patrick.net

Could things be any more absurd? Yes, start a war with no purpose and no good guys in the fight.

So happy to see that some of the the best "investments" to be found are in shorting fraudsters who managed to get a public listing.

Go capitalism!

Hope those highly skilled CCME folk don't get penalized too bad for this, or they won't be able to contribute to society any more :(

This wasn't a give away of any kind. It was a collateralized loan, fully paid back. The Fed, and the US taxpayers (AKA citizens) PROFITED from this loan to Dexia, so I'm really not sure what you're complaining about.

thunderlips11 says

Healthcare? No Money.
Small Business Grants? No Money.
21st Century Infrastructure? No Money.

That's not the role of the Fed. It's up the the Treasury to tax or borrow for those things.

Dumb question, but do you think Sarah Palin would go for this tax?

Someone in another town where land is cheap could open a business making 50 million a year in revenue and pay the same taxes as someone making $30,000 a year with a home where the value of land is high.

That's a feature not a bug. The LVT encourages more efficient use of land, which reduces the deadloss we have now in this sector.

do you think Sarah Palin would go for this tax?

Given it's something Nader has gotten behind, no. Though the Alaska Permanent Fund is in fact entirely Georgist in conception, if not aggressive enough in collecting severance taxes that are available.

Frankly, no viable politician is going to touch this tax with a bargepole. LVT targets landowners and benefits renters. That's not the way the bread is buttered in this country.

I have been to China and I wish I knew how to do what thunderlips is doing, he's entirely correct. There is such a bubble over there and so much hanky-panky going on, on all levels. It starts from the top with giant construction projects so as to make the GDP look ever-higher. Everyone seems to be trying some scheme or other, everyone wants to get rich. Since Chinese have few investment choices, they buy apartments and Chinese stocks. Too bad it's hard to buy the A shares of Chinese stocks, I imagine there are plenty of shorting opportunities over there.

I would skip college all together and learn a trade or get an entry level govt. job and work my way up, even if I have to drive a bus or something of that kind. A college degree only makes sense if one wants to pursue healthcare.

shrekgrinch says

And why should a geny’er invest in the overly priced education for programming when it can be outsourced at a whim? It is smarter to apprentice themselves to an electrician or a plumber, if you ask me.

In part, for the same reason as why cute girls and guys flock to LA hoping to make it in movies.
Some smart youths who studied CS have become insanely wealthy very quickly, not just in .com era but (though less commonly) more recently. The average odds are not high, but there are examples that media publicizes daily. No such thing in plumbing or electrician trade.

Let's improve it (no exemptions for rich people over 60, for example) and start our own petition!

HousingWatcher says

or get an entry level govt. job and work my way up, even if I have to drive a bus or something of that kind.

How far up do you think you would work in the govt. without degree, even in better times such as until 2008 when govt. was expanding at a rapid pace?

Sad to day, but most degrees aren't worth the investment. There's no problem the right price won't solve. The cost of all types of higher education needs to come down. Undergrads shouldn't be going 100k into debt for a bachelor's. Medical students shouldn't be going another 200k into debt for their MD. There are people my age with M.D.s who are in residency. Their loans are now compounding and they probably owe close to 500k.

theoakman says

Undergrads shouldn’t be going 100k into debt for a bachelor’s. Medical students shouldn’t be going another 200k into debt for their MD. There are people my age with M.D.s who are in residency. Their loans are now compounding and they probably owe close to 500k.

A more typical number would be ~200 - 300 K, which is about 1 year income.
Would you rather have income and debt of 300 K or 40 K, even if the ratio is 1 in both cases?

"How far up do you think you would work in the govt. without degree, even in better times such as until 2008 when govt. was expanding at a rapid pace?"

There are plenty of people in govt. making $100k + without a degree. They include police officers and rail road conductors. The lowest paid employee at the Long Island Rail Road makes over $70,000.

"Some smart youths who studied CS have become insanely wealthy very quickly, not just in .com era but (though less commonly) more recently. The average odds are not high, but there are examples that media publicizes daily. No such thing in plumbing or electrician trade."

So people should study CS because there is a .000000001% chance they will become rich?

kc6zlv says

The problem I have with it is that it has the potential to allow people to pay very little in taxes based on their income. Someone in another town where land is cheap could open a business making 50 million a year in revenue and pay the same taxes as someone making $30,000 a year with a home where the value of land is high.

You're going to have a tough time attracting talented workers to your $50M/yr company in the Boondocks. If you succeed and the company is successful, the wages, and hence rental value of the land is going to go up.

And what is somebody making $30K doing living where the land value is high? If they did, they would be living in an apartment building, where the the tax is very low per person since you've got so many people on a small plot of land.

