patrick.net

shrekgrinch says

Sorry, but there’s a difference between the government FORCIBLY taking money from one group and directly giving it to another vs. non-government entities engaging in voluntary associations that redistribute wealth. The fact that you can’t recognize that show just how much of a communist you are in attitudes.

I don't know what you're talking about here, the money that was given to the banks or your interpetation of the current proposal. I certainly recognize the former is a direct fit for the definition you're trying to give.

Who gives a toss about political definitions? Only people who think that dropping a loaded word can influence a discussion... I'm all for stopping the disgusting looting thats currently the hallmark of the recent US systems, you call it what you want but it bears no more relation to me than if you called me superman.

But what do you call a person who favors the continued looting of the US populace so that bankers and corporations can claim higher and higher profits? Look in the mirror and get back to us with your interpetation.

shrekgrinch says

It does not matter. What matters is how much of a third party spoiler he’ll end up being and in what states, period.

Of course. And if he runs as an Independent in the general election, it would be the best thing possible for Obama. I guarantee you that he is hoping beyone hope that Trump is a 3rd party candidate. If Trump spoils anything, it will be the Republican candidate.

Your belief that Trump will be the "Nader" of this election, causing independents who would otherwise vote Obama to desert, is highly speculative and unlikely.

I believe you should get out there and give 110% to the billionaire though and prove me wrong. Are you already on his campaign staff?

To all my friends who are sitting on the Fence and are looking in Cambrian.

( Insider info)
This is one heck of a home,

http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Jose/15111-Stratford-Dr-95124/home/1333989

This guy has spent money on the home like anything

cloud13 says

This is one heck of a home,

http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Jose/15111-Stratford-Dr-95124/home/1333989

This guy has spent money on the home like anything

Wait, wait, wait... overhead can lights, wall-to-wall carpet, AND vinyl blinds?! This is one classy joint.

terriDeaner says

I suspect they are only including the list prices of homes that have actually sold, not the list prices of all homes for sale.

Yeah, you are probably right. My comment seems pretty silly. Another thing that seems odd to me is that the numbers below the chart sold $/SF do not match the chart that I am looking at. What other issues are you seeing on Redfin?

Realtors don't really change their profession, just the location. I can see it now...

Agent Occupied:
Prime real estate in Cell Block D, overlooking to the common area which leads to greenbelt. Spacious double occupancy unit with attached bath, cement floors throughout. First in line for in-home meal service, 24-hour security provided at no additional charge.

Serious inquiries only.

Trump is a far more entertaining character than Perot. Ross never had photo-ops like this:

YesYNot says

Yeah, you are probably right. My comment seems pretty silly.

Not at all - I made the same mistake the first time I tried to reconcile their reported sale-to-list price numbers with the charts.

YesYNot says

Another thing that seems odd to me is that the numbers below the chart sold $/SF do not match the chart that I am looking at.

I am starting to believe that their charts are misleading. I don't think it is something that redfin is doing deliberately, in contrast to how the NAR exploited their sloppy algo/model to calculate sales figures. (edit) Maybe they have a systematic problem with data display???

YesYNot says

What other issues are you seeing on Redfin?

One thing I have noticed is that the # of results (i.e., listings for sale) displayed on the map page doesn't always match up with the # for sale on the charts. For instance, if you search for 'Santa Clara' county, the map shows 3730 results, but if you check the chart it shows 3030 listings for sale. The chart seems to be a couple of days behind the map (I think), so this could be part of the problem, and if you limit the search parameters (say, houses only) the discrepancy is quite not so blatant. Issues like this make it difficult for me to put much stock in redfin-based trends, however.

APOCALYPSEFUCK says

Robinson is facing a sentence of 30 years in prison and a fine of $1 million dollars when she is sentenced by Chief United States District Judge James R Spencer on July 31, 2011.

PLEASE tell me you'll post the follow-up to this!

terriDeaner says

Wait, wait, wait… overhead can lights, wall-to-wall carpet, AND vinyl blinds?! This is one classy joint.

ha ha ha.

terriDeaner says

I am starting to believe that their charts are misleading. I don’t think it is something that redfin is doing deliberately, in contrast to how the NAR used a sloppy algo/model to calculate their sales figures. Maybe they have a systematic problem with data display???

Thats the problem with Web 2.0 companies trying copy traditional companies that have matured, real estate, insurance, and other finance products. You have people 3-7 years out of school, with not much experience in the field.

