patrick.net

antifeminist says

For the record, I do not support the Republicans, except maybe those Tea Party candidates that are really outsiders who are using the government machinery so well monopolized by the Demorepublicrat political oligarchy, which is only a front to emotionally engage and stupefy the American masses.

So, you support the militant wing of the GOP. Good to get that admission out of the way.

Vicente,

I am happy to talk candidly with you. Politics is maintenance of jurisdiction. We cannot have civilized freedom without possessing politics ourselves. That is why I believe in the 2nd Amendment, scrupulous federalism, and self-government. Someone must have the power of jurisdiction for there to be a civilization. Centralized control is dangerous and ultimately oppressive.

'Radical' presumes a great distance from some proper position. A position that is conciliatory to fools or the two wings of the establishment is not a valid reference point. Any judgment or morality not consistent with the Laws of Nature is wrong. Although our unalienable rights are actually alienable, the Laws of Nature are not. Freedom can only work a certain way in this world. Whereas a preacher might have told someone to repent, Benjamen Franklin would have said try this lightning rod on your next house. What answer will work?

RayAmerica says

Who needs Jefferson, Adams, Madison, Franklin, Washington, etc. when we have “Kevin” to tell us what’s relevant? No doubt he knows far more than those idiots that founded the country. LOL

By definition. Do you have any idea how much more the average person knows today than even the best educated people did 200 years ago?

Thomas Jefferson didn't even believe that Africans and Europeans were the same species.

So, no, the appeal to authority bullshit doesn't sway me on anything. Anyone can dredge up random quotes from dead people to support their arguments.

Kevin says

By definition. Do you have any idea how much more the average person knows today than even the best educated people did 200 years ago?

You have access to Wikipedia. Of course that makes you smarter than Thomas Jefferson, et all. How could anyone argue that “Kevin” isn’t smarter than all the Founding Fathers combined? LOL!!

RayAmerica says

Kevin says

By definition. Do you have any idea how much more the average person knows today than even the best educated people did 200 years ago?

You have access to Wikipedia. Of course that makes you smarter than Thomas Jefferson, et all. How could anyone argue that “Kevin” isn’t smarter than all the Founding Fathers combined? LOL!!

I never said anything about being "smarter", I said that I know more than they did. And I do. As much as it pains me to admit it, so do you.

Please don't mistake knowledge for intelligence.

If you want to lend an air of credibility to your arrogant know it all political ramblings, then the founding fathers are definitely the route to go. Greek philosophers can also be nice when the goal is a little intellectual sophistication (or bring out the latin if you need the really big guns). Jesus is also excellent in some circles, although it is so challenging to find good quotes by Jesus to back up right wing political views.

Whatever you do though, stay away from ancient eastern (Lao Tsu, Confucius etc) as well as French philosophers.

I've always been fond of Einstein quotes and also Bertrand Russel.

marcus says

If you want to lend an air of credibility to your arrogant know it all ramblings, then the founding fathers are definitely the route to go. Greek philosophers can also be nice when the goal is a little intellectual sophistication (or bring out the latin or if you need the really big guns)

As long as he doesn't invoke the great Homer Simpson... That guy is awesome and really brings in the D'oh.

By the way, antifeminist...was Jesus a feminist ?

elliemae says

As long as he doesn’t invoke the great Homer Simpson… That guy is awesome and really brings in the D’oh.

I prefer the wisdom of a forgotten genius.

"Did I ever tell you about my Uncle Max?....."

Thomas Jefferson was well aware that white slave owners had sex with black slave women, and that the result was mulatto children. He was accused of doing so himself. Species are able to breed among themselves. Where is your evidence that TJ believed whites and blacks were different species? I THINK YOU LIED.

You are so smug with your Internet access and your cell phone. Having things of worth is not being things of worth. You are not better than Thomas Jefferson, certainly not as a writer or thinker. It is not unreasonable to think there are some substantial genetic differences between blacks and whites.

Why do only people of blacks heritage get sickel cell anemia?

Sickle cell anemia affects millions throughout the world. It is particularly common among people whose ancestors come from sub-Saharan Africa; Spanish-speaking regions (South America, Cuba, Central America); Saudi Arabia; India; and Mediterranean countries such as Turkey, Greece, and Italy. In the Unites States, it affects around 72,000 people, most of whose ancestors come from Africa. The disease occurs in about 1 in every 500 African-American births and 1 in every 1000 to 1400 Hispanic-American births. About 2 million Americans, or 1 in 12 African Americans, carry the sickle cell trait.

http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/posters/chromosome/sca.shtml

From Washington Post:

With the help of a pinch of fossil bone dust, scientists have discovered that modern human beings interbred with Neanderthals tens of thousands of years ago, and that 1 to 4 percent of the genes carried by non-African people are traceable to the much-caricatured, beetle-browed cavemen.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/06/AR2010050604423.html

From The Huffington Post:

We have met Neanderthal and he is us – at least a little. The most detailed look yet at the Neanderthal genome helps answer one of the most debated questions in anthropology: Did Neanderthals and modern humans mate?

