patrick.net

justme says

Can someone (not Crazy) please start a real thread about Ukraine/Crimea that is not 80% right-wing propaganda? Some solid and truthful analysis is welcome.

The Economist, Al Jazeera, Der Spiegel.

You can pretty much ignore all domestic commercial news sources on this story.

Any President who doesn't place the integrity of the Ukraine above all else is a traitor to America!

Oh well if Cynthia Tucker says so...

No Job Security
No Credit Security
No Savings Security
No faith in the value of the Market

Fix at least two of those things, and most people would be able to buy a house, or believe they will buy a house someday.

As it is now, most people who don't own or haven't been trying to buy a house for the last 5 years. Can't ever imagine them selves buying a house if the current economic conditions persist. That doesn't mean they don't want a house, of course everyone would want to buy a house. That is just basic, no matter who or how they try to spin it.

And because of the basic fundamental want and need, especially in a Democratic society. If owning a house is impossibly out of reach for most people, who would otherwise like to think of them selves as Middle class. Then eventually there will be political hell to pay. I would be concerned trying to invest in bulk properties, communities will be riling against the corporate serial landlord, commoditizing residential single family properties. With the goal to rent out.

CaptainShuddup says

And because of the basic fundamental want and need, especially in a Democratic society. If owning a house is impossibly out of reach for most people, who would otherwise like to think of them selves as Middle class. Then eventually there will be political hell to pay. I would be concerned trying to invest in bulk properties, communities will be riling against the corporate serial landlord, commoditizing residential single family properties. With the goal to rent out.

While I agree, I think the bigger issue with renting is the ability of rents to swing wildly when Wall Street maximizes its speculative ability in rental housing. They'll be pilling on campaign contribution cash to deregulate rental markets so they have no responsibility to the home's upkeep. They'll buy and sell homes, raising and lowering rents as markets shift due to renter initiative or lack thereof, forcing renters to move year by year or when properties change hands or families are priced out of previously affordable markets. In short, the uncertainty created for renters will be the corporate investors' undoing. You can still feel middle class if your rent stays reasonable and you have the option stay for as long as you choose to do so. When you're hopping from foot to foot, wondering when the eviction notice is coming despite the fact that you're paid up and never cause trouble, then people get angry.

bgamall4 says

CaptainShuddup says

Oh well if Cynthia Tucker says so...

People are quoted as saying they don't want to give the poor medical care at all, and they are in the Republican Party. You need to do better than that Captain.

One person does not represent views of the entire party. Who the hell is Cynthia Tucker anyway? You are reading an Oped there, it might as well be fiction.

curious2 says

Schizophrenia, paranoid type, is a serious mental illness. Please, find someone you can trust to help you sort fact from fiction. And, although I'm always skeptical of PhRMA, in your case, you should (re)consider medication. Sometimes these symptoms can result from drugs that you might be taking already, even if they are legal.

I didn't take it seriously too at first, but he brought up a lot of video evidence of Sandy Hook being staged. I don't know why, but this government has gone weird on us lately. Why stage a school shooting, and blow it out of proportion just to try to take away guns? I don't know, but I'm sure someone in government does.

This government has gone very far in their plots for one or another reason, wouldn't put anything past them these days.

FortWayne says

Why stage a school shooting, and blow it out of proportion just to try to take away guns?

Actually, as I pointed out to bgamall in a different thread, the parents aren't trying to take away guns, many of them are in fact gun owners. They are lobbying to put more kids on pills. At least if you are going to suspect a conspiracy, follow the $$$ to where it actually leads. Also, as I pointed out on that thread, it isn't necessary for them to create a fake tragedy; there are plenty of real tragedies that can be exploited by politicians and lobbyists, and Sandy Hook is an example.

One Republican farts and every Democrat not only smells it, but can tell you precisely what every Republican ate last night.

Total liberal here.

I took one of those tests and they called me a Progressive.

HA!

First of all those quizes lead the witness by setting the issues.
I despise all of the petty issues that are just ripped apart and exposed and strewn around, as the pundits rub the deadhorse juices all over them selves, in media splendor, but never mention the things that are important. 90% of the questions in those quizes are not even issues, I'm concerned with, neither are your average person. These issues are presented as the issues, and the important shit just gets drowned out. These questions and polls are designed as a social engineering tool. They brain wash people into thinking these are the issues. And one want's to be current to be hip.

There's no "Fuck off ask me a real question!" option.
So I'm forced to make complacent selection, but I really don't give a shit. Other than it annoys the shit out of me, that because I don't give a fuck about these issues, and they shouldn't even be up for discussion, the majority of the time. If I just leave it at that, then some asshole will make the decision for me.
Next thing you know, Hilary "have you met my husband" Clinton, and the guy who organized that thing for what's his face, are two best options to be the President of the United States of Fucking America!

They should have mail in option, if they wanna know how I feel.

As far as I'm concerned, I only want scientists and engineers on welfare, no one else.

That makes me an elitist.

