patrick.net

swebb says

Do I think that homeowners (better citizens or not) should be given tax incentives…probably not. But I do think that, in general, they make for a better, more stable community. I may not be aware of my assumptions and biases, but it seems obvious to me.

I'm sure a lot of people think the same thing about immigrants and ethnic minorities. Prejudices do not justify discrimination.

This renter-versus-owner class division is just another NAR propaganda item to make homeowners feel superior. It is not tangible or credible, but it is self-perpetuating.

"Why does person X get special tax reductions while person Y does not?"

"X is a better individual. This will incentivize Y to be like X."

"That sounds like social engineering. What does Y need to do to become like X?"

"Y needs to enslave himself to a 30-year debt obligation. Then he gets the same benefits as X, and is automatically a better person."

"How exactly does that make Y a better person?"

"He'll mow his lawn more often, have more money since the govt is bribing him, and will enjoy the self-perception of being in a higher class than person Z."

ChrisLA says

Fear and greed are the biggest motivators in life, if not only.

That is ridiculous. Why do I spend time trying to improve my golf game? I'm definitely never going to make any money playing (save the $5 skins)... And fear doesn't seem to be appropriate.

So, which is it?

ChrisLA says

Fear and greed are the biggest motivators in life, if not only.

Speak for yourself buddy. Most people's daily lives are not those of a manic-depressive sociopath.

ChrisLA says

Fear and greed are the biggest motivators in life

Sorry to hear those are your main motivators. That does not sound emotionally healthy. For a lot of folks, if not most, they are highly motivated by a doing things that give them a sense self-worth and importance, being a valued member of a group, and recognitions from others.

shrekgrinch says

tatupu70 says

Nope–he just posted your quotes. If quoting you is a fast one, what does that say about your posts

Out of context, yeah…I can see how you defend that, Tatoo. That’s all your side has left anymore.
bob2356 says

Which article and section would that be? Post the section.

I already did: “Epic Fail: Arizona Gov Vetoes Birther Bill”
Not only do many people on here have a severe reading comprehension problem…but they just don’t plain read, either.

There is no citation from the constitution in "epic fail". WTF are you babbling about? Repost it if it's there, you know how to cut and paste. How come every time the "many people here" ask you to backup some BS you spout with actual facts the only response you can ever come up with is that they have a severe reading comprehension problem?

shrekgrinch says

This has nothing to do with the…or ANY…constitution, Mr. Clueless.

Oh, nice.

According to you the Constitution "says the States have the authority to vet presidential, vice-presidential, senatorial and representative candidates to qualify them as the Constitution declares them that they have to be", bob2356 asks you where, and then you declare this has nothing to do with the Constitution!

I thought your Carter even-odd gas rationing post was funny, but I think I like this one even better.

marcus says

This morning I made a comment that ChrisLa said proved something about me, or maybe it proved something about unions? I was thinkng… one comment of opinion on a forum can’t prove anything, right?
But then again…
ChrisLA says

Unlike you buddy, I’m making it well in the private sector, and my mathematics are far beyond your basic high school math. I don’t need to lose all my dignity and become a union man like someone utterly incapable of making it on their own.

wow

Like whut Marcus said... wow.

I do realize that Marcus is able to defend himself (and did so quite eloquently in a subsequent email). However, I'd like to throw in a comment, or two...

Marcus has stated over & over that he is a teacher. He is passionate about his profession and defends his choice to leave the private sector and spend his days teaching math to high school students.

Ain't no lost dignity in that - in fact, he's to be admired. He's certainly not doing it for the money... and that he belongs to a union is secondary to his chosen profession. I doubt that anyone attending college with the goal of being a teacher says to himself, "When I graduate I'll get to join a union!" It's part of the package.

While I'm on the fence about unions, having had both good & bad experiences with them, I have no problem with Marcus joining a union and don't think any less of him.

I realize that you (Chris) and Marcus are having a discussion - but it's a free-for-all because it's not an exchange of private messages. So I'm popping in here and saying that your toe was just over the line on that one. Attack Marcus' grammar (sometimes it's lacking), attack his positions on issues - but please don't attack his choice of profession as somehow lacking because he's not in the private sector...

...ain't many teachers in the private sector, Chris. Unless you feel like quitting your job and taking his for a test drive, please don't disparage his choices. We need more qualified teachers, not less.

And I'm not sure what this has to do with Trump, Obama's birth certificate or the price of tea in China. This thread is wierd.

Personally I don't care where he was born. What I don't like about him is his blind desire to soak those who make money and redistribute wealth.

