getting a new car over $600 repair bill is just silly.

I agree! I just saw something on TV that said the average new car price is 30K, and I can buy vintage Ford Escorts for around 1K and run them for years for next to nothing!

oops, duplicate post

It's illegal for patients to be turned away from emergency rooms without being seen. The actual story:

"'The people in there told me that since I didn't have an insurance card, I would be billed for the whole cost of the x-ray,' Galvez said, her young daughter in tow. 'It's not fair – you know, I signed up last week like I was supposed to.'

The x-ray's cost, she was told, would likely be more than $500."

also:

"A similar situation frustrated Mary, an African-American small businesswoman who asked MailOnline not to publish her last name. She was leaving the Inova Alexandria Hospital in Alexandria, Virginia with two family members.

'I had chest pains last night, and they took me in the emergency room,' Mary said. 'They told me they were going to admit me, but when I told them I hadn't heard from my insurance company since I signed up, they changed their tune.'

She told MailOnline that a nurse advised her that her bill would go up by at least $3,000 if she were admitted for a day, and her doctor told her the decision was up to her."

So, these people weren't turned away (as the headline said). They were notified that if their insurance isn't in effect, they would have to pay the entire cost out of pocket. That's standard practice - and if the hospital is later provided with the insurance info, they will bill the provider.

This is no different than it was on December 31st. If you don't have insurance you might have to pay out of pocket. While Universal healthcare would be better than our current plan, this story appears to be the result of an overzealous reporter who was looking for people to meet a script he'd already written.

The latest lies about Obamacare are shocking in their implications.

Is there no depth to which fictitious Obama and made-up Pelosi will not stoop?

These imaginary revelations have caused me to lose all respect for made-up Obama!

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

administrators have been terrorized into herded the dying into the hands of Michelle Obama and her roving death panels

I believe they strip them of their clothing and possessions first. Then yank gold teeth out with pliers, execute, and eat on the spot or grind up for fertilizer.

I bought two cars last year, and the dealer sends me emails every day begging me to buy another. They must be desperate.

I for one will be waiting as long as possible before upgrading my 2007 KIA Spectra. Two technologies are delaying purchase:

(1) Self-drive

(2) Fuel cells

I want both.

CaptainShuddup says

I bought two cars last year, and the dealer sends me emails every day begging me to buy another. They must be desperate.

It's how the scumbags make their living.

Call it Crazy says

Straw Man says

The average price of new car is what - $30K? This means throwing away $3K in sales tax alone.

Whoa... You have a 10% sales tax??? I'd move....

Yep. And a 10% state income tax.

I'd move....

I would too. But the weather, man, THE WEATHER!!!

None of them mentioned that they were there for "free" care. There are always co-pays, deductibles, etc. The story mentioned that a woman with cardiac pain balked because she might be responsible for a $3,000 hospital charge. Hell, I've seen $20,000 charges for overnight visits.

If she truly experienced chest pain, she'd have stayed. And if she has a heart attack she'll be back. Then she won't care about the out of pocket cost.

There's always medical bankruptcy. She should look on the bright side

Ellie's right we all just shit money while we walk that cheap bitch!

Undoing Obamacare will be the only sensible solution, may Obama go to hell in the pages of the History books as the great President we want to forget.

There really is no other choice. It's a fucking healthcare system that was framed and sold as "Affordable" and there is not anything remotely affordable about it. Unless you pose a hypothetical question about the alternative of not having insurance. Debt is debt buddy, the Voters will be smart enough to figure that out.

Hey If I'm paying out rageous premiums and every complaint about high the premiums are, under a system called "The Affordable something or another ACT" (Yes it's all just an act!)
And when people complain about high premiums, the biggest Champions who probably are being crushed by premiums them selves and know it, all chime in defending it telling us we're lucky it's not more. BULLSHIT!!

Between that 16K a year, and what I would need to pay out of pocket anyway.

