patrick.net

Honest Abe says

Should taxpayers all across America be forced to subsidize the cost of homeowners insurance for those living in known high risk area’s? If they want to live there fine…just pay for your own insurance, don’t force others to help finance your choices or your “situation - regardless of what it is.
Take whatever you want in life…then pay for it.

Makes me laugh because I remember in 2001-2002, post 9/11, insurers were warning that home owner's insurances rates were going up and I'm thinking Portland, Oregon is a heck of a long way from any major terrorists targets. Well, come to find out the rates were going up because the insurance companies investments were doing poorly in the stock market due to the economy. It had nothing to do with covering other people's arses but the insurance companies arses.

Leigh says

Makes me laugh because I remember in 2001-2002, post 9/11, insurers were warning that home owner’s insurances rates were going up and I’m thinking Portland, Oregon is a heck of a long way from any major terrorists targets. Well, come to find out the rates were going up because the insurance companies investments were doing poorly in the stock market due to the economy. It had nothing to do with covering other people’s arses but the insurance companies arses.

Same thing happened after Katrina with flood insurance. Those rates skyrocketed and vast areas that NEVER flooded were suddenly declared "Flood Zones" which, under the Federal Gov't regulations forced these homeowners (provided they had mortgages) to acquire expensive flood insurance. Nothing other than blatant robbery on behalf of the insurance companies.

The original pasted article says things like:'

"Current health care in America is very simple and extremely profitable." [assumedly for the insurance companies since a follow-on statement is:]

"In summary, the insurance industry reaps massive revenues ..."

And yet, the same article states something like this....

"But the American people have not been told the truth. They have been misled, manipulated, and deliberately distracted from the relatively simple mathematical concepts discussed above."

Very simple indeed... It is very simple for those with an agenda to conflate revenues with profits by intentionally NOT including the concept of profit margin! That's why it starts off with the premise that insurance companies are "extremely profitable" but then makes revenue the focus of the remainder of the article, more or less completely ignoring "profit" from that point further.

The average health insurance company profit margin is between about 2% and 4%. Want to confirm? Go to Yahoo Finance, search for some of the bigger insurance companies, and divide their net profit by their revenue for any given quarter.

A 2% to 4% profit margin.... Wow, that is particularly egregious, despite the fact that in regular times, anyone making that type of measly return from a broad-based market mutual fund would be complaining about it.

It's sad, but funny, that an author who talks about people being misled, distracted, and manipulated attempts that very same thing on his readers within the very same article!

Hint: Anytime someone starts an article with a general, unsubstantiated comment about "profit," but then switches to "revenue" for the focus of the actual article, is trying to "manipulate" or "mislead" you.

Hmmn? A "2% to 4% profit margin"? Isn't "profit margin" AFTER Jack Donahue (Aetna CEO) buys his private island in Naples with his own, private 18-hole golf course and helipad? Wouldn't want to confuse anyone what "profit margin" really means, would we?

Paralithodes says

the average health insurance company profit margin is between about 2% and 4%. Want to confirm?

yeah, you're full of shit on this assertion too.

WellPoint took in $65B in FY09
SG&A was $9.7B (15%)
Shareholder profit was 4.7B (7%)

Company paid $2.7B (4%) in taxes, if we had single payer that would be the overhead and everyone's premiums would be 22% lower, and that's not even counting the efficiencies single payer brings on the provider side.

And don't forget--that's after they paid all the execs outrageous salaries too...

Tat - you will be FORCED to purchase health insurance through a government-run "exchange"...but look who gets to "opt-out" of that system: The President and his family, the Vice-President, cabinet secretaries, White House staff and other administrative officials, Congressional members and special congressional staff.

So I ask, if socialized health care is good enough for you, so good in fact, they are going to force it on you whether you want it or not, then why is it not good enough for the President, his family, and all his political buddies?

Why do our public servents place themselves above the law?

Honest Abe says

Tat - you will be FORCED to purchase health insurance through a government-run “exchange”…but look who gets to “opt-out” of that system: The President and his family, the Vice-President, cabinet secretaries, White House staff and other administrative officials, Congressional members and special congressional staff.

Can you smell the bullshit? I can.

Nobody is "forced" to buy through the exchange. You simply must have insurance. That insurance can come from your employer (most likely it will, since any employer with more than 50 employees has to provide it), you can buy directly from a provider, you can get it from some professional association, or, if none of those options are available, you can get it from the exchange.

The president and his family aren't "excluded" in any way -- they get their insurance from their employer.

If you're going to spread lies, at least go for lies that can't be refuted with facts right in front of your face. I suppose you could actually believe this BULLSHIT, which just makes me sad for you.

Liberals in government, returning the nations wealth to it's rightful owners...the dependent class. In other words, from each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

Gee, where have I read that before?

Shit, I thought it was the super wealthy that were stealing all of our money, now it's poor people?

Why is it that I always see these arguments from the least productive people?

"I-90 will be closed tomorrow across South Dakota. They are hauling a 200 ton lump of coal so they can add Obama to Mount Rushmore."

It's funny because he's BLACK like a piece of coal see? Get it?