The answer is yes, there is at least some cave man biology in most of us. Between 1 percent and 4 percent of genes in people from Europe and Asia trace back to Neanderthals.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/07/neanderthal-dna-found-in-_n_567177.html

I doubt you, Kevin, can 'drudge up random quotes from dead people to support' your argument. Oh look, from Vicente's comment above: "Jefferson cited Adam Smith, the hero of free market capitalists everywhere..." I guess Vicente is anybody too.

If you aren't anybody, then I guess TJ is better than you.

I take the liberty of observing that you are not a true disciple of our master Epicurus, in indulging the indolence to which you say you are yielding. One of his canons, you know, was that "that indulgence which prevents a greater pleasure, or produces a greater pain is to be avoided."

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/mtj:@field%28DOCID+@lit%28ws03098%29%29

So impress us, Kevin, and quote from a dead guy to support how much smarter average people are today, or your political views at all. Heck, just give us a source that proves what you say Jefferson said. Use his own words, not your interpretation of them. If you get sick of the abuse from being in over your head, try studying the facts! Maybe you will figure out that the Mediterranean basin was the cradle of Western civilization, and that dark-skinned Caucasians (Caucasoids) come from northern Africa. Egyptians used corvee labor, and they were and are 'white' people. Al Sharpton was wrong when he said, "White folks was [sic] in caves while we was building empires...." Negroids come from sub-Saharan Africa. How can we have a coherent discussion if your basic terminology is mistaken?, if you ignore history?, and if your feelings are out of control because your intellect has never been challenged to grow?

antifeminist says

So impress us, Kevin, and quote from a dead guy to support how much smarter average people are today

Kevin says

I never said anything about being “smarter”,

As Kevin said, there is a difference between intelligence and knowledge. Hopefully, you understand that.

marcus asked if Jesus was a feminist. I am not aware of anyone that was a feminist until the 19th century. Feminism is not possible without an industrial revolution. I believe Jesus did say give unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and unto God what is God's. Also, I think it was St. Paul that said for wives to obey their husbands. Of course, the Bible loses meaning with translations. Muslims, incidentally, do not allow translations of the Quran from Arabic to be still considered the Quran.

antifeminist says

I doubt you, Kevin, can ‘drudge up random quotes from dead people to support’ your argument. Oh look, from Vicente’s comment above: “Jefferson cited Adam Smith, the hero of free market capitalists everywhere…” I guess Vicente is anybody too.

I've made it to "anybody" status. Hurray!

Most people watch "Dancing with the Stars", etc. They don't know more, IMHO, than Thomas Jefferson. Having more materially is not being more mentally. Thomas Jefferson was a polymath. Do you even know what one is? According to wikipedia:

"A polymath, Jefferson achieved distinction as, among other things, a horticulturist, political leader, architect, archaeologist, paleontologist, musician, inventor, and founder of the University of Virginia."

So who the hell are you?

Vicente says

I’ve made it to “anybody” status. Hurray!

Congrats Vicente. Couldn't have happened to a better anyone.

antifeminist says

I am not aware of anyone that was a feminist until the 19th century. Feminism is not possible without an industrial revolution.

There are examples of matriarchal societies prior to Industrial Revolution.

antifeminist says

So who the hell are you?

Are ya talking to Vicente? He's our any man.

I can assure you that I am both smarter and more knowledgeable than you are, and am definitely more knowledgeable than Thomas Jefferson was.

Your assumptions about what I do or do not know are highly amusing.

Show me these feminist societies without industrialization. I am talking about matriarchies. Name one. A matrilineal society does not require that women are politically equal to men. History has had several matrilineal patriarchies. Name these societies!

Kevin says

I can assure you that I am both smarter and more knowledgeable than you are, and am definitely more knowledgeable than Thomas Jefferson was.
Your assumptions about what I do or do not know are highly amusing.

I guarantee one thing; if Jefferson were alive today, you wouldn't be able to hold a conversation with him for more than 2 minutes. You make the silly assumption that because you "know" a few things (very much in doubt) about modern society, you therefore "know" what HIS society and times were all about. Sorry to tell you this "Kevin," you are one self deluded person. I would love to buy you for what you are worth and sell you for what you think you are worth. I'd make a fortune.

