patrick.net

Oh, he was no 'champion' of the underdog and you know it. He (like the other lenders) discovered that 'high risk' people could be charged higher interest rates despite having default rates that were not substantially different from 'low risk' people, and he LOVED it -- which is why they pushed it further. It was never about helping anyone. They made more money from the risky borrowers than from the good borrowers, and so they suckered everyone into borrowing like a risky borrower would borrow. If they didn't believe this, they would most certainly not have been offering interest-only loans to high income, high FICO borrowers. By making EVERYONE borrow at sub-prime rates, they made a killing. Now they're reaping the rewards of that stupidity.

On the Sidelines says

Which is patently false. But Mozilo (stupidly) believed it:

How is it false? Default rates amongst so-called "prime" borrowers are now higher than "sub-prime". Clearly the way that we judge credit worthiness is very flawed. There was supposed to be only a 5% default rate for people with credit scores above 750, but in housing we're seeing numbers nearly 4x that. But what do you expect? A guy making $20k a year can still have an 800 FICO, but that doesn't mean he can afford a $200k house. At the same time, I make over $150k a year and have a sub-700 FICO (I don't use credit very often). Who's more credit worthy?

Kevin says

On the Sidelines says

Which is patently false. But Mozilo (stupidly) believed it:

How is it false? Default rates amongst so-called “prime” borrowers are now higher than “sub-prime”. Clearly the way that we judge credit worthiness is very flawed. There was supposed to be only a 5% default rate for people with credit scores above 750, but in housing we’re seeing numbers nearly 4x that. But what do you expect? A guy making $20k a year can still have an 800 FICO, but that doesn’t mean he can afford a $200k house. At the same time, I make over $150k a year and have a sub-700 FICO (I don’t use credit very often). Who’s more credit worthy? Obviously, the guy making $20k a year is a better credit risk. I'd loan him a million, because he pays his minimums and believes in the credit system. You, on the other hand, bad risk. You might only borrow what you can afford, pay it off early, and make the rest of (us) look bad. :)

On the Sidelines says

The Enquirer broke the John Edwards story. It is the only major news source that provides credible stories on Democrats anymore.

The Enquirer is also the only reliable news source about space aliens on earth. See "Men In Black". Hell, I like to drink. No problem with that as long as no one gets hurt and work gets done. I'll probably catch some shit for this, but I think Muslims and Mormons are way too uptight and could both benefit from learning to appreciate red wine.

Utah just changed their liquor laws so that you don't have to join a private club to buy a real drink. But they have some stupid-ass rules like the mixing has to be done out of sight. And you have to intend to order food to buy a second drink. Pretty damn stupid if you ask me. They also have a set number of liquor licenses available in Utah. The only way that you can apply for one is to be up and running as an establishment, then apply. But they're running out of them, so some places that opened probably won't get licensed. That, too, is pretty damn stupid. Did I miss something, or were those photos of a man & his wife walking & not smiling? Nothing Tara Reid like in those pics, if you ask me. A person can read anything into any photo, doesn't make it so.

Two drinks w/dinner is a drinking problem? She's not exactly a 90 lb woman and for most people a social outing takes place over several hours where the blood alcohol level dissipates. I know some women feel whoozy after several sips. Others don't feel the first one at all. I don't have a problem w/the first lady falling into the second category.

Being the first black lady is a hard job,not only that why not have a drink are two ! she is only human. Theresa Starks-Farid

The Original Bankster says

BABY GOT BACK!!!!

And ribs!

OMG! The first lady ordered a second martini! Call the fucking press, send her to the Betty Ford clinic... this chick needs an intervention!

The bitch need a perm with LYE in it!!!!!

OK, now blockquotes should not get munged, and now there is also a comment preview link on the comment edit page. So first you have to create a comment with the comment box at the bottom of a page, but then when you edit it you can preview how your edit will look. Quote nesting now works correctly. I never could reproduce space between paragraphs disappearing. Let me know if you have exact instructions for how to reproduce that. Soon I will also make a new post be in the same forum the user was in when he clicked "Write A Post".

Hey, I can put the preview function on this page too... OK, it's done. Seems to work.

Pretty good for a ten year old!