16 different fraudulent real estate loans in amounts totaling $2.4 million

of the 16 known at 6% commission assume no down comes to $144K comp.

-----------------------------------------

The scheme involved four overlapping parts.

In some transactions, where Robinson was simply the real estate agent, she and her accomplices would misrepresent a borrower's employment status and overstate monthly employment income, so the person would qualify for a loan, court records show.

The second part of the scheme involved transactions in which Robinson was not only the agent but also was buying and selling properties she rented. She secretly used people who wouldn't qualify for mortgage loans to buy the properties.

The mortgage loan applications were fraudulent on several levels, according to court records.

The applications did not disclose Robinson as having any interest in the deal. Also, financial information was falsified to enhance the buyers' creditworthiness, court records show.

Another part of the scheme involved HUD's rental voucher program for needy people.

Robinson applied to HUD so that properties she controlled could qualify for HUD's subsidized rental program. She falsely represented that she was the owner of the properties, records show. HUD rental subsidies were sent to Robinson, who used the money to make monthly mortgage payments.

To make more money on rental properties, Robinson would "sell" properties at higher prices to the unqualified buyers who would fraudulently obtain higher mortgage loans, according to the criminal report.

Some "buyers" supposedly worked at Prestige Limousine Service in Henrico County, court documents show. Prestige was owned by Robinson's father but controlled by her.

Robinson prepared documents showing one particular "borrower" supposedly earned $4,765 a month as a limousine driver, so the person could quality to buy a $159,000 house in 2006. The person actually had total income of $7,800 that year, according to court records.

Robinson would obtain access to the proceeds of the new loan, records show.

The case was investigated by HUD's Office of the Inspector General, the U.S. Postal Inspection Service and the FBI, Richmond Division. Assistant U.S. Attorney David T. Maguire is prosecuting the case.

elliemae says

Realtors don’t really change their profession, just the location. I can see it now…

They're like priests. If they are caught with their hands down victims' pants, they're simply shuffled around. NAr ensures that the barrier to entry remains as low as possible. More profits result from having millions of little realtors running around telling people "BUY BUY BUY".

Perhaps when this agent leaves the can she'll get a nice corporate gig at NAr, become their spokesperson, etc.

While this realtor won't get the maximum (I suspect a plea and 5 years, the fine will likely stand), good to see they caught her.

However, how can buyers be so stupid as to try and buy something they can oh-so barely afford? Or in this case, not even close to being able to afford it? A buyer should know how much they make, how much they spend, and what falls into their price range.

Realtors, by definition, will do everything in their power to get you to buy something whether you can afford it or not.

elliemae says

Realtors don’t really change their profession, just the location. I can see it now…
Agent Occupied:

Prime real estate in Cell Block D, overlooking to the common area which leads to greenbelt. Spacious double occupancy unit with attached bath, cement floors throughout. First in line for in-home meal service, 24-hour security provided at no additional charge.
Serious inquiries only.

"A spacious 1/4 bathroom. We also have 8 offers already on the table, bid high or be priced out forever."

thomas.wong1986 says

terriDeaner says

I am starting to believe that their charts are misleading. I don’t think it is something that redfin is doing deliberately, in contrast to how the NAR used a sloppy algo/model to calculate their sales figures. Maybe they have a systematic problem with data display???

Thats the problem with Web 2.0 companies trying copy traditional companies that have matured, real estate, insurance, and other finance products. You have people 3-7 years out of school, with not much experience in the field.

like apple (iphone case disconnecting calls), microsoft(windows blue screen of death, xbox 360 red-ring-of-death), or even intel (floating point calculation errors in their processors) haven't had massive bugs in their products.

redfin has bugs because their software is new and they are constantly adding features.
any company young or old, if they release a **NEW** product, will have tons of bugs at time of release.

shrekgrinch says

FACT: That means that the fact that Trump is getting all this attention and support means people are pissed off at Obama, not the Republican ‘candidate’ who hasn’t even been defined yet.

Actually that is not a fact. You need a primer on the definition of fact. What it means is that there is no serious Republican candidate that appeals to the "real" conservatives so they are grasping at straws now. Nobody who supports Trump would have ever voted for Obama. Let me repeat that: Nobody who supports Trump would have voted for Obama.

shrekgrinch says

FACT: Where Trump will hurt Obama will be in New York State. That’s all Trump has to do to cost Obama the entire election. No Dem can win the presidency and do so by still losing an electoral college votes rich blue state or even any such state that is swing state like Florida.