That whole "lets raise taxes" on the arbitrary 250,000 bracket did not sit well with me. Because it will be like the 70's, one day inflation will catch up and everyone will be paying high taxes while the tax brackets will not be adjusted for it. I'm already paying 40~% in taxes. No way I'm voting for paying 3% more to the government that will spend it on their closest friends and ask for more later. (In Washington DC desires for other peoples money by lobbyists are limitless)

Obamas entire appeal to the masses by saying "I'll take 3% more from those who make bit more money and [supposedly] give it to you." was disgusting.

shrekgrinch says

bob2356 says

There is no citation from the constitution in “epic fail”. WTF are you babbling about? Repost it if it’s there, you know how to cut and paste.

OMG…you STILL have no clue. I mean, really.
This has nothing to do with the…or ANY…constitution, Mr. Clueless.
bob2356 says

is that they have a severe reading comprehension problem?

Uh…because they DO…and YOU just proved it…a perfect example!

Since you can't even begin to remember what you were talking about you should really consider joining an Alzheimer's support group. It's ok to forget where you put the keys, it's when you don't remember what the keys are for that you have a problem.

Maybe you should consider the possibility that if "everyone" seems to have a reading comprehension problem with your writing, especially since "everyone" can understand the rest of the posters, you might actually be the problem.

robertoaribas says

which probably means alot of immigration, something the very same right wing idiotic zealots are dead set against] to get out of this mess.

By "immigration" are you referring to legal or illegal?

and the economy will have to grow. [which probably means alot of immigration

? I disagree with this. We have to put the people we already have here to work, not bring new workers in.

Wow, these guys never give up. Now Karl Denninger, who used to get some play on the pat.net front page has taken up the Afterbirther cause:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eOfYwYyS_c

yeah, KD is off the deep end on this one.

To be scientific he needs to get another copy of a known good birth certificate before spouting off like that.

Though some of the numbers do look suspicious in the official scan. We don't know the path this scan took, clearly it's some weird copy from a book or something. The original bc's were probably microfiched when the system went digital and the actual original paper copy probably no longer exists.

ChrisLA says

straw-man much?

Chris--I suggest reading the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

I don't think you understand what a straw man argument is...

I find that article containing some element of truth, however a one sided and conflates conservatism with birthism and other random traits making this article innacurate, although intentions may have been good it is difficult to see much past the bashing of Republicans and attributing them with traits that are present elsewhere.

To me the last 10 years have been more of an identity crisis for America. Political narrative out in attempt to form a certain national identity created an idiosyncratic approach to facts by both sides. A policy was turned into a symbol of nationalism, making intelligent debate practically impossible. Supported ideas became welcomed and accepted by a side and simply dismissed when in disagreement. This over years has created a misconstrued reality. Policy is often no longer based on the merit, but on its symbolism, the triumph of ideology and demagoguery.

When the ultra left constantly bashes private enterprise with ideology that unions and healthcare for the poor are a symbol of great society, when ultra right demagogues that we are at war with the muslims because of our core values and not our over expanded military, thats when we get ourselves into deep shit.

Meanwhile, today was Orly's day in court again, to refocus your party on what it cares about most.

Man, she looks really serious this time. Got all her ducks in a row, like nothing's going to stop her! She's even got a fresh fraudulent birth certificate, with all kinds of suspicious "layers" to bring to the bench.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-birthers-20110503,0,3922827.story

Go Orly!

shrekgrinch says

As for statements signed by Hawaiian officials — all Democratic operatives since Hawaii is a one-party state — it made perfect sense for non-Democrats to not exactly take their word for it.

Wrong again. At least verify your facts before you spout them.

shrekgrinch says

Bush caused 9/11! Bush is responsible for EVERYTHING wrong with this country! Bush is hiding Bin Laden in some cell to bring out during an October Surprise! Cheney had Halliburton get a contract laying roads in Iraq that uses the bones of Iraqi children as filler in the concrete to save money!

Or how about my personal favorite of the WHACKIEST kind of shit that ever came out of the mouth of a Democrat, ladies and gentlemen I present to you….Peggy Joseph!

What the hell? i've never even heard of most of this.

Republicans the the other hand, what was it? Like 40% don't think Obama was born in the United States?

You can't comare 40% to a couple lunatic fringe individuals, and expect to be taken seriously.

The More Obama adheres the Bush doctrine, the more you guys Love him.
Who you calling Republican?

I bet the price is about in line with rent now. Any idea what that house would rent for?

shrekgrinch says

Hell, Hawaii is more of a one-party Dem state even more than New Jersey is

I lived in NJ when it had a republican gov and statehouse. Where you even aware that NJ currently has a Repub gov. How could that be in a one party dem state? Do you ever look at any kind of facts or simply live in your own alternate reality?

shrekgrinch says

And what did you think of Peggy Joseph? That’s totally real

Who cares? I don't. She's just a lone nut. And somehow you think my being unaware of her "proves that you live in some alternate world that is not related to reality"

Seriously?

Like I said, you can't compare that to 40% of Republicans believing Obama wasn't born in the United States to this.

Show me that 40% of Democrats believe Obama is going to pay for their gas, and then you've got something. But right now all you're doing is making a completely absurd argument.