You might want to consider this problem: husband: lifelong Repub until last election, FIL: lifelong Repub, me: Independent but have voted mostly Repub. We all can't stand the woman and think she's an idiot. We were scared for our country watching her following swell because we thought she'd get us into WWIII. Also very po'd at the Republican party for what they've become. You wouldn't believe how many conservatives I know who feel that way. I don't think the party cheerleaders understand how polarizing she is. Can you win w/a divided party? Can you afford to lose any more membership?

IMHO she's too whiny, and too many ethics issues. She was the gov, stepped down because she didn't want to be a lame duck (she said). But she was voted in, and bailed on the state. Of course, she started bailing the day she accepted the vp nom. I think she'd be a horrible president.

"she didn’t want to be a lame duck" So you're saying she's Daffy and her popularity is down? Or are you saying she's a quack? Or a feather head with no pluck? Well, waddle it be? Is her goose cooked? And who's gonna pick up the bill? Was it all just a foul pond scheme?

Tenpoundbass says

I’d love nothing more than a two term Palin presidency, to Slap America out of stupid and the Notion that our only valid choices is either one of the two busted broken parties running around the world embarrassing me for America every chance they get.

Oh please. Palin agrees with 100% of the Republican agenda. The reason that the GOP turned against her is because she became a great big joke -- a caricature of the right that drove the independents screaming in terror. Name one GOP policy that Palin isn't a supporter of. Name one of Palin's policies that isn't in full agreement with the GOP. On the other hand, a Palin presidency might convince the left leaning states that the union needs to be dissolved, which is probably the best outcome for the people at this point. Let the whackos elect whackos to run their countries and keep them out of everyone else's business.

jabailo says

Destined to lead. Destined for the White House. Sarah Palin is the real champion of the middle class. That is why the media attacked her. She would have prevented the puppet Obama from shovelling 2 Trillion of our money to the DOW and Wall Street.

Or destined to continue on her path as national scapegoat for the republican party? time will tell.

Sarah might become an independent. The Republican elite don't seem too happy with her. After Obama's over taxation damages the economy further along with brutal inflation in the wings, the populace will be out for blood. (no pun) The liberals are slowly discovering that Obama is a bankster suck up who likes his Oreos double dunked.

jabailo says

Sarah Palin is the real champion of the middle class. That is why the media attacked her.

Champion of the middle class? Where do you get your weed? Which of her stated policies and objectives supports the middle class? Her opposition to health care, her support for big oil, or her support for cutting taxes on the rich? Perhaps you think her theft of $480m in federal funds for the bridge to nowhere was helping the middle class somehow? No? How about her outright lies in claiming that she didn't want the money in the first place? Only a moron would believe that she is any different from any other Republican. Every single stance that she has ever taken has been right in line with the GOP agenda. She's pro-war, anti-abortion, anti-gay, anti-stem cell, pro-gun, anti-union, pro-death penalty, pro-creationism, and a global warming denier. How is that ANY different from ANY OTHER mainstream GOP candidate? Claiming that she's "different" is intellectual dishonesty. She has the exact same agenda as every Republican leader since Nixon. By the way, "the media" didn't attack her. The left attacked her (obviously, just as the right attacks leading democratic figures), and Comedians mocked her for coming across as a complete idiot and not being able to speak coherently. The GOP doesn't like her because they think that she cost them the presidency. I don't think that's entirely fair though -- it was GOP who lost the election. The real Presidential race in 2008 was the Democratic primary.

By the way, “the media” didn’t attack her. The left attacked her (obviously, just as the right attacks leading democratic figures), and Comedians mocked her for coming across as a complete idiot and not being able to speak coherently.

The media did attack her. They attack everyone, and she's no different. But she did make it easier...

elliemae says

he media did attack her. They attack everyone, and she’s no different. But she did make it easier…

Which "media"? Other than the left (who attack every leader on the right), and Comedians, who was attacking her? Was Fox, WSJ, or any other right wing media outlet attacking her?

Please, she is totally unqualified for any public office. She has a laughably naive and sheltered world view which is apparent to anyone watching her fumble through her interviews on TV. We gave her a chance, and found a governor so woefully unqualified to lead the US that she thought foreign relations with Russia meant waving from your front porch as you look out across the Bering Strait. You know what would be really funny? Let's have a game show where we bring presidential candidates up and ask them really basic questions about geography and foreign countries, like "Please point to Iran on a map of the world." I bet she'd fail even basic geography. Hell, I bet she couldn't even point to most US states. She could probably find California, Alaska, Texas, and Florida, but I bet she couldn't find much else... Now, regarding her hypocrisy as a so-called "conservative", this is all the proof I need to know that she not only took money for the bridge to nowhere, she promoted it in her race for governor: http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/images/palin-nowhere-shirt.jpg (damn can't post pics)

I wouldn't vote for Palin for dog catcher. I didn't vote for Obama. I didn't vote for McCain. I voted for Ron Paul. If I had been in a state where it might have been close, I MIGHT have held my nose and voted for a mainstream repub or dem. Palin would have made it an easy choice as I would have had someone to vote against.

Tenpoundbass says

That stuff didn’t stop Bush now did it? Bush couldn’t tell the difference between WMD’s from Shineola, and he said New-que-lur around polite company. He was president twice.

Palin's dad isn't George H.W. Bush, and turd blossom won't have anything to do with her. I'm highly skeptical that the GOP would actually allow a non-white male be their candidate any time in the next 20 years. she could run as an independent, sure, but all that would do is split the GOP vote and guarantee another 4 years for the democrats.

This is the woman some like to compare to 'Jackie~O'??? I swear, the dog has more grace and poise than does it's handler. And where did she buy those jumbo~sized shorts? 'Big Dogs'? Her drinking doesn't surprise me one bit. Actually, I won't be surprised if it turns out she has been seeking refuge in stimulants and depressants.

Yeah elliemae, how about that bee hive state? This is how you deal with Utah and alcohol. 1. Order your home brew supplies out of state. 2. Have it delivered US mail if possible. Nosy Mormons need a warrant to open US mail... UPS, FedEx... That man on the puppet strings Orin Hatch just pops your box right open... We won't even get into how Orin's tan out oranges John Boe-hner's tan... 3. Brew and consume at home like it is the prohibition era. Remember, it is like that Star Trek episode with the "Will of Landru" and mind control cultist everywhere programmed to report on you. Keep cult members at bay, never let them persuade you to attend their "gatherings," or enter your house or for god's sake see your home made beer until you finish your phd and get the hell out of there... At least that is what my cousin told me... he did 3 1/2 years in Utah...

Just need a little yeast and some grapes and alcohol is inevitable. Wine yeast is better than bread yeast, but they both work.

Remember, it is like that Star Trek episode with the “Will of Landru” and mind control cultist everywhere programmed to report on you. Keep cult members at bay, never let them persuade you to attend their “gatherings,” or enter your house or for god’s sake see your home made beer until you finish your phd and get the hell out of there… At least that is what my cousin told me… he did 3 1/2 years in Utah…

I've spent most of my life here. I use the pioneer method, and do what the pioneers did. Yep, drive over the state line and buy alcohol in Vegas. :)

I need at least two drinks every time I read a post from OTS.

Tenpoundbass says

The “ONLY” person capable of “SAVING” this country, is going to be anything but an Republican or Democrat.

I agree -- but Sarah Palin *IS* a Republican. If she runs as an independent, it will be on the EXACT SAME AGENDA as whatever asshole the GOP plops out. The same agenda that has been failing since Nixon. How is that "independent"? Real change won't happen until we kick the lobbyists out and have citizen funded elections. After that we should focus on figuring out ways to reduce or eliminate political parties, which are the real root of the problem. When you read an article that talks about how passing legislation is going to be difficult because some PAC or lobbyist is going to "fight it", you know how wrong the system is. Speaking as someone who voted for Obama purely as the better of two crappy options last November, I would absolutely love to have some viable candidates without having "Democrat" or "Republican" next to their name on the ballot. Frankly, none of the smaller political parties (Libertarians, Greens, etc.) appeal to me either. I want politicians who are able to look at a situation and make the best decision, not the decision that happens to win votes or be most consistent with arbitrary ideology. I want politicians who aren't going to waste my time and theirs grandstanding on bullshit issues like defending "the sanctity of marriage" or resolutions honoring michael jackson.

Tenpoundbass says

Just a quick question, how much worse could she possibly be?

That's what you idiots said about GWB and look how much worse it was. I guarantee you if Al Gore was elected president in 2000, things would be a lot better now.

LOL Kevin! Elliemae, I didn't know you live in Utah now... I used to live there a while back. Yeah, the private club laws were annoying, but I hear they just repealed them finally! Yay! They still have absolutely idiotic liquor laws though, like you can't have 2 beers in front of you, which actually encourages binge drinking. Here's the scenario: 1. You're sitting down to dinner at a microbrewery, enjoying a nice ale. Your beer is almost finished, just a couple inches in the bottom. 2. Your waitress comes by to check on you, see how you're doing. "Would you like another beer?" 3. "Sure," you reply. She comes back a minute later with another beer. 4. She stands there holding the beer and says, "I'm sorry, I'm not allowed to serve you another beer until you finish the first one." 5. You chug the first beer, and get drunk faster, then she sets the second beer in front of you and goes merrily on her way. How is this supposed to protect people from overindulging in alcohol? When I enjoy a beer, I want to enjoy it at a leisurely pace. I don't want to be forced to chug my beer like I'm in some college drinking game. This is what happens when you let crazy religious nuts write liquor laws.

Tenpoundbass says

Just a quick question, how much worse could she possibly be?

How much worse than who? She could be a lot worse than Bush, who in turn was a lot worse than Obama -- there's a LONG way you can fall. Another war or two would be awesome. That's really beside the point though -- you aren't going to "fix" politicians, so you might as well go jump off a bridge now if you think any candidate has any chance of doing that ever. Every democracy on this planet is full of dumb fucks and dipshits who waste time and money on dumb things. We put up with it because the alternative is some form of dictatorship (fascism, monarchy, empire -- take your pick), and dictatorships are entirely too unpredictable to be pleasant to live in. Democracy always has been and always will be a bunch of dumb asses elected by a bunch of other dumb asses that tries to muddle through and make society work. So far it actually works pretty well.

Our laws have never made sense. It used to be that they couldn't mix a drink for you, but would sell mini-bottles instead. So each drink they served had a full mini-bottle in it. But we're making progress - we can sell full-strength beer on tap now. That'll make people come here now. Utah's the new party state!

I think this is a great idea. Second term!!

I've been wanting to do the view count thing for a long time and finally got to it. Great to see the numbers change almost every time I reload the page. > Patrick have you considered putting navigation on the bottom of the page, or at least an escape link back to the forum’s topic list? But I do have navigation at the bottom of the page, at least to the main forum page and each forum's topic list. Is it not visible, or not what you meant? Thanks for the suggestion!

For better or worse, this is still a democracy. People made their choice last Nov so apparently they like his economic philosophy regardless of its long-term effects (and, frankly, lessons the history teaches us). He told exactly what he was going to do (see the whole wealth re-distribution controversy) and the majority clearly was in favor of it. Just look at CA, nobody has ever lost an election here for flying the state into the ground with all kinds of free-for-all. Or do you remember how Athens, that ancient precursor of the US, voted themselves into the Peloponnesian War which ultimately ruined both Athens and Sparta? Or who invented the word demagogue which is so pertinent today if you know what I mean :) ? There are very deep questions lurking under this wave of left populism. Every single great country/culture which ever failed was rotten from the inside, not destroyed by foreign enemies. And the science has no answer why, when or exactly how a society decides to destruct itself. So I feel sorry for you and myself but chances are we are observing forces of historical proportions at work here. No amount of logic and reason could be enough to prevent it. On the flip side, there could be cases of real hard-working Americans hit hard by the recession somewhere where new houses cost, say, 200K and not 800K-1M. And very well could be a good idea to help them. But personally I have no illusion about who is the target audience for all those Democratic initiatives. So grab a chair and prepare to witness mighty Titanic meeting its destiny.

>> handing out Free Health Care to the irresponsible care to explain this?

Our current national healthcare plan: DON'T GET SICK. :(