HAHAHAHAHA Again--Trump will not steal Obama voters. He will, however, take votes away from Romney or Crist or Pawlenty.

Really--you honestly think Obama voters are going to go for a birther?

Troy says

Private credit peaked at $1.2T/yr 1999-2001, took a mild breather down to $1T/yr during the First Bush Recession, and then zoomed up to $2T/yr immediately prior to the 2nd Bush Recession.

Wow. Bushie was able to force the country into a recession within months of taking office. Calling the 2001 recession the "First Bush Recession" is disingenuous. It would be more partisan-accurate to call it Clinton's parting gift to Bush. If you really want to be serious, though, it was the bursting of the dotcom bubble (which actually happened months prior under Clinton's watch) and really wasn't caused by either one of them.

Opinions are worthless but here is mine:

The real crime is the feds giving low/zero downpayment loans by the trillions.

If we only had 20% down payment (NO MATTER WHAT, no HUD/CAL hfa, etc) Then mortgage fraud would be so difficult and rare you wouldnt hear about it (even with loan guarantees by the feds, 20% would cure 95% of fraud IMO)

With low/zero down you get every crook in the world gaming the system, have to hire more governmemt agents, more auditors, more prisons, the losses are higher so you print more money and bailout more banks. Prison guard unions and police/federal workers LOVE this system. Basically this situation is the Democrats Dreamland of Nanny Stateism.

Loan Mods for everyone!(who are able to fake thier income down to what the rules say a loan mod will alow....etc) Please everyone : Dont forget to get a loan mod between jobs or while you are on medical/pregnancy leave!(free gov money!). Im serious.

terriDeaner says

cloud13 says

This is one heck of a home,
http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Jose/15111-Stratford-Dr-95124/home/1333989
This guy has spent money on the home like anything

Wait, wait, wait… overhead can lights, wall-to-wall carpet, AND vinyl blinds?! This is one classy joint.

Heh, ha, splurt, hahahaha! I'll never understand some of the people around here. $725k?!!? And cloud13 thinks that's a heck of a home (and a good price, I assume)?? Look at the front door - it fills the full height of the building to the roof line. I'm not even 6' and I would practically bump my head on the porch. When that was built, it was a little blue collar shack. A 1948 blue collar shack. So somebody dumped a bunch of high end fixtures and can lights into a crackerbox. And a hot tub and a high-end grill.

Wow. Just wow. Buy now! Insider info! A steal!!

With 20% ($145,000 of cold hard cash) your payment (not counting taxes and insurance) is "only". $3,069. I rented something better in the same area a few years ago for $1950 and I felt I was overpaying.

Ridiculous.

Syphilis says

redfin has bugs because their software is new and they are constantly adding features.
any company young or old, if they release a **NEW** product, will have tons of bugs at time of release.

Still, it sucks that redfin is proving to be a not-so-reliable source of data. I like how their website works relative to most other MLS-based real estate portals. And I *thought* that their software for data curation and summary statistic calculation provided more accurate/believable estimates than Zillow or Trulia. Alas!

That said, MLS data is MLS data, after all...

EightBall says

Calling the 2001 recession the “First Bush Recession” is disingenuous.

How so? There were two recessions during Bush's 8 years, one in 2001-2002 and one in 2007-2009.

Is there anywhere in my above I said Bush was responsible for the first Bush Recession? It would take a really stupid person to make the inference that the business cycle ending in March 2001 was Bush's doing.

Defensive much? Bush that much of a heroman to you still?

Nah, he's not my hero. I guess by your definition you can call it the "First Bush Recession" but when you say it that way it implies that he was responsible. If I said something that included "The Obama Recession" I'd get the same reaction from someone else. I tend to get picky with the meaning behind words and when you use someone's name as a possessive adjective it implies ownership. After the partisan rant that you went on, it is difficult not to infer that your statement was implying that he was responsible. Pardon my misinterpretation, if you please.

I don't like Bush or Clinton - for different reasons. They are both pathetic in their own special way ;)

Syphilis says

redfin has bugs because their software is new and they are constantly adding features.
any company young or old, if they release a **NEW** product, will have tons of bugs at time of release.

I would compare web 2.0 upstarts like zillow/redfin to dqnews, a more established firm. Pretty sure DQ has more roll up the sleeve analysis and not just pushing data to their websites. Since DQ sells this data to other parties, their bread and butter, they take more effort to review the data for accuracy and summarize the findings, as evidenced by their lengthy narratives. For the web 2.0 companies the estimates are not what drives their revenue, and put less effort on accuracy.