Say I need a 30K operation. I would have to come up with 10K anyway. Plus I already spent 16K on premiums, so that's 26K. What's another 4K out of pocket? I'll just pay the damn thing, and forgo having to shell out 16K the next year and the year after that. Especially young and even older healthy people don't see any value in this healthcare fiasco tragedy at all.

The Healthcare system needs to be a healthcare system not a profit center that greedy, and politically alined loyal constituents defend to tooth and nail.

The lady having a heart attack wanted free healthcare when She's already shelling thousands a moth, shame on you Elliemae, you should know better.

bgamall4,

I'm waiting for you to post a thread about the planes not being able fly as fast as they did at sea level on 9/11.

That will get them started.

CaptainShuddup says

The lady having a heart attack wanted free healthcare when She's already shelling thousands a moth, shame on you Elliemae, you should know better.

Well, my stoned acquaintance, she hasn't paid anything yet. And she arrived a the ER presenting with chest pain, but chose not to be treated due to the possibility that she might be responsible for out-of-pocket costs.

TPB, I know you hate the affordable healthcare act. You've said it before. You've also made no secret of the fact that you hate Obama.

But this story has nothing to do with either of those.

Last year, January, I worked with a guy who needed to fill his prescriptions but hadn't received his new prescription card yet. He was frustrated - as well he should have been - and chose to pay out of pocket. His new insurance reimbursed him for the cost. At my work, we have changed health plans every year because they find a way to save a little on their part. Every January we do this dance.

The woman in the story chose not to be treated rather than to risk having to pay out of pocket for her care. That's a choice that millions of Americans have had to make year after year prior to the affordable healthcare act.

However, if she is indeed covered, and if she's admitted, she will pay an out-of-pocket amount that is different than the billed charges. That $3,000 quoted as a possibility was simply that - and that she chose to walk out was either a smart fiscal move or a really stupid way to fuck up her health even more.

One thing is for sure - this has nothing to do with the affordable healthcare act.

CaptainShuddup says

Especially young and even older healthy people don't see any value in this healthcare fiasco tragedy at all.

You say that because you have had access to healthcare all along.

I had insurance for only 1 year in my life and that was last year, it cleared my savings account out. Say what you want, but Obamacare is that insurance system. The insurance being offered at that same company today is the same BCBS Florida Blue plan as it was for 2012.

I dropped it March of last year, and never plan on purchasing anything like it ever again. It was the dumbest most pointless thing I've ever paid for in my life. I only had to buy it because the Clinic that said they would perform medical treatment at a set price, then reneged and told me I needed insurance. Because they are owned by Memorial Regional Hospital and are considered a wing of the Hospital. There was a long fucking line of Hospital executives, Doctors, Nurses, and lab techs that wanted my dollars, and I'll be damned if they were going to let some pissant doctor single handedly treat my wife for a mere Seven grand and send us off Scott free of daily/weekly and 3 month latter mystery bills that we must pay or lose our credit rating.

I'll bet anything they ran our Fucking credit, after we set the procedure up and about swallowed their butt plug when they realized what Whale they had on the hook.

edvard2 says

foxmannumber1 says

All the people who wrote the constitution did so with the understanding that the USA was created by Whites for the benefit of Whites only. US citizens before the 1960's believed this fact. To try to change this made you a traitor.

The constitution is a written document with guaranteed rights which are spelled out very clearly. There is nowhere in that document that claims any intent from its authors. As such, your argument is not an argument, but rather an assertion based on personal opinion instead of facts, and hence the remainder of your commentary is nonsense.

neither of you are right.

the constitutions were written for Slave Owning Anglo-Saxon Males (not women).

how could "all men be created equal" when Blacks and the Irish were still slaves at the time?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-irish-slave-trade-the-forgotten-white-slaves/31076

elliemae says

The x-ray's cost, she was told, would likely be more than $500."

There's your problem - compared to these markups rents in San Francisco are a once-in-a-lifetime bargain.

Is it bad to waste a solid discharge ? Or better to wait for intestinal difficulties to properly gift Mr. Moynihan?

