patrick.net

RayAmerica says

thomas …. Obama continues to bail out Fannie & Freddie, further enabling the drunks with a boat load of booze. When the real housing crash hits, housing will be very affordable. You’ll be able to buy up prime properties for pennies on the dollar.

I get first dibs on a Marina Blvd. mansion. I want/need 3 stories, parking, 5000 sq ft +, a ballroom and a backyard large enough for a pool. I'm willing to pay up to $200K (across from the yacht club is ok, as I'm willing to wear ear~plugs to mask the sound from the fog~horns).

*tongue planted firmly in cheek

mabiawilliams says

The lenders gave a confused reaction on the event of the declaration of the Obama’s loan modification program early in March. It was apparently too much to be absorbed at a go, as the anxious home owners asked a series of questions to the lenders even before the lenders could successfully find answers to them.

Actually the real problem is that there are far too many hoops to jump through in order to qualify for the loan mod program. When it's all said and done, very few actually qualify, as evidenced by the small numbers that have successfully modified their loans.

RayAmerica says

thomas …. Obama continues to bail out Fannie & Freddie, further enabling the drunks with a boat load of booze. When the real housing crash hits, housing will be very affordable. You’ll be able to buy up prime properties for pennies on the dollar.

Pennies on which dollar ? Housing already is affordable for people with lots of dollars. So how does someone making zero dollars afford a house at pennies on the dollar when someone with alot of dollars is already in line ? Maybe a high enough paying job ? Seriously though, this country is in the final capitulation of debt - but- without jobs that capitulation keeps going and going and very few have enough real dollars to buy anything without debt. The housing days for the hard working middle class are basically a thing of the past. So that leaves aristocrats to buy all the housing.

marko ... ... you're seeing what debt does to people. Debt is a scam perpetrated on the working class in order to make them slaves to their debt and employment. Practically our entire economy is geared towards encouraging people to BUY now, PAY later, all with high interest. Home ownership typically is not a good deal for people that require financing, unless their ownership is coupled with fairly high, consistent, long term appreciation. Home "ownership" isn't ownership at all if you are financing. What it is in real terms is renting money for the term of the loan until the principle is paid back to the lender. In the mean time, you will be paying approximately 3X the loan amount (30 year fixed), will pay untold thousands to maintain the property, and have the joy in paying tens of thousands in property taxes and insurance. Historically, housing appreciates at an approximate rate of only 3%. If you have to borrow at all on a home, I strongly suggest you save and earn enough to buy a modest home on a short term of 10 or 15 years. That way, you’ll save an incredible amount of money. The only negative is you’ll be paying a higher payment every month, but your equity will quickly accumulate.

RayAmerica,

>>Debt is a scam perpetrated on the working class in order to make them slaves to their debt and employment.

Can't disagree with that, but the problem is that RayAmerica just does not understand that the libertarians and the republicans are NOT the friends of the working class. This is where the major disconnect is.

If Ray was thinking straight, he would understand that Obama is working hard on saving he working class, through Financial Reform and by prodding SEC into suing Goldman Sachs.

Meanwhile, the Republicans are wrapping themselves in the flag of free market fundamentalism and trying to PREVENT financial regulation, while PRETENDING to be the friend of the working class.

The main problem is that there is a large portion of the working class that believes in the Republican propaganda, which they have been spoon-fed ever since they were born.

justme

First, I'm neither a Republican or a Libertarian. Second, I find it pretty funny that you think the Democrats are not tied up with big corporations, banks, Wall Street, etc. To illustrate that point: the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act was a bi-partisan effort fueled by over $150 million in lobbyist money between 1997-98 alone. Glass-Steagall was passed during the Depression in order to control risky speculation and conflicts of interest by banks and insurance companies, etc. Without the repeal of this act, the subprime mortgage crisis would not have been possible. Neither would the zero down, interest only, etc. high risk Alt-A loans been possible. By the way, it was a Democrat President by the name of Bill Clinton that signed it into law. Yep, the same Democratic President that signed NAFTA into law, another piece of legislation that has done much to help BIG corporations to the detriment of the American worker. So don't give me this garbage that it's only the GOP, the Dems are just as bad. On another note: GE didn’t pay one dime in income taxes. They just so happen to be one of Obama’s biggest supporters. LOL