Actually Obama is cocoa brown, but let's not quibble when we
have FoxNews humor it's so very rare!

"Change" in governmnet always means more of the same: more regulation, more inflation, more looting of Americans, more police state measures, more unnecessary war and more centralization of power.

Actually, real change would mean the opposite of those things, wouldn't it? It might even involve following our own Constitution, something the President swore he would protect and defend.

There is an alternative to national bankrupcy, bailouts of failing businesses at the expense of successful ones, a bigger police state, trillion-dollar wars, and a government that acts like a parasite on the productive energies of the American people. Its called Freedom. [The Revolution, by Ron Paul]

Ouch, I bet that hit a nerve with some of you. What is that saying - "The truth hurts"? Have a nice day.

Abe

Nomograph says

Why not just say you hate uppity Negroes? It would be a refreshing bit of intellectual honesty.

Can't recall the name of the racist asshole who was deleted from the board, but twelc is either edition 2.0 or one of his aryan brethren.

Nomo - how can you 'guarantee' I am part of the dependent class????

Please elaborate, and be specific. Thank you, Abe

Vicente says

It’s funny because he’s BLACK like a piece of coal see? Get it?
Actually Obama is cocoa brown, but let’s not quibble when we
have FoxNews humor it’s so very rare!

Where did you see this on FoxNews? Please be specific and provide the link. LOL

Nomograph says

Honest Abe says

Nomo - how can you ‘guarantee’ I am part of the dependent class????

Your beliefs, behaviors, and blind devotion to ideology pretty much give you away as an undereducated, lower-performing individual. It’s virtually impossible to attain success as an ideological, black-or-white thinker. As such, you are largely supported by the tax dollars of people like myself.
In other words, you take more from society than you put in, and are as such part of the dependent class.

Eh, I also see this mentality from the people who, through sheer dumb luck, never actually had to work for anything. They think that being born into a wealthy family and inheriting the company business is "hard work".

Looks like hard work to me:

Nom - you're right, my beliefs, behaviors and devotion are to the Constitution. How about you? Do you believe in the Constitution? I find it funny that you speak in black and white statements, haha. Your assumptions are entirely incorrect (as usual).

Todays book: The road to Serfdom. I recommend this book for everyone, especially you radical liberals.

Honest Abe says

Todays book: The road to Serfdom. I recommend this book for everyone, especially you radical liberals.

look, pa! He's gonna give us some of that thar larnin! Oh, please, Honest Abe, next can you teach us all the story of the man named Jed...

There are some on this site that ARE trying, really trying to help teach others the benefits of sound money, freedom, personal responsibility, capitalism, small constitutional government, the evils of centralized planning, creeping socialism and the like. BTW, have you read it?

Honest Abe says

There are some on this site that ARE trying, really trying to help teach others the benefits of sound money, freedom, personal responsibility, capitalism, small constitutional government, the evils of centralized planning, creeping socialism and the like. BTW, have you read it?

Honestly, Abe, do you really think that people are here to learn from you? You're here "trying, really trying" while the rest of us truly believe that you're a joke. We don't take you seriously; it's pathetic but like a train wreck we cannot look away...

But do feel free to go on. You're outwitted on every level, and the more that you try the greater that fact is evident.

elliemae says

Honest Abe says

Todays book: The road to Serfdom. I recommend this book for everyone, especially you radical liberals.

look, pa! He’s gonna give us some of that thar larnin! Oh, please, Honest Abe, next can you teach us all the story of the man named Jed…

...he was a poor mountaineer who barely kept his family fed. Just helpin' you out, with the larnin' thang.

No I don't think people are here to learn from me. But if the knowledge is there why reject it? You refuse to answer simple questions like: did you read The Road to Serfdom? (No answer is an answer). And I get empowered by your personal attacks. It means I'm right on target.

I don't think I've seen a single book recommendation by any of you progressives, liberals, big government advocates, socialists, do-gooders or what ever you call yourselfs. No, I'm not being outwitted, not in the least.

Honest Abe says

I don’t think I’ve seen a single book recommendation by any of you progressives, liberals, big government advocates, socialists, do-gooders or what ever you call yourselfs.

I call myselfs elliemae.

Now is my turn to ask a question (answer yes or no): Do you still beat your wife?

Honest Abe says

(No answer is an answer).

You didn't read "The Road to Serfdom"...did you? Hahaha.

Honest Abe says

You didn’t read “The Road to Serfdom”…did you? Hahaha.

Interesting comment about it on Wikipedia:

"The Road to Serfdom is among the most influential and popular expositions of classical liberalism and libertarianism."

What you doing reading LIBERAL propaganda? Did you wash your hands afterwards?

Your "classical liberalism" sounded great to robber barons, right up until it led to a series of CRUSHING DEPRESSIONS, at which point it was largely abandoned.

Honest Abe says

You didn’t read “The Road to Serfdom”…did you? Hahaha.

Contrary to your apparent beliefs, this isn't high school, you're not my teacher, and I don't do assigned readings. The only parallel I can see is your childish insistence that you're always right, and that the rest of the world just doesn't understand you...