"There should be no National ID card."

I mean where do you go with that?

Agree, Disagree, Strongly disagree?

What a crock of shit.

What do you call a SS card and Voters Registration?
An all in one photo ID would only be the next logical step.

But there are bigger things I'm concerned with than that.

Where's the Erick Holder should be arrested by the Sheriff Joe and put in an Arizona prison tent, with a pink jump suit?

Where's is Obama a Muslim questions?

Where's the should the financial collapse be fully investigated, along with Alan Hosespan, Hanky Panky Paulson, Tim Geigercounter, and Ben burnt nekkid?

Give me some shit I can sink my teeth into.

And here is how the conversation went -
Obama - "You better not put troops in Ukraine."
Putin - "Up your's."

Dial tone.

Libertarian reporting in!

anonymous says

justme - Okay, just started a new thread, is this what you had in mind?

Thanks, I don't see the new thread, but info above is good.

You know younger generation might not actually understand the phone is being held upside down, they probably never even seen a rotary. Kids these days with their cell phones...

Pretty funny though.

The following article says that the prime minister of Crimea REQUESTED support from Russia in the form of military troops.

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/3/1/in-crimea-citizensstandforselfdefenseandmotherrussia.html

That small but significant fact appears to be missing from the at-best simplistic news reporting in the US.

Now, you may question whether the Crimean PM has the authority for this action. That depends on whether Crimea is indeed autonomous, which they claim to be. Here is what Wikipedia has to say about Crimean autonomy:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 26 February 1992, the Verkhovniy Sovet (the Crimean parliament) renamed the ASSR the Republic of Crimea and proclaimed self-government on 5 May 1992[25][26] (which was yet to be approved by a referendum to be held 2 August 1992[27]) and passed the first Crimean constitution the same day.[27] On 6 May 1992 the same parliament inserted a new sentence into this constitution that declared that Crimea was part of Ukraine.[27]

On 19 May, Crimea agreed to remain part of Ukraine and annulled its proclamation of self-government but Crimean Communists forced the Ukrainian government to expand on the already extensive autonomous status of Crimea.[15]:587

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In summary, the right-wing dunderheads are spouting propaganda when they claim that Russia has simply invaded Crimea.

But it is something most natural that compels us Germans to take an interest in this problem. Among the majority of nationalities that are being suppressed in this State there are 3,500,000 Germans. These Germans, too, are creatures of God. The Almighty did not create them that they should be surrendered by a State construction made at Versailles to a foreign power that is hateful to them, and He has not created 7,000,000 Czechs in order that they should supervise 3,500,000 Germans or act as guardians for them and still less to do them violence and torture.

These truths cannot be abolished by phrases. They are testified to by deeds. The misery of the Sudeten Germans is without end. They want to annihilate them. They are being oppressed in an inhuman and intolerable manner and treated in an undignified way. When 3,500,000 who belong to a people of almost 80,000,000 are not allowed to sing any song that the Czechs do not like because it does not please the Czechs or are brutally struck for wearing white stockings because the Czechs do not like it, and do not want to see them, and are terrorized or maltreated because they greet with a form of salutation that is not agreeable to them, although they are greeting not Czechs but one another, and when they are pursued like wild beasts for every expression of their national life. This may be a matter of indifference to several representatives of our democracies or they may possibly even be sympathetic because it concerns only 3,500,000 Germans. I can only say to representatives of the democracies that this is not a matter of indifference to us.

Iosef V HydroCabron says

He has not created 7,000,000 Czechs in order that they should supervise 3,500,000 Germans or act as guardians for them and still less to do them violence and torture.

You have a point, sort of. This was the justification for Germany invading Czechoslovakia in 1938, to "protect" ethnic Germans in the Böhmen region.

But Böhmen (Bohemia) was a part of Czechoslovakia per WW1 peace treaty, and was not autonomous. So there is also a difference. Russia is not doing the same as what Nazi Germany did in 1938. At least not yet.

justme says

Iosef V HydroCabron says

He has not created 7,000,000 Czechs in order that they should supervise 3,500,000 Germans or act as guardians for them and still less to do them violence and torture.

You have a point, sort of. This was the justification for Germany invading Czechoslovakia in 1938, to "protect" ethnic Germans in the Böhmen region.

But Böhmen (Bohemia) was a part of Czechoslovakia per WW1 peace treaty, and was not autonomous. So there is also a difference. Russia is not doing the same as what Nazi Germany did in 1938. At least not yet.

I doubt this is a similar situation, but one parallel is entertaining: Hitler arranged to be formally asked to invade, both the Sudetenland and Austria, by puppet figures. I would not put the same thing past Putin.

There are few politicians in this situation who I would want behind me in a dark alley.

Perhaps they should meet and have a bowl of Borsch and some sushi and discuss the situation...........Comrade Obamarad

Iosef V HydroCabron says

arranged to be formally asked to invade, both the Sudetenland and Austria, by puppet figures. I would not put the same thing past Putin.