justme says

RayAmerica,
>>Debt is a scam perpetrated on the working class in order to make them slaves to their debt and employment.
Can’t disagree with that, but the problem is that RayAmerica just does not understand that the libertarians and the republicans are NOT the friends of the working class. This is where the major disconnect is.
If Ray was thinking straight, he would understand that Obama is working hard on saving he working class, through Financial Reform and by prodding SEC into suing Goldman Sachs.
Meanwhile, the Republicans are wrapping themselves in the flag of free market fundamentalism and trying to PREVENT financial regulation, while PRETENDING to be the friend of the working class.
The main problem is that there is a large portion of the working class that believes in the Republican propaganda, which they have been spoon-fed ever since they were born.

The only value the working class has for politicos is VOTES and TAXES. The SEC suing Goldman does nothing to save the working class. It is not a matter of Repub vs Dem it is more of a matter of power, prestige, and how to get the most out of other people's money . Dems and Repubs alike are in on it. Even unions stick it to the workers with their own form of taxes called "dues".

You got it marko ... you hit the proverbial nail on the head.

>>The only value the working class has for politicos is VOTES and TAXES.

This is what the very same libertarians and republicans want you to believe.

RayAmerica,

>>Second, I find it pretty funny that you think the Democrats are not tied up with big corporations, banks, Wall Street, etc

Now you are putting words in my mouth. I suppose arguing with what I actually said is too difficult for you.

justme says

RayAmerica,
>>Second, I find it pretty funny that you think the Democrats are not tied up with big corporations, banks, Wall Street, etc
Now you are putting words in my mouth. I suppose arguing with what I actually said is too difficult for you.

Sorry for "putting word in your mouth," but I did casually notice that you mentioned only GOPers and Libertarians and not the Democrats. LOL

justme says

>>The only value the working class has for politicos is VOTES and TAXES.
This is what the very same libertarians and republicans want you to believe.

The very same ones ? Really the very same ones ? I guess it is a good thing they want me to believe what I believe. Sounds free. I wouldnt want a politician to try and suppress what I believe just because I believe it. That would be more difficult

I really don't get all the hate and venom for Obama. Don't get me wrong, I didn't vote for him, but the way I see it, he's done nothing extraordinary. Any other guy/woman sitting at his place (except maybe Ron Paul... but hey, he never had a chance because he's so out there) would be running these futile rework programs. its a case of "damned if you do, and damned if you don't" IF you don't do anything, you'd be skewered for not doing anything about the common folk, but for the program to make any impact, its going to be way too costly and bankupt the country. So.. you just make a token gesture, that way you look like you tried but the mortgage companies didn't want to play along. Not unexpected.

Serpentor says

really don’t get all the hate and venom for Obama.

And yet, as evidenced by a few angry posters here, it's alive and well. I think that anger directed at the president alleviates them from accepting responsibility for their own lives. I'm not saying that to be mean, although I'm sure they'll take it that way. Every party I go to always has some pissed off guy ranting about the president, with an embarrassed wife or girlfriend standing nearby.

elliemae says

And yet, as evidenced by a few angry posters here, it’s alive and well.

Very funny statement coming from one of the angriest posters in this forum. All you ever read in her posts is hate and anger for anything that even remotely sounds conservative. I guess it's ok to hate as long as you are a leftie hating a rightie.

I hate all haters.

RayAmerica says

elliemae says

And yet, as evidenced by a few angry posters here, it’s alive and well.

Very funny statement coming from one of the angriest posters in this forum. All you ever read in her posts is hate and anger for anything that even remotely sounds conservative. I guess it’s ok to hate as long as you are a leftie hating a rightie.

Did you eat angry-o's this morning? I'm not hateful, but I am observant. And I don't appreciate being attacked constantly. I'd sure appreciate it if you would stop.

Back to rayray's original post:
a href="/post/29052#comment-675638">rayray says

Treasury is “very close” to announcing more changes to HAMP to help borrowers who are unemployed and who owe more on their mortgage than their homes are worth, Allison told reporters after the hearing.