RFs software isnt new, nor off the self, its most likely their rushed and immature programming. Throwing out a project to a 5 year inexperienced programmer to create analytics, is what causes problems many times over. Guess we will have to wait for version 5.0 for them to get it finally right.

thomas.wong1986 says

Pretty sure DQ has more roll up the sleeve analysis and not just pushing data to their websites. Since DQ sells this data to other parties, their bread and butter, they take more effort to review the data for accuracy and summarize the findings, as evidenced by their lengthy narratives.

How do you feel about CoreLogic?

EightBall says

After the partisan rant that you went on, it is difficult not to infer that your statement was implying that he was responsible.

Only if you're a moron and/or didn't know that the recession started March 2001.

The underlying reality of this -- and it isn't "partisan" to point it out -- is that every Republican-initiative 1995-2005 was responsible for the bubble and its eventual collapse.

Clinton and other conservative Democrats signed on, or failed to adequately oppose, much of it -- the repeal of Glass-Steagall, the failure to regulate the GSEs and their various accounting frauds, the increasing availability of easy-money loans (2001-2005), including subprime and other initiatives to get more money to home buyers, the effective deregulation of lending starting in 2003, and the SEC and Fed allowing leverage to increase to 30:1 or more.

The Republicans -- conservative Republicans -- were running the House 1995-2006, conservatives -- both Democrat and Republican, but mostly Republican -- controlled the Senate during this time, conservatives controlled the courts, and of course the Bush admin was in power 2001-2008.

That you think these facts constitute a "rant" is major part of the problem in this country. The people who fucked up everything 1995-2005 -- conservatives -- are now trying their best to deny, obfuscate, and bullshit.

And it will probably work. . .

no idea...but here is who they are wiki... TRW certainly was well known back in the day.

History

The company known today as CoreLogic, Inc. dates back to 1991, when TRW Real Estate Information Services entered into a partnership with three real estate information service units from Elsevier, a Dutch publishing company.[3] In 1996, the group, by then known as TRW Information Systems & Services, was spun off and renamed Experian.[4]

In 1997, majority ownership of Experian's real estate information business was acquired by The First American Corporation, in a partnership with Experian. The partnership was called FARES LLC, and the new entity began operating under the name First American Real Estate Solutions (RES). In 2001, the group acquired Transamerica's property information business, becoming the largest real estate information and analytics provider in North America.[5]

Kraig Clark and Steve Schroeder co-founded C&S Marketing in 1997 in Sacramento, CA. Created to provide fraud prevention and collateral risk management solutions to the mortgage banking industry, the company was later renamed as CoreLogic.[6]

In March 2007, First American Corporation merged its First American RES subsidiary with CoreLogic, under the FARES LLC subsidiary.[7] The division began operating under the name First American CoreLogic.

In June 2010, CoreLogic, Inc. was established as a standalone business when The First American Corporation split its businesses to create two separate legal entities, CoreLogic, Inc and First American Corporation (NYSE: FAF) which provides title and financial services.[8]

Troy says

There were two recessions during Bush’s 8 years, one in 2001-2002

I am not a Bush fan in any way, but, as I recall, there was something that happened on 9/11/2001. Did that have anything to do with this recession?

RayAmerica says

I am not a Bush fan in any way, but, as I recall, there was something that happened on 9/11/2001. Did that have anything to do with this recession?

On an anecdotal level, my stocks were in the tank and I was out of a job before Twin Towers fell.

September 11th just gave the financial people a justification to have all regulators look even harder the other way. It was in national security interests. Because letting bankers run wild would give us plenty of money to fight multiple wars. Or something like that. The increasing heroin injections of Greenspan & Friends seemed to be helping.... for a while.... You know what you need to do America? Go shopping. Buy more & bigger everything, it's your patriotic duty.

Also are we talking about the "rich" as those with high incomes or with "high" (often inherited) net worth?

I believe that the lines of class warfare are different from what most people perceive...
On one side there are those with net worths of $5,000,000 or less and on the other those with high net worths (mainly because of inherited wealth). I would like to look into that more.

as I recall, there was something that happened on 9/11/2001. Did that have anything to do with this recession?

yes and no. The business/credit cycle ran pretty "rich" 1995-2000, but there was a lot of flim-flam and Enron/Worldcom misinvestment that was starting to come to light after the NASDAQ tanked in March 2000. Enron blew up right after 9/11.