The more alarming truth is that those were not puppets, but easily the overwhelming majority among Sudetenland Germans and Austrians at the time, albeit a very unwise majority. In any case, Chamberlain's concession to sacrifice Czechslovakia was strategically correct. If WWII had broken out a year earlier in 1938, the Western allies would have been defeated as they were not yet ready for war, and there would not have been the chain radar defense system in place around Britain that proved so crucial in stopping Luftwaffe, nor the massive increase in British fighter production . . . in other words, Britain would have been invaded after France fell. The result would have been a catastrophe for liberty. Although Stalin might be tempted to invade Germany if the best Panzer divisions were fighting in East Anglia. But that would still have been a catastrophe regardless which of the two dictators conquered Europe.

FOX & Hannity. HA,HA,HA.

Of course, two dimensions is far too small to be accurate. There are dozens of linearly independent axises along which one can move.

A consequence of this is that I'm not a libertarian as shown above because libertarians don't believe in the concept of public property and I do.

HEY YOU says

FOX & Hannity. HA,HA,HA.

Hmmm I sense sarcasm. Is Hannity/Larry the cable more entertaining or less entertaining than Dennis Miller, Jon Steward, Bill Maher, Lewis Black?

Or does the whole "im gonna be funny by making fun of politics" schtick only go one way?

I don't think this quiz asks enough questions. Does this mean I have to start liking Obama now?

Apocalypsefuck Political Quiz

Personal Issues
Agree Maybe Disagree

If the NRA cared about Freedom, they'd arm every last poofter, dyke and UNwhite with an M134 and 100,000 rounds of ammo and encourage them to marry each other and animals and shit and open fire on anyone who fucks with them.

If the monopoly utility is not Free to bankrupt its customers, Freedom has no meaning!

Individual liberty comes from the barrel of a gun and, if you're smart enough to be selling those, you're getting rich in Afghanistan. This is why we have a second Amendment.

All REALTORS are pederasts and child-porn brokers. Evil fucks. Skull fuck them!

The only mom you're fucking is your own, fucking you in the ass while you scream MOMMEEEEEEE!!!MOMMEEEEEEE!!!MOMMEEEEEEE!!! at the top of your lungs and beg for more of 'her' hairy cock, you freak!

DIE, BANKER FUCKS, FUCKING DIE!

Economic Issues
Agree Maybe Disagree

Only ASSHLOES! pay for houses with financing, leaving gay billionaire Chindians and platinum is hitting space aliens torop up the fraudulently inflated market space.

Strap the negroes into the chair fry them. If AZ could, they'd sell tickets to the executions. Most AZians would pay an extra couple of bucks to cheer and jerk off on the dead.

Anyone can show up on an oligarch's lawn, suck its dick and beg for a tip.

Attacking the unions every way possible has tripled the number of high-paying manufacturing jobs in the US!

Employees should suck off owners, and PAY for the chance to serve their betters.

It's YAMS! or FUCK YOU!, America!

Dan8267 says

Apocalypsefuck Political Quiz

This test is rigged, it called me a Yam.

There is only ONE Apocalypsefuck, everybody else is an Apocalypsefondle.

Dan8267 says

Of course, two dimensions is far too small to be accurate. There are dozens of linearly independent axises along which one can move.

A consequence of this is that I'm not a libertarian as shown above because libertarians don't believe in the concept of public property and I do.

I landed at the exact same spot.

Dan8267 says

It's YAMS! or FUCK YOU!, America!

Right on!

anonymous says

Does the 1994 'Budapest Memorandum' obligate the US to intervene in Ukraine?

Does US care about Ukraine? They are as important as Zimbabwe, so this is more of a cold war trying to screw each other over in a bigger way again.

That's pretty good.

Obama looks like he's groveling for something to someone...

"Yeah, I know Mickey but they took my fucking thumbs..."

Me:"Premiums would bar the middle class from healthcare...

I said Premiums ARE barring the middle class from healthcare!

Nobody can afford the premiums, if they don't get the free Obamaphone plan!

Hello! People are sick and continue to be uninsured!"

Harry Reid:"Will you shut the fuck up, nobody cares!"

I'm weary of anyone telling me to "Educate yourself"

On a topic that has nothing to do with the three "R's".

Anyone!

bgamall4 says

Photo Proof

News flash, there is now something called photoshop. Look it up. Means there is no such thing as photo proof.

bgamall4 says

I am a liberal who supports gun rights because of the Sandy Hook Hoax and because of the behavior of Hitler towards the Jews in disarming them. Sandy Hook was bankster/Zionist plan to disarm Americans.

This relates to health care how?

CaptainShuddup says

I said Premiums ARE barring the middle class from healthcare!

Democrats have waged a war on middle class. But are too busy focusing their voters attention on "saving gays" and something cold warish in Ukraine!

Here is an article that describes the one-sidedness of US media with respect to anything related to Russia

http://www.thenation.com/article/178344/distorting-russia