“It’s not going to mean that all underwater mortgages are suddenly in the program, but there may be, could be, a modest increase in eligibility.” Allison said.

Seriously, someone who is unemployed and upside-down has no business remaining in a house that they can't afford. Perhaps when they get a job it'll be different.

Instead of figuring that the loan mod programs are failing, maybe it's the market working. I'm tired of people claiming that they were victimized because they bought toxic loans for places they never should have bought in the first place, or cashed out and bought alot of crap they couldn't afford.

WHERE IS MY LOAN MODIFICATION BANK OF AMERICA?

If it walks like a piggy, talks like a piggy, by golly it’s a PIGGY!

BofA and it’s CEO Brian Moynihan reminds me of that song by John Lennon and George Harrison titled "Piggies" I invite you to listen to this song on youtube and see if it appropriately fits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTmeHM-Hojg&feature=related

Have you seen the little piggies
Crawling in the dirt
And for all the little piggies
Life is getting worse
Always having dirt to play around in.

Have you seen the bigger piggies
In their starched white shirts
You will find the bigger piggies
Stirring up the dirt
Always have clean shirts to play around in.

In their ties with all their backing
They don't care what goes on around
In their eyes there's something lacking
What they need's a damn good whacking.

Everywhere there's lots of piggies
Living piggy lives
You can see them out for dinner
With their piggy wives
Clutching forks and knives to eat their bacon.

John Wright vs. Bank of America Lawsuit at:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/prweb/20100323/bs_prweb/prweb3766544_1

When I filed my lawsuit against Bank of America, myself and United Law Group thought of the many others out there in the same situation. It was then that we decided to educate the public on what these piggy banks are doing, as well as unite us all together as one voice. Please help me turn this David vs. Goliath modification process, into a Goliath vs. Goliath.

Please stand with me and United Law Group and send an email to Bank of America that states that we will no longer tolerate their potentially illegal, fraudulent, irregular and abusive business methods.

Divided we might have fell America, but united we must stand!

Please send your email directly to Bank of America and include the following:

1. Your name
2. Your complaint concerning your experience with Bank of America.
3. Please end your email “I support John Wright vs. BofA Lawsuit!”
4. Please send a copy of your email to johns-wright@hotmail.com
5. Please send your email to both BofA link below and the CEO email

BofA Linked Email:
https://www3.bankofamerica.com/contact/?lob=general&contact_returnto=&state=VA

CEO Brian Moynihan:
brian.t.moynihan@bankofamerica.com

Time has proven the loan mod program has failed miserably. Foreclosures continue to rise while the banksters refuse to loan out money that the Federal government has given them. Further proof of the fact that the Government bailout was nothing other than to help the banks' balance sheets.

Ray There is a lot to be angry about these days. But please try and see through it and direct that anger a little better. Your "Obama is the problem slant" is getting old. would you please start looking at the whole system as the problem. Obama is just a cog in the wheel. you can't get over the anger until you see the real truth
and that is...........
Nothing can stop this train, nothing. it just math, it's numbers and no matter who's in charge ,or what they do or say, nothing will change this untill the reset. "The do over." some call it revolution.

the loan mods are just cover
welcome to the poor house
I'm starting to like it here

elliemae says

RayAmerica says

elliemae says

And yet, as evidenced by a few angry posters here, it’s alive and well.

Very funny statement coming from one of the angriest posters in this forum. All you ever read in her posts is hate and anger for anything that even remotely sounds conservative. I guess it’s ok to hate as long as you are a leftie hating a rightie.

Did you eat angry-o’s this morning? I’m not hateful, but I am observant. And I don’t appreciate being attacked constantly. I’d sure appreciate it if you would stop.

",, angry-o's,,,, " NOW THAT WAS FUNNY!!

RayAmerica says

Time has proven the loan mod program has failed miserably. Foreclosures continue to rise while the banksters refuse to loan out money that the Federal government has given them. Further proof of the fact that the Government bailout was nothing other than to help the banks’ balance sheets.