There are plenty of decent job opportunities for non college grads. This whole "go to college or you will be a failure" is propaganda put out by the higher education industry. "Go to college or wash toilets your whole life" sounds awfully similar to "Buy now or be priced out forever." In NYC, a polumber or electrician with NO COLLEGE education makes $46 an hour. How many collelge grads will ever see that pay? Not many. My father did not go to college. He got a govt. job right out of high school and he made just as much as an average college grad.

A recent study found that 40% of recent college graduates do not work in a job that requires a college degree. That's 40%.

Forget Harvard and a 4-Year Degree, You Can Make More as a Plumber in the Long Run, Says Prof. Kotlikoff

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/forget-harvard-and-a-4-year-degree-you-can-make-more-as-a-plumber-in-the-long-run-says-prof.-kotlikoff-536046.html

It's best self taught at self pace. If you need a classroom to get the material covered in the reference books. Then Programing probably isn't your Forte`.

What's important is staying current in libraries, programing platforms, frameworks, and associated languages.
Taking courses are a complete waste of time, although that doesn't necessarily mean they wont get work. HR likes to see that on resumes. Though those guys never develop the skills that the guys that stay current by subscribing to latest platforms and actually having hardware and software to set up development as well as learning labs at home. As the guys that take the class think those few hours in a class is a valid substitute for actually utilizing it hands on.

Like I told my wife when she told me I needed to go to school to get a job programming.
"No! You just need to know your shit. "

Nomograph says

Excellent advice if you want to clean toilets all your life.

Clever! Is this also a Jane Austen quote or just advice from your own experience in cleaning toilets for a living?

are you suggesting it is ok to do something based only on the fact that someone else does it?

shrekgrinch says

Anyway, what do the rest of you think?

It's a tough call. I think that anyone who is ready to spend obscene piles of money on a college education these days should do a cost-benefit analysis BEFORE they enroll. And I think it sucks that many students are obliged to assume a HUGE pile of debt for an undergraduate degree, regardless of their major.

The value of an education certainly extends beyond one's earning potential. College (at least in principle) provides an environment for students to learn how to think critically, which should make them better citizens no matter what they ultimately do for a job. However, if it costs so damn much that a person's future quality of living is seriously compromised then our system of higher education needs to change.

And finally, I don't see why there should be any stigma associated with learning and practicing a trade. Idealistic, I know. Still it seems wrong to me that a journeyman plumber or carpenter, with REAL, useful skills is considered less valuable to our society than a C+ comp sci graduate who works the register at home depot.

education system is a joke out here. It's all about passing as many students as fast through the system collecting federal dollars for the attendance. The only beneficiaries are administrators and teachers/professors who are at least rewarded with handsome salary and wonderful pensions. Everyone else is getting screwed.

For any tech degrees it's especially the biggest waste of time. curriculum is usually years behind, and these jobs do periodically get streamlined and outsourced. it's probably going to follow the same fate as machinists 50 years ago. back then that was previous generations "techies", today it's computer programmers who will eventually face the same fate.

One cool thing about college is the opportunity for learning stuff you never knew existed. You're exposed to information you might otherwise never have the chance to know. You also learn about different types of employment you might never know exist.

There are many jobs that don't require a college education, but there are many that do. While college isn't for everyone, it can be a valuable experience. I guess if a student knows what he wants to be and it involves college, it's worthwhile. If someone is just going while they try to figure things out, it's an expensive experiment.

I remember Gross telling people to stay into treasuries about 6 months ago. I knew he was exiting back then because the guy is a snake in the grass. I'm still not certain how people can be treasury bulls. The upside to them is completely limited and the downside risk is huge.

HousingWatcher says

A recent study found that 40% of recent college graduates do not work in a job that requires a college degree. That’s 40%.

That a college degree isn't required, doesn't mean that they didn't benefit from college. It doesn't even tell you whether they would have gotten the job without it (won out over other applicants even if it isn't required).

But also, since they are "recent" it must include many who took a job as a waiter, a bartender, or whatever until they get a break in their chosen field. I've had a few careers, but waitering was always my fall back job of choice. But just because I had jobs after college that didn't require a degree, doesn't mean I didn't benefit from college in a big way.

About the tech field, I think tech classes and degrees have a great value. My guess is that if you asked 100 of the highest level "architects" at major software companys whether they have a degree in computer science or whether they are glad that they do, I would bet that at least 80% would say yes on both counts.

Fisk says

theoakman says

Undergrads shouldn’t be going 100k into debt for a bachelor’s. Medical students shouldn’t be going another 200k into debt for their MD. There are people my age with M.D.s who are in residency. Their loans are now compounding and they probably owe close to 500k.

A more typical number would be ~200 - 300 K, which is about 1 year income.

Would you rather have income and debt of 300 K or 40 K, even if the ratio is 1 in both cases?

You obviously haven't looked at tuition or the loans they are making these students take out in the past 5 years. On top of it, if you think many doctors are making 300k easily these days, you haven't looked at the medical profession either. Most are lucky to escape with 300k debt minimum. Then, when they enter their residency, their loans are deferred and compounded.