Honest Abe says

There are some on this site that ARE trying, really trying to help teach others the benefits of sound money, freedom, personal responsibility, capitalism, small constitutional government, the evils of centralized planning, creeping socialism and the like. BTW, have you read it?

Yeah, because some random jackass on the internet preaching the same small government rhetoric that has been flung around since the founding of the union is really going to change people's opinions on things.

Ummm, more personal attacks - without substance. I must be on target.

lets see: DURING
DURING the campaign, Obama was in trouble because of his radical CHRISTIAN pastor... but actually, he is a Muslim...

Ok, what you idiots make up your mind which way you hate him? for his radical christian religion? or radical muslim?

Zlxr - yea, I think you have a point. In other words, why argue with idiots? Thanks for your input.

Honest Abe says

Zlxr - yea, I think you have a point. In other words, why argue with idiots? Thanks for your input.

I do wonder why, when someone disagrees with you it's a personal attack. Yet when you personally attack others, it's different. Honest Abe says

Ummm, more personal attacks - without substance. I must be on target.

The only person lacking substance is you. Have you noticed that you've driven away many people who contributed to the subjects? I'm sure you think that you've "won" by doing so.

@Honest Abe

We each come here because we like to debate politics and current affairs, we also learn opposing points of views along the way which influence our perspectives on each of the topics of discussion.

Its all a part of the fun, I thought you would have been used to it by now.

4X says

@Honest Abe
We each come here because we like to debate politics and current affairs, we also learn opposing points of views along the way which influence our perspectives on each of the topics of discussion.
Its all a part of the fun, I thought you would have been used to it by now.

The issue here is that some of us are debating issues, while others such as Abe & Rayray are unable to accept others have opinions that are worthwhile. Attacking others and insisting that they're always right on every level is non-productive and detracts from whatever contributions they might have to the discourse.

We're not here to be educated by them, and they're not taken seriously. We're trying, really trying, to find a message in their posts. The only thing that I can figure is that they don't have anywhere else to state their opinion because of obvious lack of social skills that they display here.

Behind their protests of being attacked personally while they attack others, and hide behind their victim mentality, is only to be expected. It's the only thing they're bringing to the game.

Zlxr says

Mae Bee U R having a tad bit too much fun with your Me No Pause It All attacks.

Aw, you can never have too much fun! And I'm not "me no paws it al" as of yet, but thanks for asking.

elliemae says

The issue here is that some of us are debating issues, while others such as Abe & Rayray are unable to accept others have opinions that are worthwhile. Attacking others and insisting that they’re always right on every level is non-productive and detracts from whatever contributions they might have to the discourse.

This is too funny coming from the Queen of Insults. Little elliemae very rarely comments on anything a conservative says in substance, instead she hurls one personal insult after another. Talk about a perfect example of the kettle calling the pot black.

Being interviewed during today's White Sox game, Obama claimed to be a "lifelong White Sox fan from the South Side of Chicago." When asked who his favorite White Sox player was growing up, he answered "well, I actually grew up in Hawaii" and couldn't name a single player from the past. In other words, he lied again. LOL

RayAmerica says

Being interviewed during today’s White Sox game, Obama claimed to be a “lifelong White Sox fan from the South Side of Chicago.” When asked who his favorite White Sox player was growing up, he answered “well, I actually grew up in Hawaii” and couldn’t name a single player from the past. In other words, he lied again. LOL

I'm a dodgers fan, grew up in Los Angeles. But I couldn't name a player if my life depended upon it. Does that make me a liar? You have nothing to offer beyond your hatred of all things Obama. And, I will comment on something a conservative says "in substance" if and when they say anything of substance.

RayAmerica says

Talk about a perfect example of the kettle calling the pot black.

oooooooh, this is too easy.

You might be taken more seriously if you even knew the way the saying went. But then again, nah. You don't want to be taken seriously - you sign everything off with "LOL."

elliemae says

4X says

@Honest Abe
We each come here because we like to debate politics and current affairs, we also learn opposing points of views along the way which influence our perspectives on each of the topics of discussion.
Its all a part of the fun, I thought you would have been used to it by now.

The issue here is that some of us are debating issues, while others such as Abe & Rayray are unable to accept others have opinions that are worthwhile. Attacking others and insisting that they’re always right on every level is non-productive and detracts from whatever contributions they might have to the discourse.
We’re not here to be educated by them, and they’re not taken seriously. We’re trying, really trying, to find a message in their posts. The only thing that I can figure is that they don’t have anywhere else to state their opinion because of obvious lack of social skills that they display here.
Behind their protests of being attacked personally while they attack others, and hide behind their victim mentality, is only to be expected. It’s the only thing they’re bringing to the game.

They are arch-conservatives looking to pay back liberals for the past 8 years of Bush mistakes by blaming them on our current president, thats all. They will go to the grave defending the past 8 years of mistakes and bashing the current attempts to fix the system.

elliemae says

I’m a dodgers fan, grew up in Los Angeles. But I couldn’t name a player if my life depended upon it. Does that make me a liar?

A "fan" that can't name a single player on his or her favorite team is either a) completely stupid or b) a liar or c) both. Which is it?