Failed? I'm confused. I thought you were against government intervention. Lenders are pretty much doing what they would have done if there were no loan mod program: not modifying loans, & foreclosing.

The loan mod program gave small kickbacks to banks to forgive debt. Are you saying it would have been a success if more taxpayer money was spent to "keep people in their homes?"

By the way, TARP "bailout" was under George W. Bush, not Obama. And the money was not "given" to them, it was loaned to them.

You can call me cynical too, but I believe the real purpose of all mortgage "help" is to trap people in debt so that they are forced to work.

Nick Naylor, in Thank You For Smoking: "99% of everything done in the world, good or bad, is done to pay a mortgage. Perhaps the world would be a better place if everyone rented."

From The Politics of Life by Craig Crawford: "Beware the boss who encourages you to buy a house or new car. Mortgages and car payments enslave you to the paycheck that your boss controls."

You can call me cynical too, but I believe the real purpose of all mortgage “help” is to trap people in debt so that they are forced to work.
Nick Naylor, in Thank You For Smoking: “99% of everything done in the world, good or bad, is done to pay a mortgage. Perhaps the world would be a better place if everyone rented.”
From The Politics of Life by Craig Crawford: “Beware the boss who encourages you to buy a house or new car. Mortgages and car payments enslave you to the paycheck that your boss controls.”

There is nothing cynical about the truth. "The borrower is slave to the lender" has always been true and always will be. A person that is heavily in debt cannot readily quit a job, whereas a person that is debt free (along with ample savings) can. The best thing, IMO, a person can do to advance his or her own personal financial freedom is to become debt free. I have believed for a long time that the opinion makers of our modern society have conspired, to their benefit, to get us heavily into debt so that they can ultimately have control over our lives. Debt accomplishes that, along with making them incredibily rich in the process.

The "truth" of that matter is that Obama's Loan Modification program, along with his Job Stimulus, etc. has failed. Nearly every credible economist now admits that the Homebuyer's Tax Credit is a failure as well, and are now predicting a "double dip recession." IMO, we never left the first one, thanks to Obama’s miserable failures and leadership. His dragging his feet on the oil spill is furthering the destruction of this economy. The list goes on and on.

shrekgrinch says

I mean, this Messiah Clown makes Jimmy Carter look good by comparison. He even makes the Bushies look like paragons of competent government, too.

I'm forced to agree. Naming the incompetents Carter & Bush illustrates you are not a partisan party hack, but accurately recognize that BOTH parties are the problem, not the solution. Unfortunately, we keep going from bad to worse. Bush was a very bad president, in particular, in his second term. When it comes to bad, Obama is Bush on steroids. The question is: how much more can America take from these political hacks that continue to ruin our country?

Further proof these government programs are NOT helping the housing crisis:

http://www.businessinsider.com/keith-jurow-us-housing-markets-continuing-to-weaken-2010-6?source=patrick.net

RayAmerica is not furthering ANY sort of discourse.

Does this forum have an IGNORE function?

Barry is only the talking head, but I feel liberalism (or whatever you would rather call the leftist/socialist/communist/progressive stuff) is the cause of our political problems. Low morals is the cause of all other problems. Right or Left, it is a lack of morals that brings grief.

Vicente says

RayAmerica is not furthering ANY sort of discourse.
Does this forum have an IGNORE function?

Too bad we can't vote to ban the troll.

Vicente says

RayAmerica is not furthering ANY sort of discourse.
Does this forum have an IGNORE function?

I guess the only discourse you're interested in is the type that agrees with you. I posted a link to an account stating that housing continues to weaken, in spite of Obama's rescue programs. If you were honest, you'd respond to that. Instead, you've lowered yourself to the childish level of ellie "I never, ever insult anyone" mae. I would have expected a little more out of you, not much more, but a little.

Before being Obama's Rescue Program, it was Bush's Rescue Program.

Before that we have entire generations of pushing this view of housing as something to be facilitated without question.