Bankers, brokers and RE agents can go to work doing something that comports better with their skills and ethics like cleaning toilets with their tongues or running crystal meth labs or giving $2 blowjobs to truckers at rest stops or planting potatoes.

You forgot to add being crazy cat ladies. That comports with my skills and ethics.

Good God people!!!!

The ONLY redeeming thing about California right now is a reasonable property tax rate. Now the "progressives" want to redistribute that wealth as well. Typical liberal California politics here.

It is similar to the obscene electric rate structure in California. The more you use the higher the rate. I moved from MN to CA and I was astounded when I got my first electric bill. The rate is SIX TIMES (PG and E rates) more than what I paid in MN. But in California Energy Commision's infinite wisdom I have to pay this rate because I use more electricity, so according to them I must be rich. I don't think living in a 1400 square foot home should be considered "rich".

I fear this initiaitve is similarly structured. Who makes the determination of what "rental value" is? What is highest and best use? And now they want to pry into more of my personal business? (the initiative requires mandatory reporting of all leases and their terms to the government). The government is already way too intrusive. The last thing we need is more bueracratic red tape.

Califorina is already the HIGHEST taxed state in the nation. Not to mention our energy costs (gas AND electricity) are also the HIGHEST IN THE NATION.

How about they actually cut spending and get rid of the 1,000's of useless agencies imposing the onerous regulations (in most cases some form of wealth redistribution) that are diving businesses out of this state.

People buy bonds for income.

Most doctors are certainly not making anywhere near $300k. I have several doctors in my family. One owns his own practice and does not make much more than a nurse.

"As you can see, unemployment for non-college grads is much, much higher than for college grads."

How many of those employed college grads are working at Wal Mart or other minimum wage jobs? I bet it's a lot. I have a bachelors degree and have NEVER worked in a job that requires the degree. Not once. I regret getting my degree.

"On my block there are at least four people that went to Ivy League schools,"

They are outliers. The overwhelming majority of Americans will never step foot into an Ivy League school. Saying that college is a good investment by pointing to your Ivy League neighbors does not prove anything.

"At the PhD level, you can expect to earn 4X the amount."

Earn 4X the amount WHERE? The overwhelming majority of PhDs can't get a faculty job to save their life. For isntance, for those with science related PhDs, only 25% of them will land a faculty job. Only 25%. And they will only get those faculty jobs after doing years and years of low paying post-doc work. Yes, PhDs with faculty jobs make good money. But you are then excluding the thousands of PhDs who could not land such a position and are either unemployed or stuck teaching in dead end adjunct positions that pay less than the salary of a santiation worker.

So you think running crystal meth labs is legal if a realtor does it? LOL.

That's nonsense. How can a company tell if someone is pessimistic or not when the only info they have about them is their resume? You think a pessimistic person is goig to be dumb enough and display their pessimism during an interview?

In many cases, getting a college degree can actually make someone worse off. I like this article that was recently published by the NY Times about law school. Pretty much disproves the propaganda that more education = more money.

Is Law School a Losing Game?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/business/09law.html

Key part of the article:

"He spent it on a law degree. And from every angle, this now looks like a catastrophic investment."

Nomograph says

I live in La Jolla, which is a somewhat upscale seaside community in San Diego. On my block there are at least four people that went to Ivy League schools, and everyone else has at least a bachelors degree from a good university. I’ve never met a single plumber who lives in my town.

Yeah, all those dirty blue-collar types must be living under bridges and making ends meet by feeding their families cat food. Let them eat cake!

Nomograph says

Stick with spreading nuclear fallout hysteria and anti-education rants. Let me know how it works out for you.

No no, nomo. Wrong guy. This was the line of personal attack you were using on ME in earlier threads. But hey, since you live in an upscale neighborhood there's clearly no need to tell us little people apart.

jerrypap says

The last thing we need is more bueracratic red tape.

Maybe you didn't read the proposal? It would completely eliminate California income tax and sales tax!

That alone would eliminate vast amounts of red tape. And the property tax infrastructure already exists, so no new red tape there. Reporting leases is pretty easy.

How do you know there are no blue collar people in your upcale neighborhood? I would be willing to bet you that there are retired boomers in your area who once had blue collar jobs. Maybe there are some police officers in your area. But to say there are no blue collar workers at all is absurd. Every area has them. From what I see, older peopel are far more likely to have a blue collar job thatn a younger person is. Most white collar workers had at least 1 parent who had a blue collar job.

Yeah, most plumbers and electricians are not rich. I never argued that. But those who own their own plumbing or electrical businesses are making VERY good money... even the smaller ones.

HousingWatcher says

Yeah, most plumbers and electricians are not rich. I never argued that. But those who own their own plumbing or electrical businesses are making VERY good money… even the smaller ones.

And does one need to be rich to have a good and fulfilling life? No.