One of Obama's BIG THREE contributors. One of Romney's BIG THREE too.

Get the picture ? Pull either lever, chump. It's all Politburo for the rich now.

"I think the first thing that we have to do is recognize that we don't have a two party system. I sort of kid about this by saying that we have a one party system, and someday I'm hoping for a second party!"

Ron Paul

mell says

elliemae says

The x-ray's cost, she was told, would likely be more than $500."

There's your problem - compared to these markups rents in San Francisco are a once-in-a-lifetime bargain.

And everybody... ha ha ha Will... he he he PAY!!!! ha ha ha
Their fair share.

Of course fair being what the insurance companies say.

How's that Facebook profile coming Obama?

He's really a professional Facebook personality, he has no idea how in the fuck to lead a country.

Call it Crazy says

...."'The people in there told me that since I didn't have an insurance card, I would be billed for the whole cost of the x-ray,' Galvez said, her young daughter in tow. 'It's not fair – you know, I signed up last week like I was supposed to."

Galvez said she enrolled in a Carefirst Blue Cross bronze plan at a cost of about $450 per month through healthcare.gov, three days before Christmas.

'No one has sent me a bill,' she said.

Hmmm, She "signed up" for a bronze plan, and even if she had an insurance card, didn't realize that she would have a co-pay and deductible payments when treated?? Plus, did she send in the first month premium payment?? If not, she doesn't have insurance....

Three days before Christmas she signed up. That's 7 working days through today - probably not enough to generate a bill. Her insurance might be in force but she doesn't have a card at this time.

Sure - it has something to do with the provider she chose under the affordable care act. However, it would be the same thing if it were a private provider she chose on her own. There wasn't enough time to generate a bill. And if she hasn't paid, she still will be covered if she makes payment in a timely manner.

My point is that this is the exact same situation as if the act hadn't kicked in to make healthcare available. The hospital will bill the patient and if she isn't insured, she will be responsible for the cost out of pocket. If she is insured, it will be at a lower rate negotiated by her health insurer.

Speaking as a person with 25 years of experience in the system, this situation really isn't different than years past. But now everyone can blame Obama. If the woman was truly showing the signs of a cardiac event, she would have been admitted regardless of the insurance issue.

No, the act isn't ideal. However, this is a piss poor example of how the affordable healthcare act is succeeding or failing. Look at it this way: If your auto insurance check was received but not posted, the insurer might not be able to verify benefits if you're in a wreck. Once the check is posted, that's another story.

I'm sure that there will be much better examples of the failures of the private insurers under the healthcare act. This article isn't one of them.

Everyone, unless they're wealthy beyond belief or a lawmaker who has the opportunity to access the top tier plan, has co-payments and deductibles. If this woman didn't know that, the article doesn't mention it. It alludes to it but we can't know.

Every healthcare provider will charge a full amount unless they are presented with proof of insurance. This is a non-story. But haters will hate.

CaptainShuddup says

I dropped it March of last year, and never plan on purchasing anything like it ever again. It was the dumbest most pointless thing I've ever paid for in my life. I only had to buy it because the Clinic that said they would perform medical treatment at a set price, then reneged and told me I needed insurance.

Tpb's experience is typical of the healthcare industry. Does it suck? Hell ya? But the machine is powerful and until we have socialized medicine we're all fucked.

If I was experiencing chest pain to the point that I went to the ER, I would be treated. I doubt it was that serious for her, although it might have been later.

Again, this isn't a failure of the ACA. It's a failure of the system, which is two different things.

It's all Bush's fault. It will take at least a century of Democratic rule to reverse the damage of the Bush administration, before progress can even begin.

Call it Crazy says

11 Nasty Trends That Will Test America's Resilience

#12 - Two Girls, One Cup

Ceffer says

It's all Bush's fault. It will take at least a century of Democratic rule to reverse the damage of the Bush administration, before progress can even begin.

Agreed with the caveat that Obama does not count as a democrat for this purpose.