patrick.net

Interesting article about universal care in France: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124958049241511735.html France Fights Universal Care's High Cost When Laure Cuccarolo went into early labor on a recent Sunday night in a village in southern France, her only choice was to ask the local fire brigade to whisk her to a hospital 30 miles away. A closer one had been shuttered by cost cuts in France's universal health system. Doctors, trade unions and others have called national protests against French health-care cutbacks this year. One petition signed by prominent physicians said they feared the intent of the reform was to turn health care into a 'lucrative business' rather than a public service. France claims it long ago achieved much of what today's U.S. health-care overhaul is seeking: It covers everyone, and provides what supporters say is high-quality care. But soaring costs are pushing the system into crisis. The result: As Congress fights over whether America should be more like France, the French government is trying to borrow U.S. tactics. In recent months, France imposed American-style "co-pays" on patients to try to throttle back prescription-drug costs and forced state hospitals to crack down on expenses. "A hospital doesn't need to be money-losing to provide good-quality treatment," President Nicolas Sarkozy thundered in a recent speech to doctors. And service cuts -- such as the closure of a maternity ward near Ms. Cuccarolo's home -- are prompting complaints from patients, doctors and nurses that care is being rationed. That concern echos worries among some Americans that the U.S. changes could lead to rationing. The French system's fragile solvency shows how tough it is to provide universal coverage while controlling costs, the professed twin goals of President Barack Obama's proposed overhaul. [France Fights Universal Care's High Cost] French taxpayers fund a state health insurer, Assurance Maladie, proportionally to their income, and patients get treatment even if they can't pay for it. France spends 11% of national output on health services, compared with 17% in the U.S., and routinely outranks the U.S. in infant mortality and some other health measures. The problem is that Assurance Maladie has been in the red since 1989. This year the annual shortfall is expected to reach €9.4 billion ($13.5 billion), and €15 billion in 2010, or roughly 10% of its budget ... Please let me know if you can read this (I have WSJ access).

renter for ever_san jose says

Then there is the issue of incentive. what incentive does a patient have in going to a nurse when the copay is the same whether he goes to a nurse or to a M.D ..nothing. the co-pay is the same. looks like health care is broken from both supply and demand side.

Absolutely a problem. This highlights the issue of why our current insurance system causes costs to spiral, because patients don't use health insurance as insurance (which by definition should cover catastrophic things not day to day charges). Unfortunately IMO, universal care tends to make this a larger problem as now everything is paid for by the government and patients aren't responsible for any of their spend on healthcare. This is why I feel that things like HSAs are the right answer, whereby a patient (or government subsidy) pays for the first X dollars of healthcare. Patients then are inclined to shop around and get the best value for their money. Then at a point once costs go over X dollars, all costs are paid for by insurance. This requires a serious amount of clarity in costs that currently do not exist in our system today.

The Original Bankster says

knewbetter says

Money will be valueless before homes.

BINGO!

Possibly. But let me point out that a house can be a liability where the owner must cough up for maintenance and taxes, where cash in the bank incurs no liabilities. Think Detroit, Buffalo, and even some recently built Cali developments where the houses have low to zero market value, but significant costs to the owner. Homes can have a negative value, but not cash. What did you mean in your earlier post about "Amero?" Do you believe USA and Canada will merge, declare the dollar invalid and issue a new currency? Or do you mean some kind of devalue scheme to invalidate foriegn debt?

The Original Bankster says

knewbetter says

Money will be valueless before homes.

BINGO!

And with all those inflated money, did you see a salary increase?

pinnacle says

We also had a drop of 5 percent in average wages which when spread over the entire workforce equates to several million job losses in terms of lost buying power.

Yep. Unemployment will only slow and reverse when wages decrease to a level where people can be affordably employed. This may not be the loss in buying power you say, since the prices for goods will continue to fall as well.

>> France Fights Universal Care’s High Cost I am not surprised that WSJ is busy finding imperfections in other countries' universal health care, and trying to plant the seeds of doubt with it. Certainly, no health care system is cheap, nor perfect. But we have the worst care and LEAST cost effective system in the western hemisphere. France not being 110% perfect is NOT a valid excuse to do nothing.