Your diatribes about ObamaCommies, do not help your cause one bit. They only cement the fact you are not interested in discourse on the ISSUE, but rather in talking points to use as weapons against Obama.

this website would be dead if it wasn't for trolls like RayAmerica aka OTS.... I miss bearmarket

Serpentor says

this website would be dead if it wasn’t for trolls like RayAmerica aka OTS…. I miss bearmarket

I don't think so - there might be some actual conversations instead of rayray's trolling. I miss poopybear's telling us all that oil city PA is the place to live, while never actually having had a job. wonder how his garden's growing?

Patrick, how about we have a vote to ban anyone who is detrimental to the forum... I'm not sure how OTS is banned... but considering OTS = RayAmerica, this should be automatic

Serpentor says

Patrick, how about we have a vote to ban anyone who is detrimental to the forum… I’m not sure how OTS is banned… but considering OTS = RayAmerica, this should be automatic

Who is "OTS?" Please explain exactly how I am "detrimental to the forum."

shrekgrinch says

Sorry, but that particular side-issue is: There are ObamaCommies who worship every turd the Messiah craps out of his butt like it is golden fertilizer and do so so much that they can’t reason any more….so much in fact, that they have to still blame Bush for everything.
Like now, when you made up total BS about how Obama’s Failed Loan Modification Plan was actually Bush’s, when in fact that isn’t true at all? The idea for even implementing such a plan wasn’t even a glint in a Beltway Whore before Bush was long out of office.

Yes bringing TURDS into the discussion furthers civil discourse!

Let's flash back shall we?

"July 30, 2008, President Bush signed into law, The Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008 (H.R. 3221). It established the Home Ownership Preservation Entity Fund to fund the HOPE (Home Ownership Preservation Entity) for Homeowners Program."

So are you ready to admit you were wrong? That maybe the idea of this sort of program, was a "glint in the eye" during some prior administration?

There've been half a dozen such little piecemeal "finger in the oil well" attempts to prop up the housing industry. The problem I have with YOU PEOPLE is you make it like your stereotypical "ObamaCommies" just invented the idea, when plainly they didn't. Oh yeah, let's not forget the MHA (Making Homes Affordable) program which was last year. The stupidity of subsidizing housing has been going on my entire life, and probably yours. Before we were attempting to rescue housing, we of course spent many decades enshrining it as a favored status in a multitude of ways, turning it into a quasi-religion. Did Clinton do this? Yeah. Did Bush Senior add to it? Yeah. Did Reagan? Yeah. Did Carter?

All these "OBAMA FAILS AGAIN!" threads prove is who watches Fox News and how short their memory is. My point was not blame-shifting entirely to Bush the Lesser, my point was that the myopic world-view of certain posters is PRECISELY blame-shifting all onto one person, their enemy of the day.

shrekgrinch says

Sorry, but NONE of those past presidents PROMISED to SAVE HOUSING like Obama and his ObamaCommie reality-impaired-cultists kept (and STILL keep) ranting.

Easily proved wrong in public statements, HOPE was in fact one of the failed attempts which promised and did not deliver. Amazingly I can do this without reference to bodily functions or calling people idiots, ObamaCommies etc.

“On housing, we must trust Americans with the responsibility of homeownership and empower them to weather turbulent times in the housing market. My administration brought together the HOPE NOW Alliance, which is helping many struggling homeowners avoid foreclosure. And Congress can help even more. Tonight I ask you to pass legislation to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, modernize the Federal Housing Administration, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to help homeowners refinance their mortgages. These are difficult times for many American families, and by taking these steps, we can help more of them keep their homes.”

–George W. Bush, 2008 SOTU

shrekgrinch says

Obama’s own qualifiers for success for us to judge him on

Gotta judge him on the cards he was dealt vs. what McCain's team -- "Mr Mental Recession / Nation of Whiners" would have done and not just where we are now but where else we could have gone.THe

Obama took over the situation similar to where the F-16 was here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alo_XWCqNUQ#t=44s

The major errors were committed 2002-2007, allowing household and the national debts to double in that timeframe. Good for short-term prosperity and wealth flows to stronger hands, but bad for long-term stability, since we are in a balance-sheet recession and there is no getting out of that but through wholesale liquidation, preferably global war.