patrick.net

Honest Abe says

Tatupu, great…what books do you recommend?

Why don't you start with "The conscience of a liberal" by Paul Krugman.

I think I'm going to vomit. Another selection, by a different author...PLEASE, I'm begging you.

Conscience of a liberal? I rather be Going Rogue.

Now this is the real deal:

http://www.amazon.com/Conscience-Conservative-Barry-Goldwater/dp/0895265400

Barry Goldwater vs Paul Krugman. Hmm... One of them is my hero. Guess who?

I am sure liberals want to make the world better. Perhaps they should do more charity work. The economy is best managed by people who love, and understand, money.

The freer the market the freer the people.

That's what I figured. Conservatives don't want to learn anything new. They just want to listen (AM radio) and read stuff that confirms their worldview.... That's kind of how my 2 year old operates...

I listen to Rush on Internet Radio. Isn't that something new?

taputu70 at least your 2 year old can't vote for servants of the Corporatocracy or screw the masses unlike the conservative adults in this country.

Corporatocracy is infinitely better than the welfare state.

When everyone wants to start his own corporation, we have a culture of entrepreneurship. When everybody wants to collect welfare, we become a society of scum.

Really? Is that why we have Corporate Welfare? Is that why we taxpayers saved Goldman Sachs and AIG with our "gubmint" money? So what would you call your Corporate masters who regularly collect "gubmint" money in the form of Corporate Welfare while evading taxes? (Would that be scum, as you say?)

Please educate me on how Corporations have made this country a better place to live and how they do better than the "gubmit" in actually making sure that social justice and peace reign inside our borders. I'm all ears. Oh, and please don't send me to books and other articles. Please grant me the gift of your intelligence and explain it in detail. And don't give me smarmy "because I said so" arguments, back them up. I'm not some twenty-something software developer. I'm much older and wiser than that and I've worked the corporate life for ten years in my time. That was more than enough to learn what actually drives the Corporatocracy.

So please, now my ears are yours. Educate me.

I am against corporate welfare. It is a direct result of over-regulation. However, if you envy corporate welfare, no one stops you from starting your own company and collect the money. You may actually do pretty well.

Please educate me on how "social justice" is more important than prosperity. Europe is more keen on social democracy yet they have much fewer private jets than the US.

Again, European governments have bigger roles yet they have more violent protest. Americans are more peaceful. Think TEA parties.

If you think corporations are evil, why don't you start your own corporation?

I'm waiting... Are you still evading the question by asking more questions? Sad. Until you do me the courtesy of answering me and educating me, because I asked first, I'm not going to waste my time picking apart what you just wrote. Quid pro quo.

You will never accept anything I say, because you will only "read stuff that confirms" your worldview.

If you do not want to waste time picking apart what I wrote than stop reading. I am under no obligation to educate you, I write only for the entertainment of myself and those who agree with me.

Peter P, at least you admit that you can't back up anything you say and that this is merely "entertainment." I'll make sure I give your comments the attention they deserve from now on in light of your honesty. Thanks, it'll save me lot's of time.

Thanks. Merry Christmas.

Peter--

I might accept what you say, but you have to present your views with logic and data that backs up your ideas. Just saying the same thing over and over doesn't mean it's correct. You have to explain to me why and what your ideas are to fix it.

If you can't do that then you're just wasting all of our time....

Some data:

In 2008 there were 16,605 corporate jets in the world.

Of this number, 11,824 were based in the US, 2,507 were based in Europe, 853 were based in Asia and the Middle East and 150 were based in Oceana. The balance of 1,271 were from elsewhere.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jameshall/100001847/the-us-tops-the-corporate-jet-league-but-for-how-long/

Jet ownership is a very good measure of business success.

You too! Merry Christmasâ„¢!*

*Brought to you by the Corporatocracy that has successfully transformed Christmas from a religious celebration into a meaningless display of rampant materialism and greed.

Yacht ownership, on the other hand, is more about opulence.