I agree that wisdom and knowledge are not the same, as I think Kevin said. If you look at what it is that one spends time and energy trying to prove, you will see their wisdom, or lack there of.

Antifeminist, it would be difficult to guess the genesis of your strange obsession with race. You confuse "white" with middle class. It is true that since a majority of the current middle class in the US is white, we white folk have the luxury of having major input into what it means to be middle class. I'm talking about, behavior, education, SETTING AN EXAMPLE FOR THE FUTURE when we are no longer the majority.

But it is a simple fact that "white" americans will become a minority soon. Let's do our best positively impact and preserve a strong middle class in America. As for your racist views, which are wrong, why not just put yourself out there and experience the world. Don't be so scared of what you don't know. You would be surprised at the degree to which people are the same. Especially if they have the good fortune to be born in to a decent middle class (or better) situation.

You say you're intelligent. If so, follow this logic. In spite of the fact that your race views are simply wrong, what if they were right ? What is it you would want ? Your views, like satanism, or pedaphelia are unacceptable in our culture. Do you with your supposed logic skills think you are going to change us ? Please tell us what it is you wish to accomplish with this.

Kevin says

I can assure you that I am both smarter and more knowledgeable than you are, and am definitely more knowledgeable than Thomas Jefferson was.

This silly example of self delusion deserves a repeat. This guy is certifiable.

marcus says

But it is a simple fact that “white” americans will become a minority soon.

I can't wait to be a "minority." I'm looking forward to affirmative action so I can gets me a job at the Post Office.

RayAmerica says

Kevin says

I can assure you that I am both smarter and more knowledgeable than you are, and am definitely more knowledgeable than Thomas Jefferson was.

Your assumptions about what I do or do not know are highly amusing.

I guarantee one thing; if Jefferson were alive today, you wouldn’t be able to hold a conversation with him for more than 2 minutes.

If Jefferson was alive today, he'd probably be both smarter and more knowledgeable than I am, so you might be right.

But he's not. He did hundreds of years ago. More people are alive today than had ever existed when Jefferson died. Science has uncovered more in the last 100 years than it did in the previous 10,000. We've had new political systems, new economic systems, and new social systems tried, failed, and refined.

No human being could possibly understand everything that our society has learned in the last 200 years. That's why we need googles and wikipedias to help us understand even a fraction of it.

You make the silly assumption that because you “know” a few things (very much in doubt) about modern society, you therefore “know” what HIS society and times were all about.

Actually, I don't particularly care what his society was "all about". His society accepted slavery, subjugation of women, and extreme elitism. I don't really give a shit what he believed or did not. My point is that it's not relevant in 2010.

Would you like to discuss the political viewpoints of cavemen as well?

Sorry to tell you this “Kevin,” you are one self deluded person. I would love to buy you for what you are worth and sell you for what you think you are worth. I’d make a fortune.

Oh, Ray, you couldn't possibly afford me for what I'm actually worth.

Kevin says

If Jefferson was alive today, he’d probably be both smarter and more knowledgeable than I am, so you might be right.

Do you really think so? I'm sure that assertion should spark some debate. LOL !!!

RayAmerica says

I can’t wait to be a “minority.” I’m looking forward to affirmative action so I can gets me a job at the Post Office.

Well, you've certainly shown the propensity to "go postal" when things don't go your way.

RayAmerica says

I guarantee one thing; if Jefferson were alive today, you wouldn’t be able to hold a conversation with him for more than 2 minutes.

Well, duh - he'd be 267 years old and probably wouldn't remember what things were like back in the day. One thing with which he would agree, however, is that we have a greater knowledge base today than we did back in the 1700's.

Kevin .... you've sparked another thought. Albert Einstein died back in the 1950's. He didn't know anything about the internet (Al Gore didn't invent it yet), didn't live to see a man on the moon (yes, it really did happen), never used a cell phone, etc. Do you think that would make YOU more "knowledgeable" than Einstein?

Please answer. The fun is just beginning.

marcus, I follow your logic. It's feel-good stimulation. What do I hope to accomplish? I hope to plant my wisdom into whatsoever minds I can reach. I know you don't believe me now. If you live another 20 years and you are not retarded, and I think you are not, I think you will see that I was telling you the truth. Kevin got us on the topic, remember?

"By definition. Do you have any idea how much more the average person knows today than even the best educated people did 200 years ago?

Thomas Jefferson didn’t even believe that Africans and Europeans were the same species."