Ok Shrecky poo. Here you go:

shrekgrinch says

I didn’t see any of those Hawaiian officials signing sworn affidavits, did you?

http://hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2008/08-93.pdf

shrekgrinch says

What am I wrong about? Please prove that I am wrong by providing details. Is and hasn’t Hawaii been under the control of the Democratic party since even before statehood: true or false?

Have you heard of Hawaii Governor Linda Lingle? Obviously not. I guess Governors don't count in your fantasy world...

Seriously--you don't even know what party the Gov. is?? If you had any credibility at all, it's now gone...

Right, we argue about inconsequential details until we all throw our hands up disgust and go home. And the fact that the discussion has never moved forward and has been caught in a morass of sargasso confusion is just fine to the folks who dislike the original point.

Seriously, all of you: Quit goofing off and get back to work!

I hereby dub thee DEATHERS.

Are Glenn Beck and Orly Taitz on this?

There are people who believe Paul McCartney died a long time ago, I'm not sure what to call them.

That's it. I'm going to start selling tin foil hats. I'll make a fortune around here.

Dammit, Vicente, you beat me to it. I'm sure at some point Shrek will explain that he's not a deather, but the circumstances are suspicious, and there are valid questions that need to be answered.

Sorry, no long form just the short one:

I dunno man, I heard there was a farmer that died the day BEFORE Bin Laden, and yet his certificate number ended in 017802.

shrekgrinch says

The question is did he die of kidney failure in 2003 like the US Military and various intelligence agencies believed or was he really killed the other day?

I'm sorry which "US military" and agency pronouncements of death do you refer to?

Here's your hat, hope it'll suffice until the stylish Simchaland line of hats come out.

shrekgrinch says

So they had the occasional Rep governor. California just had one before Jerry Brown. Big deal.

Oh Shrekie, Shrekkie, Shrekkie. It is a big deal if you care about the truth. Obviously it's not important in your fantasy land...

shrekgrinch says

Oh Tatu! What part of the term ’sworn affidavits’ do you not understand? That press release is not a sworn affidavit.

Yes, excellent point. Because that press release doesn't sound anything like a sworn affadavit at all, does it.

It cracks me up that you complain that everyone has poor reading comprehension skills. Maybe if you stopped the outright lies, people would have an easier time understanding you...

shrekgrinch says

So they had the occasional Rep governor. California just had one before Jerry Brown. Big deal.

Wow, this quote is special... Do you really believe the stuff you write?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_California

I count no less than 13 Republican Governors since 1900 for California.

There were only 5 Democratic Governors since 1900 for California (and that's counting Jerry Brown twice!).

Oh and there was that one Republican that changed parties to become a progressive whom I didn't count in the 13 Republican Governors since 1900 for California.

So, just so you know, these are facts. Your assertion that there was only 1 Republican Governor before Jerry Brown is a belief. Do you get it now?

And another interesting fact is that there were only 15 California Democratic Governors since the founding of the state (including 2 Lecompton Democrats) compared with 20 California Republican Governors since the founding of the state (not including the 1 Unionist Republican). So, what say you?

16% of Americans are brain dead and 30% of Republicans might as well be slugs.

16% may not seem as much but that's 1 out of 6 people.

shrekgrinch says

The question is did he die of kidney failure in 2003 like the US Military and various intelligence agencies believed or was he really killed the other day?

Amazing operation, they actually built a compound like OBLs in Afghanistan for training, and 30 to 40 seals stormed it and supposedly took the body. You've got Gates and countless other high level people involved. And you think that it's possible this is a hoax? Now we all know the serious reasoning skills that are behind your economic assertions.

I guess a picture would convince everyone.

"Because w/o it people will always have doubts…not just here but world wide."

Even if pictures of the body are released, those same nutcases will still have doubts. They will claim that it is not him or that the photo was photoshopped.

ChrisLA says

Granted that is mainly done by marcus, who is generally the perpetrator of simply trying to get the rise out of people, it isn’t limited to him.

Shouldn't you throw in some absurdly stupid comment about unions, as you know,...punctuation? Or maybe tell me about how I hide behind children in my greed because obviously I'm only interested in myself, ...that like all union guys I'm basically just some kind of narcissistic asshole, just like...

I might have trolled Ray once or twice, or Shrek, but that's because they are constantly trolling everyone.

By the way, I don't have anything against real conservatives. You know, the kind who might say something like, "I'm an old fashioned conservative. Sure, I'm embarrassed by the fools and the extremists, but honestly we had to embrace them, and unfortunately we have to constantly play the God, Guns and Gay cards, and even the racism card sometimes, because we believe that's the only way we can win elections."

Well, maybe I went a little far there. Because I couldn't really respect that attitude, but I would prefer it over the Abe, Ray or Shrek type, just because the honesty would be so refreshing.