Most large yachts (longer than 300 feet) are NOT owned by Americans. They usually have Middle-Eastern or European owners.

from a religious celebration into a meaningless display of rampant materialism and greed

What if my religion involves materialism and greed? :-)

Peter P says

Jet ownership is a very good measure of business success

Was anyone arguing that Corporate America doesn't waste money on extravagances? Because I think America is definitely #1 in corporate malfeasance...

How does that help your point though?

Corporate jet is not an extravagance. I will get back to you on this. I am hungry. Need to get lunch.

Peter P says

from a religious celebration into a meaningless display of rampant materialism and greed

What if my religion involves materialism and greed?

Then you're in business... ;-)

elvis says

If the Constitution is the underlying document of conservatives, independents, libertarians, Republicans and other freedom loving, patriotic Americans, what is the underlying document of liberals, free-loaders, Democrats, socialists, and elitists? Anyone?

I'm so tired of this canard.

We liberals, patriots, Democrats, free-thinkers, leftists, independents, progressives, freedom loving Americans, and moral human beings operate from the same US Constitution that the conservatives, Corporate Overlords, fascists, fundamentalists, Republicans, and racists pretend to hold in such high regard whilst pissing all over it.

@Elvis

"your kind"?? nice try. Generalizations are a standard tool of AM radio. Glad you've been listening so well...

elvis says

No, your kind are the freedom haters and rights destroyers.

Which party passed the Patriot Act? The largest destroyer of rights in US history...

elvis says

No, your kind are the freedom haters and rights destroyers. Moral human beings don’t kill their own offspring. Capitalism has created the highest standard of living in the world. How many countries in the world have become prosperous through Socialism? (Hint: NONE). Its your kind, the liberal, democratic, socialistic politicians that completely reject the Constitution…through action, and continue the march toward socialism.
“The real destroyer of liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits.” (Translation: he who spreads the wealth).
Ronald Reagan, Oct 27, 1964 (probably said before Owebama was born).

Nice try dude. Keep trying to paint all "liberals" as socialists. But alas, that label doesn't work at all. American Liberals are vehement capitalists. We just want a level playing field. American Conservative Orthodoxy (now that there's a "purity test") wants to give massive "gubmint" subsidies (read "corporate welfare"), tax cuts, and massive controls over labor to their Corporate Masters and the very rich at the expense of the middle classes and poor. Ronnie Raygun wouldn't even meet today's "purity test" for American Conservative Orthodoxy in the Republican party.

tatupu70 says

elvis says

No, your kind are the freedom haters and rights destroyers.

Which party passed the Patriot Act? The largest destroyer of rights in US history…

I can't wait to read this answer if he ever decides to answer it directly instead of using his usual insults, generalizations, and evasions.

Elvis--

Anyone who continues to use "you people" loses all credibility with me. If blaming everything on liberals or Democrats helps you sleep at night, then by all means, keep believing it. But if you would like to grow up and understand how the world really works, try broadening your horizons and opening your mind.

As you may have noticed from the health care debate, Democrats are quite a diverse group with many differing views. Painting them all with the same brush is just small minded.

elvis says

Would anyone dare to quote a liberal, socialist, free-loader, or “Progressive,” with a statement that SUPPORTS individual freedom or liberty for all? You know, something like this: “Who ever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech” (Did I hear someone say “Fairness Doctrine?”) Benjamin Franklin, 1706 - 1790.

You must be a big fan of orwell. As the FCC opinion killing the "Fairness Doctrine" managed to say, offering opposing viewpoints is actually a restriction on free speech. Perfect orwellspeak. Obedience is freedom, freedom is obedience.

Reagan killed the fairness doctrine because it required users of public airwaves to air opinions on both sides if a broadcaster wanted to air opinions, forcing the right wing broadcasters to include other viewpoints. The key word there is IF. Broadcasters were FREE to not broadcast opinion at all. Broadcaster were FREE to broadcast all the opinion they wanted, as long as they allowed dissenting opinions to be aired. Simple as that. One might note the "Fairness Doctrine" only applied to public airwaves regulated by the FCC. That would be the public airwaves belonging to liberals as well as conservatives.