The Fed Funds rate was dropped once Bush was elected and before 9/11:

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=cP

and rates were held low right through most of 2004, after we had already won the war in Afghanistan.

I think the Iraq war had more to do with the overall macro situation and the PTB in 2003 not wanting to put monetary stress on the nation when we were entering both a major war of liberation and a presidential election cycle.

Here's a 25-year (log-scale) chart of corporate borrowing:

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=cT

you can see the 2000-2004 topping out was similar to the 1989-1994 topping out.

The 2008 borrowing recession came in half the time and lasted half the time of the previous recessions.

Corporate borrowing was very big in the 90s, but wasn't the pulling the train in the 2000s . . .

Same chart of household borrowing:

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=cU

shows household debt doubling between the tech recession of 2001 and the "subprime" recession of 2008.

Janky home lending 2003-2007 gave us the boom, and it gave us the bust. Bin Laden had nothing to do with it unless he was moonlighting as a loan broker.

We're trying to pretend that we've dusted ourselves off from this unfortunate business, but I have my doubts . . .

From digby today:

"this should be a really fun campaign if the Village openly buys into the idea that any defense of the social compact amounts to class warfare. But why wouldn't that be so --- TV announcers are among the highest paid people in the country. The last thing they want to talk about is some dull tale of a bunch of old losers and their health problems. Let's face it, this story of people being tossed out of their homes and Wall Street billionaires committing fraud and getting away with it and all this nonsense about the rich swallowing more and more of the nation's wealth for themselves is tiresome and old hat. We've heard it all before, ok, so let's move on shall we?

The new, exciting story is about how we have to slash the deficit as quickly as humanly possible by cutting spending and cutting taxes because it is the single greatest threat to America since the founding of the nation (or at least since terrorism got boring -- the last greatest threat since the founding of the nation.)And folks, everyone knows we won't get there by blaming our most productive citizens. They need to create some low paying jobs for us and taunting them about their selfishness will only make them leave New York and Washington DC and move to Beijing or Calcutta and create them there. We're hanging on to our billionaires by our fingernails and if we aren't careful we won't have any. "

a million vacant houses, CA is going nowhere.

kentm says digby says

slash the deficit as quickly as humanly possible by cutting spending and cutting taxes

Another genius who thinks lowering taxes to zero, will take government tax revenues to infinity.

This guy need to read Laffer, and then explain how he concludes that taxes are still above the level that would generate maximum revenues.

AAPL PE is 18, not 80. This stock is perhaps expensive, and perhaps worth it, like their products.
I don't know how bad the stock market is but since I began in 84 with bond funds and moved in 91 to stock funds I see less of a problem in my accounts. Others who bought later may have different results.
All of Thunderlips points can be 100% correct and the market may still climb a "wall of worry" with "irrational exhuberance" because it's an auction and funny things can happen in them.
Although things may stink around the world, countries will continue to develop, build roads, grow food, use products, energy and drugs, and whatnot. Even in a poor country you'll see Caterpillar, Coke, Abercrombie, Apple, Walmart, Merck, Toyota, Deere, etc.
If I had a bunch of new money to invest, I would probably buy a metal ETF, gold or silver, aapl, and some giant dividend paying stocks.

For the record, the majority of my investment is mutual funds. I fantasize about having "new money", i.e. "extra income" and investing it differently. If I were looking for huge dividend paying stocks I would probably still use a mutual fund for the purpose.

Nomograph says

Conservatives self-destruct before even getting out of the starting gate.

The overlords have already decided it will definitely be Obama again. Where does the Donald get his marching orders ?

Shirk, would a diagram be helpful ?

I'm starting to understand how Shrekgrinch is a conservative. In shrek's world, Obama voters are angry at the President for not being liberal enough so they are going to vote...TRUMP. Obama released a forged birth certificate to the world despite possibly being born...in the United States.

The twists and turn of logic used to justify Shrek's Birtherism Lite are astounding. (Birtherism Lite is when you take the Palin position of "believing" the President while suggesting that he is completely lying about his own birth story and perhaps ineligible to be President).

kentm says digby says

We’re hanging on to our billionaires by our fingernails and if we aren’t careful we won’t have any. “

So let me get this straight. After centuries of having countless youth giving their lives for this country, billionaires are going to just pack up and leave because they pay a little more in taxes or because this country isn't going to drop to being underpaid slave labor so that we can compete better ?

If his answer is, "no, I just meant that I want them to invest here instead of over there." Don't kid yourself, they are already investing in developing countries as much as they can, relative to risk.