If blacks are ever better at civilization than whites, I will adopt black culture. Your neo-socialist-multicultural white culture is inane, and I will not adopt it. I think several thousand years of history tells us what cultural values don't work and what work best.

marcus, here is my problem with your logic: You want life to be easy for everybody at everybody else's expense. The laws of nature do not consult your feelings or buy into a Ponzi scheme. Consumption can never exceed production. Your feelings are not consulted by life, sorry.

antifeminist says

marcus, here is my problem with your logic: You want life to be easy for everybody at everybody else’s expense

I never said that. I am fine with things being basically a meritocracy. Even with small amounts of affirmative action, it's not like we don't still have a meritocracy. All I was getting at, is that you would do better on this forum to use terms like middle class, in place of "white," because that is what our culture and values are about, whether you are capable of getting it or not.

And if your disagreement over what our most fundamental values are is that strong, then so be it. You will just end up ignored by many, including me. My guess is you are already ignored by many (via the ignore link/button).

marcus,

1) nice scare tactic about people ignoring me.

2) when would I have done better to use the term 'middle class' as opposed to white?

3) why is that a good thing to use 'middle class' as a synonym for 'white', assuming it is?

4) why is 'special needs' better than 'physically challenged' which is better than 'handicapped'? Did handicapped get stale with unpleasant truth? Goes back to your precious feelings, I think.

5) I appreciate you. I don't want to support you through government, but I appreciate you. We are having a conversation not about Lady Gaga. :-)

antifeminist says

2) when would I have done better to use the term ‘middle class’ as opposed to white?

Provocative things you said such as references to "white exceptionalism." And an otherwise tone of white supremacy, especially in your first couple posts.

I'm not saying middle class is a synonym for white. Just that I think you confuse the two. I'm concerned about the middle class not going away. Ethnicity is irrelevant. I believe that in the not so distant future even the middle class will be extremely diverse, and that values you attribute to white middle class will be embraced by a middle class that is majority nonwhite. It's something that I think is worth fighting for.

Who's the realist ?

The ignore button comment was not a scare tactic. It's a feature that I and others can use if we so choose.

RayAmerica says

Kevin …. you’ve sparked another thought. Albert Einstein died back in the 1950’s. He didn’t know anything about the internet (Al Gore didn’t invent it yet), didn’t live to see a man on the moon (yes, it really did happen), never used a cell phone, etc. Do you think that would make YOU more “knowledgeable” than Einstein?
Please answer. The fun is just beginning.

I know more about a lot of things than Einstein did, but I'm sure that he still knew more about physics in 1950 than I currently know. Most of the developments in Physics since Einstein's time have been in highly speculative areas that I admittedly don't follow that much, except for quantum mechanics. I'm pretty sure that people like Neil Tyson and Stephen hawking know more than Einstein did at the time of his death though.

I definitely know more than he did about other topics. Einstein was a brilliant physicist, but I don't think I'd have listened to him about investment advice, engineering, or city planning.

However, my great grandchildren will definitely know more about physics than Einstein did, much like I know *way* more than Newton did.

marcus says

You will just end up ignored by many, including me. My guess is you are already ignored by many (via the ignore link/button).

It's actually only the second poster that I've ever ignored. Mostly to save me time scrolling past the multi-thousand word posts that don't even produce a single thought.

I believe that the civilizations made according to white values over the past 500 years have been the best. You seem to think that realization is somehow bad. If the Saints won the Superbowl, would it be a slight to the other teams to say the Saints were the best that year?

Whites don't have a patent on superior social design. Whites are losing their superior values. Will non-whites adopt what whites are giving up? For all practical purposes, no. Only confident intellectuals give up the values of their native culture when they can do better. The exceptions will not stop the consequences of the rule. I think that currently no societal population on earth has common sense, which means common wisdom baked into culture.

Who's the realist? Time will tell. I agree that things are changing. I disagree with how uplifting those changes will be. You see unprecedented harmony; I see a return to senseless barbarism. We will just have to disagree in the meantime. I wish for you to consider the rightness of State secession. It would allow for peaceful change, and judgment by life.

I've developed my social view on a study of statistics and history. I wonder what the basis for your convictions are. Marcus, have you independently developed your opinion by looking at facts, or have you adopted someone else's ready-made opinion? How do you get to multicultural bliss?

antifeminist says

Marcus, have you independently developed your opinion by looking at facts, or have you adopted someone else’s ready-made opinion? How do you get to multicultural bliss?

It's self evident.

Spend a few decades in New York, Chicago, LA, Miami, or any one of many other diverse cities. And live. Experience. I now teach in a school that is over 80 percent nonwhite. It's a middle class area. Guess what, the kids are indistinguishable from "white" kids (except to the extent you can discern their ethnicity).