Some people seem to be very selective in how they apply the word FREE.

Oddly enough if you go to the ACLU website (the institution that is probably the most hated by conservatives) you will find lots of statements by the liberal, socialist, free-loader, “Progressive,” elements that SUPPORTS individual freedom or liberty for all. They just don't always support the selective parts of freedom that Elvis believes in.

Some people seem to be very selective in how they apply the word FREE.

tatupu70 said:

That’s what I figured. Conservatives don’t want to learn anything new. They just want to listen (AM radio) and read stuff that confirms their worldview…. That’s kind of how my 2 year old operates…

then:

As you may have noticed from the health care debate, Democrats are quite a diverse group with many differing views. Painting them all with the same brush is just small minded.

Somehow it is alright to paint conservatives all with the same brush. But doing so to democrats is just small mind.

tatupu70 says

That’s what I figured. Conservatives don’t want to learn anything new. They just want to listen (AM radio) and read stuff that confirms their worldview…. That’s kind of how my 2 year old operates…

Ever think maybe your two year old is on to something? Nah. Just go back to your koolade.

Nomograph, thanks for showing us what I was trying to say to "elvis" in plain English.

Ever think maybe your two year old is on to something? Nah. Just go back to your koolade.

We were all born highly intuitive. But we unlearned all such abilities and started demanding "scientific" data and statistics.

I'm mentally challenged says

You agree that your critical thinking skills are at the level of a two year old and that’s fine with you?

When the two year old is right and his wacked out liberal daddy is wrong yes. FOR SURE YES.

Here's a quote from Tatupu: "painting them all with the same brush is just small minded." And from Nomograph: "people like AdHominem, elvis, AND THEIR KIND..." (painting them all with the same brush).

Conclusion? Nomo, despite his lavish and rich retoric, is just small minded.

Here's a quote from Tatupu: "painting them all with the same brush is just small minded." And from Nomograph: "people like AdHominem, elvis, AND THEIR KIND..." (painting them all with the same brush).

Conclusion? Nomo, despite his lavish and rich retoric, is just small minded.

Intuition was born with the soul. Life experiences only made it weaker.

I do not expect someone who worships Scientism to understand.

Nomograph says

My observation is that,... inability to compete successfully for limited resources such as admittance to good schools, high-paying jobs, desirable spouses, etc. For example, consider the blue collar worker who barely finished high school and lives in the Bay Area. He or she may look around at all the successful, highly educated, well-paid, and well-married people

Your observation and 10 cents will buy you a dixie cup full of koolade.

Oh, and I think it is funny that anyone who doesn't drink the koolade is now a poor down trodden blue collar worker with no spouse, or at least an "undesirable" wife or husband (undesirable to you I would assume). That doesn't sound the least bit elitest does it? We probably cling to guns an religion too right? (rather than clinging to obama, socialized medicine and your supply of koolade). Painting with a very broad brush there smart guy. NO GENERALIZATIONS OR PROFILING THERE. Funny how with you and many others here when push comes to shove and your ideas have proven themselves wrong again and again you begin to attack those who disagree with you. I am all you have left, Ad Hominem. And Ad Hominem you can do well. So you have that going for you, which is nice. But just because your head comes to a point, please don't think you are sharp.

For example, consider the blue collar worker who barely finished high school and lives in the Bay Area. He or she may look around at all the successful, highly educated, well-paid, and well-married people, and out of anger and jealousy label them as “liberal elitists” or something similar.

And liberals look up and see all the "rich" people... out of anger and jealously they label them as evil profiteer.

Many of them are just full of themselves. They believe blue-collar workers "should get more education" and "work harder," yet they think rich people have "unearned" income.

The thing is that if you have a well-paid job, you are not making enough money.

Remember, education will only make you a good employee. Success requires out-of-the-box thinking. Fancy boxes do not help much.

What is being well-married? Can you provide "statistics" showing that liberals are less prone to divorces?