Fireballsocal says

A buddy had the same thing happen and ended up losing his deposit. The management sent in the deposit to the home owner then gave him a 14 day notice to vacate. Told him he was SOL on the deposit.

Is that a property manager you are talking about? In most states, the deposit belongs to the tenant, and any witholding of deposit funds must be accompanied by a itemized list, usually within 30 days after the end of tenancy. Landlord and management companies that violate the deposit rules open themselves up to an easy lawsuit.

http://www.rentalforeclosure.com Click on Comments. btw, I wouldn't call the landlord, however, I would forward the NOD onto him/her. If you have questions relative to letters/notices/creditor contacts/ I would write the LL a letter asking for clarification so that I could make plans - after all, we are talking about shelter here. If you choose this route, keep a copy of any letter sent and make a copy of any response received and put into a large envelope or file folder to keep in case things continue to go south. If the property goes to foreclosure, you will need these documents in any case you choose to pursue. Another thing would be to make a photocopy of the NOD ENVELOPE received in your mailbox. DO NOT OPEN IT, merely make a copy of the front of the envelope. One thing: You can file a Small Claims action in Small Claims Court for the amount of your security deposit, should you not get it back due to the foreclosure. Judgments are good for ten years and are renewable. Who knows what sort of money the LL may come into in the future (inheritance, etc)? If you are in California, the documents are online and are self-explanatory. http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/selfhelp/smallclaims Finally, a number of newer landlords got involved in rental properties during 2001-2007 using funny-money loans. Those loans are probably resetting, which is why there has been an increase in this sort of thing.

justme says

>> France Fights Universal Care’s High Cost I am not surprised that WSJ is busy finding imperfections in other countries’ universal health care, and trying to plant the seeds of doubt with it. Certainly, no health care system is cheap, nor perfect. But we have the worst care and LEAST cost effective system in the western hemisphere. France not being 110% perfect is NOT a valid excuse to do nothing.

Right on dude....WSJ, Goldman Sach, JPM ...These are the parasites that have eaten the america's basic fabric. I knew this great engineer who was so good at doing what he used to do..that is code and design....He started reading WSJ and the story of evil people that it tries to narrate and make them like role models...within 2 years the guy is completely broke...he lost lot of money in the stock market also...and since he stopped putting his time in his core skills he also became a prime candidate for layoffs...

TPB shows exactly why they protest, not because they don't want healthcare - but because they fear becoming a white minority. Pathetic. Here is who these dummies screaming at the town hall meetings are protecting. http://sickforprofit.com/ceos/

Absolutely a problem. This highlights the issue of why our current insurance system causes costs to spiral, because patients don’t use health insurance as insurance (which by definition should cover catastrophic things not day to day charges). Unfortunately IMO, universal care tends to make this a larger problem as now everything is paid for by the government and patients aren’t responsible for any of their spend on healthcare Cannot agree more ! HSA's are the right solution but have come too late in the game. The chicken have come home to roost for insurance companies.They tried to milk the system by never offering HSA's and thus dug thier own grave.When they saw that their days' are numbered , they started HSA's as a last gasp effort....but its too late. Its hard to imagine that a simple thing like mandatory high deductible HSA's can fix the entire health care system but it works. A russian diplomat (from planned economy)was equally amazed when he saw a supermarket and asked " how are you able to plan and deliver so many goods so efficiently ?" no market can be more efficient than a well regulated free market ..period. Health care problems : demand side : Insurance making patients price insensitive. supply side : regulation/red tape/licensing..etc limiting supply of doctors, medical schools Any market will break when both demand and supply side are screwed. We never had a free market in health care !

"This is hilarious …its like saying ” H1b’s won’t affect cost of software development because its the software companies which set the salaries and cost of software products” Economics 101 : more labor supply reduces labor cost." Economics 102 says that Economics 101 is only true in free market system. The entire health system is far from free market. Remind me again when exactly it was that the health insurers passed cost savings back to consumers rather than increasing profits or investing in the stock market? "If you can afford a Caddy, you get a Caddy — but if you can only afford a ‘72 Pinto, then that is what you get. Why should those who can pay for a Caddy be forced to: A) Buy everyone a Caddy, B) Give up their Caddy and get a Pinto forced upon them, C) Do both and pay for it all." That is EXACTLY what most of the univeral health systems around the world are. You get basic health care with the public system and if you want access to the private system then you buy private insurance. You get ACCESS to use the pinto for basic transportation but can move up to the caddy if you want to pay for it. Anyone who has health insurance is paying for the uninsured in the US anyway through increased premiums and taxes. Economics 103: ass, gas, or grass no one rides free. "HSA’s are the right solution but have come too late in the game" Big weakness in HSA's (which are a very good idea) is the question why would the 30-40% of people who don't pay any or minimal taxes participate. The entire premise of HSA's is that the contributions are tax deductible.

Economics 102 says that Economics 101 is only true in free market system. why can't we focus on making health care a free market system ? nobody interested or all parties have vested interest in something else?

staynumz says

Thanks for the input. It is a house that has been in thier family for years. The LL bought it from the mother in law for 179K back in 98. I mean, the house has got to be worth high 3’s now. They have thier primary residence and a thriving business, well it used to be thriving anyway. Not sure how it is doing now. I am thinking they must have took out loans against the rental property and are just going to let it go? Either way, I dont mind paying the rent. I just would like to put off moving for as long as possible. If I can last close to a year, maybe I can be in position to buy something.

Seriously, this is one of the hassles of renting that I like the least. I have been renting for some years now, and at least 2 of those years, with this final year being the most crucial, the rental has been teetering on foreclosure. The creditor's letters that arrive for the property owner, the photos of my Hummer in the drive~way on foreclosure sites and the fact that it would cost me at @ 15k to have a company move me out lock stock and barrel is not something I want to deal with ever again. If the owner were to be foreclosed while I am the tenant, would then force me to move into something temporary and it is not the sort of problem I need. Who does? I considered withholding rent payments and putting them into an escrow account so that I could pay the bank~~but my attorney informed me that I could be sued by the errant landlord and it could affect my credit rating. I have platinum credit and I don't want to screw it up for the sake of a rental. I have kept my fingers crossed and I am due to move into my newly renovated home in @ a month or so. Enough time to deal with the bank if they come and foreclose on the errant owner. Good luck to you on your rental. Hopefully you will be able to stay there and save up your money to take advantage of the bargains in real~estate.

A good question would be to ask why these notices are being sent to your address in the 1st place. Most people don't even see these notices, just a letter from the bank telling them about the forclosure and the "send all rent money to us" notice. Surely the landlord doesn't have your apartment as his primary address?

Anyways else laughing at Sarah idiot hot ass palin's comment on Obama health care plan as evil...Sooner americans take this woman off their political stage, better for America.

This happened to me last summer. I opened the mail by mistake. We don't usually get the landlords mail and I just tore the top off the envelope and started reading before I realized what I was looking at. First of all the Countrywide rep....yeah, Countrywide, ha, ha, was very rude and told me I had absolutely no right to know what was going on. She sneered at me like I was a piece of trash. (Our family income is most likely higher than hers but I rent so I'm sure that possibility never occurred to her) Anyway there was no way they were going to share any status of info with me. Then I called a lawyer. Now that was a very interesting conversation because he became very irritated with me. He told me that opening someone else's mail was a federal offense that I could be put in jail for. He basically told me I had no rights to protect myself. So do you think he owns rental properties? I made a note to myself (its a very small area where everyone knows each other) not to use his office when I did find a house to buy as it was obvious he had difficulty putting aside his own self interests. We haven't seen any more notices. Perhaps Countrwide contacted the owners and made a change of address, or perhaps they only got behind on the mortgage while on vacation. I do know one thing, they've got this thing levered up way beyond its worth. And they have problems paying their bills on time. (A few utility people were glad to chat w/me on the subject) so I'm preparing myself for a security deposit issue.

I'm with misstrial. It really sucks that a ll would screw someone, and I hope that someone isn't you. But I'd be saving $ to move just in case.

Nomo,
I voted for you, and stand by my choice. That you were born in Mombassa doesn't matter much to me, 'cause I'm a useless POS liberal who is unable to pull my head out of my ass long enough to examine the "evidence" that you've presented. I'm going to buy some of your art, tho:

http://www.regmombassa.com/ (look at the pictures, they're pretty cool).

There's also a really cool artist, Scott A. Blackwell, with a site called mombo company. I have one of his cajun pieces.

Democrats - For the not have's, trying to get free rides for them and getting the vote bank. Republicans - Always been for the insurance, drug companies , super rich. Lobbies - Doctors lobby (for limiting supply of doctors - protectionism), drug lobby ( for monopoly and for profits) , insurance ( for profit) Citizens - for Free market ! Lets fight to get the free market which never existed in health care because we ( the common man ) are the only people who benefit from it, not the democrat party, republicans, insurance companies, drug companies or the lobbies.

Real liberals do have a plan. It's called single payer, like the rest of the civilized world. But conservatives in both parties won't even let it come to the floor. And mindless douchebags like yourself are too busy screaming about liberals and Obama to notice that other countries pay less and get more.

@bap33 "End welfare, outlaw insurance" I concur. Generally complicated problems have simple solution. I don't agree when people say that we don't have a silver bullet for health care. There is a silver bullet ""End welfare, outlaw insurance (except medical catastrophy that too with mandatory % deductible)" Other things will automatically be fixed- its called free market - which made US the most powerful nation economically... .and we somehow magically missed to look at the free market option for health care ?

The shit~eating Hussein lovers are set to tear this country apart. First and foremost the Magic One doesn't even know how to sell the program he's pushing because HE doesn't even understand it. And the ass~wipe 0bamatrons have now been sent out by the White House to fight and beat back any opposition. The politics of Somalia have been brought to America by Obama and his thugz. Hussein is in power and Democrats control congress. It is in the country's interest that they PERSUADE the opposition instead of starting riots. Just like Hussein's blunder with the race~baiting harvard prof (who was calling everyone 'racis') this blunder will only point out to Americans that BHO is nothing more than a Chicago street thug.

Bap33. You are way to obsessed with whether someone else is getting a "free ride". If some medicare patients need a triple bypass cardiac surgery, then I am *happy* that I have good health, rather then being envious of their expensive treatment. You, on the other hand, would be grousing about the free ride. Don't you sense there is something wrong with this picture?

>> it's called free market - which made US the most powerful nation economically… I think you're misguided. The US is the most powerful nation for many entirely different reasons 1. it started out as a largely empty continent which could relatively easily be conquered 2. the indigenous people had no chance to withstand European military technology, might and training 3. there were plentiful agricultural and natural resources that could be exploited 4. there were plentiful immigrants that wanted to escape the old world kings and exploitative oligarchs If you give talented people a fresh start, US is what will happen. However, we have now become a country of oligarchs and financial kings, just like the ones people tried to escape. Sure, relatively free markets help. But you don't seriously think that we ever really had free markets here, do you? Or that this was the sole reason for the 200 year of relatively steady economic progress (although interrupted periodically by excess, decline, recession and depression)?

I have had the same "health insurance" through my job for the past six years. I just got a letter saying they WILL NOT PAY a 3000 dollar medial bill even though it is for procedures specifically covered in their list of benefits. That seems to me like an airtight case for government medical coverage since I couldn't possibly be screwed any worse by government health insurance pencil pushers than I am now being screwed by a bunch of corporate health insurance pencil pushers. How do anti-single payer people defend this kind of jerking around by private "health insurers" when it can hurt them as much as it is hurting me?

I am curious, what was the procedure and were you in networK?

This thread is full of epic fail... TPB I hope you enjoy being an insurance industry shill like the rest of your Repugnican brothers...

Rational thought appears to dead. Half-coherent rants are now what passes for political discourse.

Tenpoundbass says

Now Come on Wanker, after Bush and that whole damn spectacle of over extending their use of power, how can you say that about Obama? It’s crap like that that I can’t genuinely hate the guy, for not being accused of listening to fear mongering crap like that. I don’t think Obama is sinister, I just think he overly optimistic and half assed in his execution of creating a plan. I think is taking on progressive tasks but there is nothing Progressive about him. I think he actually expects some Democrat in Washington to actually have the experience and Vision to actually make his vague ideas into fruition. But unfortunately, he is just sucking wind on that account. Washington is as idea bankrupt as he is. There is not a great visionary in the lot. I don’t think it’s a sinister conspiracy, it’s just a bunch of default idiots, because our political system is depleted of truly “Great” people. And has been for the last 12 years of more. At least since Bill Clinton’s blow job killed the internet.

I despise 'W' only a little more than I loathe Hussein. Because I hate one does not imply support for another.

Some Guy says

WillyWanker says

The shit~eating Hussein lovers are set to tear this country apart. First and foremost the Magic One doesn’t even know how to sell the program he’s pushing because HE doesn’t even understand it. And the ass~wipe 0bamatrons have now been sent out by the White House to fight and beat back any opposition. The politics of Somalia have been brought to America by Obama and his thugz. Hussein is in power and Democrats control congress. It is in the country’s interest that they PERSUADE the opposition instead of starting riots. Just like Hussein’s blunder with the race~baiting harvard prof (who was calling everyone ‘racis’) this blunder will only point out to Americans that BHO is nothing more than a Chicago street thug.

Dance puppet, dance. Big insurance loves you.

The manque poster calls me a 'puppet'. Shouldn't you be screaming 'racism' just about now?

Justme, Your points 1 - 4 apply to Mexico as well. What happened?

Headset, that is a good question. But keep in mind that I did say "for many entirely different reasons", and listed some of them. The list is not exhaustive by any means, but indicates that there are many factors other than "free markets" that are part of the equation. Is it reasonable to think that Mexico would have been a long-time economical powerhouse if only they had "free markets"? "Free markets" was the ONLY factor that the poster rfe-SJ deemed important, and which I was responding to.

When TPB says he is not a Republican and not a liberal, I think his heart is more or less in the right place and he is just confused because he just "knows" he is not liberal or progressive. When the Wanker says he despises W Bush, I do not believe him for a second. Wanker is full-blown neocon shill.

Everything is relative. US has "free markets" relative to other nations. You cannot have absolute free market. Establishing free markets is not easy. You need right kind of judicial system and political system. Even though we crib, there is no country on the planet as good as US in that regard. We are not perfect but better than other countries. been there and seen it in other countries first hand.Our struggle is to make US better and not get enslaved to bad ideas (socialism) like other countries. Free markets are the "primary" reason for our success. We cannot have free markets without other freedoms. Our contitution was written for making us free and equal.Socializing health care is step back in free markets.We never gave free markets a chance in health care ..how sad. You can have the best resources ( south america, parts of africa..etc) but without a framework to establish free markets you can never shine like US. BTW, Free markets also mean that the participants in the free market are also free !

>>Free markets are the “primary” reason for our success. I don't think so. The problem is that some of these free-market fundamentalists confuse "free markets" and the more important aspects of society, such as a democratic constitution, near-universal suffrage (voting rights), and the rule of law. And universal health care, in those places that are so lucky. The kind of fake "free market" we have had in the US is highly overrated. It's been a nasty monopolistic mess most of the time.

You are being manipulated, these spontaeous uprisings are no more grass roots than were the tea parties (that made a chunk of change for Lipton, by the way). http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/06/tampa-town-hall-on-health_n_253478.html http://mediamatters.org/research/200908060014 http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2009/08/labor_weighs_in.html http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2009/08/07/town-hall-protestors-forget-the-lessons-of-kindergarten/?cxntfid=blogs_jay_bookman_blog http://mediamatters.org/research/200908040053 Probably the most pertinent and informative article: http://www.theonion.com/content/news/town_hall_meeting_gives?utm_source=infocus

Speaking of good news, right now there is a TV program (or infomercial) in Mandarin langauage called Financial World of Wonders on channel 38.1 here in Silicon Valley. They have a bunch of chinese realtor and mortgage broker types apparently trying to talk up the local market. You gotta give it to these people, they actually have graphs of asking versus selling price and other data. Does anyone in the know want to translate what the spiel is?

You cannot have free market without "democratic constitution, near-universal suffrage (voting rights), and the rule of law" I am taking about the free market in the true sense not just the "market" I think US is far more superior to other countries in this aspect even though we are not perfect. You have to stay in other countries to appreciate that, not just read some literature. I don't believe we ever had free market in health care.

that this was the sole reason for the 200 year of relatively steady economic progress US had a constitution primarily focused on one thing "freedom" A free market is a natural by product of those freedoms. "freedom to buy and sell goods with everybody having equal rights"