Experience is the only way you can get it. Many cities already look like the future. I feel sorry for you for what you haven't experienced. Maybe it's a silver spoon ? Maybe you are in backwater Texas, or maybe some hillbilly culture that you think is America.

antifeminist says

I disagree with how uplifting those changes will be. You see unprecedented harmony; I see a return to senseless barbarism.

I don't see unprecedented harmony without a vibrant economy. And I don't see it without continued striving toward that. You're proof that hate/fear and intolerance are learned. Fortunately learning tolerance is much easier and happens relatively naturally in some environments.

antifeminist says

I see a return to senseless barbarism

You're friend Abe likes books about how we create our reality. I agree, at least in a way. Maybe he can help you, although I doubt it.

Good luck.

Vicente says

RayAmerica says

…. UNDER PENALTY OF LAW, this legislation FORCES citizens to purchase from a PRIVATE entity a product. Please inform us when the federal government has ever done such a thing?

Do you live in the USA? I wonder….. after all you cannot drive on a public road AFAICR without proof of PRIVATE insurance.

Not True, your free to use paved roads if you riding your bike without insurance. It's always assumed that roads are only for cars, with the exception of limited access highways, roads for more than just cars.

Kevin says

By definition. Do you have any idea how much more the average person knows today than even the best educated people did 200 years ago?
Thomas Jefferson didn’t even believe that Africans and Europeans were the same species.

Kevin says

I can assure you that I am both smarter and more knowledgeable than you are, and am definitely more knowledgeable than Thomas Jefferson was.

Kevin says

I still can’t believe that anyone is dumb enough to use quotes from people who have been dead for 200 years as a way to argue for or against something.

Kevin says

What Thomas Jefferson thought of government, taxes, or anything else is irrelevant to 2010. Dead people don’t get a vote.

Our little "Kevin" vs JFK:

John F. Kennedy - Remarks at a Dinner Honoring Nobel Prize Winners of the Western Hemisphere, April 29th, 1962

"I want to tell you how welcome you are to the White House. I think this is the most extraordinary collection of talent, of human knowledge, that has ever been gathered together at the White House, with the possible exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone."

RayAmerica, that was an awesome comment! And using JFK no less! I don't think people like Kevin will get it.

marcus says

antifeminist says

Marcus, have you independently developed your opinion by looking at facts, or have you adopted someone else’s ready-made opinion? How do you get to multicultural bliss?

It’s self evident.
Spend a few decades in New York, Chicago, LA, Miami, or any one of many other diverse cities. And live. Experience. I now teach in a school that is over 80 percent nonwhite. It’s a middle class area. Guess what, the kids are indistinguishable from “white” kids (except to the extent you can discern their ethnicity).
Experience is the only way you can get it. Many cities already look like the future. I feel sorry for you for what you haven’t experienced. Maybe it’s a silver spoon ? Maybe you are in backwater Texas, or maybe some hillbilly culture that you think is America.
antifeminist says

I disagree with how uplifting those changes will be. You see unprecedented harmony; I see a return to senseless barbarism.

I don’t see unprecedented harmony without a vibrant economy. And I don’t see it without continued striving toward that. You’re proof that hate/fear and intolerance are learned. Fortunately learning tolerance is much easier and happens relatively naturally in some environments.
antifeminist says

I see a return to senseless barbarism

You’re friend Abe likes books about how we create our reality. I agree, at least in a way. Maybe he can help you, although I doubt it.
Good luck.

So, Marcus, you are a card carrying member of the National Education Association, the education arm of the new world order? If you take away the ability of white people, you get Mexico or the Congo. That is effectively what you are doing. Where is the evidence of unsubsidized greatness in New York, Chicago, LA, or Miami? You use the weapon of white man's burden. When Mexico or sub-Saharan Africa westernize like Japan, let me know.

Patrick's words are apropos here:

If you understand that, then you probably understand the rest of this site as well. If your job depends on not understanding that, then you won’t understand it.

RayAmerica says

Our little “Kevin” vs JFK:

John F. Kennedy - Remarks at a Dinner Honoring Nobel Prize Winners of the Western Hemisphere, April 29th, 1962

“I want to tell you how welcome you are to the White House. I think this is the most extraordinary collection of talent, of human knowledge, that has ever been gathered together at the White House, with the possible exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone.”

Oh, shit, JFK said something once. I didn't realize you were such an admirer.

Kevin says

Oh, shit, JFK said something once. I didn’t realize you were such an admirer.

What? Didn't you know Ray SHOOK HIS HAND? I found a picture: